Stone Mountain, Georgia

[steele-tiger]

I agree with you that these Confederate statues were put up with racist intent by white supremacists during the 1920-1960 and should be removed. However if we remove these statues, which I agree is the correct thing to do in a vacuum then down the road and mind you I have no evidence for this then it is possible that it could lead us down a slippery slope to statues of George Washington being taken down. We cannot risk going down this slippery slope, so these Confederate statues put up with racist intent must remain standing.

 

[sloanMB]

No reason not to. There is already noise to rename parks named after George Washington. Thomas Jefferson is now villified. So are Thomas Sumter and Francis Marion, who were essential to winning the Revolution.

It is coming.

I'm still formulating an opinion on all of this madness with taking down status, renaming streets and buildings, etc but you are absolutely right that this will just be the beginning. Soon enough, there will be lobbying to replace Washington on the $1 bill with Jesse Jackson to make up for it. We'll have the Malcolm X memorial instead of the Jefferson to make up for it.

What I resent most is that there is a large segment of this "resistance" or "equality" movement that looks at damn near every white male and thinks bigot/racist/xenophobe without knowing a damn thing about them.

 

[kgwillison]

Here's what I don't get. President Trump didn't think John McCain was a hero because he was an American military officer who was captured by the enemy. Trump says his heroes don't get captured.

Meanwhile Trump apparently admires men who were traitors against the United States and, furthermore, were LOSERS in the war against the Union.

To Trump, McCain is a loser and Lee and Jackson are heroes.

Moreover, to equate Washington and Jefferson with losers and traitors such as Lee and Jackson makes sense only to Trump and a few other misguided people.

 

[Clems0nTiger]

I'm still formulating an opinion on all of this madness with taking down status, renaming streets and buildings, etc but you are absolutely right that this will just be the beginning. Soon enough, there will be lobbying to replace Washington on the $1 bill with Jesse Jackson to make up for it. We'll have the Malcolm X memorial instead of the Jefferson to make up for it.

What I resent most is that there is a large segment of this "resistance" or "equality" movement that looks at damn near every white male and thinks bigot/racist/xenophobe without knowing a damn thing about them.

Your legitimate post and steel-tiger's troll post are indistinguishable.

 

[Edistoplayer]

All confederate statues should be taken down. A statement must be made that hatred and the legacy of white supremacist will not be tolerated in the USA. Treason should not be honored in this country.

 

[sloanMB]

Your legitimate post and steel-tiger's troll post are indistinguishable.

What I resent most is that there is a large segment of this "resistance" or "equality" movement that looks at damn near every white male and thinks bigot/racist/xenophobe without knowing a damn thing about them.

That's cute, care to address the second part of the post?

 

[kgwillison]

I'm still formulating an opinion on all of this madness with taking down status, renaming streets and buildings, etc but you are absolutely right that this will just be the beginning. Soon enough, there will be lobbying to replace Washington on the $1 bill with Jesse Jackson to make up for it. We'll have the Malcolm X memorial instead of the Jefferson to make up for it.

What I resent most is that there is a large segment of this "resistance" or "equality" movement that looks at damn near every white male and thinks bigot/racist/xenophobe without knowing a damn thing about them.

This is ridiculous. When people don't like something they decide to extrapolate to the n'th degree.

Just because certain cities and states are removing the statues of traitors to the United States - statues as many have noted were placed there not in the immediate aftermath of the Civil War but in much later times with the message to blacks that 'the white man still runs things here' - doesn't mean that Washington, Jefferson and others who founded this country will have their monuments removed. Sure, there are some 'progressives' who will argue that but just because a few do doesn't mean it is likely to happen.

Please tell me about the organized campaign to replace GW on the $1 bill with Jesse Jackson.

Jesse Jackson is yesteryear's leader of Blacks. Look around and see the Harold Ford Jr.'s, the Marc Morials, Barack Obamas.

 

[clemsonpaw00]

the replacement of them with outkast would be so fvcking dope and appropriate.

 

[HillmanTall]

Let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia!

Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain of Tennessee!

I wonder who said that and why? Damn Liberals!!!

XCUDB

Who: Martin Luther King Jr.
When: August 28, 1963
Why: In the I have a Dream speech, King hopes to give the patriotic song “My Country ‘Tis of Thee” a new meaning, and here he modifies the lyrics a bit to include nearly every part of the U.S., where he hopes there to be freedom.

