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OT: Uvalde

As more and more details come out about this tragedy, it becomes more and more clear how incompetent our government agencies are on nearly every level. New laws won't help if we don't follow the ones we have in place already. So I would just say to the "do something" crowd, how about making the something we do actually following the laws we have on the books to deal with these situations? It's unbelievable how poorly all this was handled. If you haven't read about it, I would encourage everyone to do so. There are a lot of people who should be out of a job and in many cases, going to jail over what transpired here.
Speaking of rules not being followed…

 
100%. Another school shooting like this is imminent. It will happen again. And it takes a school shooting for Americans to even care about it anymore. Mass shootings are happening by the day. And literally no changes of any kind happen. No increased spending on mental health, no new gun regulations, not even more focus on enforcing the gun regulations that already exist. Nothing. And then everyone acts shocked when it happens again. Its pure insanity.

Gun violence is America’s great plague. In between the mass shootings, we’ll have some of our over-militarized police officers use a gun to kill some unarmed citizen because they’re afraid said citizen has a gun.
Great Plague? Gun related deaths as a whole are not even close to the highest death rate in America. The Great Plague is thinking America should punish the 99%+ of people who are law abiding citizens to try (and fail) to prevent crime and death. Murder has been around since humans have been on this planet. It will be here until the human race is no longer here. Let’s start by teaching young people that just because something didn’t go their way that they are somehow a victim. Life sucks sometimes. Suck it up and try to improve. As parents we need to raise our children and not let social media or television raise them for us out of convenience. Lets start protecting our children by raising better children
 
Cops in the US are essentially armed and financed like an actual military. Either that's all unnecessary, or the fact that it is necessary says that the civilian brandished armaments causing that need should be curtailed.

Apparently even with the massive budget this PD had, the cops were still too scared to save the lives of all these children. Of course with the vice grip police unions have on this country, there will be virtually no accountability for any failings.
As a former law-enforcement officer Every one of those officers that stood outside and waited should be terminated! I wish there was someway to charge them with some criminal negligence of duty! I took an oath to protect and serve. Protect comes first! I can and Will say I wish they could be tried for cowardice! I have personally gone into homes and buildings pursuing individuals that were shooting at the police! I thank God for protecting me however there was no choice! I cannot imagine standing around While children are being massacred! I hope they have long lives to think about their choices!
 
It makes me sick..Cops just standing in the hall..Most of them with the same rifle if not automatic..Ballistic shields and everyone of them turned into cowards..Not only that turns out the room he was in the door was unlocked..Didn't even try..Just told the press the damn door was locked
 
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Of course not. But, if your neighbor shows you his guns and asks “who wants some” “im gonna make them pay” “remember me” “they made me do it”

Then you would need to report that.
Yeah, the combination of what was said to my brother, with how this person behaves on social media, was truly alarming to my family and me.

Very disappointed in the response by ATLPD, who said there was no credible threat…..but I’ll let you decide, this is a direct quote from what was said to my brother in writing - “you better hope I don’t see you in person again, I’ve made it my mission to see that people like you get blacklisted from life.” If that isn’t a threat then I don’t know what is. All of this over my brother not wanting to rent this guy his spare bedroom 😯
 
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Great Plague? Gun related deaths as a whole are not even close to the highest death rate in America. The Great Plague is thinking America should punish the 99%+ of people who are law abiding citizens to try (and fail) to prevent crime and death. Murder has been around since humans have been on this planet. It will be here until the human race is no longer here. Let’s start by teaching young people that just because something didn’t go their way that they are somehow a victim. Life sucks sometimes. Suck it up and try to improve. As parents we need to raise our children and not let social media or television raise them for us out of convenience. Lets start protecting our children by raising better children
”19 kids died”

”life sucks, suck it up!”
 
Yeah, the combination of what was said to my brother, with how this person behaves on social media, was truly alarming to my family and me.

Very disappointed in the response by ATLPD, who said there was no credible threat…..but I’ll let you decide, this is a direct quote from what was said to my brother in writing - “you better hope I don’t see you in person again, I’ve made it my mission to see that people like you get blacklisted from life.” If that isn’t a threat then I don’t know what is. All of this over my brother not wanting to rent this guy his spare bedroom 😯
Whoa. I’d file a formal complaint.
 
