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Not left. not right. Forward.

ctcseb

Valles Marineris
Gold Member
Nov 24, 2015
1,050
3,906
113
Michigan
New political party got a huge boost and is now third largest party in the U.S. after Forward party (former Democrats) merges with Renew America (former Republicans) and Serve America (centrists).

First priority is democracy reform and implementation of ranked choice voting / open primaries to ensure candidates better represent their electorate, instead of the 10% that are the most extreme on either side. Also pushing for term limits on politicians.

Instead of specific policies/ ideology, currently pushing for a solution design framework where extreme views are ignored and reasonable Americans find common ground and take action now. Strong focus on compromise and collaboration.

I am looking into it as the GOP / Trump / Marjorie Taylor Greene / Lauren Boebert world has left me behind.

 
May I ask what policies of the GOP you feel have left you behind? I just don't tend to allow myself to be influenced by members of Congress who aren't in my district and do not drive mainstream policy. I get the whole Trump thing but he's not really a Republican. He's his own entity and when he's gone, that will fade. So we're ultimately left with policies and I was just curious which you dislike so much. One of Trump's best contributions is he got rid of the neocons and they have moved to things like this. Did you really like the neocon mindset? I didn't. Very big government, prone to corruption, high inefficiency, tax disparities, authoritarian, military adventures all over the globe, etc. Not very conservative in any way.
 
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FWIW, I'll start by saying I enjoy reading your posts, they are usually well thought out, you seem like a very reasonable person.

Having said that, I feel like you are creating an arbitrary delineation between Trump and the GOP. Trump IS the GOP right now. When the Republican party censures Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for being part of the Jan 6th Committee, this shows you the influence of Trump. And even when Trump leaves, Trumpism is remaining. Trump's success is partly based on a very simple concept: life is a zero sum game, if you aren't winning you are losing. So, the focus has become to create a us. vs. them and "winning" at all costs. This includes demonization, polarization, alternate facts, lies, and justification for unethical behavior. A large portion of the Republican party has embraced the strategy (hence the same playbook of alleging cheating at local election level, etc.). So, before we even get to the policy level, the root mindset of the Republican party is demonization of fellow Americans. You can hide that hatred behind all the "freedom" BS you want, but that is the core principle, others are the enemy. And while you are pointing at big government (which I don't want) as a big threat, we have Boebert that wants to eliminate the separation between Church and State and MTG that wants the GOP to be a "Christian nationalist" party (reminds me of "Hitler privately assured General Gerhard Engel in 1941 that "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so."[16] In a speech in the early years of his rule, Hitler declared himself "Not a Catholic, but a German Christian").

In short, the foundation of the party is demonizing people and lying about reality.

Google REDMAP to see what Republicans have been doing to undermine democracy with weaponized and professionalized gerrymandering. The GOP is turning a blind eye to Jan 6. And your point seems to be let's forget about all this as long as their policies as still beneficial to you. Ironic isn't it? The party of values and integrity is willing to sell their soul for political gains. Well, some of us aren't okay with this and are looking for a political home where facts and reason matter. Which means accepting the reality that a lot of people don't always agree and you need to find common ground, instead of just vilifying them. At the end of the day, we live in the same society and community.
 
So much to unpack here. I'll try taking it as you wrote it and offer a counter perspective that hopefully you will consider since you do seem to want to be open-minded about things.

Having said that, I feel like you are creating an arbitrary delineation between Trump and the GOP. Trump IS the GOP right now.

This is demonstrably false considering recent polling data and also with respect to election results.


When the Republican party censures Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for being part of the Jan 6th Committee, this shows you the influence of Trump.

Those two individuals are clowns. They have participated in a sham designed to distract from very important issues we face today. For almost ALL of Congressional history, when a committee is formed there would be members nominated by each party to the committee. In this case (the only one I can remember) the Democrats would not allow the Republicans to select members to participate. Instead they picked who they wanted to call it "bi-partisan" and then went forward with a process designed to reach a pre-determined outcome. It's not a discovery process at all. It is entirely political. Both of those people participating have tainted what should be a fair process. As I always say, unless someone is afraid of the truth, there is no harm in searching for it. If your view point is the correct one; debate, scrutiny and analysis will only serve to bolster that. Never mind the reality that one of the leaders of this commission voted against certifying the 2016 election results...

