OT: Vaccine Passports

[.Hank]

Dude, it has nothing to do with free market. It's the Government having control of what you can do or where you can go if not for the vaccine. This really isn't complicated.

You are making your point based on conjecture of what could happen, he is making his argument based on the released information about how the passport would be implemented. At this point, it has been said to be something that would be implemented by businesses, with information verified by the gov.

You may be correct that it will lead to the scenario you are afraid of, but it is wholly unknown at this point.

 

[CUFam98]

Say I go to an event that it is mandated you show your vaccine card. Then one of the events promoters or a local journalist comes up to me, asks me a few questions about the event and takes a picture of me. Then there is a photo on their website or in the local paper that identifies me. Well then every reader would clearly know that I was in attendance at an event that required vaccination so they would know I was vaccinated. Personally I wouldn't care but I'm just curious if this would violate HIPAA

No. The HIPAA Privacy Rule already allows your provider to share vaccination records with public health authorities. Vaccination records are voluntarily shared and confirmed by schools/camps etc. Most states already have a vaccine registry process that has all required or reportable vaccines.

And you are allowed to disclose whatever protected health information you want. HIPAA has never prevented that.

 

[Trading Tiger]

Show me your papers.

You don't have an option for "I've got friends in high places, so I will have a "vaccine passport" even though I did not get the vaccine", but that's the one I would have chosen.

 

[Buzzards Roost]

I would’ve voted in this poll if the wording of your options wasn’t so leading and biased. Because it is a valid and curious question.

But, as it is....Off to the round table with this troll ——>

Agree the second sentence in choice #1 was totally unnecessary. I trust the government vaccine development program implicitly. But I don’t trust our military deployment program at all with regards to basing troops in other countries. I definitely do not trust the federal criminal justice system.

 

[Toasted712]

If you don't want the flu. Get the flu shot.
If you don't want covid. Get the covid vaccine.

Don't waste government money enforcing an overreaching and expensive policy that will need another oversight committee in charge of for something that should be your choice. I shouldn't have to tell you if I have had the vaccine or not. That's my business and my medical history. If you are scared of me because I don't have the vaccine then why don't you just get the vaccine yourself? You know....Just like the flu shot.

Also, what if developing natural antibodies and T-Cells is better long term for those not at risk by helping them to ever better fight off future strains and viruses as they get older? Does that medical science not count for something either?

For at risk people, the vaccine absolutely makes a ton of sense. I HIGHLY encouraged all of my family who are old or at risk to get the vaccine. For those who are young and/or not at risk, the benefits of fighting it off naturally may be superior to temporary vaccination. It should be your choice.

That's all fine well and good. Except we already require MMR, small pox, polio and a handful of other vaccinations. I don't believe you were allowed into the PUBLIC school system I was in without them. Don't want to get them? That's fine don't go to school in the district. It was also required for every sports league, including public HS sports, and summer camp I ever went to.

Granted this virus is a little different because it doesn't affect young people like the above mentioned vaccines, but it isn't THAT different. My point was just that there are plenty of things that you have to do that you do have to show your medical (vaccination) history.

I'd personally treat this like the shingles vaccine. Everyone 50+ or underlying medical conditions (including obesity, smoking, high BP, etc for the "at risk") go get it.

 

[Mr. Roger Dorn]

TL;DR: case by case basis. Bad idea, but respect private businesses. General government distrust.

Not clicking any of the loaded options. A vaccine passport, even privately managed, isn’t a good idea IMO. I don’t have faith in the government to stay out of it. However, because I’ll be fully vaccinated next week, I’m probably not going to miss out on an event that I would otherwise attend solely because of a policy I don’t agree with, if said policy doesn’t inconvenience me.

I think private businesses should be able to operate as they please, and let the free market determine whether they’re running a good business or not. I really do not like the idea of a vaccine passport for everyday living - groceries, restaurants, etc., but I would respect businesses decisions to operate that way while patronizing businesses that don’t when the option is there.

