SCOTUS Chevron Ruling
- Thread starter TigerGrowls
- Start date
Are you really this stupid? Apparently you are.
How about, let's just ignore the laws that are already on the books. Your friends do this every day.
You will find out soon enough. You're just too stupid to know.
Another great benefit of this decision.
CLEARING UP A MISCONCEPTION:
The federal government from the outside may appear to be one monolithic Leviathan.
On the inside, it's dozens of agencies all competing viciously with each other for funding.
When Chevron hit 40 years ago, it literally changed the game as to how federal agencies were funded.
All of a sudden, a MASSIVE NEW REVENUE STREAM opened up: enforcement agencies like the IRS, EPA, the ATF, etc. were now going to be allowed to WRITE THEIR OWN LAWS and ENFORCE THEM WITH FINES.
And any fine money these federal agencies extracted, they DID NOT HAVE TO SHARE IT with the other agencies.
That is, if the EPA extracted 3 billion in fines from US businesses in a fiscal year, they didn't have to put that money in a general fund for the entire federal government. MOST OF THAT WAS THE EPA's MONEY.
They didn't have to share it.
So since Chevron hit 40 years ago, a key part of any prospective federal agency head's job has been this:
How good are you going to be at fining targets, getting the money, and investing it back into the agency?
And the correct response from anyone interviewing to be put in charge of the EPA, IRS, ATF, etc. for the last 40 years has been THIS:
"Oh man...you have NO IDEA just how GOOD I'm going to be at making money for this agency...I am going to be just AWESOME at leading to the writing of new rules/laws/regulations that will allow us to extract MAXIMUM CASH from any Americans we target with our fines!"
THEY NEVER HID THAT THEY WERE DOING THIS.
Chevron gave them the cover for this behavior. So they did it right out in the open.
And now?
Now they can't.
Do it out in the open.
And this is going to be highly problematic for them in a 2nd Trump term, if he gets back in the White House and stocks a DOJ full of people who will not only enforce this SCOTUS decision overturning Chevron, they will FINE THE FEDERAL AGENCIES if they get caught trying to do business as usual by hitting US businesses with fines that are now deemed illegal.
CLEARING UP A MISCONCEPTION:
The federal government from the outside may appear to be one monolithic Leviathan.
On the inside, it's dozens of agencies all competing viciously with each other for funding.
When Chevron hit 40 years ago, it literally changed the game as to how federal agencies were funded.
All of a sudden, a MASSIVE NEW REVENUE STREAM opened up: enforcement agencies like the IRS, EPA, the ATF, etc. were now going to be allowed to WRITE THEIR OWN LAWS and ENFORCE THEM WITH FINES.
And any fine money these federal agencies extracted, they DID NOT HAVE TO SHARE IT with the other agencies.
That is, if the EPA extracted 3 billion in fines from US businesses in a fiscal year, they didn't have to put that money in a general fund for the entire federal government. MOST OF THAT WAS THE EPA's MONEY.
They didn't have to share it.
So since Chevron hit 40 years ago, a key part of any prospective federal agency head's job has been this:
How good are you going to be at fining targets, getting the money, and investing it back into the agency?
And the correct response from anyone interviewing to be put in charge of the EPA, IRS, ATF, etc. for the last 40 years has been THIS:
"Oh man...you have NO IDEA just how GOOD I'm going to be at making money for this agency...I am going to be just AWESOME at leading to the writing of new rules/laws/regulations that will allow us to extract MAXIMUM CASH from any Americans we target with our fines!"
THEY NEVER HID THAT THEY WERE DOING THIS.
Chevron gave them the cover for this behavior. So they did it right out in the open.
And now?
Now they can't.
Do it out in the open.
And this is going to be highly problematic for them in a 2nd Trump term, if he gets back in the White House and stocks a DOJ full of people who will not only enforce this SCOTUS decision overturning Chevron, they will FINE THE FEDERAL AGENCIES if they get caught trying to do business as usual by hitting US businesses with fines that are now deemed illegal.
Great example.
For those who don't understand what Chevron Deference is, and why SCOTUS ended it, here's the long and short of it:
A family fishing company, Loper Bright Enterprises, was being driven out of business, because they couldn't afford the $700 per day they were being charged by the National Marine Fisheries Service to monitor their company.
The thing is, federal law doesn't authorize NMFS to charge businesses for this. They just decided to start doing it in 2013.
Why did they think they could away with just charging people without any legal authorization?
Because in 1984, in the Chevron decision, the Supreme Court decided that regulatory agencies were the "experts" in their field, and the courts should just defer to their "interpretation" of the law.
So for the past 40 years, federal agencies have been able to "interpret" laws to mean whatever they want, and the courts had to just go with it.
It was called Chevron Deference, and it put bureaucrats in charge of the country.
It's how the OHSA was able to decide that everyone who worked for a large company had to get the jab, or be fired.
No law gave them that authority, they just made it up.
It's how the ATF was able to decide a piece of plastic was a "machine gun".
It's how the NCRS was able to decide that a small puddle was a "protected wetlands".
It's how out-of-control agencies have been able to create rules out of thin air, and force you to comply, and the courts had to simply defer to them, because they were the "experts".
Imagine if your local police could just arrest you, for any reason, and no judge or jury was allowed to determine if you'd actually committed a crime or not. Just off to jail you go.
