Seriously, how can anyone support this?

[TigerGrowls]

It's an invasion facilitated by traitors from within.



Fox News is exclusively reporting that the FBI assesses that some Venezuelan government officials "likely facilitate" the migration of members of the violent gang Tren de Aragua from Venezuela to the United States to advance the Maduro regime’s objective of undermining public safety.

Unclassified portions of the assessment were shared with Fox that warn that in the next six to 18 months, Venezuelan government officials likely will attempt to leverage Tren de Aragua members in the United States as proxy actors to threaten, abduct and kill members of the Venezuelan diaspora in the United States who are vocal critics of Maduro and his regime.

This is in line with what Former CIA officer Gary Berntsen told the Miami Herold last month.

 

[TigerGrowls]

 

[MTTiger19]

An illegal who crossed our border in 2021 raped a 13 year old boy yesterday in Florida. I hope he gets due process.

 

[WapPride]

As grotesque as the crime is, yes you should hope he gets due process. Just because you yearn for authoritarianism doesn’t mean it’s the best for the country. It’s wild how quickly MAGAs went from “Masks are tyranny!” To “yes daddy please deport and arrest people without due process.”

 

[MTTiger19]

As grotesque as the crime is, yes you should hope he gets due process. Just because you yearn for authoritarianism doesn’t mean it’s the best for the country. It’s wild how quickly MAGAs went from “Masks are tyranny!” To “yes daddy please deport and arrest people without due process.”

I’ll assume this was directed at me. My point was he’s still here, four full years after he invaded and now he’s raping little kids. I need to dig a little deeper but I was looking at Obamas administration and it appears they deported thousands without due process. We know for a fact that drone bombed American citizens and murdered them without due process as well. Be honest, were you screaming about that then too? My guess is you’ll say you were but I have a very hard time with that maybe you have a record.

 

[WapPride]

I’ll assume this was directed at me. My point was he’s still here, four full years after he invaded and now he’s raping little kids. I need to dig a little deeper but I was looking at Obamas administration and it appears they deported thousands without due process. We know for a fact that drone bombed American citizens and murdered them without due process as well. Be honest, were you screaming about that then too? My guess is you’ll say you were but I have a very hard time with that maybe you have a record.

Yes I had a huge problem with Obama’s deporter in chief and indiscriminate bombing. I wasn’t posting here during his presidency otherwise I’d have probably complained about it.

had he committed any crimes in the past 4 years which would’ve brought him under scrutiny of the law or was he just flying under the radar? I’m genuinely curious as I’m not familiar with the case

 

[MTTiger19]

Yes I had a huge problem with Obama’s deporter in chief and indiscriminate bombing. I wasn’t posting here during his presidency otherwise I’d have probably complained about it.

had he committed any crimes in the past 4 years which would’ve brought him under scrutiny of the law or was he just flying under the radar? I’m genuinely curious as I’m not familiar with the case

Nor am I as I mentioned in my post, I’d like to research it more but time is linited. I appreciate the response and consistency. I would assume there’s a lot on this board clamoring for due process but sat on their hands when Obama was crushing constitutional rights all over the country. It’s important to compare the reactions as that gives better insight to the argument, do they really care or is this another maga bad thing.

 

[WapPride]

Nor am I as I mentioned in my post, I’d like to research it more but time is linited. I appreciate the response and consistency. I would assume there’s a lot on this board clamoring for due process but sat on their hands when Obama was crushing constitutional rights all over the country. It’s important to compare the reactions as that gives better insight to the argument, do they really care or is this another maga bad thing.

To further this, I never voted for Obama, nor did many of the "libs" posting on here currently. The overwhelming majority of "libs" here are former republicans who are disgusted with Trump and decided not to vote R in 2016 and beyond because they don't like the direction the party is heading in. I wouldn't disagree I've likely gotten more liberal over the last 10 years as I've learned more and educated myself on topics, but for the most part I don't believe my belief structure has changed too drastically. Hell, the first time I ever voted blue was in 2018 for a local election and then 2020 for Biden on the national scale.