 

[Trading Tiger]

It's time to start calling out people like Trevor did today the with Satan shoe. Biden administration is working on the plan so you can deny its not a government thing but you're wrong. Anytime you would like to discuss Biden's policies let's go. It's a circus in DC with Biden being the ringmaster. It's time to start calling out the clowns following him.

Biden administration helping develop standards to prove vaccination

The Biden administration is working on creating a set of standards for people to prove they've been vaccinated against Covid-19, according to an administration official.

www.cnn.com

Biden is the ringmaster??? Are you sure?

IMO, Biden is more comparable to the huge pile of elephant dung out back than he is an elephant, much less the ringmaster.

 

[Toasted712]

What's next, the government restricting a woman's ability to have an abortion? Oh wait, that already happens.

No that's OK because religion and government don't mix.

 

[Mr. Roger Dorn]

Biden is the ringmaster??? Are you sure?

IMO, Biden is more comparable to the huge pile of elephant dung out back than he is an elephant, much less the ringmaster.

Not even close to the ringmaster.

 

[TigerFlow]

I'm open to suggestion for another poll reply. What do you have?

If you legitimately wanted to be serious about it, which I can tell you do not. But, wth...

1 - Yes
2 - No
3 - Undecided



That wasn't hard.

 

[touchdownbob]

The federal government is the wizard behind the curtain. If you don't see that then you are willfully ignorant. What does this "passport" requirement mean for people like me that can't take the vaccine? I guess that I'm suck in a lifetime quarantine dictated by some lefty CEOs? Maybe I can retire on the forthcoming lawsuit.

 

[touchdownbob]

That's all fine well and good. Except we already require MMR, small pox, polio and a handful of other vaccinations. I don't believe you were allowed into the PUBLIC school system I was in without them. Don't want to get them? That's fine don't go to school in the district. It was also required for every sports league, including public HS sports, and summer camp I ever went to.

Granted this virus is a little different because it doesn't affect young people like the above mentioned vaccines, but it isn't THAT different. My point was just that there are plenty of things that you have to do that you do have to show your medical (vaccination) history.

I'd personally treat this like the shingles vaccine. Everyone 50+ or underlying medical conditions (including obesity, smoking, high BP, etc for the "at risk") go get it.

Not true. You can exempt families based on religious grounds.

 

[scartiger]

You are making your point based on conjecture of what could happen, he is making his argument based on the released information about how the passport would be implemented. At this point, it has been said to be something that would be implemented by businesses, with information verified by the gov.

You may be correct that it will lead to the scenario you are afraid of, but it is wholly unknown at this point.

From our congressman

A few months ago, I posted that I opposed making COVID vaccines mandatory. I said that everyone had the right to get them, and everyone had the right to refuse. Publicly, I've encouraged anyone with questions about the vaccine to speak with their doctor. In response to that post, several folks in the media attempted to fact check me, claiming that SC had no plans to make the vaccines mandatory. 1) I never said SC specifically, I'm a federal rep 2) there are many different ways to essentially make a vaccine mandatory.

If you need a vaccine to fly, go to a restaurant, or watch your kid's sports team, they are mandatory, regardless of what you try to call it. These COVID passports that the Biden Administration is working on represents a threat to both personal liberty and medical privacy, and I strongly oppose them.


In case you didn't see it:

If you need a vaccine to fly, go to a restaurant, or watch your kid's sports team, they are mandatory, regardless of what you try to call it.

 

[.Hank]

From our congressman

A few months ago, I posted that I opposed making COVID vaccines mandatory. I said that everyone had the right to get them, and everyone had the right to refuse. Publicly, I've encouraged anyone with questions about the vaccine to speak with their doctor. In response to that post, several folks in the media attempted to fact check me, claiming that SC had no plans to make the vaccines mandatory. 1) I never said SC specifically, I'm a federal rep 2) there are many different ways to essentially make a vaccine mandatory.

If you need a vaccine to fly, go to a restaurant, or watch your kid's sports team, they are mandatory, regardless of what you try to call it. These COVID passports that the Biden Administration is working on represents a threat to both personal liberty and medical privacy, and I strongly oppose them.