Trump's success is partly based on a very simple concept: life is a zero sum game, if you aren't winning you are losing. So, the focus has become to create a us. vs. them and "winning" at all costs. This includes demonization, polarization, alternate facts, lies, and justification for unethical behavior. A large portion of the Republican party has embraced the strategy (hence the same playbook of alleging cheating at local election level, etc.). So, before we even get to the policy level, the root mindset of the Republican party is demonization of fellow Americans. You can hide that hatred behind all the "freedom" BS you want, but that is the core principle, others are the enemy.

Please show me where both sides don't engage in this behavior and not on equal terms because the bulk of the media doesn't parrot everything the right says to sway reality. The Democrats and the Media speak with one voice most of the time. Just look at what's going on now. Democrats say Trump and his ilk on the right are a threat to democracy in America. That if these people get power we could lose everything. Right?

Now let's go to the map and examine reality. All across the country they are running ads and turning out to vote for these extreme candidates to try and fix the elections in their favor. Here's a video about this very subject from recent days:


Now I ask you, if these people are such a threat and Democrats opine ad nauseum that they want a return to the GOP of old, why are they supporting these candidates? Talk about a zero sum game where winning is all that matters even at the expense of what is best for our country and the truth. How could any reasonable person defend such actions?

One more thing, both sides spew hatred all around us. It's everywhere. Trying to point the finger at Republicans isn't fair at all. You seem to have tilted every point you make in one direction and I don't understand that.

In the same way during football season I am more concerned about Clemson playing its best than I am what our opponents do, I follow my side of the political sphere very closely.

For example, you can listen to Bobert's speech here to maybe two or three dozen people.



There's a lot of good in things she says but she just can't help herself from running way off the tracks repeatedly. Marjorie Taylor Green is similar in many ways. God doesn't call us to be nationalists. This is not supposed to be a Christian nation. However, I do agree with President Washington when he said:

"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked: Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice ? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.

It is substantially true that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. The rule, indeed, extends with more or less force to every species of free government. Who that is a sincere friend to it can look with indifference upon attempts to shake the foundation of the fabric?"

I believe this to be true, but it comes with warnings as in all cases. Moderation is an imperative because as we become more and more rigorous in the pursuit of our ideals, we can stray very easily into extremism. At this time in our nation, we see that on display with both sides. The only way this ends is by a universal condemnation of the rhetoric we see on display from all parties including the media. There is no good guy here. For those on my side, I would suggest that Christ was clear in His efforts to NOT wade into politics. He sought to change the world but not through the use of political power or control over others. Instead, He appealed to our souls and showed us how to nourish them through service and love toward others.

Bobert and Green have no real power. They do, however, represent a very angry and very dangerous part of the right in this country. Just as AOC and the rest of the squad represent an equally angry and dangerous part of the left in this country. In your post, you went all in on condemnation of your fears about the far right with no mention of the left. Given that the left is far more powerful because of institutional control at this time, we need to at least pay equal attention to each of these dangerous elements.

Google REDMAP to see what Republicans have been doing to undermine democracy with weaponized and professionalized gerrymandering.

You're serious with this?

Maryland_Congressional_Map_2012.png


illinois-congressional-districts-2016.png





The GOP is turning a blind eye to Jan 6. And your point seems to be let's forget about all this as long as their policies as still beneficial to you. Ironic isn't it?

I found January 6th to be abhorrent. It was a riot that got completely out of control. It was not an insurrection. It was far more insignificant than the riots of the summer of 2020 but we just brushed that under the carpet. Many lives were destroyed during that time but no one really cares.
We are strange how we politically filter everything that goes on. Kill 19 children and teacher in a school and it's a national outrage. But 53 people die in the trailer of a truck and there's no lasting outrage to do anything.


Back to 1/6. It was a riot and the attempts to make it more are insane. Let me ask you this, if you were planning an insurrection to take over the United States government, wouldn't you go in armed? Wouldn't you have a plan to not stop until you have completely dismembered the current power apparatus? And wouldn't you go in looking a little more like a soldier on a mission than a member of the Water Buffaloes from "The Flintstones?"

water_buffalo_hat.jpg


The party of values and integrity is willing to sell their soul for political gains. Well, some of us aren't okay with this and are looking for a political home where facts and reason matter. Which means accepting the reality that a lot of people don't always agree and you need to find common ground, instead of just vilifying them. At the end of the day, we live in the same society and community.

