OT: Fed Employees impact

[BigPapaWhit]

I know there’s a not insignificant percentage of “federal office space” that’s actually rented trailers that have been in service, and sometimes in the same location without renovation, since the 1970’s and can’t meet the loose habitability requirements for temporary structures, so they’re unoccupied.

Or occupying a space that is not meeting 21st century operational needs. For example, I am working in a bldg built in the 80s that was outdated then. We lack sufficient outlets and ethernet drops for our labor force. Wireless is not a great option due to all the walls being concrete blocks. Last year, we had a ceiling installed water heater burst over the weekend. That was a fun mess to walk into on a Monday.

You also brought up a good point about global workforce. Many meetings are already happening virtually anyway. What is the difference between a remote zoom call and an office zoom call?

I wonder if this inertia for remote work is a byproduct of the manufacturing days, where you are watched or watching at all times?

 

[Jwilliamsiii]

Sounds like you need a better job

I have considered firing myself many times, but so far the gauntlet hasn't gotten me.

 

[ChicagoTiger85]

Where's the data for "more efficiently done in an office". For the two years my company was in lockdown before coming back. That wasn't played out.

I am not pretending anything should be a right. I am saying a lot of people are leaving companies where they were required to go back into the office (despite no evidence their work had suffered) and are now moving towards companies that are more progressive in that area. There is a lot of overhead saved by the company willing to do remote, there is less office drama, sexual harassments, etc. All that being said, the one area I think I've seen where there is a clear dropoff is training. I'm sure it varies from role to role and company to company.

I basically agree, although I think there are some advantages to working in an office and everybody being there at the same time. To be fair to him, there are lots of people who act like it's impossible and a violation if they're asked to go back to the office.

 

[scotchtiger]

Full time in office is a tough rule. I either WFH or travel. No office in my hometown. Most in my industry are doing hybrid work with 2-3 days in the office per week.

 

[UrHuckleberry]

I basically agree, although I think there are some advantages to working in an office and everybody being there at the same time. To be fair to him, there are lots of people who act like it's impossible and a violation if they're asked to go back to the office.

My absolute preference would be hybrid, 100%.

But will say, being able to hire remotely opens the door for better talent.

But in summary, my experience is my experience, and everyone else will say the same. Difference industries have different needs and requirements. And that is true inside and outside of the federal government.

 

[TheValley91]

I basically agree, although I think there are some advantages to working in an office and everybody being there at the same time. To be fair to him, there are lots of people who act like it's impossible and a violation if they're asked to go back to the office.

There might be advantages in a small way but none of these decisions are made based on that. Its financial due to long term leases and also poor management styles.

I.E. seeing bodies in an office makes one think work is being done.

 

[BigPapaWhit]

Less remote work but flexible schedule has been the greatest asset for me. I taught secondary ed for over ten years. One of my greatest stressors every day was getting to work especially as roads became more congested. If you think leaving one kid unattended is stressful imagine 25 - 30 hormonal teenagers possible unsupervised in your office because a tractor trailer jack knifed on the bridge that morning.

My life is much better that I have the flexibility to get my 40 hours. I can schedule a doctors appt, meet with the kid's guidance counselor, or workout before lunch, as long as I meet my suspenses, make my meetings, and get my 40. Another bonus, I no longer have to schedule leave around the school schedule, summer workouts, and football season. When I left teaching, I probably gave back 3 weeks of personal leave. Now I can visit places when they are not inundated with tourists.

 

[purenonsense]

I personally prefer having at least a few days in the office, and think the work culture is better if people are in the office together a little bit. It's also much more difficult to on-board somewhere new if you're never in the office and neither is anybody else.

That said, when so many people are at least working from home some of the time, I'm not sure it's great to require all federal employees to be in the office all of the time. Maybe they could've taken a little more time and crafted something that would've taken competition for employees and what actual needs there are into account.

i think the value of working from home all depends on the individual and the culture sought by the employer. I have 30 employees in my business. A couple work from home and nothing could be better for them or the firm. They are trustworthy and hardworking. They get so much done. Many of the others would do well from home too but i prefer team members to be around each other in the office.