This will be the day when all of God's children will be able to sing with a new meaning, "My country, 'tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing. Land where my fathers died, land of the pilgrim's pride, from every mountainside, let freedom ring."​

He starts off in the north and western states, where segregation wasn’t as much of an issue.

And if America is to be a great nation this must become true. So let freedom ring from the prodigious hilltops of New Hampshire. Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York. Let freedom ring from the heightening Alleghenies of Pennsylvania!

Let freedom ring from the snowcapped Rockies of Colorado!

Let freedom ring from the curvaceous slopes of California!​

But he uses the transitional phrase “but not only that”, and begins to mention landmarks in the center of segregation and racism.

But not only that; let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia!

Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain of Tennessee!

Let freedom ring from every hill and molehill of Mississippi. From every mountainside, let freedom ring.

And when this happens, when we allow freedom to ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual, "Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are free at last!"​

 

[ClemsonPaws]

I agree with you that these Confederate statues were put up with racist intent by white supremacists during the 1920-1960 and should be removed. However if we remove these statues, which I agree is the correct thing to do in a vacuum then down the road and mind you I have no evidence for this then it is possible that it could lead us down a slippery slope to statues of George Washington being taken down. We cannot risk going down this slippery slope, so these Confederate statues put up with racist intent must remain standing.

I just think the distinction between the founding fathers and confederate soldiers is so easy to draw that it will stop that kind of slippery slope. The former helped create this country and fought a war for its independence. The latter succeeded from this country and fought a war against it. Although some of the founding fathers maintained immoral practices such a slavery, their fame/statues are unrelated to those things. The fame/statues of confederate soldiers is because they fought a war against the United States. Honestly, it's hard to imagine two circumstances more divergent from one another.

Edit: Read the last sentence of your post. Realized it was sarcasm.

 

[clemsonpaw00]

I just think the distinction between the founding fathers and confederate soldiers is so easy to draw that it will stop that kind of slippery slope. The former helped create this country and fought a war for its independence. The latter succeeded from this country and fought a war against it. Although some of the founding fathers maintained immoral practices such a slavery, their fame/statues are unrelated to those things. The fame/statues of confederate soldiers is because they fought a war against the United States. Honestly, it's hard to imagine two circumstances more divergent from one another.

steele was trolling pretty big time, bruh. he's almost definitely on the correct side of this issue. but i appreciate your post.

 

[NorthStateTiger]

Not making any particular argument here, but to get a grasp of this general issue it's important to learn when a lot of these monuments went up (1920s-50s, when white supremacy was a major movement and people were rebelling against civil rights and the notion that all humans are created equal).

Regardless of what side you are on, it's important context.

Important to that context- most people building statues in the 1920s-1950s had a personal connection to the confederacy through a male relative that served/died. That personal connection does not exist today. Not many people left alive with parents/grandparents that served in the confederate army. I would venture a guess that the vast majority of confederate statues were built in that "tribute to friends/family/community" theme. Many statues were probably also built for white supremacist movements, but I bet it's less than the number that were built with dad or grandpa in mind.

The whole "why was there such a lag thing" is simple too. It's not like the south of 1880 was in a lot of shape to build big marble statues and memorials.

The argument to take the statues down is entirely about how they make people feel today. And I absolutely don't disagree with taking them down for those reasons. Think that them making people feel oppressed is a totally valid reason to remove them (or move them).

But diving through context behind each statue and sussing out the intent of statue builders in 1920-1950 is difficult and no one would agree anyways. Pseduointellectual justification for an emotional argument.

 

[Clems0nTiger]

That's cute, care to address the second part of the post?

Sure. First, I think large in that context is relative and hard to determine. Second, I loathe the PC culture of calling everyone a racist, in lieu of intellectual discourse. There are valid reasons for removing many of these monuments, and they are even made by very conservative people. Yesterday, I listened to Ben Shapiro's podcast, where he suggested moving these monuments into private museums was a good idea. It's not just extreme PC-crazed liberals that feel that way.

 

[clemsonpaw00]

like for real how bout we settle on this compromise because of the environmental/practical applications of actually removing the confederate icons

 

[clemsonpaw00]

Important to that context- most people building statues in the 1920s-1950s had a personal connection to the confederacy through a male relative that served/died. That personal connection does not exist today. Not many people left alive with parents/grandparents that served in the confederate army. I would venture a guess that the vast majority of confederate statues were built in that "tribute to friends/family/community" theme. Many statues were probably also built for white supremacist movements, but I bet it's less than the number that were built with dad or grandpa in mind.