 

[fatpiggy]

As grotesque as the crime is, yes you should hope he gets due process. Just because you yearn for authoritarianism doesn’t mean it’s the best for the country. It’s wild how quickly MAGAs went from “Masks are tyranny!” To “yes daddy please deport and arrest people without due process.”

Masks were the stupidest policy in history. What a bunch of assholes

 

[MTTiger19]

To further this, I never voted for Obama, nor did many of the "libs" posting on here currently. The overwhelming majority of "libs" here are former republicans who are disgusted with Trump and decided not to vote R in 2016 and beyond because they don't like the direction the party is heading in. I wouldn't disagree I've likely gotten more liberal over the last 10 years as I've learned more and educated myself on topics, but for the most part I don't believe my belief structure has changed too drastically. Hell, the first time I ever voted blue was in 2018 for a local election and then 2020 for Biden on the national scale.

Genuinely curious, aside from the bluster and obvious shit talking, what didn’t you like about Trump in 16? I was so thrilled to have someone that didn’t sound like a robot reading lobbyist talking points, I thought he could break the club up in DC, I thought he would hold people accountable, etc. In all fairness, I was disappointed, I didn’t really understand the complexity of DC and how entrenched the bureaucracy was and how compromised our judicial system is. I still have hope that we can break our slave chains from the government but it’s looking less likely.

 

[WapPride]

Genuinely curious, aside from the bluster and obvious shit talking, what didn’t you like about Trump in 16? I was so thrilled to have someone that didn’t sound like a robot reading lobbyist talking points, I thought he could break the club up in DC, I thought he would hold people accountable, etc. In all fairness, I was disappointed, I didn’t really understand the complexity of DC and how entrenched the bureaucracy was and how compromised our judicial system is. I still have hope that we can break our slave chains from the government but it’s looking less likely.

Admittedly, it started out mainly due to his brashness and crude behavior. Then I started listening to his speeches and it became apparent he doesn't really know what he's talking about...he just goes up on stage and bullshits. He lacked, and still does imo, the ability to intelligently explain his strategy and policy goals. The debates became less about policy discussion and more about soundbites and jabs to make headlines. That's not to say that didn't occur prior to 2016, but I used to really enjoy listening to Presidential nominees speak intelligently about how they would enact their plans, how those plans would benefit the general populace, and the issues with their opponents strategies.

The fact is, I found him to be a bullshit con-artist that appealed to the lowest common denominator. I completely agree that DC bureaucracy has gotten too incestuous and corrupt, and there is a major schism in this country that is only widening between the haves and have nots. I also agree that the media apparatus in this country has become bastardized from its original purpose of sharing unbiased news to a medium solely focused on generating profits. I don't believe every media apparatus is like that - I think there are still great investigative journalists out there that are focused on sharing the truth. However, it's all moot because there's like 2 families that own all of the major media in the country, and they only care about increasing profits and keeping people divided.

 

[UrHuckleberry]

Admittedly, it started out mainly due to his brashness and crude behavior. Then I started listening to his speeches and it became apparent he doesn't really know what he's talking about...he just goes up on stage and bullshits. He lacked, and still does imo, the ability to intelligently explain his strategy and policy goals. The debates became less about policy discussion and more about soundbites and jabs to make headlines. That's not to say that didn't occur prior to 2016, but I used to really enjoy listening to Presidential nominees speak intelligently about how they would enact their plans, how those plans would benefit the general populace, and the issues with their opponents strategies.

The fact is, I found him to be a bullshit con-artist that appealed to the lowest common denominator. I completely agree that DC bureaucracy has gotten too incestuous and corrupt, and there is a major schism in this country that is only widening between the haves and have nots. I also agree that the media apparatus in this country has become bastardized from its original purpose of sharing unbiased news to a medium solely focused on generating profits. I don't believe every media apparatus is like that - I think there are still great investigative journalists out there that are focused on sharing the truth. However, it's all moot because there's like 2 families that own all of the major media in the country, and they only care about increasing profits and keeping people divided.