This is such an important section of your post but perhaps not for reasons you intended. Only you can answer that. I too believe we have engaged in the practice of "by any means necessary" to gain political power. But I ask you who began the process of centralization of our government and the dangerous power struggle that has ensued? Hint: It isn't the GOP.

That's why we need a set of overriding standards that apply to both sides. It's why the power of the free press is so vital to the health of our nation. The loss of our media has been devastating. Every medium we have now in terms of reporting of the news is slanted one way or the other. There's no curiosity or pursuit of truth. There is no understanding that the legitimacy of our institutions and the place they hold in society is dependent upon functioning in the light of day with total transparency. There have to be guardrails. They must be moral boundaries. We have completely abandoned all of this. Until we start restoring these things, it will be a battle between angry extremes. A center left party won't solve this problem. For better or for worse, this is a two party country. We need to start by restoring the place of the two parties.

JFK is one of the most celebrated Democrat presidents. Here is his platform from 1960. Tell me how that compares to today's Democrat Party? It's a stunning difference.


Likewise, compare today's Republican party to the platform of one of its great leaders in Ronald Reagan.


These leaders are cited all the time but how much are we really adhering to the traditional viewpoints of each party? How can we do better?

NOTE: The 1960 platform was from a time of racial segregation. In no way do I advocate any views to that effect but it also must be noted that how we handled integration was egregious and robbed black Americans of the vast majority of their hard earned wealth and set our nation back generations.

This is already too long. We can pick up more as we discuss if you see fit to.
 
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So much to unpack here. I'll try taking it as you wrote it and offer a counter perspective that hopefully you will consider since you do seem to want to be open-minded about things.



This is demonstrably false considering recent polling data and also with respect to election results.




Those two individuals are clowns. They have participated in a sham designed to distract from very important issues we face today. For almost ALL of Congressional history, when a committee is formed there would be members nominated by each party to the committee. In this case (the only one I can remember) the Democrats would not allow the Republicans to select members to participate. Instead they picked who they wanted to call it "bi-partisan" and then went forward with a process designed to reach a pre-determined outcome. It's not a discovery process at all. It is entirely political. Both of those people participating have tainted what should be a fair process. As I always say, unless someone is afraid of the truth, there is no harm in searching for it. If your view point is the correct one; debate, scrutiny and analysis will only serve to bolster that. Never mind the reality that one of the leaders of this commission voted against certifying the 2016 election results...



Please show me where both sides don't engage in this behavior and not on equal terms because the bulk of the media doesn't parrot everything the right says to sway reality. The Democrats and the Media speak with one voice most of the time. Just look at what's going on now. Democrats say Trump and his ilk on the right are a threat to democracy in America. That if these people get power we could lose everything. Right?

Now let's go to the map and examine reality. All across the country they are running ads and turning out to vote for these extreme candidates to try and fix the elections in their favor. Here's a video about this very subject from recent days:


Now I ask you, if these people are such a threat and Democrats opine ad nauseum that they want a return to the GOP of old, why are they supporting these candidates? Talk about a zero sum game where winning is all that matters even at the expense of what is best for our country and the truth. How could any reasonable person defend such actions?

One more thing, both sides spew hatred all around us. It's everywhere. Trying to point the finger at Republicans isn't fair at all. You seem to have tilted every point you make in one direction and I don't understand that.

In the same way during football season I am more concerned about Clemson playing its best than I am what our opponents do, I follow my side of the political sphere very closely.

For example, you can listen to Bobert's speech here to maybe two or three dozen people.



There's a lot of good in things she says but she just can't help herself from running way off the tracks repeatedly. Marjorie Taylor Green is similar in many ways. God doesn't call us to be nationalists. This is not supposed to be a Christian nation. However, I do agree with President Washington when he said:

"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked: Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice ? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.

It is substantially true that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. The rule, indeed, extends with more or less force to every species of free government. Who that is a sincere friend to it can look with indifference upon attempts to shake the foundation of the fabric?"

I believe this to be true, but it comes with warnings as in all cases. Moderation is an imperative because as we become more and more rigorous in the pursuit of our ideals, we can stray very easily into extremism. At this time in our nation, we see that on display with both sides. The only way this ends is by a universal condemnation of the rhetoric we see on display from all parties including the media. There is no good guy here. For those on my side, I would suggest that Christ was clear in His efforts to NOT wade into politics. He sought to change the world but not through the use of political power or control over others. Instead, He appealed to our souls and showed us how to nourish them through service and love toward others.