 

[CU Alumnus]

Side story: When the Post and Courier decided to put someone in Clemson and I was interviewing for the job the top editor at the paper (a total hard ass, mostly in a good way) kept asking me if I was cut out to work from home. In fact, he straight up told me: "I don't think you're cut out to work from home."

It turned out I was. But I think his general concern/skepticism was well placed.

If someone works well while working from home it's great. But it can also be an inefficient mess if you hire someone who's not cut out for it.

When I was in the office I'd always get sidetracked by needless conversation. So a story that should've taken me an hour to write would take me two or three hours.

I think it all is just different strokes for different folks and it depends on what type of person you are and what's in your wheelhouse in terms of efficiency/focus.

Some folks are much more efficient in an office setting because of the structure and the "leaving work at work" so to speak.

That’s an issue I have working from home. Too many distractions.

Hell - I built my AR lower while on a conference call (I wasn’t an active participant - didn’t need to be).

Oddly though I’m very productive at the Greenville Honda dealer’s waiting room.

Weird.

 

[CU Alumnus]

There might be advantages in a small way but none of these decisions are made based on that. Its financial due to long term leases and also poor management styles.

I.E. seeing bodies in an office makes one think work is being done.

I’ve heard that theory.

Personally it sounds like one-size-fits-all bullshit to me.

 

[TheValley91]

I’ve heard that theory.

Personally it sounds like one-size-fits-all bullshit to me.

What exactly are you disagreeing with?

 

[purenonsense]

That’s an issue I have working from home. Too many distractions.

Hell - I built my AR lower while on a conference call (I wasn’t an active participant - didn’t need to be).

Oddly though I’m very productive at the Greenville Honda dealer’s waiting room.

Weird.

my only distraction when working from home is my wife. She just cant seem to help but try to start a detailed conversation about something else while i am working, only to raise a fuss when i miss some of what she is saying.

 

[eubyscott]

I haven't worked in an office since 2003.

Don’t you know you’re a lazy piece of crap and horrible worker? Did I do that right?

 

[eubyscott]

I worked full time "in office" for 40 consecutive years. Who teaches people to actually do the job? A mentor system and direct interaction with superiors was necessary to bring people up to speed. A complicated job like IRS investigator must take over a year to learn and become proficient. The "spreadsheet bitches" - project managers job is all about communicating and is going to evolve with AI.

I agree that working in an office as a young professional is incredibly beneficial. Much easier to ask co-workers or your boss questions.

However, I still think hybrid (for some jobs) is ideal. I have 5 young professionals that work under me and I am in regular contact with them whether we’re in the office or WFH. Heck 2 of them are in different offices so we just have to be disciplined and intentional about meeting together, providing continual feedback and asking questions.

One comment on in-office productivity is that people can still be incredibly inefficient in an office. Chit chatting, water cooler talk, web surfing, etc.

 

[eubyscott]

my only distraction when working from home is my wife. She just cant seem to help but try to start a detailed conversation about something else while i am working, only to raise a fuss when i miss some of what she is saying.

I generally only work from home if no one else is here. Other family members, whether it’s kids or spouses, can be distracting.

 

[CU Alumnus]

What exactly are you disagreeing with?

The idea that every company is making employees return to the office for the very same reason.

 

[CU Alumnus]

my only distraction when working from home is my wife. She just cant seem to help but try to start a detailed conversation about something else while i am working, only to raise a fuss when i miss some of what she is saying.

I tried to be productive but in my job (Quality Engineer/Supervisor) it was really hard. I need to be able to see the parts, issues, etc. Plus supervising shop floor employees.

We only did it because of COVID.

If I had an actual office at home it would be a little better (the challenges above remain). We have one (sorta) but it’s full of junk right now.

 

[spskillz]

Where's the data for "more efficiently done in an office". For the two years my company was in lockdown before coming back. That wasn't played out.

I am not pretending anything should be a right. I am saying a lot of people are leaving companies where they were required to go back into the office (despite no evidence their work had suffered) and are now moving towards companies that are more progressive in that area. There is a lot of overhead saved by the company willing to do remote, there is less office drama, sexual harassments, etc. All that being said, the one area I think I've seen where there is a clear dropoff is training. I'm sure it varies from role to role and company to company.