In case you didn't see it:

If you need a vaccine to fly, go to a restaurant, or watch your kid's sports team, they are mandatory, regardless of what you try to call it.

I mean, no. It can be essentially mandatory. But not actually mandatory. There is a difference. Call it semantics if you want, but that is just political posturing on his part. There is very much a difference between a business making requirements on its own and the government making those requirements.

 

[Trading Tiger]

Agree the second sentence in choice #1 was totally unnecessary. I trust the government vaccine development program implicitly. But I don’t trust our military deployment program at all with regards to basing troops in other countries. I definitely do not trust the federal criminal justice system.

As someone who used to trust the government's involvement in the medical field, here is where they lost me...How long does it take to create a vaccine?

Up until recently, the average time it took to create a new vaccine was about a decade. With that in mind, there is absolutely no way that an effective and safe vaccine could be created in just a matter of months, as is the case with the covid vaccine. It can't be done, physically impossible. I might have been OK with accelerating that timeline by say 25-50%, but 90%?¿?¿ LOLOLOL

OR...

It does not really take a decade to create a vaccine. It actually takes much less time, but there is just so much red tape, it delays the process significantly. And if that is the case, then the absolute last thing anyone needs is for the government to insert itself even more into the medical field. Any argument for socialized healthcare is obliterated.

So which is it? Was the government right before covid, or is the government right post covid? It can't be both mind you; you don't go from 10 years to a matter of months that quickly in a legit fashion.

Well now that I think about it, I guess there could be a third option. Trump really might be the GOAT after all.

 

[ChicagoTiger85]

I've notice you haven't mentioned any of Biden's policies cause you can't. I don't know since your side was woke first would you like me to post some BLM and Antifa videos to see where it's heading?

My side? I don't even know what you're talking about

 

[jakefest]

I find it overly odd that the government wants us to have a valid ID that shows were are vaccinated to fly but doesn't seem to care if you have a valid ID to vote..........anyone else see the irony?

 

[ChicagoTiger85]

I mean, no. It can be essentially mandatory. But not actually mandatory. There is a difference. Call it semantics if you want, but that is just political posturing on his part. There is very much a difference between a business making requirements on its own and the government making those requirements.

Not to mention that those things are unlikely to happen. Businesses that are already open or that aren't limited aren't going to start requiring proof of vaccination. But businesses that have remained closed and limited, or events that haven't been able to happen or that have had majorly limited attendance, might use this.

The irony is that, once again, people who are committed to opposing any kind of public health measure are actually limiting everybody else.

 

[Buzzards Roost]

As someone who used to trust the government's involvement in the medical field, here is where they lost me...How long does it take to create a vaccine?

Up until recently, the average time it took to create a new vaccine was about a decade. With that in mind, there is absolutely no way that an effective and safe vaccine could be created in just a matter of months, as is the case with the covid vaccine. It can't be done, physically impossible. I might have been OK with accelerating that timeline by say 25-50%, but 90%?¿?¿ LOLOLOL

OR...

It does not really take a decade to create a vaccine. It actually takes much less time, but there is just so much red tape, it delays the process significantly. And if that is the case, then the absolute last thing anyone needs is for the government to insert itself even more into the medical field. Any argument for socialized healthcare is obliterated.

So which is it? Was the government right before covid, or is the government right post covid? It can't be both mind you; you don't go from 10 years to a matter of months that quickly in a legit fashion.

Well now that I think about it, I guess there could be a third option. Trump really might be the GOAT after all.

What it was:
1. The mrna technology was already there. They just had to plug in the antigen.
2. Necessity. We built the AlCan highway in 6 months in WW2 and now take 4 years to build an intersection. When cost efficiency doesn’t matter you can be fast. We built carriers in less than a year vs 8 years now.
3. Basically non-live vaccines have always been safe. The Guillain Barrè deal with the 1970 flu shot being a rare exception. But still effective.

 

[Toasted712]

Not true. You can exempt families based on religious grounds.

Just because I can scam the airlines and get my dog a service dog vest so he can ride next to me and kick someone off the plane, doesn't mean I'm going to.

