President Trump doesn't have the power to implement these tariffs and he's making a massive mistake with them...

[Willence]

The President doesn't have the power to do what he's doing right now. Further, it's a gift to Democrats and completely wrong-headed to pursue this course of action. He was elected to improve the economy and deal with immigration. He's doing a great job with one (immigration) and we haven't really don't squat about the other. He's going to dismember his mandate in record time if he doesn't calm the waters a bit on the economic side. We've had a very artificially inflated economy since COVID and eventually the chickens are going to come home to roost. I don't think messing with tariffs the way he is will improve those prospects. This is not the time to step on a rake.

 

[uuuuuuuuuuuuuuu]

There are a lot of laws that have the theme of letting the President do whatever the hell he wants as long as he claims it's a "emergency."

The whole tariffs protect American jobs thing sounds great until people pay more for everything and employers lose money due to higher import costs themselves. We need to get past the idea that a real estate investor who's declared bankruptcy several times should be trusted for his opinion on economic policy.

 

[Willence]

There are a lot of laws that have the theme of letting the President do whatever the hell he wants as long as he claims it's a "emergency."

The whole tariffs protect American jobs thing sounds great until people pay more for everything and employers lose money due to higher import costs themselves. We need to get past the idea that a real estate investor who's declared bankruptcy several times should be trusted for his opinion on economic policy.

The issue with tariffs is they have focused benefit and long term cost for everyone else. It's like our corporate tax system which should be abolished immediately. Companies don't pay taxes. They are pass-throughs and the people pay the taxes. When it comes to any form of taxation, the people are ALWAYS the ones that pay. The use of that should be as limited as possible.

 

[uuuuuuuuuuuuuuu]

The issue with tariffs is they have focused benefit and long term cost for everyone else. It's like our corporate tax system which should be abolished immediately. Companies don't pay taxes. They are pass-throughs and the people pay the taxes. When it comes to any form of taxation, the people are ALWAYS the ones that pay. The use of that should be as limited as possible.

Yeah, they have a long term cost with a narrow benefit that I'd describe as political more than economic.

 

[fatpiggy]

Another angle on the tariffs.

When you have the power to impose the tariff you also have the power to remove the tariff. I posit that Canada and Mexico will wrap up securing their borders just before mid-terms. Trump removes their tariffs and stimulates the economy.

 

[CUTiger1977]

 

[yoshi121374]

I don't get the reasoning behind the tariffs? They have been following the Trade agreement that they made with Trump during his first administration. They have been doing what was requested when he threatening a few weeks ago.

Why now, why our friends? Why are we breaking a trade agreement that he made?

It doesn't make any sense.

 

[fatpiggy]

I don't get the reasoning behind the tariffs? They have been following the Trade agreement that they made with Trump during his first administration. They have been doing what was requested when he threatening a few weeks ago.

Why now, why our friends? Why are we breaking a trade agreement that he made?

It doesn't make any sense.

I would argue it's because many people showed up at Mar A Lago with dead ones due to Fentanyl.

When he was campaigning he said he would stop it. He is trying to follow through on that promise. I think he wants the cartels gone. They have been causing too much damage for too long and the regular excuses are getting tired. The US military is stronger than the cartels and Trump knows it. He wants other countries to join him in taking it seriously. He knows that the drastic changes must come at the beginning of his term to give them time to work and see results before the next election.

I do sincerely believe he is trying to stop the flow of fentanyl. We have had hundreds of thousands of deaths in our country in the past couple of years. It is a real, legitimate, problem.

 

[yoshi121374]

I would argue it's because many people showed up at Mar A Lago with dead ones due to Fentanyl.

When he was campaigning he said he would stop it. He is trying to follow through on that promise. I think he wants the cartels gone. They have been causing too much damage for too long and the regular excuses are getting tired. The US military is stronger than the cartels and Trump knows it.

I do sincerely believe he is trying to stop the flow of fentanyl. We have had hundreds of thousands of deaths in our country in the past couple of years. It is a real, legitimate, problem.