The whole "why was there such a lag thing" is simple too. It's not like the south of 1880 was in a lot of shape to build big marble statues and memorials.

The argument to take the statues down is entirely about how they make people feel today.

Diving through context behind each statue and sussing out the intent of statue builders in 1920-1950 is difficult and no one would agree anyways.

this seems rather speculative without something more concrete to back it up

 

[sloanMB]

This is ridiculous. When people don't like something they decide to extrapolate to the n'th degree.

Just because certain cities and states are removing the statues of traitors to the United States - statues as many have noted were placed there not in the immediate aftermath of the Civil War but in much later times with the message to blacks that 'the white man still runs things here' - doesn't mean that Washington, Jefferson and others who founded this country will have their monuments removed. Sure, there are some 'progressives' who will argue that but just because a few do doesn't mean it is likely to happen.

Please tell me about the organized campaign to replace GW on the $1 bill with Jesse Jackson.

Jesse Jackson is yesteryear's leader of Blacks. Look around and see the Harold Ford Jr.'s, the Marc Morials, Barack Obamas.

There is no current organized campaign for the $1 that I'm aware of, I just made that up as an example, clearly. But don't be silly, you know it will happen.

Well you're wrong on the other memorials part. None other than Rev. Sharpton is already saying the Jefferson Memorial should be town down. I would link articles, but you would certainly just dodge the issue by bashing whatever websites I came up with. But here's a few quotes:

MSNBC host Al Sharpton is calling for ending federal funding for maintenance and security for the Jefferson Memorial because the third U.S. president owned slaves.

“When you look at the fact that public monuments are supported by public funds you’re asking me to subsidize the insult of my family. I would repeat that the public should not be paying to uphold somebody who has had that kind of background,” Sharpton told CBS host Charlie Rose.

 

[NorthStateTiger]

this seems rather speculative without something more concrete to back it up

Very fair assesment, but how can you concretely prescribe intent to people's actions in the 1920s-1950s?

Unless its like the statues removed in New Orleans that clearly state "this is a monument to white supremacy".

But are the confederate statues at courthouses in the south

a- a monument to people from local towns and communities that died in the civil war?

b- a sign to african americans that they dont have equal rights in this courthouse

I could see either one, and like I edited, that's why I can understand bringing them down. But I don't buy the contextual argument that LW made- "X happened in these years, when these things were also happening, so it happened for these reasons".

 

[sa-clemtiger1]

First off, seriously doubt this gets approved. Secondly, the time and cost to it would be astounding. Lastly, who gives that much of a shit as to what's on Stone Mountain.

Seriously? This is a very shallow view. It's not about what's on the rock, it's about what we as a country are saying in terms of wiping out our history and allowing liberals to dominate social and cultural agendas. If this type of stuff is allowed then there will be no end to wiping out our culture and our history. Nobody is proud of all of our history. But the fact is it exists and we should learn from it instead of sweep it under the rug.

 

[clemsonpaw00]

There is no current organized campaign for the $1 that I'm aware of, I just made that up as an example, clearly. But don't be silly, you know it will happen.

Well you're wrong on the other memorials part. None other than Rev. Sharpton is already saying the Jefferson Memorial should be town down. I would link articles, but you would certainly just dodge the issue by bashing whatever websites I came up with. But here's a few quotes:

MSNBC host Al Sharpton is calling for ending federal funding for maintenance and security for the Jefferson Memorial because the third U.S. president owned slaves.

“When you look at the fact that public monuments are supported by public funds you’re asking me to subsidize the insult of my family. I would repeat that the public should not be paying to uphold somebody who has had that kind of background,” Sharpton told CBS host Charlie Rose.

jesus christ, dude. again, no one on the left gives a shit what jesse jackson and al sharpton think. literally the only people who ever bring them up nowadays are out-of-touch conservatives.

 

[NorthStateTiger]

This is ridiculous. When people don't like something they decide to extrapolate to the n'th degree.

Just because certain cities and states are removing the statues of traitors to the United States - statues as many have noted were placed there not in the immediate aftermath of the Civil War but in much later times with the message to blacks that 'the white man still runs things here' - doesn't mean that Washington, Jefferson and others who founded this country will have their monuments removed. Sure, there are some 'progressives' who will argue that but just because a few do doesn't mean it is likely to happen.

Please tell me about the organized campaign to replace GW on the $1 bill with Jesse Jackson.