Well stated

 

[TigerGrowls]

As grotesque as the crime is, yes you should hope he gets due process. Just because you yearn for authoritarianism doesn’t mean it’s the best for the country. It’s wild how quickly MAGAs went from “Masks are tyranny!” To “yes daddy please deport and arrest people without due process.”

Illegals are not given full constitutional rights and that will be confirmed before this is over. The constitution is for Americans but not everyone in the world.

 

[MTTiger19]

Admittedly, it started out mainly due to his brashness and crude behavior. Then I started listening to his speeches and it became apparent he doesn't really know what he's talking about...he just goes up on stage and bullshits. He lacked, and still does imo, the ability to intelligently explain his strategy and policy goals. The debates became less about policy discussion and more about soundbites and jabs to make headlines. That's not to say that didn't occur prior to 2016, but I used to really enjoy listening to Presidential nominees speak intelligently about how they would enact their plans, how those plans would benefit the general populace, and the issues with their opponents strategies.

The fact is, I found him to be a bullshit con-artist that appealed to the lowest common denominator. I completely agree that DC bureaucracy has gotten too incestuous and corrupt, and there is a major schism in this country that is only widening between the haves and have nots. I also agree that the media apparatus in this country has become bastardized from its original purpose of sharing unbiased news to a medium solely focused on generating profits. I don't believe every media apparatus is like that - I think there are still great investigative journalists out there that are focused on sharing the truth. However, it's all moot because there's like 2 families that own all of the major media in the country, and they only care about increasing profits and keeping people divided.

Mostly reasonable takes. Maybe over simplified take on sound bite talking points as all politicians are guilty. AOC and Bernie are the worst. But if you do believe there’s trouble in DC he’s the guy, not Kamala or Joe or Tim. I can agree with some of your points about him but he was the best option. We would be in serious trouble with Harris. She’s dumber than Trump. And you may not approve of all of them but he’s done a pretty good job on cabinet picks. I was willing to have a guy that talked shit vs someone who I felt would get destroyed internationally. We had zero respect internationally after Biden and that would have continued and gotten worse. I’m not referring to civil rights, more so the weak policies on free speech and open borders. Trump is now tying his tariffs to promoting free speech in the EU, that’s genius. A big reason you saw the border get controlled is those illegals are more cautious with Trump bc they fear he will deport them and that’s not a bad thing. We need to make sure we aren’t incentivizing law breakers. Biden administration did that. They actively promoted breaking our immigration laws and actively refused to enforce those laws which turned into record numbers of immigrants attempting to get in. It’s not that difficult to figure out and I’m sure you know that as well.

 

[MTTiger19]

Illegals are not given full constitutional rights and that will be confirmed before this is over. The constitution is for Americans but not everyone in the world.

I would say people that are here legally are given constitutional rights. We can most likely agree there, but invaders don’t get it. We wouldn’t give a foreign soldier that was raping children due process I don’t think. @WapPride how would a foreign soldier that invaded unknowingly be treated out of curiosity? Would they technically still have constitutional protections?

 

[TigerGrowls]

Mostly reasonable takes. Maybe over simplified take on sound bite talking points as all politicians are guilty. AOC and Bernie are the worst. But if you do believe there’s trouble in DC he’s the guy, not Kamala or Joe or Tim. I can agree with some of your points about him but he was the best option. We would be in serious trouble with Harris. She’s dumber than Trump. And you may not approve of all of them but he’s done a pretty good job on cabinet picks. I was willing to have a guy that talked shit vs someone who I felt would get destroyed internationally. We had zero respect internationally after Biden and that would have continued and gotten worse. I’m not referring to civil rights, more so the weak policies on free speech and open borders. Trump is now tying his tariffs to promoting free speech in the EU, that’s genius. A big reason you saw the border get controlled is those illegals are more cautious with Trump bc they fear he will deport them and that’s not a bad thing. We need to make sure we aren’t incentivizing law breakers. Biden administration did that. They actively promoted breaking our immigration laws and actively refused to enforce those laws which turned into record numbers of immigrants attempting to get in. It’s not that difficult to figure out and I’m sure you know that as well.

