Taxes, Taxes, Taxes - Biden Raising Long Term Capital Gains Tax

[PrimeIsGettingComfortable]

There's a big difference between "good living" and "wealthy."

For sure. I’m only trying to suggest that if the top 1% of earners can’t become wealthy, then we should think about what flaws may exist in the system.

I remember reading a long time ago that something like 2/3 of the wealth in this country can be traced back to family land ownership 100+ years ago. I might be butchering that stat, but you get the gist.

 

[scotchtiger]

For sure. I’m only trying to suggest that if the top 1% of earners can’t become wealthy, then we should think about what flaws may exist in the system.

I remember reading a long time ago that something like 2/3 of the wealth in this country can be traced back to family land ownership 100+ years ago. I might be butchering that stat, but you get the gist.

Another issue not addressed by adding taxes for people making $400K…

 

[loveoysters]

I make somewhere between this and the 400k these guys seem to think makes them middle class. I consider myself and my family wealthy, and we live in a major city.

So if $90,000 is middle class-would you definitely agree that someone making more than that should pay their student loans as they would be considered wealthy?

 

[CUT93]

I either said it here or another thread, but I still won't vote for Trump. But I will vote for Republicans in Congress so they can stop dogshit legislation like this.

Anyone paying <20% federal effective tax rate who thinks someone else should pay more in taxes needs to take a long, hard look in the mirror.

The problem with this is that if enough of those pubs in congress don't win or flip seats, then there will be no one as potus to veto the tax increases and other nonsense.

In your individual case, it probably won't matter since SC will go for trump in all likelihood. However, the same sentiment in swing states could be catastrophic. That's the main reason I argue for voting for trump on here. That, in addition to the fact he is being politically prosecuted- which should not happen no matter what side of the aisle you are on, and sets an extremely dangerous and harmful precedent.

Truth be told, I may not vote for trump either since I am in SC, but I 100% would do so if I were in any state that might be close.

 

[CUT93]

Because it's in the US' best interests to support our allies across the globe, as well as to support those most vulnerable in our country. I absolutely hate paying the amount of taxes I do, but I understand it's a necessary sacrifice that each American makes for the collective good. I don't believe cutting social services spending is the right choice, as I personally believe that it's our duty to help those who can't help themselves. I understand that not everyone shares that sentiment, and I'm fine with that. I'm not nearly smart enough to think I have all the answers, but I do know that tax cuts on the wealthy don't help anyone but the upper class.

50 years of tax cuts for the rich failed to trickle down, economics study says

Tax cuts for the wealthy didn't boost the economies of the U.S. and 17 other countries — but they did worsen income inequality.

www.cbsnews.com

Under Trump the wage gap between rich an poor was lower than it had been in a long time. In particular, the wage gap between afirican americans and others was at the lowest level in 40+ yrs. So, if the issues in that article are really a concern, there is no question who you should vote for, or against. The stats don't lie. Minorities were 100% better off under trump than biden by almost any measure you can come up with.

 

[iceheart08]

So if $90,000 is middle class-would you definitely agree that someone making more than that should pay their student loans as they would be considered wealthy?

That is some leap man. No, I wouldn't consider anyone making over 90k wealthy and that's not what we are talking about nor what I said. I do, as I've said, consider anyone making 400k annually to be wealthy.

And I do agree, it's wrong to allow the same king of student loan forgiveness for the wealthy.

Should be means tested. Separate constitutional hurdle though.

 

[iceheart08]

Under Trump the wage gap between rich an poor was lower than it had been in a long time. In particular, the wage gap between afirican americans and others was at the lowest level in 40+ yrs. So, if the issues in that article are really a concern, there is no question who you should vote for, or against. The stats don't lie. Minorities were 100% better off under trump than biden by almost any measure you can come up with.

Trump is doing historically well in communities of color for a Republican.

biden is performing very well, right now, with middle class whites (labor).

trump could end up winning Arizona, Georgia, north Carolina, by handy margins because of communities of color, and then lose the election because he's losing white working class folks in the rust belt.