My biggest concern with "red flag laws" is a person could simply not like someone. Make up a story. Tell the authorities. The person could then have his/her guns taken away. All which are a direct violation of due process.
People who are in favor of red flag laws are completely and utterly foolish. They haven't thought, for even a single second, about how they would actually play out in the real world.
 
With all the details of this situation, you’ll never convince me that it wasn’t staged. Call me a conspiracy theorist all you want but there’s no way any of what happened should have transpired
On the contrary, you'd have to be a conspiracy theorist to believe that an 18 year old would have all of the equipment, supplies, and items that I've heard he had (assuming that all that was true).
 
I dunno man I see what you’re saying but that’s also kind of a slippery slope.

Should I report my next door neighbor if I see him talking to himself and looking pissed off as he walks out to get his newspaper? Will I be charged / held accountable if I don’t report my next door neighbor if I see him talking to himself and looking pissed off as he walks out to get his newspaper if he decides to go shoot people the next day?

My brother literally had a threat on his life last week by someone who knows him and knows where he lives. I checked the guy out online and he 100% displays the tendencies that would be a no brainer “red flag.”

Of course, the police did nothing. We tried.

In Texas, where this happened, you are encouraged to report your neighbor if you think they might have had or be trying to get an abortion. Why should your scenario be different?
 
”19 kids died”

”life sucks, suck it up!”
Clearly not what I said but when you say America’s great plague I would assume you would mean what kills the most people in America. 1 child dying is a tragedy. Tragedy happens everyday and we won’t stop that by increasing laws. Put more resource officers in schools would be a great start to preventing this. 1 overweight and close to retirement officer is not sufficient. You still haven’t answered my question to you after your first question to me. What’s your perfect solution to all this and how exactly will it work? There are far more things that kill people in United States in greater numbers than a firearm. Also it is not the firearm that killed 19 children. It was a psychopath that was intent on doing harm to others. Starting with his grandmother.
 
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With all the details of this situation, you’ll never convince me that it wasn’t staged. Call me a conspiracy theorist all you want but there’s no way any of what happened should have transpired

I called it a few weeks ago when this happened... it would not take long for the TI brain trust to start calling this a false flag. So predictable and disappointing.
 
Speaking of rules not being followed…

does it really bother you? i’ve always wondered that about these posts
 
In Texas, where this happened, you are encouraged to report your neighbor if you think they might have had or be trying to get an abortion. Why should your scenario be different?
Huh? Where did I ever say that scenario would/should be ok?….you think I’m not pro-choice or something? GTFO with making assumptions like that man that’s messed up
 
Huh? Where did I ever say that scenario would/should be ok?….you think I’m not pro-choice or something? GTFO with making assumptions like that man that’s messed up

What assumption did I make? I made a point about Texas based on what you said.
 
What assumption did I make? I made a point about Texas based on what you said.
You are implying that I would be OK with neighbors ratting each other out for getting abortions, a completely different scenario from ratting your neighbors out for making blatant violent threats

I wouldn’t want to rat my neighbor out for threats or violence unless I knew for a fact they were credible/dangerous. I would never rat anybody out for getting an abortion, like, ever
 
You are implying that I would be OK with neighbors ratting each other out for getting abortions, a completely different scenario from ratting your neighbors out for making blatant violent threats

I wouldn’t want to rat my neighbor out for threats or violence unless I knew for a fact they were credible/dangerous. I would never ever anybody out for getting an abortion, like, ever
that last line wow!!!! 😂

maybe you edited it. lol
 
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Clearly not what I said but when you say America’s great plague I would assume you would mean what kills the most people in America. 1 child dying is a tragedy. Tragedy happens everyday and we won’t stop that by increasing laws. Put more resource officers in schools would be a great start to preventing this. 1 overweight and close to retirement officer is not sufficient. You still haven’t answered my question to you after your first question to me. What’s your perfect solution to all this and how exactly will it work? There are far more things that kill people in United States in greater numbers than a firearm. Also it is not the firearm that killed 19 children. It was a psychopath that was intent on doing harm to others. Starting with his grandmother.
There clearly isn’t a perfect solution, but I’d probably start with federal single payer healthcare that allows all Americans to have easy access to mental healthcare. This would solve a lot of other issues not related to gun violence as well. At a state and local level we should increase mental health access in schools, perhaps with a full time mental health professional on staff for some schools or districts.

