OT: Tariff Economics Discussion
- Thread starter scott in nashville
- Start date
No rebuttal? I thought you wanted honest discussion? I THOUGHT you were my Huckleberry? Don't walk away when i bring up a good point. 😂
you just voted for another 80 year old who waddles around in a diaper so spare me the walking dead stuff. if he didn't spray his combover and paint his face orange every morning he'd look far worse than Biden.
so you seriously can't answer a question as to whether or not taking advice from Laura Loomer is a good move for the leader of the free world? you don't care about the United States national security council?
I'll answer. She is all over the target and yes he should take advice from his trusted advisors.
She outed a bunch of rats. Good riddance.
Nah, you say you want honest discussion, but still want to act like comparing Trump's 1.9 to Biden's average without acknowledging any of the factors that went into the two figures is all well and good. No thank you. I start to try to have discussion, but then remember what it's like. And don't have the mental energy today.
It is possible to say that Biden's policies made the pandemic inflation worse than it needed to be without trying to compare the two numbers. Trump passed covid bills too, got his name on the checks and everything. So he acknowledged the need for assistance during the pandemic and inflation was going to rise regardless after he was out of office. Your argument that it is worse due to BBB is fine. There's no way to know where the overall economy would be without that bill though. But my main thing is acting like covid didn't happen when comparing the two figures. Have a good day.
Don't remember TRUMP firing, or even threatening to fire anyone who got the "clot" shot, so just look at that.
There were certainly things that were different than Trump and Biden with regards to inflation.
Everyone knows about covid. I've never denied the difference. Everyone knew that the money printing would most likely lead to inflation.
But you can't honestly avoid attributing extra inflation to Biden for the following reasons.
1) Janet Yellen described the inflation upon Biden entering office as "Transitory"
2) When inflation was high, and if everyone knew the original money would cause inflation, how was every single democrat ok with passing a massive government spending bill? (The reason was because it funded their pet projects)
3) While the Biden admin took steps to lower inflation, the fact of the matter is that the last 3 inflation reports for his admin showed increasing inflation. It sure seemed like they tried their hardest to bring inflation down for the election, and when elected they would revert to their ways.
SO, no i have never ignore the differences. But you can't blame Covid for all of the inflation when you originally said it was transitory, had it level much higher than the 2% goal, and then have it rising at the end of your term.
I don't think i am being disingenuous at all. Ignoring the rising interest rates, high debt, rising inflation and pretending everything was going to be ok if maintained course ...... that is disingenuous.
Don't think that effected inflation either way.
At the end of the day, I am fine with people thinking his policies were inflationary overall and Trump could've done better. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But acting like Trump would've had things at 1.9 in a second term during a pandemic is disingenuous.
I am not saying Biden was great. I have never said Biden was great. I am saying the 1.9% is practically useless when doing a comparison.
STFU Hambone, at least I don't have your blistered orange lips.
Fair enough. And i am saying we have plenty of more evidence than just the 1.9%.
There is a plethora of evidence beyond the 1.9% comparison that it feels like you are just choosing to ignore because you have an easy cop out excuse in "covid".
And yes, i think inflation would have been much lower, not gotten as high, and come down faster under a competent president like Trump. I do agree with you it would have been higher than 1.9% though and that fighting inflation would not have happened in a silo. That is, other changes perhaps unpopular at the time, would have had to been made. Biden (his admin) did not have the will to make those unpopular changes and chose to let inflation take hold, costing them the election imo.
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Then all I'll say is that you'll get better discussion out of people if you leave our those type of "facts" etc. I won't say things like "Biden lowered inflation by 6% his last three years in office!" Because that would be silly and ignore a lot of things. It would somewhat invalidate the rest of what I said. That is all I'm saying.
Actually it's that I would have to read into what you're saying to see what the reality is because based on other postings, I don't trust a thing you say. You're going to compromise truth for political gain at every turn. And frankly, I am not interested enough to look into what you're talking about. Trump never makes the good call at first. His policies are often sanded down over time to reach something good.