It sounds like BS to me. @WapPride might have been a stodgy establishment republican at best. Honorary member of the Lincoln Project.

 

[MTTiger19]

It sounds like BS to me. @WapPride might have been a stodgy establishment republican at best. Honorary member of the Lincoln Project.

Let’s take him at his word. No reason to think otherwise. I would think a lot of folks are kinda on the fence with that. Hopefully we can bring more people together by finding compromise on some of these social issues.

 

[TigerGrowls]

Let’s take him at his word. No reason to think otherwise. I would think a lot of folks are kinda on the fence with that. Hopefully we can bring more people together by finding compromise on some of these social issues.

Would be nice. History on this board for 8 years tells me it's not possible. When the viewpoints are this far apart there is no meeting in the middle.

 

[fatpiggy]

Yes I had a huge problem with Obama’s deporter in chief and indiscriminate bombing. I wasn’t posting here during his presidency otherwise I’d have probably complained about it.

had he committed any crimes in the past 4 years which would’ve brought him under scrutiny of the law or was he just flying under the radar? I’m genuinely curious as I’m not familiar with the case

Quite frankly it doesn't matter.

Illegals are counted in the census. If they weren't democrats would lose ~18 seats in the house.

And now we can't remove them after democrats left the door wide open?

I have changed my mind and now support deporting all illegals, even if they have done nothing wrong. They gotta go, it's cheating the system and judicial tyranny is depressing the will of the voters. This is a threat to democracy!

I think you will see a shift towards MAGA's supporting deporting all illegals soon, not just ones who have committed crimes.

 

[TigerGrowls]

I think you will see a shift towards MAGA's supporting deporting all illegals soon, not just ones who have committed crimes.

Oh yes!!!

 

[WapPride]

I would say people that are here legally are given constitutional rights. We can most likely agree there, but invaders don’t get it. We wouldn’t give a foreign soldier that was raping children due process I don’t think. @WapPride how would a foreign soldier that invaded unknowingly be treated out of curiosity? Would they technically still have constitutional protections?

Yes, for the most part. Under the MCA these individuals would be tried as part of a specific military tribunal - assuming we're officially declared at war. When it was first signed into law in '06, iirc, it suspended habeas corpus for enemy combatants, but the SC struck that provision down as a violation of the constitution. If we are not in a state of war, and a foreign soldier was caught on our soil, then he would undoubtedly be afforded the same rights as any other person. It becomes tricky when accusations of espionage are thrown in the mix, especially if classified information is involved. This is all a little out of my expertise so I may be missing some information.

 

[UrHuckleberry]

Illegals are not given full constitutional rights and that will be confirmed before this is over. The constitution is for Americans but not everyone in the world.

Can you point me to where anyone has said they should be given full constitutional rights? Or that the constitution is for everyone in the world?

 

[fatpiggy]

Oh yes!!!

It's a super hard subject. I wouldn't be surprised if illegals do my yard. I don't want to ask. I have a heart.

But judicial tyrrany cannot be the way of our land.

We The People Own this country. Not the government. We spoke loud and clear.

Trump ran on the largest deportation force in history and won in a landslide.

Something must change. This is not democracy.

 

[TigerGrowls]

Can you point me to where anyone has said they should be given full constitutional rights? Or that the constitution is for everyone in the world?

The democrat party.

 

[WapPride]

Illegals are not given full constitutional rights and that will be confirmed before this is over. The constitution is for Americans but not everyone in the world.

Quick question - how do you intend to prove your citizenship if you are picked up by law enforcement and aren't afforded the right to prove you're here legally/are a citizen? There have been instances this very year of ICE picking up people and disregarding their federally issued IDs showing they're citizens/legal immigrants. This is why due process is so important - it prevents the unlawful expulsion of persons in the US by allowing them to prove their citizenship/legal status in court.

 

[UrHuckleberry]

The democrat party.

Can you point me to a quote?