That's what Chevron Deference was.
It was not only blatantly unconstitutional, it caused immeasurable harm to everyone.
Thankfully, it's now gone.
We haven't even begun to feel the effects of this decision in the courts. It will be used, for years to come, to roll back federal agencies, and we'll all be better of for it.
And that's why politicians and corporate media are freaking out about it.
For those who don't understand what Chevron Deference is, and why SCOTUS ended it, here's the long and short of it:
A family fishing company, Loper Bright Enterprises, was being driven out of business, because they couldn't afford the $700 per day they were being charged by the National Marine Fisheries Service to monitor their company.
The thing is, federal law doesn't authorize NMFS to charge businesses for this. They just decided to start doing it in 2013.
Why did they think they could away with just charging people without any legal authorization?
Because in 1984, in the Chevron decision, the Supreme Court decided that regulatory agencies were the "experts" in their field, and the courts should just defer to their "interpretation" of the law.
So for the past 40 years, federal agencies have been able to "interpret" laws to mean whatever they want, and the courts had to just go with it.
It was called Chevron Deference, and it put bureaucrats in charge of the country.
It's how the OHSA was able to decide that everyone who worked for a large company had to get the jab, or be fired.
No law gave them that authority, they just made it up.
It's how the ATF was able to decide a piece of plastic was a "machine gun".
It's how the NCRS was able to decide that a small puddle was a "protected wetlands".
It's how out-of-control agencies have been able to create rules out of thin air, and force you to comply, and the courts had to simply defer to them, because they were the "experts".
Imagine if your local police could just arrest you, for any reason, and no judge or jury was allowed to determine if you'd actually committed a crime or not. Just off to jail you go.
That's what Chevron Deference was.
It was not only blatantly unconstitutional, it caused immeasurable harm to everyone.
Thankfully, it's now gone.
We haven't even begun to feel the effects of this decision in the courts. It will be used, for years to come, to roll back federal agencies, and we'll all be better of for it.
And that's why politicians and corporate media are freaking out about it.
Interesting.
What members are you referring to and why do you think that?
It's an interesting theory, but they have lifetime tenure and they answer to no one.
Another real world example of what this ruling effects. The govt edict on wood burning stoves and other stuff will be out the window too I am assuming.
Joe Biden’s EPA Administrator unveiled a new rule this year that ALL VEHICLES sold in the U.S. Must be Electric or Hybrid by 2032.
Too bad the CHEVRON DEFERENCE was Overturned…—— which means any rule or regulation put forward by any federal agency (such as the EPA) can be litigated.
The EPA is powerless lolToo bad West Virginia vs EPA, & Ohio v. EPA stopped this kind of Shit dead in its tracks…I hope everyone realizes that Donald Trumps SCOTUS picks literally saved this country…
Joe Biden’s EPA Administrator unveiled a new rule this year that ALL VEHICLES sold in the U.S. Must be Electric or Hybrid by 2032.
Too bad the CHEVRON DEFERENCE was Overturned…—— which means any rule or regulation put forward by any federal agency (such as the EPA) can be litigated.
The EPA is powerless lolToo bad West Virginia vs EPA, & Ohio v. EPA stopped this kind of Shit dead in its tracks…I hope everyone realizes that Donald Trumps SCOTUS picks literally saved this country…
Couple of things to unpack here.
First, you bring up some really good points, but I can only speak directly to the paragraphs above as they relate to Environmental Regulations. Having worked in many different states & dealt with many environmental regulatory agencies (from former classmates who worked at DHEC to USEPA Region 9 on Guam), I can say candidly, that neither the best, nor the brightest, nor the hardest working go to become environmental agency staff/bureaucrats. It's "a calling" for many of them and it's not a calling where they feel compelled to balance environmental protection with economic factors. That's partly a function of the low pay and other less desirable factors associated with regulatory agency employment.
It's a good fit for some, and they are very good at it, but that's not the norm...and I say that after a 35-year career, all in environmental. They almost universally lack first-hand, field experience about the subject matter area which leads them to uninformed decisions. But that doesn't stop them because they get that "agency deference"...In my experience, is has been the cause of significant regulatory overreach, especially in some states (ahem).
On highly technical issues, sure, I want input from someone with technical credentials; but for a lot of the interpretation, I found it better to team with a legal professional to assist in that interpretation. Far too often, too much power/authority was given to underqualified/under-experienced staff & lower-level managers to interpret. And you can only imagine what that's like out here. I spent the last 10 years of my career in Corporate Environmental Policy, functioning as a liaison with many CA agencies trying to get bureaucrats and industry people to work together in order to get critical infrastructure built (or taken down, in the case of a retired nuclear power plant).
Elon will sell cars because he has a great product rather than benefitting from govt edicts. Let the market dictate the speed of conversion to electric.
I know it's not in effect currently but is absolutely proposed and in the planning stages for delayed activation.
The only reason the company exists is handouts from a government agency. He’s admitted as much himself. His stock is as low as it’s been in forever and their growth slows every quarter. Keep your head in the sand.
Yes they were major
If Trump wins this election the SCOTUS will move further conservative
You can think they were important and still think saying “literally saved our country” was dramatic
The decision pushes the government of the USA back into the legislative branch instead of the creep age of the deep state administrative creep where life time unelected employees make major decisions without Congressional approval.
pushing the laws back to Congress is a great thing
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