I didn't vote FOR anyone in the last election. I voted against the political left finishing the job of destroying everything.
lol can you give me some examples of postings where i've lied?
you're droning on some echo chamber culture war BS about the "the political left finishing the job of destroying EVERYTHING" while accusing me of being partisan. take the plank out of your own hysterical eye and ask yourself why you voted for this bullshit and hopefully it's not so Riley Gaines could come in third place in the next swim meet that 99.999999999% of human history DGAF about anyway.
We are a massively corrupt massively bureaucratic society that needs to be stripped down to the studs which is our Constitutional foundation.
I know we have trade issues and I would work to negotiate better deals without publicly humiliating allies. We need to reduce spending dramatically. I would have worked to build enough credibility with a better economy to get around to talking about the hard stuff which is what we're going to do about our entitlement problem which is the source of so much of our debt.
The goal for Trump should be get prices down as much as possible. Spur growth by creating a great climate for investment. Deregulate where ever possible to stimulate the economy. Then get the hell out of the way.
In my dream world, we'd also abolish corporate taxes and THEN I would tariff all nations that use VATS to elevate the cost of goods coming into this country. Once the people know a president can set the table for the economy to explode, he/she will have the credibility and capital to push forward an agenda that will help fix the problems we have which are significant, systemic and will only worsen over time.
I could but I won't. I don't want to discuss that stuff anymore. It's a waste of time. You and I disagree on almost everything. I respect your right to think what you do. And whether or not you respect my right to view things I do is irrelevant. But I don't want to waste my time bashing skulls with an avowed partisan. I am not a partisan which is evidenced by my posts in this thread. I have a view on things which I adhere to and I could not care les about political parties.
Tariffs are the story. The drop in the 10-year yield is nice but if it brings a recession with it, it's not going to work out well for him.
Disagree.
They are purposefully trying to pushing rates lower because we have $20 trillion of debt to refinance. Every 1% rates lower is roughly equivalent to $$250-$350 Billion in annual interest payments.
If we don't get the budget under control inflation will continue. If inflation continues at the rate that it was, republicans will lose the next election. Inflation was the #1 issue in the election imo.
I understand what you're saying and I don't even completely disagree with your stance on that. All I'm saying is that politically if you bring a recession with all this you're going to be out of power. Then all this won't matter anymore and the spending will start right back up again. It's also a reality that you're saying all this in the midst of them passing another massively bloated spending bill.
Yes.
And I have donated money to a Dem running for office within the last five years.
Awesome... So if the goal is reducing the debt, explain the massive tax cut they are suggesting.
The goal is to not go bankrupt. We were on a path to bankrupcy.
I disagree with anyone saying to kick the can down the road longer. We need to rip this band aid off. We are addicted to debt.
I, for one, am so glad we are trying a different approach. I would rather this than to continue on the path we were on. The path we were on was a path of certain inflation and debt. At least we have an alternative path now.
You use cumshots in place of Blistex, so who are you to give me lifehacks? It might work for you. You're still chocking on ole Joe's penis while all the facts are coming out.
You're freaking pathetic. Joe could've started WW3, and you would say, that's OK, because his staff was running the country.
The problem is, HIS FVCKIN' staff and Dr. Jill were running the country (and you don't see there is a problem with that). That should never have happened in this country. Anyone who watched that stupid MF'er on tell-a-vision knew he wasn't up for the job. Everyone, except for you and your liberal bottom feeders. Your whole party is a bunch of liars.
Everyone who follows politics in your party (that might be the worst part-they vote for whoever has a D by their name) is a paid for liar. If there is no protest to something, you invent them.
What path is that? How exactly do you think this is going to improve things?
And I'd like to understand how you think passing a massive tax bill onto the American people isn't going to be more inflation? Do you think that people are just going to say and other countries well we'll just be good with taking less money? That's not going to happen man.
Lutnick talking about China is utterly ridiculous. They are a communist country with the state run economy and they're going to go bankrupt in the very near future when their population craters. How is that a recipe for success exactly? They also completely violate the human rights of their citizens to exploit them for slave labor to provide wealth to the state. How is that a good thing? Everyone knows they manipulate their currency in extraordinary ways that will eventually catch up with them. They also have a massive debt issue.