 

[TigerGrowls]

Quick question - how do you intend to prove your citizenship if you are picked up by law enforcement and aren't afforded the right to prove you're here legally/are a citizen? There have been instances this very year of ICE picking up people and disregarding their federally issued IDs showing they're citizens/legal immigrants. This is why due process is so important - it prevents the unlawful expulsion of persons in the US by allowing them to prove their citizenship/legal status in court.

Reported instances from hostile liberal media. I choose to trust that Tom Hohman, Kristi Noem and the rest will get it right.

 

[TigerGrowls]

Can you point me to a quote?

Lots of quotes in this this thread related to the Maryland man.

 

[WapPride]

Reported instances from hostile liberal media. I choose to trust that Tom Hohman, Kristi Noem and the rest will get it right.

It must be riveting to go through life completely dismissing anything you don't want to believe because it challenges your world view. Ok, and when the courts ruled a week ago that the legal citizens had to be released was that also fake news?

 

[UrHuckleberry]

Lots of quotes in this this thread related to the Maryland man.

That say he is afford full constitutionals rights and/or that it applies to everyone in the world? Call me out using this very thread please.

 

[fatpiggy]

Down goes another one

Judge Hannah Dugan arrested by FBI for allegedly helping undocumented immigrant 'evade arrest'

A Milwaukee County circuit judge has been arrested by the FBI over allegedly helping an undocumented immigrant "evade arrest," according to FBI Director Kash Patel.

abcnews.go.com

 

[yoshi121374]

Genuinely curious, aside from the bluster and obvious shit talking, what didn’t you like about Trump in 16? I was so thrilled to have someone that didn’t sound like a robot reading lobbyist talking points, I thought he could break the club up in DC, I thought he would hold people accountable, etc. In all fairness, I was disappointed, I didn’t really understand the complexity of DC and how entrenched the bureaucracy was and how compromised our judicial system is. I still have hope that we can break our slave chains from the government but it’s looking less likely.

He's a scumbag who bankrupted casinos. Only thing he actually ever accomplished was convincing people of his greatness. Presidents words have massive world wide impact, Trump has zero ability to keep his mouth shut. Its always about him.


Thats why I didn't want to elect him

 

[MTTiger19]

He's a scumbag who bankrupted casinos. Only thing he actually ever accomplished was convincing people of his greatness. Presidents words have massive world wide impact, Trump has zero ability to keep his mouth shut. Its always about him.


Thats why I didn't want to elect him

This isn’t nearly as composed as I had hoped. You don’t think Obama was divisive? I hated that guy but I at least tried to listen to what he was saying. He did some good things but he’s a liar too. That guy literally killed thousands with drones (some with no due process where applicable) and there was nowhere near the contempt. He was still perpetuating the “very fine people” hoax, despite multiple debunks, as recent as November. He’s a complete fraud.

 

[UrHuckleberry]

Down goes another one

Judge Hannah Dugan arrested by FBI for allegedly helping undocumented immigrant 'evade arrest'

A Milwaukee County circuit judge has been arrested by the FBI over allegedly helping an undocumented immigrant "evade arrest," according to FBI Director Kash Patel.

abcnews.go.com

If judges break the law, they should face the consequences same as everyone else.

 

[yoshi121374]

This isn’t nearly as composed as I had hoped. You don’t think Obama was divisive? I hated that guy but I at least tried to listen to what he was saying. He did some good things but he’s a liar too. That guy literally killed thousands with drones (some with no due process where applicable) and there was nowhere near the contempt. He was still perpetuating the “very fine people” hoax, despite multiple debunks, as recent as November. He’s a complete fraud.

The difference is that Trump is a fully documented scumbag, and has been for 40 years of public life. This is a dude who cheated on his pregnant wife with a prob star.

Dude hasn't met a women he didn't cheat on.

I just expect my President to act Presidential. Presidents dont have the privilege of making "off the cuff" statements. As evidenced by the last month, comments and action like that have huge impacts on financial markets, worldwide pricing, tax revenue etc.