Let’s treat guns like cars. In order to own a gun you must pass certain safety courses and obtain a license, you then must register you guns annually and you must own insurance on them to cover any accident. Then lets regulate the guns themselves. Let’s focus especially on hand guns and put a strict limit on the amount of rounds a gun can hold and limit the number of guns that are produced and sold so that, gradually, the volume of guns in the country decreases. There’s probably other things we could regulate on guns that I don’t even know about, I think the goal should be to make it really, really hard for an individual person to shoot a high number of people in a short period of time.

Nothing’s perfect, nothing is going to be a quick or easy fix, nothing’s going to be fool proof. But just because we can’t “stop” tragedies doesn’t mean we can’t or shouldn’t try to significantly reduce them, if we truly believe that life is valuable and should be protected in any meaningful way.
 
It's almost as if they didn't want to stop him. Follow that down the rabbit hole, and see what you come up with.
This is what I’m referring to. The cops were called when he first showed up at the funeral home. They then showed up and did NOTHING. Also, how is someone able to shoot a gun outside of a school for 12 mins without anyone locking the daggum door?

I was at VT when the shooting happened. That shooting laid the precedent for school safety and protocols across the board. I’ve never been to a school since that has not had an intercom system that required you to be buzzed in or had classrooms that weren’t locked to the outside.

im also still trying to figure out why it was border patrol involved instead of local police…
 
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My biggest concern with "red flag laws" is a person could simply not like someone. Make up a story. Tell the authorities. The person could then have his/her guns taken away. All which are a direct violation of due process.
I suspect you’ll see this play out quite often in divorce cases. Husband: she’s a psycho; wife: he’s a psycho.
On the contrary, you'd have to be a conspiracy theorist to believe that an 18 year old would have all of the equipment, supplies, and items that I've heard he had (assuming that all that was true).
interesting that the police commander on the scene, Pete Arredondo, who lied about officers having to use keys from a janitor to get into locked classrooms, is a Biden and Beto supporter and political donor. It has been confirmed those classroom doors do not lock from the inside. The security footage also confirms they did not try to open the classroom doors as Arredondo stated. The Uvalde police dept has also hired a private law firm to fight the release of the body cam footage.
 
There clearly isn’t a perfect solution, but I’d probably start with federal single payer healthcare that allows all Americans to have easy access to mental healthcare. This would solve a lot of other issues not related to gun violence as well. At a state and local level we should increase mental health access in schools, perhaps with a full time mental health professional on staff for some schools or districts.

Let’s treat guns like cars. In order to own a gun you must pass certain safety courses and obtain a license, you then must register you guns annually and you must own insurance on them to cover any accident. Then lets regulate the guns themselves. Let’s focus especially on hand guns and put a strict limit on the amount of rounds a gun can hold and limit the number of guns that are produced and sold so that, gradually, the volume of guns in the country decreases. There’s probably other things we could regulate on guns that I don’t even know about, I think the goal should be to make it really, really hard for an individual person to shoot a high number of people in a short period of time.