 

[Toasted712]

What it was:
1. The mrna technology was already there. They just had to plug in the antigen.
2. Necessity. We built the AlCan highway in 6 months in WW2 and now take 4 years to build an intersection. When cost efficiency doesn’t matter you can be fast. We built carriers in less than a year vs 8 years now.
3. Basically non-live vaccines have always been safe. The Guillain Barrè deal with the 1970 flu shot being a rare exception. But still effective.

@Trading Tiger I've spoken to health care professionals on both sides of the political spectrum (Knoxville, Greenville, TX, and Portland-OR) and they've all said exactly this because I asked the same thing. I had the same thoughts, fears, and points as you just laid out.

This would be the first time we've used the MRNA technology (because it's the first time we've had to) to develop a vaccine and under non-pandemic situations (we could still easily see a year or less now that we've gone through this one in the next pandemic) that decade will be 5 years or less because of it. They've tested MRNA's before and they've had decades with no side effects. So the answer to your previous question is yes the government was right both pre and post COVID.

And as we like to say in the research and development/engineering world...

You can pick 2 of 3:

1. accurate
2. fast
3. cheap

You can achieve any 2 of those 3 but the choice will directly, and sometimes astronomically, affect the 3rd. Fast and accurate is possible if you throw enough government money or incentives (I believe this is the route that the gov went; up to big pharma to fund the up till completion).

 

[ChicagoTiger85]

@Trading Tiger I've spoken to health care professionals on both sides of the political spectrum (Knoxville, Greenville, TX, and Portland-OR) and they've all said exactly this because I asked the same thing. I had the same thoughts, fears, and points as you just laid out.

This would be the first time we've used the MRNA technology (because it's the first time we've had to) to develop a vaccine and under non-pandemic situations (we could still easily see a year or less now that we've gone through this one in the next pandemic) that decade will be 5 years or less because of it. They've tested MRNA's before and they've had decades with no side effects. So the answer to your previous question is yes the government was right both pre and post COVID.

And as we like to say in the research and development/engineering world...

You can pick 2 of 3:

1. accurate
2. fast
3. cheap

You can achieve any 2 of those 3 but the choice will directly, and sometimes astronomically, affect the 3rd. Fast and accurate is possible if you throw enough government money or incentives (I believe this is the route that the gov went; up to big pharma to fund the up till completion).

Developing the vaccine during a pandemic also helped with finding a lot of clinical trial participants very quickly.

 

[tigerragman]

They're not talking about having legal requirements for vaccination, they're talking about businesses and other organizations requiring it to participate or attend certain things. Maybe you could have big events sooner if you require vaccination to attend. All the government is talking about doing right now is coming up with a way to validate whether you've been vaccinated or not.

Also, there is no medical science saying anything like the bolded part above.

The "government" does not need to come up with a system to document someone's vaccination record. It already exists thru the CDC"s VAMs system. Not only do you receive a card documenting when and where you had your first, then second vaccines, but the record is also available online. The only additional requirement might possibly be authorizing permission for the government to access your personal records for vaccinations. No need to reinvent the wheel here that I can see.

 

[ChicagoTiger85]

The "government" does not need to come up with a system to document someone's vaccination record. It already exists thru the CDC"s VAMs system. Not only do you receive a card documenting when and where you had your first, then second vaccines, but the record is also available online. The only additional requirement might possibly be authorizing permission for the government to access your personal records for vaccinations. No need to reinvent the wheel here that I can see.

How easy is that to access quickly, though?

 

[saber8689]

Dude, it has nothing to do with free market. It's the Government having control of what you can do or where you can go if not for the vaccine. This really isn't complicated.

This was argued and decided by the supreme court in Jacobson versus Massachusetts in 1905 which allowed the states authority to enforce compulsory vaccination mandates.

The decision was upheld in 1992 and additionally last year when Texas used it to halt abortions.

Vaccine mandates/passports are nothing new and have always been legal. This is not a "new" overreach by the government.

I'm not sure how EUA affects this decision.

 

[tigerragman]

How easy is that to access quickly, though?

"Warp speed" like the vaccinations?