You just acknowledged the reason for everything going on. Americans are getting ripped off. Trump is making that catch up with them right now.
"Everyone knows they manipulate their currency in extraordinary ways that will eventually catch up with them"
You didn't answer my questions though. How exactly? What path are you talking about? Where do you think that path is going to end and how is it going to help us lower prices?
I am talking about the path of American exceptionalism. The path that acknowledges that we have the largest, deepest markets in the world.
I think it will be good to have other countries pay to access our market. When you go to ebay, you must pay a fee to access their market. When you trade a stock at the NYSE, you must pay a fee to access their market. Many other countries are charging us tariffs to access THEIR smaller markets.
This is not some wild new concept. It's in practice all around you.
The path forward involves refinancing our debt at affordable rates. Have you noticed the 10 year is down .8% since election day? Do you realize that saves us ~$300B annually? On a $2 trillion budget?
We were on an unsustainable path. We had rising inflation, rising interest rates, a $2 trillion deficit, and we were $37 trillion in debt. Valuations on the market reached levels so high, that Buffet was sitting on $350B in cash.
So yeah, i think major changes were necessary.
I think it will be good to have other countries pay to access our market. When you go to ebay, you must pay a fee to access their market. When you trade a stock at the NYSE, you must pay a fee to access their market. Many other countries are charging us tariffs to access THEIR smaller markets.
This is not some wild new concept. It's in practice all around you.
The path forward involves refinancing our debt at affordable rates. Have you noticed the 10 year is down .8% since election day? Do you realize that saves us ~$300B annually? On a $2 trillion budget?
We were on an unsustainable path. We had rising inflation, rising interest rates, a $2 trillion deficit, and we were $37 trillion in debt. Valuations on the market reached levels so high, that Buffet was sitting on $350B in cash.
So yeah, i think major changes were necessary.
Game theory this out with me.
You have two can manufacturers selling cars in America. CHINA and US.
CHINA sells a car for 10,000
US sells a car for 10,000
Trump puts tariff on China of 25%
China car costs $12,500
China raises prices. United States 1) Raises Prices to match or 2) Does not raise prices to keep competitive advantage.
You may say, well the Unites states will raise their prices. This would be correct until ......
More manufacturers locate into the US to avoid the Tariffs. Now US Manufacturer must compete with NEW US manufacturer and will lower price to $10,000.
Just a start of discussion. @Willence
You have two can manufacturers selling cars in America. CHINA and US.
CHINA sells a car for 10,000
US sells a car for 10,000
Trump puts tariff on China of 25%
China car costs $12,500
China raises prices. United States 1) Raises Prices to match or 2) Does not raise prices to keep competitive advantage.
You may say, well the Unites states will raise their prices. This would be correct until ......
More manufacturers locate into the US to avoid the Tariffs. Now US Manufacturer must compete with NEW US manufacturer and will lower price to $10,000.
Just a start of discussion. @Willence
I have to say it's heartbreaking to see how quickly the trumpies will abandon our Constitution and the idea of a free republic in favor of an omnipotent leader but they will follow anywhere. Which is why I've said all along the Trump is not a conservative and the folks who vote for him largely or not as well. They couldn't care less about the Constitution I suppose which is really sad to witness. Considering it is our founding principles that make this country great. The exceptionalism that you speak of comes from a constitution that is founded in the division and separation of power. It is founded in limited and very controlled government. What you want is a guy who can just come on and do whatever he wants. Trump might do a good job with this and things may work out. But you have now laid the groundwork for future presidents to just come in and declare an emergency and do whatever the hell they want to do. That is a catastrophic development for this country. The shortsightedness is breathtaking.
From your mouth to God's ears. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. That is an overly simplistic analogy that would never play out in reality. That's why having an access tariff for our market is ridiculous. It's going to blow up most likely. There is a narrow path where it could potentially work if he's willing to back off. But what he's going to do is spend all his capital on this and if it doesn't work then Republicans will be in the minority for a long time. And in the process the Democrats, who know next to nothing about economics, will totally destroy this country. It's a big gamble to take and not one that I voted for.
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