OT: Uvalde

[Willence]

As more and more details come out about this tragedy, it becomes more and more clear how incompetent our government agencies are on nearly every level. New laws won't help if we don't follow the ones we have in place already. So I would just say to the "do something" crowd, how about making the something we do actually following the laws we have on the books to deal with these situations? It's unbelievable how poorly all this was handled. If you haven't read about it, I would encourage everyone to do so. There are a lot of people who should be out of a job and in many cases, going to jail over what transpired here.

 

[clemsonfn8]

If the government wanted to help they would worry less about new pointless laws and worry more about addressing mental health and enforcing the laws that already are in place

 

[scartiger]

As more and more details come out about this tragedy, it becomes more and more clear how incompetent our government agencies are on nearly every level. New laws won't help if we don't follow the ones we have in place already. So I would just say to the "do something" crowd, how about making the something we do actually following the laws we have on the books to deal with these situations. It's unbelievable how poorly all this was handled. If you haven't read about it, I would encourage everyone to do so. There are a lot of people who should be out of a job and in many cases, going to jail over what transpired here.

I agree. Said they could have stop the SOB in less than 3 minutes.

 

[funkbott]

I hope you aren’t only just now realizing how incompetent the government is at pretty much all levels

 

[kingkyle1008]

The entire police force should be fired and put in front of a firing squad it’s criminal that they stood outside for 77 minutes with children dying it that room. No excuse at all

 

[clemsonfn8]

The entire police force should be fired and put in front of a firing squad it’s criminal that they stood outside for 77 minutes with children dying it that room. No excuse at all

Zero excuse. As a parent they would have had to shoot me to keep me out of that school.

 

[dbjork6317]

If the government wanted to help they would worry less about new pointless laws and worry more about addressing mental health and enforcing the laws that already are in place

How do you suggest the government address mental health, and how much of an increase in government spending would you deem acceptable in order to address it?

In Uvalde, for example, approximately 40% of the city’s budget goes towards the police force. Do you think a city like Uvalde should adress mental health through new spending, or would taking some of the money budgeted towards policing and moving it towards mental health be a better way to go?

 

[DClemsonTiger]

Cops in the US are essentially armed and financed like an actual military. Either that's all unnecessary, or the fact that it is necessary says that the civilian brandished armaments causing that need should be curtailed.

Apparently even with the massive budget this PD had, the cops were still too scared to save the lives of all these children. Of course with the vice grip police unions have on this country, there will be virtually no accountability for any failings.

 

[GoodWord28]

If the government wanted to help they would worry less about new pointless laws and worry more about addressing mental health and enforcing the laws that already are in place

Ageeed. We’ve gotta enact the red flag law nation wide. A lot of these shooter display telltale indications that are known by other folks that interact with them. Those folks should also be held accountable for not reporting it.

Its a no brainer. Bi-partisan. I feel like Americans agree on it. The swamp in DC are failing us all.


Re: Uvalde, there are some folks that need to be in jail right now. Pussies sitting there waiting for orders and or equipment while kids are being shot? Keeping parents from going inside to do the polices’ job? Sheesh. Breaks my heart.

 

[clemsonfn8]

How do you suggest the government address mental health, and how much of an increase in government spending would you deem acceptable in order to address it?

In Uvalde, for example, approximately 40% of the city’s budget goes towards the police force. Do you think a city like Uvalde should adress mental health through new spending, or would taking some of the money budgeted towards policing and moving it towards mental health be a better way to go?

With how the police responded they should all be fired. Reducing or defunding a police force is not the answer. What I would suggest for funding pertaining to mental health would be quit funding wars around the world that have nothing to do with us and we won’t change the outcome. Our last $40 billion in assistance to Ukraine would’ve helped in this area. On the flip side how would you improve this issue? More laws are not the answer. There are already background checks that are poorly enforced. I was an FFL for a while and legally (not recommended) if the FBI has not responded to a delay on a background check you can transfer the firearm after 3 business days. I don’t know any FFL’s that would do that but it’s still legal to do so. Again that’s a poorly enforced law. Banning standard “high” capacity magazines does nothing either. I can change a magazine pretty fast if I need to. Banning an Armalite Rifle does nothing to stop murder either. According to the FBI statistics...On average 300 people are murdered a year with a rifle. That’s the whole rifle category. Lever action, bolt action, single shot etc. According to the same statistics you are more likely to be killed with a club/hammer or hands/feet.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls

 

[mwboozer]

Ageeed. We’ve gotta enact the red flag law nation wide. A lot of these shooter display telltale indications that are known by other folks that interact with them. Those folks should also be held accountable for not reporting it.