Bobert and Green have no real power. They do, however, represent a very angry and very dangerous part of the right in this country. Just as AOC and the rest of the squad represent an equally angry and dangerous part of the left in this country. In your post, you went all in on condemnation of your fears about the far right with no mention of the left. Given that the left is far more powerful because of institutional control at this time, we need to at least pay equal attention to each of these dangerous elements.



You're serious with this?

Maryland_Congressional_Map_2012.png


illinois-congressional-districts-2016.png







I found January 6th to be abhorrent. It was a riot that got completely out of control. It was not an insurrection. It was far more insignificant than the riots of the summer of 2020 but we just brushed that under the carpet. Many lives were destroyed during that time but no one really cares.
We are strange how we politically filter everything that goes on. Kill 19 children and teacher in a school and it's a national outrage. But 53 people die in the trailer of a truck and there's no lasting outrage to do anything.


Back to 1/6. It was a riot and the attempts to make it more are insane. Let me ask you this, if you were planning an insurrection to take over the United States government, wouldn't you go in armed? Wouldn't you have a plan to not stop until you have completely dismembered the current power apparatus? And wouldn't you go in looking a little more like a soldier on a mission than a member of the Water Buffaloes from "The Flintstones?"

water_buffalo_hat.jpg




This is such an important section of your post but perhaps not for reasons you intended. Only you can answer that. I too believe we have engaged in the practice of "by any means necessary" to gain political power. But I ask you who began the process of centralization of our government and the dangerous power struggle that has ensued? Hint: It isn't the GOP.

That's why we need a set of overriding standards that apply to both sides. It's why the power of the free press is so vital to the health of our nation. The loss of our media has been devastating. Every medium we have now in terms of reporting of the news is slanted one way or the other. There's no curiosity or pursuit of truth. There is no understanding that the legitimacy of our institutions and the place they hold in society is dependent upon functioning in the light of day with total transparency. There have to be guardrails. They must be moral boundaries. We have completely abandoned all of this. Until we start restoring these things, it will be a battle between angry extremes. A center left party won't solve this problem. For better or for worse, this is a two party country. We need to start by restoring the place of the two parties.

JFK is one of the most celebrated Democrat presidents. Here is his platform from 1960. Tell me how that compares to today's Democrat Party? It's a stunning difference.


Likewise, compare today's Republican party to the platform of one of its great leaders in Ronald Reagan.


These leaders are cited all the time but how much are we really adhering to the traditional viewpoints of each party? How can we do better?

NOTE: The 1960 platform was from a time of racial segregation. In no way do I advocate any views to that effect but it also must be noted that how we handled integration was egregious and robbed black Americans of the vast majority of their hard earned wealth and set our nation back generations.

This is already too long. We can pick up more as we discuss if you see fit to.
i keep reading this quote:
"It was far more insignificant than the riots of the summer of 2020"
but have still yet to understand what it actually means. are you saying congress should move to the WalMart that got robbed in my hometown? are those building of the same value? do they hold the same meaning for us?
 
i keep reading this quote:
"It was far more insignificant than the riots of the summer of 2020"
but have still yet to understand what it actually means. are you saying congress should move to the WalMart that got robbed in my hometown? are those building of the same value? do they hold the same meaning for us?

Many people died during those riots. Many businesses were burned down and I'm not talking about Walmart. Many lives were impacted in ways that will never be reparable. The January 6th riot did damage to offices in the Capitol building. One of the rioters was killed and that's about it. I guess for some people the Capitol building is some special place. But it's just a building. It certainly isn't America unless we want to say it's the worst of America because of what goes on in that building.
 
So much to unpack here. I'll try taking it as you wrote it and offer a counter perspective that hopefully you will consider since you do seem to want to be open-minded about things.



This is demonstrably false considering recent polling data and also with respect to election results.