Why two weeks after threatening them last time. And why Canada where very little Fentanyl is coming from.

Also, what happened to personal responsibility? There is a fentanyl issue because Americans like Fentanyl.

 

[fatpiggy]

Why two weeks after threatening them last time. And why Canada where very little Fentanyl is coming from.

Also, what happened to personal responsibility? There is a fentanyl issue because Americans like Fentanyl.

I would just say that the people asked Trump, or really Biden too, stop the flow of fentanyl. Thats what the people wanted and asked Trump about on the campaign trail. He is trying to listen to and respond to their concerns.

We are also asking democrats, and Trump, to clean up San Franciso. I hope he sends in the feds to San Fran. It's a disgrace that one of our cities has fallen to drug addicts.

These drugs don't just affect the user. It's not just weed, or cocaine or whatever other casual drug you want to compare it to. It's destroyed a whole city and killed hundreds of thousands.

 

[yoshi121374]

I would just say that the people asked Trump, or really Biden too, stop the flow of fentanyl. Thats what the people wanted and asked Trump about on the campaign trail. He is trying to listen to and respond to their concerns.

We are also asking democrats, and Trump, to clean up San Franciso. I hope he sends in the feds to San Fran. It's a disgrace that one of our cities has fallen to drug addicts.

These drugs don't just affect the user. It's destroyed a whole city.

So we are going to tank our economy, and start a trade war with Canada to stop drug flow(which isn't coming from Canada)?

His all over the place economic behavior is brutal for our economy and the stock market. The Stock Market hates uncertainty.

This is all so similar to the last time he was in office. It's exhausting watching him just throw shit at at the wall constantly. I really am reminded that he was a pretty terrible businessman who only is rich cause Daddy left him a shit ton of money and he made a good reality TV villain.

 

[CUTiger1977]

 

[fatpiggy]

So we are going to tank our economy, and start a trade war with Canada to stop drug flow(which isn't coming from Canada)?

His all over the place economic behavior is brutal for our economy and the stock market. The Stock Market hates uncertainty.

This is all so similar to the last time he was in office. It's exhausting watching him just throw shit at at the wall constantly. I really am reminded that he was a pretty terrible businessman who only is rich cause Daddy left him a shit ton of money and he made a good reality TV villain.

Tank the economy is a very subjective statement.

The economy was already very fragile upon Bidens exit. You had two consecutive reports of increasing inflation and the 10 year yield was rising, peaking at 4.8%. Continuing on the path that we were on was simply not an option. Not very many people dispute this.

The stock market hates uncertainty? Maybe, but the uncertainty was going to come now or at some point in the future. I reitereate, we were not on a sustainable path and this is not disputed by most economist. Something had to change.

I, personally, believe we will grow back stronger than ever before. I just don't see how it doesn't happen. Freedom and capitalism will win. Donald Trump has America's best interest at heart. You only have to look at his previous term to know this is true.

Economic prosperity is right around the corner. Something had to be done.

 

[yoshi121374]

Tank the economy is a very subjective statement.

The economy was already very fragile upon Bidens exit. You had two consecutive reports of increasing inflation and the 10 year yield was rising, peaking at 4.8%. Continuing on the path that we were on was simply not an option. Not very many people dispute this.

The stock market hates uncertainty? Maybe, but the uncertainty was going to come now or at some point in the future. I reitereate, we were not on a sustainable path and this is not disputed by most economist. Something had to change.

I, personally, believe we will grow back stronger than ever before. I just don't see how it doesn't happen. Freedom and capitalism will win. Donald Trump has America's best interest at heart. You only have to look at his previous term to know this is true.

Economic prosperity is right around the corner. Something had to be done.

So you are saying that we had to tank our economy,hurt our closest economic neighbors, while we are in a delicate inflation situation, just cause it was gonna get bad someday?

I know you don't agree with this move. You know it's dumb, I know you do.

You also know it has nothing to do with Fentanyl or it wouldn't be about Canada.