 

[CUT93]

Trump is doing historically well in communities of color for a Republican.

biden is performing very well, right now, with middle class whites (labor).

trump could end up winning Arizona, Georgia, north Carolina, by handy margins because of communities of color, and then lose the election because he's losing white working class folks in the rust belt.

I agree with this. My point is that an overriding hope and motivation for many dem voters, including those who are not lower income, is to make things better for the lower class. This is what the dem party has promised for 50 years and never delivered on despite claiming they are the only ones that can, or want, to do it.

Trump did it. Yet he had no support from those to claim to want exactly what he did. This was before all the J6 nonsense also.

I honestly believe many dem voters vote that way bc they want to make things better for those less fortunate. However, dem politicians have no such desire to make that happen. They are running the longest con of all time, and dem voters are too stupid to realize it. Dem politicians don't want to help people out of poverty, they want they want them dependent on the govt for their survival. They have succeeded,

 

[Willence]

Israel - dumping all over an inferior enemy (and has been for a long, long time) with superior weaponry and technology (that we supply them with.)
Ukraine - Has been under attack by a country with a superior military and economy for the last ~2 years (not counting the 2014 unlawful invasion/annexation) and is only surviving thanks to weaponry and technology that the west supplies them with.

In one war, we're supplying the underdog who's being relentlessly invaded by a superior force. In the other war, we're supplying the bully who's committing war crimes on a near weekly basis.

These things are not the same.

Stunning take. You're on a roll in this thread.

 

[WapPride]

Under Trump the wage gap between rich a poor was lower than it had been in a long time. In particular, the wage gap between afirican americans and others was at the lowest level in 40+ yrs. So, if the issues in that article are really a concern, there is no question who you should vote for, or against. The stats don't lie. Minorities were 100% better off under trump than biden by almost any measure you can come up with.

Looking at the data it appears we’re back at the same Gini index reading currently that we were in 2019 when income inequality was at its lowest point since 2007. 4 years post COVID shutdown and we’re back where we were right after Trump juiced an already roaring economy in 2018 with his tax cuts (which seemed to have a massive impacy on the current US debt republicans constantly crow about on here - https://www.americanprogress.org/ar...ly-responsible-for-the-increasing-debt-ratio/ )

Decline in U.S. Wealth and Income Inequality Between 2016 and 2019 | Baker Institute

Public finance fellow Jorge Barro analyzes Federal Reserve survey data released in September 2020 that shows that U.S. wealth inequality has declined for the first time in 30 years.

www.bakerinstitute.org

Income Inequality Down Due to Drops in Real Incomes at the Middle and Top, But Post-Tax Income Estimates Tell a Different Story

U.S. Census Bureau income data released today show declines in real income at the middle and top of the income distribution from 2021 to 2022.

www.census.gov

If you have any info supporting your claims I’d be happy to read them.

 

[DW4_2016]

I am going to say that $400,000.00 sounds like a lot of money

But when made by earned income the deductions and taxes today kill that number

My daughter earns way up there and she struggles with all the costs associated with living

MIDDLE CLASS

Once upon a time 100,000.00 was MIDDLE CLASS

Today I would say MIDDLE CLASS IS NOW APPROACHING THE NEED TO MAKE $400,000.00
To be slightly above middle class

That is insane inflation escalation for America

Middle class used to be $5/hour. Just depends on how far back you go.

 

[scotchtiger]

I agree with this. My point is that an overriding hope and motivation for many dem voters, including those who are not lower income, is to make things better for the lower class. This is what the dem party has promised for 50 years and never delivered on despite claiming they are the only ones that can, or want, to do it.

I honestly believe many dem voters vote that way bc they want to make things better for those less fortunate. However, dem politicians have no such desire to make that happen. They are running the longest con of all time, and dem voters are too stupid to realize it. Dem politicians don't want to help people out of poverty, they want they want them dependent on the govt for their survival. They have succeeded,

For many, I don't think its even a con. It's like a well-intentioned parent giving their kids what they want instead of making them work for it. Or telling them their failures aren't their fault. Or coddling them instead of dishing out some tough love.

Good parents teach the value of hard work, tell their kids that nothing in life is free, ensure they know that they aren't entitled to anything - it's up to them to earn it. There are no excuses, you make your own luck (my dad always told me luck = preparation + opportunity).