Those two individuals are clowns. They have participated in a sham designed to distract from very important issues we face today. For almost ALL of Congressional history, when a committee is formed there would be members nominated by each party to the committee. In this case (the only one I can remember) the Democrats would not allow the Republicans to select members to participate. Instead they picked who they wanted to call it "bi-partisan" and then went forward with a process designed to reach a pre-determined outcome. It's not a discovery process at all. It is entirely political. Both of those people participating have tainted what should be a fair process. As I always say, unless someone is afraid of the truth, there is no harm in searching for it. If your view point is the correct one; debate, scrutiny and analysis will only serve to bolster that. Never mind the reality that one of the leaders of this commission voted against certifying the 2016 election results...



Please show me where both sides don't engage in this behavior and not on equal terms because the bulk of the media doesn't parrot everything the right says to sway reality. The Democrats and the Media speak with one voice most of the time. Just look at what's going on now. Democrats say Trump and his ilk on the right are a threat to democracy in America. That if these people get power we could lose everything. Right?

Now let's go to the map and examine reality. All across the country they are running ads and turning out to vote for these extreme candidates to try and fix the elections in their favor. Here's a video about this very subject from recent days:


Now I ask you, if these people are such a threat and Democrats opine ad nauseum that they want a return to the GOP of old, why are they supporting these candidates? Talk about a zero sum game where winning is all that matters even at the expense of what is best for our country and the truth. How could any reasonable person defend such actions?

One more thing, both sides spew hatred all around us. It's everywhere. Trying to point the finger at Republicans isn't fair at all. You seem to have tilted every point you make in one direction and I don't understand that.

In the same way during football season I am more concerned about Clemson playing its best than I am what our opponents do, I follow my side of the political sphere very closely.

For example, you can listen to Bobert's speech here to maybe two or three dozen people.



There's a lot of good in things she says but she just can't help herself from running way off the tracks repeatedly. Marjorie Taylor Green is similar in many ways. God doesn't call us to be nationalists. This is not supposed to be a Christian nation. However, I do agree with President Washington when he said:

"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked: Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice ? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.

It is substantially true that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. The rule, indeed, extends with more or less force to every species of free government. Who that is a sincere friend to it can look with indifference upon attempts to shake the foundation of the fabric?"

I believe this to be true, but it comes with warnings as in all cases. Moderation is an imperative because as we become more and more rigorous in the pursuit of our ideals, we can stray very easily into extremism. At this time in our nation, we see that on display with both sides. The only way this ends is by a universal condemnation of the rhetoric we see on display from all parties including the media. There is no good guy here. For those on my side, I would suggest that Christ was clear in His efforts to NOT wade into politics. He sought to change the world but not through the use of political power or control over others. Instead, He appealed to our souls and showed us how to nourish them through service and love toward others.

Bobert and Green have no real power. They do, however, represent a very angry and very dangerous part of the right in this country. Just as AOC and the rest of the squad represent an equally angry and dangerous part of the left in this country. In your post, you went all in on condemnation of your fears about the far right with no mention of the left. Given that the left is far more powerful because of institutional control at this time, we need to at least pay equal attention to each of these dangerous elements.



You're serious with this?

Maryland_Congressional_Map_2012.png


illinois-congressional-districts-2016.png







I found January 6th to be abhorrent. It was a riot that got completely out of control. It was not an insurrection. It was far more insignificant than the riots of the summer of 2020 but we just brushed that under the carpet. Many lives were destroyed during that time but no one really cares.
We are strange how we politically filter everything that goes on. Kill 19 children and teacher in a school and it's a national outrage. But 53 people die in the trailer of a truck and there's no lasting outrage to do anything.


Back to 1/6. It was a riot and the attempts to make it more are insane. Let me ask you this, if you were planning an insurrection to take over the United States government, wouldn't you go in armed? Wouldn't you have a plan to not stop until you have completely dismembered the current power apparatus? And wouldn't you go in looking a little more like a soldier on a mission than a member of the Water Buffaloes from "The Flintstones?"

water_buffalo_hat.jpg




This is such an important section of your post but perhaps not for reasons you intended. Only you can answer that. I too believe we have engaged in the practice of "by any means necessary" to gain political power. But I ask you who began the process of centralization of our government and the dangerous power struggle that has ensued? Hint: It isn't the GOP.

That's why we need a set of overriding standards that apply to both sides. It's why the power of the free press is so vital to the health of our nation. The loss of our media has been devastating. Every medium we have now in terms of reporting of the news is slanted one way or the other. There's no curiosity or pursuit of truth. There is no understanding that the legitimacy of our institutions and the place they hold in society is dependent upon functioning in the light of day with total transparency. There have to be guardrails. They must be moral boundaries. We have completely abandoned all of this. Until we start restoring these things, it will be a battle between angry extremes. A center left party won't solve this problem. For better or for worse, this is a two party country. We need to start by restoring the place of the two parties.