I can't help but think this is one of those situations where Trump just wants to bully weaker people. It is his business philosophy and is pretty much the only tool in his startegic toolbox.

It also feels like a pretty bad idea strategically when we know he was elected primarily to fix the economy, and this move, at a minimum is going to hurt Americans in the short term.

I just don't get the strategy.

 

[CUTiger1977]

 

[fatpiggy]

So you are saying that we had to tank our economy,hurt our closest economic neighbors, while we are in a delicate inflation situation, just cause it was gonna get bad someday?

I know you don't agree with this move. You know it's dumb, I know you do.

You also know it has nothing to do with Fentanyl or it wouldn't be about Canada.

I can't help but think this is one of those situations where Trump just wants to bully weaker people. It is his business philosophy and is pretty much the only tool in his startegic toolbox.

It also feels like a pretty bad idea strategically when we know he was elected primarily to fix the economy, and this move, at a minimum is going to hurt Americans in the short term.

I just don't get the strategy.

If i was in charge of Government, I would do the exact same things as Trump is doing.

It's really simple, our expenses were way over our income. And i am smart enough to know that is paid for via inflation. And I didn't like it one bit.

We need a forest fire. I would prepare for volatility. The money must move to find the most efficient path under the new rules. There will be temporary dislocations. Those of us with good eyes, like yourself, will be able to profit off the dislocations while we help the capital be deployed to the appropriate places.

 

[yoshi121374]

If i was in charge of Government, I would do the exact same things as Trump is doing.

It's really simple, our expenses were way over our income. And i am smart enough to know that is paid for via inflation. And I didn't like it one bit.

We need a forest fire. I would prepare for volatility. The money must move to find the most efficient path under the new rules. There will be temporary dislocations. Those of us with good eyes, like yourself, will be able to profit off the dislocations while we help the capital be deployed to the appropriate places.

The problem is the millions of people who are going to be hurt in the process. You're right, I have the financial means, and hopefully time to weather the UPS and downs, but not many are that blessed.


As I've said, I think most Americans would agree that cost savings and waste reduction is important, but I don't see Tariffs will help anything. They hurt consumers as they beat the brunt of the cost increases.

Part of my concern is I don't have any confidence that Trump has an actual plan. It's hard not to see this as an attempt to learn ok tough. We know he doesn't like Trudeau, but calling him Governor is unnecessary and frankly imbecilic and childish.

 

[TigerGrowls]

Watch and learn. President Trump and his team will show everyone how its done. I have no doubt that the US economy will be in a much better place a year from now.

 

[dpic73]

Another angle on the tariffs.

When you have the power to impose the tariff you also have the power to remove the tariff. I posit that Canada and Mexico will wrap up securing their borders just before mid-terms. Trump removes their tariffs and stimulates the economy.

Another angle on your comment. If he waits until the mid-terms to lift the tariffs, the only way is up and lol at calling that stimulating the economy.

 

[Spencer_York]

I would argue it's because many people showed up at Mar A Lago with dead ones due to Fentanyl.

When he was campaigning he said he would stop it. He is trying to follow through on that promise. I think he wants the cartels gone. They have been causing too much damage for too long and the regular excuses are getting tired. The US military is stronger than the cartels and Trump knows it. He wants other countries to join him in taking it seriously. He knows that the drastic changes must come at the beginning of his term to give them time to work and see results before the next election.

I do sincerely believe he is trying to stop the flow of fentanyl. We have had hundreds of thousands of deaths in our country in the past couple of years. It is a real, legitimate, problem.

As Trudeau pointed out, Canada and the US already have joint drug enforcement stuff going on, including large investment from Canada. Fentanyl seizures dropped 97% from December to January to 0.03 pounds. Trump doesn't give a crap about fentanyl deaths. If he did he'd work with Mexico to shut down the flood of American guns going to the cartels

 

[Spencer_York]

Tank the economy is a very subjective statement.