Its a no brainer. Bi-partisan. I feel like Americans agree on it. The swamp in DC are failing us all.


Re: Uvalde, there are some folks that need to be in jail right now. Pussies sitting there waiting for orders and or equipment while kids are being shot? Keeping parents from going inside to do the polices’ job? Sheesh. Breaks my heart.

We have laws against pointing guns at people, much less murder. People that walk into a school and shoot 19 kids don’t typically follow laws. If someone is sick enough to do this, they are going to get their hands on a gun. Red flag, green flag, checkered flag, it doesn’t matter. More laws don’t stop folks that have no regard for the law.

 

[DClemsonTiger]

We have laws against pointing guns at people, much less murder. People that walk into a school and shoot 19 kids don’t typically follow laws. If someone is sick enough to do this, they are going to get their hands on a gun. Red flag, green flag, checkered flag, it doesn’t matter. More laws don’t stop folks that have no regard for the law.

I mean we also have laws against cocaine. People still do cocaine but it's definitely harder to get.

Don't most conservatives want to outlaw abortion? How does that logic follow? While we're at it, why have any laws if people that want to break them are just going to break them?

 

[MBRO]

Cops in the US are essentially armed and financed like an actual military. Either that's all unnecessary, or the fact that it is necessary says that the civilian brandished armaments causing that need should be curtailed.

Apparently even with the massive budget this PD had, the cops were still too scared to save the lives of all these children. Of course with the vice grip police unions have on this country, there will be virtually no accountability for any failings.

 

[UpstateTgrFan]

I just can’t believe there wasn’t one dude who said, “F this” and went in. I mean they didn’t even try the door.

 

[DClemsonTiger]

Ya isn't this insane?

 

[MBRO]

Ya isn't this insane?

It absolutely is. And I say that as someone with a degree in Criminal Justice.

 

[Howard's Jock]

It makes you wonder how many other places would be this incompetent in a similar situation. I'd love to say that 99.9% of police departments would have handled it well and saved lives, but i have no idea. Here's to hoping we don't find out.

 

[tolleyjenkins]

It makes you wonder how many other places would be this incompetent in a similar situation. I'd love to say that 99.9% of police departments would have handled it well and saved lives, but i have no idea. Here's to hoping we don't find out.

we will find out. we're the only country where we keep finding out over, and over, and over.

 

[ChicagoTiger85]

Not sure the galaxy brain take is justified every time something isn’t done well

 

[tboonpickens]

we will find out. we're the only country where we keep finding out over, and over, and over.

Exactly. And it isn't because we're the only country with mentally ill people.

 

[Howard's Jock]

Not sure the galaxy brain take is justified every time something isn’t done well

What is galaxy brain? Explain it like I'm not smart

 

[anon_5e8aassgcbjz1]

we will find out. we're the only country where we keep finding out over, and over, and over.

We know better than everyone else, though. Guns are venerated in this country, and we pay the price for it every single day. Tens of thousands of lives lost each year to suicide by gun, tens of thousands of murders by gun. Nothing can be done says the only country where this happens with the severity and regularity it does here.

 

[ChicagoTiger85]

What is galaxy brain? Explain it like I'm not smart

Basically starting with some particular fact, making a general statement based on that fact, then shifting into high gear and making it about some sort national, international, and maybe even human nature issue. For OP, it’s that everything is failing at every level. For somebody else, this is somehow about Ukraine. It’s like everything that happens is about the just about anything else you can think of.