JFK is one of the most celebrated Democrat presidents. Here is his platform from 1960. Tell me how that compares to today's Democrat Party? It's a stunning difference.


Likewise, compare today's Republican party to the platform of one of its great leaders in Ronald Reagan.


These leaders are cited all the time but how much are we really adhering to the traditional viewpoints of each party? How can we do better?

NOTE: The 1960 platform was from a time of racial segregation. In no way do I advocate any views to that effect but it also must be noted that how we handled integration was egregious and robbed black Americans of the vast majority of their hard earned wealth and set our nation back generations.

This is already too long. We can pick up more as we discuss if you see fit to.
I appreciate the diligence in your response. I am out of town for the next 3 days but will respond when I get back. Thank you for the civil exchange of opinions.
 
i keep reading this quote:
"It was far more insignificant than the riots of the summer of 2020"
but have still yet to understand what it actually means. are you saying congress should move to the WalMart that got robbed in my hometown? are those building of the same value? do they hold the same meaning for us?
These people aren’t capable of weighing the difference between an attempt to overturn the result of an election for the most powerful job on Earth to a neighborhood Walmart getting looted in good faith. Tells you all you need to know
 
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These people aren’t capable of weighing the difference between an attempt to overturn the result of an election for the most powerful job on Earth to a neighborhood Walmart getting looted in good faith. Tells you all you need to know
It's also lost on them that the events at the Capitol that day were in response to a very dangerous lie - not something that "actually" happened.

The riots they equate to it were in response to multiple people in their community being killed by cops - something that "actually" happened. It doesn't excuse them but an attempt to overturn a free and fair election over a despicable lie, by the most powerful man on earth is not comparable.
Oddly, they just keep forgetting that point...
 
It's also lost on them that the events at the Capitol that day were in response to a very dangerous lie - not something that "actually" happened.

The riots they equate to it were in response to multiple people in their community being killed by cops - something that "actually" happened. It doesn't excuse them but an attempt to overturn a free and fair election over a despicable lie, by the most powerful man on earth is not comparable.
Oddly, they just keep forgetting that point...

These people aren’t capable of weighing the difference between an attempt to overturn the result of an election for the most powerful job on Earth to a neighborhood Walmart getting looted in good faith. Tells you all you need to know

Since it is obvious to any who read you couldn't give two craps about black lives or the impact of these riots, here's some help for the folks who just choose to ignore it.

2020 riots resulted in over $2 billion in damage by most estimates. There were 2,385 incidents of looting and 624 incidents of arson, including 97 police vehicles burned. More than 2,035 law enforcement officers were injured at the protests and riots during the time frame. There were 25 people killed, the overwhelming majority of those lost were black. In Minneapolis alone there were over 1500 businesses damaged by the riots and more than 300 were burned to the ground. This isn't about Walmart or something like this. These are minority owned businesses in struggling areas.

Here's an article about it when the media was bothering to cover this mess.


News flash: The 1/6 riots were wrong. Trump was wrong. He lost and then tried to stir up a huge shit storm saying he didn't lose. He was wrong and he should never be allowed to run for office again. His inaction during the riot was unforgiveable. The morons who stormed the Capitol may have thought they were trying to overturn an election but they weren't going to succeed. It was a fool's errand and most of those people are complete fools. That's it. It's not a complicated situation.





The above examples don't validate or justify what happened on 1/6. They are a logical conclusion to the fact that since 2000 we have been questioning the validity of our elections. Both sides have blood on their hands so to speak. It has to stop. I've been against it throughout. Please point me to your posts complaining about Dem actions in 2016. Would not surprise me if I searched your history I could find something to the effect that you didn't consider the 2016 election legitimate.

Funny how out of all I said, you guys latch on to that. Demonstrative of just how weak your arguments are to the rest. Not the first time for sure.
 
Last edited:
These people aren’t capable of weighing the difference between an attempt to overturn the result of an election for the most powerful job on Earth to a neighborhood Walmart getting looted in good faith. Tells you all you need to know
How do you loot a Walmart in good faith?
 
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