Nothing’s perfect, nothing is going to be a quick or easy fix, nothing’s going to be fool proof. But just because we can’t “stop” tragedies doesn’t mean we can’t or shouldn’t try to significantly reduce them, if we truly believe that life is valuable and should be protected in any meaningful way.
It also doesn’t mean you should take away rights and freedoms from someone who hasn’t and won’t commit a crime. I agree on mental health issues. I’m not going to register any firearm with the federal government because 1. It’s no ones business what I own if I’m not a criminal and 2. Our government doesn’t have a great track record for trust (Republican or Democrat). Is there any legitimate research that proves magazine capacity prevents crime? If I have 1 30 round magazine or 3 10 round magazines there will be no difference. All a criminal would have to do is carry more magazines. As far as licensing it will never work. All a democratic government would have to do is deny your request for a license/permit. It already happens in New York and California. Speaking of California....all of the gun legislation in that state has not slowed down crime one bit. It has actually increased. As a free citizen I don’t want any gun legislation passed that hinders my ability in obtaining a tool for protection. According to FBI statistics I am twice as likely to use a firearm in self defense than I am to die as a result of a firearm. Contrary to our President’s opinion the Constitution is absolute and not up for removing freedoms. Amendments are made for increasing freedoms not taking away rights or making it harder on law abiding citizens.
 
It also doesn’t mean you should take away rights and freedoms from someone who hasn’t and won’t commit a crime. I agree on mental health issues. I’m not going to register any firearm with the federal government because 1. It’s no ones business what I own if I’m not a criminal and 2. Our government doesn’t have a great track record for trust (Republican or Democrat). Is there any legitimate research that proves magazine capacity prevents crime? If I have 1 30 round magazine or 3 10 round magazines there will be no difference. All a criminal would have to do is carry more magazines. As far as licensing it will never work. All a democratic government would have to do is deny your request for a license/permit. It already happens in New York and California. Speaking of California....all of the gun legislation in that state has not slowed down crime one bit. It has actually increased. As a free citizen I don’t want any gun legislation passed that hinders my ability in obtaining a tool for protection. According to FBI statistics I am twice as likely to use a firearm in self defense than I am to die as a result of a firearm. Contrary to our President’s opinion the Constitution is absolute and not up for removing freedoms. Amendments are made for increasing freedoms not taking away rights or making it harder on law abiding citizens.
The Second amendment only guarantees you the right to be armed and gives no other instruction on what that means. Even from an originalist point of view, the guns that existed at the time it was written are vastly different than the guns that exist now.

I’m not proposing that anyone be banned from owning firearms that isn’t already banned (felons, for example) nor am i proposing confiscating weapons that are already legally owned. I’m simply saying let’s regulate them the way we regulate other things. It’s no one’s business what kind of car you buy either, but the government requires it to be registered. The constitution gives you the right to vote but you have to register in order to do it. There’s nothing in the constitution about social security numbers.

And you’re right, the states shouldn’t determine the licenses, that should be federal. That would reduce the kinds of issues that we see in places like Illinois, where the majority of guns used in crimes are purchased in neighboring states that have more lax gun laws.

And I would argue that it does matter quite a lot if you have 130 rounds or 3 or 10. What could you ever need 130 rounds for? Are you expecting that a foreign military is going to break into your house? Is there some super deer out there that requires that many bullets to put it down? There’s only one reason why any person would ever need to have 130 rounds and that’s if their goal is to shoot a lot of people very quickly.
 
The Second amendment only guarantees you the right to be armed and gives no other instruction on what that means. Even from an originalist point of view, the guns that existed at the time it was written are vastly different than the guns that exist now.

I’m not proposing that anyone be banned from owning firearms that isn’t already banned (felons, for example) nor am i proposing confiscating weapons that are already legally owned. I’m simply saying let’s regulate them the way we regulate other things. It’s no one’s business what kind of car you buy either, but the government requires it to be registered. The constitution gives you the right to vote but you have to register in order to do it. There’s nothing in the constitution about social security numbers.

And you’re right, the states shouldn’t determine the licenses, that should be federal. That would reduce the kinds of issues that we see in places like Illinois, where the majority of guns used in crimes are purchased in neighboring states that have more lax gun laws.

And I would argue that it does matter quite a lot if you have 130 rounds or 3 or 10. What could you ever need 130 rounds for? Are you expecting that a foreign military is going to break into your house? Is there some super deer out there that requires that many bullets to put it down? There’s only one reason why any person would ever need to have 130 rounds and that’s if their goal is to shoot a lot of people very quickly.
My number was 1 magazine that holds 30 rounds or 3 magazines that hold 10 rounds each. There’s not much difference. You’re talking seconds difference in reloading fresh magazines.
 
