One Point of View Gaining a Lot of Steam…..

[scotchtiger]

And what do you call bailing businesses out over and over again while the working class is riddled with debt?

2 wrongs don’t make a right.

 

[scotchtiger]

The cost of college isn't what it was when you were going there, if you went. And hard work doesn't pay as much as earnings through the stock market.

You do realize what allowed college tuition to accelerate so rapidly right? Access to guaranteed federal student loans with no consideration for degree quality or earnings potential. And now you want the federal government to forgive debt that is a consequence of the problem they created.

And that money in the stock market had to come from somewhere. That is, someone earned it first. It wasn’t magic.

 

[scotchtiger]

My thing is that one year the interest rate on student loans was 5.1% and then 5.8% then jumped to 6.5% and the next year when finally called out for it--these companies that were profiting off of students put it back to 5.1%. There wasn't any market driven reason or any rationale for doing that beyond board and executive pay for those student loan companies (who make ridiculous profits despite what some of them try to say with their accounting practices).

But for generations all those loans were sitting at 1-2% interest rates. And the difference between paying 1.8% and 6.5% on a 40k loan is huge for a family trying to break into the middle class--own a home, pay for a care and childcare. Past generations were basically paying for inflation/cost of living adjustments--it wasn't bad at all.

I don't think we need to forgive all student loan debt but there are legit gripes of the current generation (or payers of the last ten-15 years) that see the past generations kinda punching down. Why is it a nonstarter that we can't get creative in how to provide some relief? No one complains that we give business people a tax write off for their meals or miles, right? That is govt welfare. Why not have student loans paid for the first ten years and then cut the interest rates on all of them to 1%? You still got to pay it back and the provider makes money but it provides some decent relief that would be economic stimulus.

No one wants to be a problem solver bc of the polarization in dem/rep politics IMO.

Interest rates should be the focus. We shouldn’t forgive any student debt, but perhaps there is a way to lessen the burden of the carrying costs.

But first, fix the loan system so debt is tied to degrees likely to yield earnings that don’t put people in these situations.

 

[TigerGrowls]

Man I love that solution - that's exactly where I am on it. I'm deeply uncomfortable with wiping out all college debt but there needs to be a middle ground. I have a friend from childhood that is still paying on his loan from 30 years ago and still owes over 100G. He'll clearly never pay that off but he's paid off the principal many times over. Folks like that should qualify for a write off but 10 years and then 1% would be the perfect compromise for most.

Having said that, I think community college should be free to learn a trade, but that's me.

I think the govt should quit guaranteeing college loans and make universities take the responsibility of whether loaning a prospective student money for a particular major is a good investment or not. The loan can also be on a semester by semester basis based on performance. Right now its like free money for the colleges whether the student graduates with a degree or not much less whether they can get a great job with it to pay the loan off.

I fully agree that a lot more young people need to learn trades than be in universities.

A short personal story, one of my kids went to college right out of HS with us paying a very good share of it and decided to party and was basically flunking out or near it. Wife and I quickly cut off the money. The kid moved out and partied for some more years and working odd jobs. By around 22 she figured out that money makes the world go round and then went back to college on her own dime with some grants she found and became an A student. Got her 4 year degree, then got her masters and is now near being a CPA. She also has not a cent of debt due to her performance and the fact that she didnt do all the extracurricular stuff and didnt live on campus and party. She worked while getting her studies completed. She did that on her own and had to earn it. We need a lot more of this going on.

A lot of these young people get huge college loans and use it for more than just tuition and related. It gets used for living expenses and party time. These young people need to live in reality where there is accountability and where they fully understand its not a free lunch. It is by design that you can file chapter 11, but still have pay student loans off. The whole current system is a scam in a real way. It need to be redesigned.

 

[clemben]

Envy is one of the seven deadly sins. Agree.

So is Greed.

And it is not envy to desire fairness and opportunity. The founders weren't envious of a King--they wanted fairness in how they were treated and the liberty of opportunity. Neither were those in the french revolution.

 

[clemben]

Interest rates should be the focus. We shouldn’t forgive any student debt, but perhaps there is a way to lessen the burden of the carrying costs.

But first, fix the loan system so debt is tied to degrees likely to yield earnings that don’t put people in these situations.

Agree with the first sentence.

With the second that isn't really a tenable situation overall--it leads to a glut of degrees in areas that would devalue them. Some things could be done but it would be difficult not to have unintended consequences. There are plenty of jobs that aren't paid well that are hugely important for the workforce like school teachers and vocations like that.

 

[scotchtiger]

Agree with the first sentence.

With the second that isn't really a tenable situation overall--it leads to a glut of degrees in areas that would devalue them. Some things could be done but it would be difficult not to have unintended consequences. There are plenty of jobs that aren't paid well that are hugely important for the workforce like school teachers and vocations like that.

I think you layer in some other elements as well to address that. Enhanced trade school focus, preferred treatment for certain foundational vocations like you mention.

What we don’t need is people getting $200K+ undergrads in art history and then whining about student loans…

And frankly, we need to go back to common sense like getting the education you can afford and planning/saving. Go to tech school for lower level classes. Go to instate public colleges. Parents should be funding 529s.

The federal government should always be thought of as a last resort, not the primary means by which you access something.

 

[dual_tiger]

No it ain't available to everyone. That's the point if you are a perfect person born pennyless in our country you cannot achieve higher education without taking in debt. That debt riddles you incapable of taking part in the stick market. Meanwhile businesses get to make money off that person's labor. They only have to offer health insurance by law but that's only if they work 30 hours a week.

I wrote algorithms that make that calculation.

Most everything you just said is wrong. The stock market is available to everyone even the poor. How much you are willing to sacrifice and invest is up to the individual. Also concerning education it is still possible if you work hard enough you can get a free ride in college based on your high school performance. My niece just finished her degree and didn’t pay one dime for it because she busted her butt and earned a full ride based on her grades/sat scores. There are also certain fields if you do your research that will pay for your school. Nursing is just one of them. Oh and by the way what if I told you there was a company just off the top of my head that offers pension and health insurance free for your entire family and you can work less than 30 hours a week to get it. 😮There are opportunities for the poor to succeed you just have to work/ look for them.