The economy was already very fragile upon Bidens exit. You had two consecutive reports of increasing inflation and the 10 year yield was rising, peaking at 4.8%. Continuing on the path that we were on was simply not an option. Not very many people dispute this.

The stock market hates uncertainty? Maybe, but the uncertainty was going to come now or at some point in the future. I reitereate, we were not on a sustainable path and this is not disputed by most economist. Something had to change.

I, personally, believe we will grow back stronger than ever before. I just don't see how it doesn't happen. Freedom and capitalism will win. Donald Trump has America's best interest at heart. You only have to look at his previous term to know this is true.

Economic prosperity is right around the corner. Something had to be done.

The Biden economy was solid at the macro level. Inflation was down, GDP up, all that stuff. Was it perfect? No. But it is already getting worse under Trump and Musk and slapping 25% tariffs on our two closest allies and trading partners is going to be sending the economy the wrong way. The stock market has already seen all of its gains since the inauguration wiped out

 

[Spencer_York]

View embedded media

Tariffs don't put Americans first. It is complete idiocy to think these will help the average consumer

 

[Spencer_York]

If i was in charge of Government, I would do the exact same things as Trump is doing.

It's really simple, our expenses were way over our income. And i am smart enough to know that is paid for via inflation. And I didn't like it one bit.

We need a forest fire. I would prepare for volatility. The money must move to find the most efficient path under the new rules. There will be temporary dislocations. Those of us with good eyes, like yourself, will be able to profit off the dislocations while we help the capital be deployed to the appropriate places.

Trump has added Trillions to the deficit and his new tax plans/budget plans he wants Congress to pass will only add more. Expenses over income is meaningless for the United States government. We aren't a household. If you want to decrease costs then cut out the contractors and start having the government provide robust services itself

 

[dpic73]

Tariffs don't put Americans first. It is complete idiocy to think these will help the average consumer

In the meantime they'll look to new trading partners and they're already boycotting our products and started cancelling all US travel. There's no way this comes out in our favor.

 

[fatpiggy]

Another angle on your comment. If he waits until the mid-terms to lift the tariffs, the only way is up and lol at calling that stimulating the economy.

I agree that it would be a fake stimulation. But optics are important. And he would be able to sell it.

I don't agree with the tactic per say, but i do agree that it's best to implement your change immediately and drastically. Get everyone's attention that things are going to change and the old way was not working. Old habits are hard to break.

But at the risk of sounding like a broken record, Trump campaigned on all of this. Nothing is a surprise and this is what his voters want. As the kids say, give him time to cook. Vote him or the pubs out in 2 years if you don't like the results. I think the large majority will be pleased, but i have been wrong before.

 

[fatpiggy]

Trump has added Trillions to the deficit and his new tax plans/budget plans he wants Congress to pass will only add more. Expenses over income is meaningless for the United States government. We aren't a household. If you want to decrease costs then cut out the contractors and start having the government provide robust services itself

That's the whole problem. "It's meaningless in government."

It's an incorrect statement. It leads to inflation, paid for by responsible savers and consumers like myself.

I'd vote against the previous way 100% of the time.

 

[dpic73]

But at the risk of sounding like a broken record, Trump campaigned on all of this. Nothing is a surprise and this is what his voters want. As the kids say, give him time to cook. Vote him or the pubs out in 2 years if you don't like the results. I think the large majority will be pleased, but i have been wrong before.

Is it really what they wanted?

 

[Willence]

I don't get the reasoning behind the tariffs? They have been following the Trade agreement that they made with Trump during his first administration. They have been doing what was requested when he threatening a few weeks ago.

Why now, why our friends? Why are we breaking a trade agreement that he made?

It doesn't make any sense.

