Interesting, I’m glad the treatment has worked for his patients. Certainly gives some hope, but I can understand the general apprehension to using it as a primary treatment plan.
I appreciate your optimism, but there isn't enough data to point to any of that. At this point SC is testing about 2000 to 2300 people a day and that is in my opinion incredibly low. Pandemic response is all about the data and states like SC are just not testing enough to be able to make any definitive statements about opening the country back up.
I think it's because he's A. listening to Rudy Giuliani, Laura Ingram, and Dr. Oz instead of Dr. Fauci and the ACA. And B. He knows we screwed this entire crisis up so badly that he's desperate for a Hail Mary to save him.
Trump COVID Timeline
Trump's Hail Mary Drug Push Rattles His Health Team
You're quoting a hard-right conspiracy theorist "investor" as your source for medical information? While you are questioning a certified doctor?
Man, you really must be a Trump apologist!
This is 100% False:
AMA President: "You Could Lose Your Life." - After Trump asks "what do you have to lose" by taking these drugs, the head of the AMA - the NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF DOCTORS - says: “you could lose your life, it’s unproven.”
Ignoring Expert Opinion, Trump Again Promotes Hydrochloroquine - "Dr. Fauci had privately challenged rising optimism about the drug’s efficacy during a meeting of the coronavirus task force in the White House’s Situation Room"
Paper That Triggered Trump Obsession With Chloroquine Retracted Because it "Does Not Meet Standard Of Ensuring Patient Safety."
First Random Control Trial Shows Chloroquine "Not Effective" For COVID
Swedish Hospitals Stop Using Chloroquine After Reports of Severe Side Effects
Trump's Hail Mary Drug Push Rattles His Health Team: Trump's Hail Mary Drug Push Rattles His Health Team: "Top health official are increasingly unsettled” by Trump’s continue championing of hydroxychloroquine and that Trump and many of his “political advisers within the White House are trying to overrule scientific experts who increasingly worry that touting the drugs could harm Americans and cost valuable time to research other treatments.... Health officials have been told to prioritize the anti-malaria drugs over other projects that scientists believe have more potential to fight the outbreak.”
If Trump never mentioned the drug, here would be the MSNBC headline- Trump ignores potential miracle drug. They just take what ever opposite stance he does, even if it cost lives
@MF123 ....Have you had follow ups with your success stories and been able to determine the amount of lung damage? I keep reading the Coronavirus puts a hurtin on the lung tissue. Keep it up. Got you in my prayers brother.
Straight out of the FOX playbook. Market share leaders always get copied.
I don’t watch either, ain’t got time for that BS.
The problem with this level of evidence is, hydroxychloroquine may have had nothing to do with those patients recovery. We know some people, a sizable percentage of those who get COVID-19, recover with mild symptoms. If these 8 people who were found to have early symptoms and didn’t have other factors (such as the meds with interactions he mentions) would have recovered in a similar fashion without drug Tx or with just the Zpac, their results don’t support efficacy of hydroxychloroquine at all. This is why many of the experts and medical professionals are leery of touting this drug.
I'm not @MF123 but i can state with complete confidence that there are some places seeing shortages in IV sedatives and paralytics. Im not saying they are out or that more isnt on the way, but it is now a factor that is impacting decisions.
I am not a health care provider, but my source of info is good.
Some people are just negative and only look at things in a negative way, can't help them.
Whst the president says or dr fauci says is not going to sway what a doctor is going to do to treat his patients.
The drug is being used and at least at some level below the POTUS medical professionals are making the decision to employ it. When something more proven comes along, im sure they will use that.
This is right. Considering the standard that we need to achieve before offering this drug at-scale as a remedy for COVID-19, this sample size has next to 0 statistical significance, (I hope I acknowledged that earlier) and we can't pretend there is no possible downside (to address Trump's ridiculous "What do you have to lose? Take it." comment).
Also, my doctor who is advocating this regimen has somewhere around 500 patients. He is personally acquainted with their medical history, and his team is able to keep a closer eye on patients than the typical situation. Everyone has text/phone access to him and his team 24/7 (everyone pays an annual fee out of pocket for the service). So this context is a bit different than the normal provider/patient relationship and I thought I should call that out.
While not statistically reliable, I believe the results of those 8 (now 15-- that was an earlier email I copy/pasted) is a helpful, practical data point. It's a small contribution to the larger conversation going on between right now and the time we get the confidence that comes with the double-blind outcomes. In this time in the middle, doctors and their patients are having to make swift and difficult decisions, all with possible downsides, with lives at stake.
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@petegroove , are you disagreeing with the fact that whatever Trump says they are going to take the opposite view and use it to damage him in anyway possible?
@Earle36 is telling the truth this time. Ha.
Settle down Nancy. You must have missed this paragraph in the post you quoted...
And, the paper linked in the same quote from the doctors in Sichuan province.
But, carry on politicizing the virus and displaying your misplaced outrage and small mind for the board.
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anon_yqoaxol227dby
Guest
Continuing course with current trials.
People don’t know this because it doesn’t get talked about enough , but there are many other drugs being used as well....
we need to stop overselling the benefits of HCQ.
Who is getting oversold? And what bad has happened because of the overselling?
I'm going to assume that physicians aren't being influenced by the TV news etc.
If population has some hope that there are some potential treatments being tried right now, HCQ being one of them, I can't see how this is bad.
What is the issue with anyone mentioning any of the drugs currently being tried?