I don’t think it’s a matter of individuals as some can be just as, or more efficient, working outside of the office. However, when you’re talking about employees as a whole you are talking about a team, a team better functions working together in the same space.

Obviously with the team, you have strong members and weak members, it’s inevitable, and so making them work together to make up for the weak is what’s best for a business.

I understand that there are exceptions, and I think that moving forward there should always be some space for being able to do some work at home. With that said, I do know people that did things like work two jobs or otherwise occupy their time doing other stuff because maybe they work more quickly. That’s a great no but an employer will ever endorse this for obvious reasons.

 

[eubyscott]

I tried to be productive but in my job (Quality Engineer/Supervisor) it was really hard. I need to be able to see the parts, issues, etc. Plus supervising shop floor employees.

We only did it because of COVID.

If I had an actual office at home it would be a little better (the challenges above remain). We have one (sorta) but it’s full of junk right now.

I think having an actual office at home is very beneficial. I’ve worked from home in just a random bedroom and now we have a room dedicated as the office and it helps with the “separation”. When I’m in there, I’m working, don’t bother me.

It also sounds like your job would be hard to do WFH because of seeming to be in the manufacturing world. I’m in accounting/finance so a little more manageable.

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

technically speaking, you are correct , bud, although your numbers are a little outside the general accepted ranges of 20-25%. But you miss the big picture.
Many of the buildings, of which many are leased, are not suitable or functional for working spaces and not high tec/security ready. So, yes, many are vacant. My niece has worked from home for years in pensacola, because their feederal workplace offices are still damaged and unrepaired from past hurricanes and floods, which have happened a few times. . Part of bidens infrastructure plan was to refurbish federal workplaces so workers can return. Still, largely unfinished. But if they are ready for occupation, then, sure , return to the workplace. But the concern from most congressional members is not people workng from home, but the abundance of unused space with leasing costs still being paid. Seems to me like it would be more cost efficient to rid some of that space while keeping productive workers at home doing what they do best. Some waste and inefficiency here , but not nesessarily due to govt workers. Again, trump is creating a narrative implying 'lazy ass federal workers sitting at home eating little debbies all day'. Probably a bunch of DEI hires anyway. Either get you ass back to work or we will get you gone". Which appears very popular on its face. That is what populists do. .....We will see out it all shakes out.

Thanks for your thoughts , bud.

Hey bud, To in a small way to agree with you in that just because you have real estate capacity it may not be reasonable to say the available capacity fits the needs as to provide in house office cubicles may require hiring building maintenance and operations along with support facilities such as HVAC which may not be scalable to the number of people to work in house.

Working remote versus working in house needs to be judged by one criteria.

That is measurable output based on a metric of for example output units per hour.

I worked both in industries which it would be impossible to work from home and then the opposite where working from the office was impossible as most work was field work.

I can see both sides of the argument but for domestic reason I find working from a central office more to my belief that it is better, although in many cases the best method is working remote.

What is the best judge of what is best is if the person whose money is at risk calls the shots and monitors the output.

Bottom line is when you make loads of money working from home has no problem.

 

[scotchtiger]

But will say, being able to hire remotely opens the door for better talent.1

100%. Changed my career too. Happened to have a great gig locally, but now can lead a national organization from the comfort of the GOAT city in the US. Previously, I would have had to move to a larger metro area for something similar. And since my wife and I are both from here, have a great friend group, kids grandparents are all here, etc, relocation isn't an option we would consider.

 

[Chief_Dale14]

For anyone with a commute it can come close to half a day. I’ve got a 40 minute ride in and normal work starts over an hour before the doctor’s office opens, so if I manage to get the very first appointment of the day, spend 30 minutes at the doctor, grab a coffee or some drive through breakfast on my way in, and then commute in, I’m coming up on 3 hours after normal start time. For workers in metros where the traffic is far worse than exurban SC, it’s even more.

That's feasible. I have doctors close to my office and I have one close to my house so different appointments affect my schedule in different ways. My commute is much shorter but I have control over that because I selected where I live and where I work.

I think I was more confused by the scenario @ClemsonMax laid out of a doctor's appointment causing someone that works in an office to not be able to complete any work for the day. Seems like the worst case with the scenario you have, you'd would be able to get about half of a day's work done (or approximately 5-6 cases out of 10 cases).