Canada has done a lot of this stuff to us over the years. Especially around dairy products. That being said, you're right there was an agreement the first term which was supposed to remedy some of that. I understand his frustration over the flow of drugs over the southern border but it's not nearly as bad over the northern border and besides, who the hell can police the largest border on earth between two nations?

rump has added Trillions to the deficit and his new tax plans/budget plans he wants Congress to pass will only add more. Expenses over income is meaningless for the United States government. We aren't a household. If you want to decrease costs then cut out the contractors and start having the government provide robust services itself

Tax cuts do not add to the deficit. Spending adds to the deficit. We spend too much. We already tax too much and we keep spending more anyway. This is ENTIRELY a spending problem. Not one ounce of it is a tax issue. In fact, we need to lower taxes more and cut corporate taxes entirely. That would really help get this country straight and also restore the actual, intended purpose of government.

 

[Spencer_York]

Canada has done a lot of this stuff to us over the years. Especially around dairy products. That being said, you're right there was an agreement the first term which was supposed to remedy some of that. I understand his frustration over the flow of drugs over the southern border but it's not nearly as bad over the northern border and besides, who the hell can police the largest border on earth between two nations?



Tax cuts do not add to the deficit. Spending adds to the deficit. We spend too much. We already tax too much and we keep spending more anyway. This is ENTIRELY a spending problem. Not one ounce of it is a tax issue. In fact, we need to lower taxes more and cut corporate taxes entirely. That would really help get this country straight and also restore the actual, intended purpose of government.

Libertarian, opinion disregarded on taxes. I think billionaires are sinful and shouldn't exist.

The flow of drugs is not worse over the northern border and on the whole canada is a valuable ally and trading partner

 

[Willence]

Libertarian, opinion disregarded on taxes. I think billionaires are sinful and shouldn't exist.

The flow of drugs is not worse over the northern border and on the whole canada is a valuable ally and trading partner

That's what I said. It's not nearly as bad over the northern border. Not even close. I also agree that Canada is a valuable ally and trading partner. It's also true that have abused that relationship many times through the years.

So you want to set a wealth cap and decide how much someone can have? Really? You do realize that almost all billionaires don't have a billion dollars in the bank, right? If a person creates a company, takes it public with a majority of shares and grows it into something fabulous which causes the stock to skyrocket while creating tons of jobs, millionaires and a great product; who the hell are we to decide that's not OK? You really think that? The net benefit of people like that to society is incalculable.

 

[Spencer_York]

That's what I said. It's not nearly as bad over the northern border. Not even close. I also agree that Canada is a valuable ally and trading partner. It's also true that have abused that relationship many times through the years.

So you want to set a wealth cap and decide how much someone can have? Really? You do realize that almost all billionaires don't have a billion dollars in the bank, right? If a person creates a company, takes it public with a majority of shares and grows it into something fabulous which causes the stock to skyrocket while creating tons of jobs, millionaires and a great product; who the hell are we to decide that's not OK? You really think that? The net benefit of people like that to society is incalculable.

Oh my bad on that first one. Mea Culpa.

Yes, being worth that much money means you're probably going to hell. It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven as the Good Lord said. There is a deep tradition in the Catholic faith of condemning riches, especially since they almost always involve exploiting others

 

[Spencer_York]

Trump already starting to walk back the tariffs. Masterful gambit sir!

 

[CUTiger1977]

 

[yoshi121374]

That's what I said. It's not nearly as bad over the northern border. Not even close. I also agree that Canada is a valuable ally and trading partner. It's also true that have abused that relationship many times through the years.

So you want to set a wealth cap and decide how much someone can have? Really? You do realize that almost all billionaires don't have a billion dollars in the bank, right? If a person creates a company, takes it public with a majority of shares and grows it into something fabulous which causes the stock to skyrocket while creating tons of jobs, millionaires and a great product; who the hell are we to decide that's not OK? You really think that? The net benefit of people like that to society is incalculable.

I'm probably.in between you guys. I believe in the importance of the ability to grow wealth and be rewarded for hard work, creating jobs etc.

I also think that there is a point where it's enough, I don't know how that's legislated, I don't even know if it's possible. I know it's pie in the sky idealism, but I think it's a huge issue in America and for many many people. At some point, what is the accumulated wealth actually for if it's never enough?

I have been really focused the last few years on experiences over things.