Jesse Jackson is yesteryear's leader of Blacks. Look around and see the Harold Ford Jr.'s, the Marc Morials, Barack Obamas.

Were any confederate statesmen or generals actually tried for or convicted of treason?

 

[deshaunwatson4]

If you remove it then it never happened.

there's a difference between portrayal and idealization...ain't hitler statues in Germany but they don't forget what happened (not comparing the 2 at all)

 

[kgwillison]

There is no current organized campaign for the $1 that I'm aware of, I just made that up as an example, clearly. But don't be silly, you know it will happen.

Well you're wrong on the other memorials part. None other than Rev. Sharpton is already saying the Jefferson Memorial should be town down. I would link articles, but you would certainly just dodge the issue by bashing whatever websites I came up with. But here's a few quotes:

MSNBC host Al Sharpton is calling for ending federal funding for maintenance and security for the Jefferson Memorial because the third U.S. president owned slaves.

“When you look at the fact that public monuments are supported by public funds you’re asking me to subsidize the insult of my family. I would repeat that the public should not be paying to uphold somebody who has had that kind of background,” Sharpton told CBS host Charlie Rose.

I just told you that there will certainly be some who will advocate that. But tell me the last time the Rev. Al Sharpton was influential in the nation's political discussion. He's less relevant on the left than Hannity is on the right. These guys simply talk to a mirror.

There were apparently 2 people on CNN the other night advocating the same thing. There is fringe on the left and fringe on the right but they don't represent mainstream thinking.

 

[kgwillison]

Were any confederate statesmen or generals actually tried for or convicted of treason?

I don't know that. I doubt it given that the feeling at the time was to heal a divided nation. And I think most came around and pledged their support to the Union. But they were traitors nevertheless.

Wonder how people would feel if a state put up a monument to honor Vietnam War draft evaders? They were granted amnesty by President Carter, welcomed home but don't deserve to be honored.

 

[alex24]

Honestly these people are messing with my heritage. And quite frankly it's starting to make me a rasist. And I'm noticing that with a lot of people around me. They are creating a lot of hate. People are once again talking about race wars. We are right back in the 60's because of a bunch of belly aching.

Most of the people who are complaining are as far away from a slave as you could possibly be. Free cell phone, food, electricity paid for, free roof over their head and a little extra spending money and not even a days work to accomplish this. Maybe if they had jobs they wouldn't have time to sit around and think of bull shit to complain about.

 

[TICrack]

I agree with you that these Confederate statues were put up with racist intent by white supremacists during the 1920-1960 and should be removed. However if we remove these statues, which I agree is the correct thing to do in a vacuum then down the road and mind you I have no evidence for this then it is possible that it could lead us down a slippery slope to statues of George Washington being taken down. We cannot risk going down this slippery slope, so these Confederate statues put up with racist intent must remain standing.

Very good point. Tough decisions to make here and not sure if there is a right one.

 

[TICrack]

Stone Mountain work began in 1916, in case anybody was curious.

In terms of teaching history "in totality" people have to understand the fear that existed in the south to get a full understanding of the history. John Brown is a figure who isn't even famous if that's not part of the history. Southerners in the war were fighting to defend themselves and their families.

That's a cold reality that people who want to paint the war as some "pro slavery vs against slavery" conflict don't want to accept. If you were born in 1860, slavery had existed in the area for 250 years. Whether you were against it or not, it was the reality you lived with.

That's why people are so keen to leave out The Haitian Massacre of 1804. It is the single most critical detail of the build up to the war and the war that is actively left out.

When you realized that every white person in the south feared anti-white genocide, all this stuff gets a little cloudier. It also makes it a whole lot more clear why John Brown, is an important figure even though he essentially never accomplished anything.

The Cherokee Declaration of Causes from 6 months into the war that shows you exactly how the war was fought in the initial stages will only serve to add veracity to a lot of those fears. Of those 3 details, only John Brown is included on the locked Wikipedia timeline...despite being entirely verifiable.

I have no issue with removing the flag from the state house. I have no issue with removing monuments that were clearly and blatantly for the sake of white supremacy.

The south and confederate soldiers being portrayed as nazis though? That is a problem.

Every last person here would fight to protect their family. Every single one.

Are confederate soldiers actually being compared to nazis? I've been busy and haven't seen that comparison.

Appreciate some of the background info too.

 

[OrangeRegalia]

like for real how bout we settle on this compromise because of the environmental/practical applications of actually removing the confederate icons

Throw in Young Dro, Gucci, Young Thug, Future and Migos. Did more for America that's for sure.