His lack of any self control is a massive issue and One I'm not OK with.

 

[MTTiger19]

The difference is that Trump is a fully documented scumbag, and has been for 40 years of public life. This is a dude who cheated on his pregnant wife with a prob star.

Dude hasn't met a women he didn't cheat on.

I just expect my President to act Presidential. Presidents dont have the privilege of making "off the cuff" statements. As evidenced by the last month, comments and action like that have huge impacts on financial markets, worldwide pricing, tax revenue etc.

His lack of any self control is a massive issue and One I'm not OK with.

All that is most likely true.

 

[yoshi121374]

All that is most likely true.

Its honestly not even debatable.

Trump is a fraud. The emperor has no clothes. He's a loudmouth rich kid who started between 3rd and home plate in life.

He has treated people abominably.

When you ask most MAGAs, while they like Trump it's a few different vague stuff, but for most it's some variation of "He tells it like it is"

He has fooled people into thinking lots of bluster and lots of words are equivalent to truth or knowledge. If you can force yourself, listen to his speeches for actual substance and ask yourself if you want to work for that guy.

 

[fatpiggy]

He's a scumbag who bankrupted casinos. Only thing he actually ever accomplished was convincing people of his greatness. Presidents words have massive world wide impact, Trump has zero ability to keep his mouth shut. Its always about him.


Thats why I didn't want to elect him

Oh no he went bankrupt on one business venture!

Failure is OK. Do you know what % of business startups fail? 50% of businesses fail within 5 years.

I really think the democratic attitude and cancel culture is causing our society to become too risk averse. Peter Thiel makes an excellent point. Elon is an animal or the rest of us are too risk averse. I'd like to think it is somewhere in between.

Teach you kids that it is OK to fail. When you fail, get back up and dust yourself off. You might be president one day.

 

[UrHuckleberry]

All that is most likely true.

Honestly, some of my biggest issues with the current MAGA movement is that in different areas, I actually agree with some different points that I could absolutely get behind, but I think the "champions" chosen I can't get behind and so fully disagree with other things, that it actually pisses me off because the things I agree with get thrown out with the bath water basically in public discourse.

Case in point, I like a lot of what RFKJr has said about rehab, and getting additives out of food, etc. But then I so fully disagree with a lot of the other things and just think he is such a poor champion for the type of things, that in some ways it actually hurts. DOGE is another one. I actually agree with trying to get leaner, working on efficiencies, and rooting out fraud. But by constantly playing political football, making decisions before researching, throwing around fraud on things that aren't at all fraud, and shooting out screenshots before the information behind the screenshot is even known or understood, is ruining the actual movement to get the actual goals accomplished.

 

[fatpiggy]

Honestly, some of my biggest issues with the current MAGA movement is that in different areas, I actually agree with some different points that I could absolutely get behind, but I think the "champions" chosen I can't get behind and so fully disagree with other things, that it actually pisses me off because the things I agree with get thrown out with the bath water basically in public discourse.

Case in point, I like a lot of what RFKJr has said about rehab, and getting additives out of food, etc. But then I so fully disagree with a lot of the other things and just think he is such a poor champion for the type of things, that in some ways it actually hurts. DOGE is another one. I actually agree with trying to get leaner, working on efficiencies, and rooting out fraud. But by constantly playing political football, making decisions before researching, throwing around fraud on things that aren't at all fraud, and shooting out screenshots before the information behind the screenshot is even known or understood, is ruining the actual movement to get the actual goals accomplished.

Are you mad that we are doing it our way, or are you mad that democrats elected such a weak leader that they made no effort, at all, to do the things that you agree with?

"I like the things Trump is doing, but disagree with the way he is doing it."

The judicial tyranny is exactly why Trump does it the way he does it. No one has ever shown a willingness to work with him, DESPITE THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE.

No one, other than Trump could have ushered in these changes. Nikki Haley? LOL. Joe Biden? He had his chance. AOC? Puppet of the deep state.

Trump was the disruptor. The agent of change. It's the only way some of this long standing corruption will be flushed from our country.