 

[UrHuckleberry]

Watch and learn. President Trump and his team will show everyone how its done. I have no doubt that the US economy will be in a much better place a year from now.

What will be the indicators for this?

 

[Spencer_York]

What will be the indicators for this?

"Ignore the unemployment numbers and the stock market, Our Brave Leader has declared we are winning"

 

[yoshi121374]

"Ignore the unemployment numbers and the stock market, Our Brave Leader has declared we are winning"

Exactly. It's whatever metric he claims proves he wins. It doesn't have to be true,or verifiable, or be from legitimate source. Just say he's winning.

 

[Willence]

Oh my bad on that first one. Mea Culpa.

Yes, being worth that much money means you're probably going to hell. It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven as the Good Lord said. There is a deep tradition in the Catholic faith of condemning riches, especially since they almost always involve exploiting others

That has nothing to do with what we're talking about. You acting as though a pie shouldn't exist because otherwise what you're saying is we can take the pie and divide it up more which means a lot more people will be rich and then everyone will go to hell. You can't just eliminate the pie because it already exists. The logic of what you're saying just doesn't play out. Also, in order to distribute said wealth, you need to have someone in charge of taking it. Those people are corrupt and horrible individuals in most cases. The belief that somehow limiting wealth make mankind better is a total non sequitur. So many of the companies people create have made the world an immensely better place. If they have stock in a company and it's super valuable then good for them. They made something great and they are helping a lot of people in the process. I don't see how that's a bad thing.

We are depraved as humans because we are fallen. It is only through Christ we can find a path to the Father. The Catholic church also has a deep tradition of a lot of nefarious things and engaging in all kinds of attacks on people of other faiths. Following Christ has been well down the list of things the Catholic church has done through the ages. Jesus never condemned wealth and there are tons of examples of people who gain it without exploiting people. That's a gross generalization and also it's more about power than money. In your preferred reality, you're just giving massive power to someone else. The abuses still remain as do all the really horrible things that come along with it.

 

[Willence]

Exactly. It's whatever metric he claims proves he wins. It doesn't have to be true,or verifiable, or be from legitimate source. Just say he's winning.

You also have to be fair. Employment numbers were massively inflated by the last administration. Also, the government was the leading "creator of jobs" in the last administration for a great number of months. It was a rigged system and it's blowing up on us now.

Also, the P/E ratio of the stock market overall is massively out of balance. We're going to have an adjustment and that has nothing to do with President Trump or his policies. I'll criticize him profusely on many things but this is something that's beyond his control to fix.

 

[Willence]

I'm probably.in between you guys. I believe in the importance of the ability to grow wealth and be rewarded for hard work, creating jobs etc.

I also think that there is a point where it's enough, I don't know how that's legislated, I don't even know if it's possible. I know it's pie in the sky idealism, but I think it's a huge issue in America and for many many people. At some point, what is the accumulated wealth actually for if it's never enough?

I have been really focused the last few years on experiences over things.

In principle, I think most of us would agree that some folks accumulate enough money that it's got to be enough. If you gave me what Tee Higgins is making next year, I'd call it a day and spend the rest of my life as a missionary and that's after giving probably half of it away.

That being said, I would urge you to consider thinking about it from a different angle. If you take someone like Elon Musk as an example. He's created a lot of great things. He does a lot for mankind. He doesn't actually have his billions. He has ownership in very valuable companies that he's worked tirelessly to create and build. In the process, he's provided great products, tremendous wealth to a lot of people and he's the primary source of income for tens of thousands of families. What's so wrong with that? If Tesla went out of business tomorrow, Musk would probably go under too. He's not sitting on this pile of money.

I worked for Chase a long time ago and at that time, they were a bank in decline. Jamie Dimon came onboard and he's turned that bank around. I'm not 100% sure about this but I think Chase is the largest bank in America now? They provide wealth for millions of Americans. He gets paid an absurd amount of money and it does bother me how much it is but then, he also took something that was not growing and led it to great heights and tremendous prosperity. How is that a bad thing?