 

[Edistoplayer]

Honestly these people are messing with my heritage. And quite frankly it's starting to make me a rasist. And I'm noticing that with a lot of people around me. They are creating a lot of hate. People are once again talking about race wars. We are right back in the 60's because of a bunch of belly aching.

Most of the people who are complaining are as far away from a slave as you could possibly be. Free cell phone, food, electricity paid for, free roof over their head and a little extra spending money and not even a days work to accomplish this. Maybe if they had jobs they wouldn't have time to sit around and think of bull shit to complain about.

I agree all these ppl need jobs

 

[NorthStateTiger]

A great deal of this has to do with the terms of surrender at Appomattox. One of the terms offered by Grant was that the surrendered would be free to return to their homes "not to be disturbed by United States authority so long as they observe their paroles and the laws in force where they may reside."

The North (and most of all, Lincoln) wanted to get the country back on track as soon as possible, with as little animosity as possible. Revenge or punishment was seen as being too disruptive to the future of the reunited nation. The thought was that the sooner the South was up and running again socially, politically, and economically, the better the entire country would be.

So I have read about this some, and I think you're generally right on the money. Remember "malice towards none and charity for all" and all that in Lincolns second innaguarual address.

But I have also read some things about how Jefferson Davis was imprisoned after the war and at one point he was seriously considered to be tried for treason, after it was decided he couldnt be tried for Lincolns murder.

Andrew Johnson eventually pardoned him. A big part of that was because his defense would have revolved around the legality of secession, and it was not a can of worms that they wanted to open back up or a slam dunk that a court would find against Davis.

I need to read more to be sure thats not just revisionist wacko stuff online, but my only point in my reply to kg or here is that there is a little more nuance to the civil war than its currently given credit for by modern progressives.

 

[andcam]

Better visit any monument you can soon. America makes me very sad right now.

Once all the confederate stuff is gone they will go after the founders. Once all the founders are gone they will go after the constitution. Once the constitution is gone our country and what it stands for is gone.

Should it not be left up to the local governments concerning monuments? I mean, has not conservative orthodoxy historically been along the lines of state's rights and local government control? Therefore, if Pickens county wants to build a giant Ben Tillman or Stonewall Jackson monument, that is on them. Likewise, if New Orleans wants to take theirs and put in storage, should that not also be their choice? It just seems to me like a lot of conservatives want local govt control until the local govt is controlled by people that are not like them. Munson, you are usually pragmatic, albeit right of center, what do you think about this concept? @Ron Munson . Love to hear the thoughts of others who desire substantive debate instead of name calling.

 

[CFlowers8511]

there's a difference between portrayal and idealization...ain't hitler statues in Germany but they don't forget what happened (not comparing the 2 at all)

You're not comparing the two but you just did.

 

[Esso Porch]

I wonder when was the last time that any of the TI gang visited this park? Please respond.

Played golf there about 2 years ago

Went on a field trip to the mountain part in elementary school

 

[Larry_Williams]

Important to that context- most people building statues in the 1920s-1950s had a personal connection to the confederacy through a male relative that served/died. That personal connection does not exist today. Not many people left alive with parents/grandparents that served in the confederate army. I would venture a guess that the vast majority of confederate statues were built in that "tribute to friends/family/community" theme. Many statues were probably also built for white supremacist movements, but I bet it's less than the number that were built with dad or grandpa in mind.

The whole "why was there such a lag thing" is simple too. It's not like the south of 1880 was in a lot of shape to build big marble statues and memorials.

The argument to take the statues down is entirely about how they make people feel today. And I absolutely don't disagree with taking them down for those reasons. Think that them making people feel oppressed is a totally valid reason to remove them (or move them).

But diving through context behind each statue and sussing out the intent of statue builders in 1920-1950 is difficult and no one would agree anyways. Pseduointellectual justification for an emotional argument.

What's my emotional argument?

I said it's useful and important for both sides to learn about the origins of these monuments, and the spirit of the times during which they were erected.

There was a Confederate monument-building campaign. It lasted for decades. It coincided with the massive rise of the KKK, which coincided with the rise of civil rights interests from African-Americans who fought in WWI.

This is an undeniable part of the context.

 

[kgwillison]

Honestly these people are messing with my heritage. And quite frankly it's starting to make me a rasist. And I'm noticing that with a lot of people around me. They are creating a lot of hate. People are once again talking about race wars. We are right back in the 60's because of a bunch of belly aching.