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anon_yqoaxol227dby
Guest
Because you have people like those ITT who think this helps. You have people who take it and die (already a case of a couple). You have shortages for medications for which the drug is indicated. You have people that assume because the doctor isn’t giving it, the doctor is doing something wrong.
physicians don’t rely on politicians for medical decision making but the general public does get persuaded by politicians. There are many people who actually believe there’s evidence that HCQ works.
You use some dumbasses who drank fish tank cleaner as your first reason, or any reason for that matter? You really reached right out of the gate. If they didn't do that they probably would have tied garbage bags over their heads to protect themselves from the virus by now. That kind of stupid has no cause.
Ok we have shortages. There are many things that are short due to COVID.
Those many people who believe HCQ might work includes lots of Physicians everywhere or they wouldn't be using it and prescribing it and causing those shortages.
Doctors all over the globe are being oversold by all the people talking about it, then I guess.
I don't see the issue with patients/families questioning treatment. A doctor should be able to explain the whats and whys of what they are doing.
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anon_yqoaxol227dby
Guest
you have no idea what you’re talking about when it comes to stuff like this
As an absolute, yes. Are they going to take opposite view from Trump at times because it’s what their target audience wants? Probably. Are they going to take opposite view from Trump at times because they know or think his view is inaccurate? Yes.
When any news outlet takes a view opposite a politician, ideally it is informed. When a news outlet reports happenings and facts, that should be accurate, with journalistic integrity that includes multiple verifications.
What FOX does incredibly well, and better than its competitors, is serve up a huge helping of opinion or conjecture mixed in with some news.
Oh, I do have some idea, BTW.
I will choose not to return your rudeness.
Tell me what was wrong with what I posted, Doctor. I'm all ears.
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anon_yqoaxol227dby
Guest
its a bit nuanced. Things in clinical practice are not as binary.
Don’t really have the desire to explain.
Hope you understand.
Apologies for coming across rude
Aww he gets a response but I don't?
Trump says he is a "Billionaire" but hides tax returns.
Trump says he is a "Genius" but hides college grades.
Trump says he is a "Business man" but bankrupt a casino.
Trump says he is a "Christian" but doesn't go to church.
Trump says he is a "Philanthropist" but ripped off his charity.
Trump says he is a "Patriot" but dodged the draft.
Trump says he is an "innocent man" but won't testify.
Trump says he is a "Conservative Republican" but plans to raise the U.S. debt by the most any president ever has in a four year term.
Relax. I haven't gotten to you yet. I have to go back thru my old alerts. I also ask plenty of questions that don't get answered. Its a message board. Sometimes it happens and we all find a way to survive.
Apology accepted, of course. You don't owe me anything, so no big deal.
Also, it was not my intent to start an argument with you in this thread where you were posting your experiences with this bug. If I was being a jerk then I apologize in return.
There are lots of opinions out there about a lot of stuff, to include treatment for this disease. You have yours. Other doctors have theirs. Eventually there will be enough research to sort all this out, but for now that's what we have.
And the general public is going to have an infinite number of other opinions. Me being the owner of one of those unique opinions.
It's a given (to me) that Trump is going to rub people wrong when he mentions "unproven" treatments as a possible solution...For many possible reasons. You have opinion(s) that I assume were from a professional perspective, that's really what I was trying to understand better even if it didn't come off like that.
Personally, I don't mind him promoting a potential treatment, however I'd prefer him to mention more of them. I think it gives people hope, and if it potentially kicks a bureaucracy in the ass a bit to move faster with trying things, well that can be a win too...even if the people in that bureacracy get butthurt about their orderly processes getting upset.
I'm not a Doctor and I don't play one on TV or TI. I'm not on this "front line" although I have been on others and can sympathize with healthcare professionals being over worked, tired, apprehensive, emotionally drained, and maybe scared. I really can.
I simply have a vicarious perspective and understanding on this subject gained thru a family member with this virus.
It's a bit nuanced, but he was told he needed HCQ, (By doctors and not Trump) but couldn't get it until he was well on his way to being dead.
By the time he did get it, it seemed to help for a time and then it didn't. He was in ICU; sedated, chemically paralyzed and on a vent by that point.
They pulled out all the stops (doing a bunch of stuff) and then as a last resort tried a drug currently in Ph III trials (Actemra), at the same time they were switching him to pill forms of sedatives (what we were told\ and thru feeding tube I assume) because of concerns for dwindling supplies at his hospital of the customary IV sedatives. (yes this is that serious a situation in some places)
A few days later and after 13 days total on a Ventilator (using up 8 of his lives and untold medical resources in the process), he is virus free, and breathing on his own with no supplemental O2 after getting unhooked this afternoon. One of the lucky few survivors after being that bad for that long. A lot of dedicated professionals worked super hard to save him. America at it's finest.
And for all you healthy, non-smoking, athletic regular gym going males in your early 50's who actually make it this far in my post; my totally unsolicited public service announcement would be that it is 100% possible to go from lifting weights and running 3 miles, to being on a ventilator in as little as 14 days and dead or almost dead a few days after that.
Do with that info what you will.
And, @MF123 Thanks for doing what you do.
I might be. I am willing to make a reasonable debate with plenty of people. I would love you to be one of them.
I see comments itt about following the money. Anyone ever checked out Dr Fauci and his connections to Bill Gates; foundations? Probably not. Anyone read any of Bill Gates interviews regarding what his goals would be with the use of vaccines? Anyone question the timing of Gates' resignation from MS to devote all of his time to his vaccine foundations? Check out Dr. Shiva. He's the smartest guy in the room; literally.
Instead of making a post where all you do is ask questions, consider making a post where you make assertions. That's how dialogue works.
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