There clearly isn’t a perfect solution, but I’d probably start with federal single payer healthcare that allows all Americans to have easy access to mental healthcare. This would solve a lot of other issues not related to gun violence as well. At a state and local level we should increase mental health access in schools, perhaps with a full time mental health professional on staff for some schools or districts.

Let’s treat guns like cars. In order to own a gun you must pass certain safety courses and obtain a license, you then must register you guns annually and you must own insurance on them to cover any accident. Then lets regulate the guns themselves. Let’s focus especially on hand guns and put a strict limit on the amount of rounds a gun can hold and limit the number of guns that are produced and sold so that, gradually, the volume of guns in the country decreases. There’s probably other things we could regulate on guns that I don’t even know about, I think the goal should be to make it really, really hard for an individual person to shoot a high number of people in a short period of time.

Nothing’s perfect, nothing is going to be a quick or easy fix, nothing’s going to be fool proof. But just because we can’t “stop” tragedies doesn’t mean we can’t or shouldn’t try to significantly reduce them, if we truly believe that life is valuable and should be protected in any meaningful way.
Why do you hate freedom so much?

You want to treat an unalienable right as if it was a privilege?

Without the second amendment, and everything it provides, you'd have nothing left.
 
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The Second amendment only guarantees you the right to be armed and gives no other instruction on what that means. Even from an originalist point of view, the guns that existed at the time it was written are vastly different than the guns that exist now.

I’m not proposing that anyone be banned from owning firearms that isn’t already banned (felons, for example) nor am i proposing confiscating weapons that are already legally owned. I’m simply saying let’s regulate them the way we regulate other things. It’s no one’s business what kind of car you buy either, but the government requires it to be registered. The constitution gives you the right to vote but you have to register in order to do it. There’s nothing in the constitution about social security numbers.

And you’re right, the states shouldn’t determine the licenses, that should be federal. That would reduce the kinds of issues that we see in places like Illinois, where the majority of guns used in crimes are purchased in neighboring states that have more lax gun laws.

And I would argue that it does matter quite a lot if you have 130 rounds or 3 or 10. What could you ever need 130 rounds for? Are you expecting that a foreign military is going to break into your house? Is there some super deer out there that requires that many bullets to put it down? There’s only one reason why any person would ever need to have 130 rounds and that’s if their goal is to shoot a lot of people very quickly.
You really should read some history books. I mean, you're basically a nazi.
 
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My number was 1 magazine that holds 30 rounds or 3 magazines that hold 10 rounds each. There’s not much difference. You’re talking seconds difference in reloading fresh magazines.
Ah ok. Well good point. Then we should require guns to be in such a way that changing out the magazine takes more time. If we start with the idea of “how can we make it really hard for someone to commit a mass shooting” then I’m sure we can figure out how to design a gun that way.
 
Ah ok. Well good point. Then we should require guns to be in such a way that changing out the magazine takes more time. If we start with the idea of “how can we make it really hard for someone to commit a mass shooting” then I’m sure we can figure out how to design a gun that way.
Why allow any firearm that requires a mag to be available to civilians? For civilian application (i.e home/self defense, hunting) what can a pistol do that a revolver cannot?

for long rifles, I have only heard one practical application for a AR15 style rifle and that is coyote hunting to protect cattle.

Outside of the reason “I like guns”, what is a practical reason for civilians to have anything outside of a revolver, shotgun, black powder or bolt action rifle?????

I have yet to hear one …

And I’m and staunch supporter of the 2nd Amendment
 
Why allow any firearm that requires a mag to be available to civilians? For civilian application (i.e home/self defense, hunting) what can a pistol do that a revolver cannot?

for long rifles, I have only heard one practical application for a AR15 style rifle and that is coyote hunting to protect cattle.

Outside of the reason “I like guns”, what is a practical reason for civilians to have anything outside of a revolver, shotgun, black powder or bolt action rifle?????

I have yet to hear one …

And I’m and staunch supporter of the 2nd Amendment
How about the one that's mentioned right there in the 2nd Amendment?
 
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