 

[clemsonfn8]

We know better than everyone else, though. Guns are venerated in this country, and we pay the price for it every single day. Tens of thousands of lives lost each year to suicide by gun, tens of thousands of murders by gun. Nothing can be done says the only country where this happens with the severity and regularity it does here.

How are we defeating the opioid death epidemic? That’s not working out great currently. As far as firearms being revered in this country....you’re correct. They are part of our history and the VAST MAJORITY of gun owners have not and will not murder someone or commit a crime with a firearm. According to the CDC there were 45,222 firearm related deaths on the last calculated year. That includes suicide, accidents, gang related, and crimes. 70,040 uses of firearms in self defense per year. Back to my opioid comment....68,300 deaths per year.

 

[Chefkdh]

With all the details of this situation, you’ll never convince me that it wasn’t staged. Call me a conspiracy theorist all you want but there’s no way any of what happened should have transpired

 

[funkbott]

Ageeed. We’ve gotta enact the red flag law nation wide. A lot of these shooter display telltale indications that are known by other folks that interact with them. Those folks should also be held accountable for not reporting it.

Its a no brainer. Bi-partisan. I feel like Americans agree on it. The swamp in DC are failing us all.


Re: Uvalde, there are some folks that need to be in jail right now. Pussies sitting there waiting for orders and or equipment while kids are being shot? Keeping parents from going inside to do the polices’ job? Sheesh. Breaks my heart.

I dunno man I see what you’re saying but that’s also kind of a slippery slope.

Should I report my next door neighbor if I see him talking to himself and looking pissed off as he walks out to get his newspaper? Will I be charged / held accountable if I don’t report my next door neighbor if I see him talking to himself and looking pissed off as he walks out to get his newspaper if he decides to go shoot people the next day?

My brother literally had a threat on his life last week by someone who knows him and knows where he lives. I checked the guy out online and he 100% displays the tendencies that would be a no brainer “red flag.”

Of course, the police did nothing. We tried.

 

[Howard's Jock]

With all the details of this situation, you’ll never convince me that it wasn’t staged. Call me a conspiracy theorist all you want but there’s no way any of what happened should have transpired

Staged by whom?

 

[Howard's Jock]

I dunno man I see what you’re saying but that’s also kind of a slippery slope.

Should I report my next door neighbor if I see him talking to himself and looking pissed off as he walks out to get his newspaper? Will I be charged / held accountable if I don’t report my next door neighbor if I see him talking to himself and looking pissed off as he walks out to get his newspaper?

Just go ahead and shoot the neighbor iyam

 

[KennyRogersRoasters]

Staged by whom?

 

[CUtig]

How are we defeating the opioid death epidemic? That’s not working out great currently. As far as firearms being revered in this country....you’re correct. They are part of our history and the VAST MAJORITY of gun owners have not and will not murder someone or commit a crime with a firearm. According to the CDC there were 45,222 firearm related deaths on the last calculated year. That includes suicide, accidents, gang related, and crimes. 70,040 uses of firearms in self defense per year. Back to my opioid comment....68,300 deaths per year.

Don’t pay any attention to @LaniKaiTiger. That person literally shows up on every thread where they can push a political agenda. We have a few on both sides that do it but @LaniKaiTiger might be the worst.

 

[GoodWord28]

I dunno man I see what you’re saying but that’s also kind of a slippery slope.

Should I report my next door neighbor if I see him talking to himself and looking pissed off as he walks out to get his newspaper? Will I be charged / held accountable if I don’t report my next door neighbor if I see him talking to himself and looking pissed off as he walks out to get his newspaper if he decides to go shoot people the next day?

My brother literally had a threat on his life last week by someone who knows him and knows where he lives. I checked the guy out online and he 100% displays the tendencies that would be a no brainer “red flag.”

Of course, the police did nothing. We tried.

Of course not. But, if your neighbor shows you his guns and asks “who wants some” “im gonna make them pay” “remember me” “they made me do it”

Then you would need to report that.