Most of the people who are complaining are as far away from a slave as you could possibly be. Free cell phone, food, electricity paid for, free roof over their head and a little extra spending money and not even a days work to accomplish this. Maybe if they had jobs they wouldn't have time to sit around and think of bull shit to complain about.

Let me clear one thing up right here. You are not starting to become a rasist (sic). You ARE a racist. Anyone reading your post can come to no other conclusion.

Hey, I am on British ancestry but I don't have a Benedict Arnold statue on my yard. I am an American first and foremost. Arnold committed treason against the United States and unless you were born during the Civil War, those Confederate generals were traitors against your country, too.

I don't find fault with rank and file soldiers, many of whom were constricted into the service. But no need to honor the leaders who organized military campaigns against the United States of America. Most of the folks supporting the Confederacy would have tarred, feathered and hung Jane Fonda for what she said about Vietnam but she never picked up a gun against the U.S.

 

[Ron Munson]

Should it not be left up to the local governments concerning monuments? I mean, has not conservative orthodoxy historically been along the lines of state's rights and local government control? Therefore, if Pickens county wants to build a giant Ben Tillman or Stonewall Jackson monument, that is on them. Likewise, if New Orleans wants to take theirs and put in storage, should that not also be their choice? It just seems to me like a lot of conservatives want local govt control until the local govt is controlled by people that are not like them. Munson, you are usually pragmatic, albeit right of center, what do you think about this concept? @Ron Munson . Love to hear the thoughts of others who desire substantive debate instead of name calling.

I think it should be left up to the state or the local government.

You can't rewrite history, and like Trump said, where do you draw the line?

Do we take Jefferson, Washington, and Jackson off currency, and rename every every state, city, county, school, road, etc that was named after them? even Lincoln himself was a racist, albeit he was about par for what everyone back then was.

What about MLK, he was against gay marriage.

Do we disband the democratic party for their history?

What about FDR's internment camps or vetoing anti-lynching legislation?

Or Woodrow Wilson for segregating the federal government?

Where exactly do draw the line, do we just completely erase our history and start over?

In sum, if elected leaders in the state or local government want them removed, then they should be removed. And if they do choose to remove them, I think they should be given to a museum or something similar instead of melted down.

 

[NorthStateTiger]

What's my emotional argument?

I said it's useful and important for both sides to learn about the origins of these monuments, and the spirit of the times during which they were erected.

There was a Confederate monument-building campaign. It lasted for decades. It coincided with the massive rise of the KKK, which coincided with the rise of civil rights interests from African-Americans who fought in WWI.

This is an undeniable part of the context.

The context behind the statues is larger than that and contains additional elements that you're also not pointing out.

The specific context that you are pointing out is clearly designed to influence others to have the opinion "these have always been intended to be monuments to white supremacy". There are other areas of context that you're ignoring that could be used to argue another point.

I am going to go back to sticking to sports on here though.

 

[alex24]

@alex24 Why is your profile picture a boy forcing a banana down the throat of little girl?

Picture it as your mother

 

[alex24]

I agree all these ppl need jobs

I agree. All of them on both sides need to get off the street and do something productive

 

[cufan1]

Seriously? This is a very shallow view. It's not about what's on the rock, it's about what we as a country are saying in terms of wiping out our history and allowing liberals to dominate social and cultural agendas. If this type of stuff is allowed then there will be no end to wiping out our culture and our history. Nobody is proud of all of our history. But the fact is it exists and we should learn from it instead of sweep it under the rug.

So your argument is if there's no monument, it didn't happen? Do you need monuments to teach history? And why Confederate soldiers and generals? Don't we already have monuments of Union soldiers and generals as well as the President during that period? Arguments against removing these monuments are nothing more than some weird southern pride thing.

 

[TigerDutch]

Should also look into buildings named after "great" men like Teddy Kennedy. I'm offended a lifelong rich guy could, (1) kill a woman through his gross negligence; (2) have a lifelong career being a drunk and even driving his own wife & kids to alcoholism; and (3) have multiple affairs and, in general, have a view that a woman's place was on her back (was notoriously sexist).

But, he's reveared and has his name on multiple buildings. I find this offensive but I guess since he was merely sexist and not a racist (probably was in private life) and was a liberal democrat, it will be another 30-40 years to rectify his atrocities. Maybe it's because he was a rich white northerner and not a rich son from, say, Mississippi.