 

[GoodWord28]

As more and more details come out about this tragedy, it becomes more and more clear how incompetent our government agencies are on nearly every level. New laws won't help if we don't follow the ones we have in place already. So I would just say to the "do something" crowd, how about making the something we do actually following the laws we have on the books to deal with these situations? It's unbelievable how poorly all this was handled. If you haven't read about it, I would encourage everyone to do so. There are a lot of people who should be out of a job and in many cases, going to jail over what transpired here.

2.5 hours and this thread is still civil. Im even agreeing with @Willence

If Chris Ards Tigerillustrated.com can come to an agreement on this highly controversial topic, I demand that congress get it together and act.

 

[kgwillison]

So

How do you suggest the government address mental health, and how much of an increase in government spending would you deem acceptable in order to address it?

In Uvalde, for example, approximately 40% of the city’s budget goes towards the police force. Do you think a city like Uvalde should adress mental health through new spending, or would taking some of the money budgeted towards policing and moving it towards mental health be a better way to go?

Some of the same people crying for the government to do more about mental health are responsible for cutting mental health budgets and/or (like Oklahoma) prohibiting red flag laws that would prevent people with mental illness from owning guns.

 

[Howard's Jock]

Of course not. But, if your neighbor shows you his guns and asks “who wants some” “im gonna make them pay” “remember me” “they made me do it”

Then you would need to report that.

I haven't followed the uvalde thing closely. Did the shooter do that? And what you're describing would fall under the snitches get stitches code in my neighborhoods

 

[clemsonfn8]

So

Some of the same people crying for the government to do more about mental health are responsible for cutting mental health budgets and/or (like Oklahoma) prohibiting red flag laws that would prevent people with mental illness from owning guns.

Mental Illness is already on a 4473 when you purchase a firearm. If you falsify the answer it is up to the FBI to catch that and deny the purchase. Literally how an FBI NICS works. Still doesn’t prevent crime.

 

[tigerman92]

How do you suggest the government address mental health, and how much of an increase in government spending would you deem acceptable in order to address it?

In Uvalde, for example, approximately 40% of the city’s budget goes towards the police force. Do you think a city like Uvalde should adress mental health through new spending, or would taking some of the money budgeted towards policing and moving it towards mental health be a better way to go?

40 Billion of “aid” to Ukraine could have been better spent on mental health. Plenty of similar examples. Need to prioritize better and act like money doesn’t grow on printing press trees.

 

[padtigers]

I hope you aren’t only just now realizing how incompetent the government is at pretty much all levels

Always have been...... Just now, with social media, we get a better view. I wish we could fire all of DC. Do you think we would even notice?

 

[dbjork6317]

we will find out. we're the only country where we keep finding out over, and over, and over.

100%. Another school shooting like this is imminent. It will happen again. And it takes a school shooting for Americans to even care about it anymore. Mass shootings are happening by the day. And literally no changes of any kind happen. No increased spending on mental health, no new gun regulations, not even more focus on enforcing the gun regulations that already exist. Nothing. And then everyone acts shocked when it happens again. Its pure insanity.

Gun violence is America’s great plague. In between the mass shootings, we’ll have some of our over-militarized police officers use a gun to kill some unarmed citizen because they’re afraid said citizen has a gun.

 

[padtigers]

My biggest concern with "red flag laws" is a person could simply not like someone. Make up a story. Tell the authorities. The person could then have his/her guns taken away. All which are a direct violation of due process.

 

[padtigers]

100%. Another school shooting like this is imminent. It will happen again. And it takes a school shooting for Americans to even care about it anymore. Mass shootings are happening by the day. And literally no changes of any kind happen. No increased spending on mental health, no new gun regulations, not even more focus on enforcing the gun regulations that already exist. Nothing. And then everyone acts shocked when it happens again. Its pure insanity.

Gun violence is America’s great plague. In between the mass shootings, we’ll have some of our over-militarized police officers use a gun to kill some unarmed citizen because they’re afraid said citizen has a gun.

The ignoring of the existing gun laws is exactly why I am against passing new laws. Going through the new laws process is an absolute waste of time and money if they are not going to enforce standing laws. Also the mental health situations need to be addressed. Starting with a ton of struggling veterans.