This is like the opposite of the dem attitude of blaming things on systemic racism and the patriarchy. Or literally giving people stuff for free. Or lobbying against things like work for welfare. Or telling us that we should all have equitable outcomes rather than equal opportunity.

Dems want to hand out goodies from hardworking taxpayers instead of fixing root causes to problems. An obvious one is handing out student loan forgiveness instead of fixing the broken student loan system. That's incredibly, incredibly stupid. And we should be focusing more on why people can't break out of poverty rather than continuing to throw handouts at them.

The current approach from the left isn't working. We should all want to lift people out of poverty, but making excuses for people, handing them things they didn't earn and teaching them the brain-rotting mantra that life should be fair and equitable and fvck society when it isn't ... well, it's bad parenting.

 

[PrimeIsGettingComfortable]

For many, I don't think its even a con. It's like a well-intentioned parent giving their kids what they want instead of making them work for it. Or telling them their failures aren't their fault. Or coddling them instead of dishing out some tough love.

Good parents teach the value of hard work, tell their kids that nothing in life is free, ensure they know that they aren't entitled to anything - it's up to them to earn it. There are no excuses, you make your own luck (my dad always told me luck = preparation + opportunity).

This is like the opposite of the dem attitude of blaming things on systemic racism and the patriarchy. Or literally giving people stuff for free. Or lobbying against things like work for welfare. Or telling us that we should all have equitable outcomes rather than equal opportunity.

Dems want to hand out goodies from hardworking taxpayers instead of fixing root causes to problems. An obvious one is handing out student loan forgiveness instead of fixing the broken student loan system. That's incredibly, incredibly stupid. And we should be focusing more on why people can't break out of poverty rather than continuing to throw handouts at them.

The current approach from the left isn't working. We should all want to lift people out of poverty, but making excuses for people, handing them things they didn't earn and teaching them the brain-rotting mantra that life should be fair and equitable and fvck society when it isn't ... well, it's bad parenting.

So what do you suggest would help lift Toole out of poverty?

I agree the dem programs have not worked, but I also have seen enough evidence that I firmly believe systemic racism is what needs to be fixed.

 

[CUT93]

So what do you suggest would help lift Toole out of poverty?

I agree the dem programs have not worked, but I also have seen enough evidence that I firmly believe systemic racism is what needs to be fixed.

Racism certainly exists, no doubt about that. However, I don't think that is the root cause of poverty for african americans.

I think if you compare and contrast the hispanic and aa communities it would provide some insight.
One of the main arguments with systematic racism is that aa's have not had the benefit of generational wealth accumulation. While that is true, the hispanic community has had even less , by comparison.
Yet, hispanic wages are 20% higher and wealth 30%+ higher than aa's on average. What inherent advantages does the hispanic community have? Do you think white people hate black people and love hispanic people?

I would argue it is the community in and of itself that is the biggest differnce. A family in the hispanic community is much more likely to be a married two parent family. The also seem to value education more as well. While the hispanic graduation rate is higher than that of aa, the bigger difference imo is that hispanic students put forth more effort, make better grades, and are subsequently more prepared to enter the workforce.

The difference in the two communities, is also evident in crime statistics which overwhelmingly favor the hispanic community.

 

[scotchtiger]

So what do you suggest would help lift Toole out of poverty?

I agree the dem programs have not worked, but I also have seen enough evidence that I firmly believe systemic racism is what needs to be fixed.

I think there needs to be a complete overhaul of a bunch of things, in a bunch of categories. Kinda hard to capture it all in a couple min between meetings. But what exactly about systemic racism needs to be fixed? I get that redlining was an example of systemic racism, but that ended in 1968. I struggle to see examples today.

• Education: We need to fix the college prep model. We need alternate tracks for tech school, trades and other career prep. We need to teach people how to contribute value to society and get paid for doing it, not to be good college students. We also need to fix parental involvement and education emphasis in many communities.
• Finance: Everyone needs to be thoroughly educated on personal finance. Debt kills people at the lower end. Student debt is often unwise. Credit card interest can bury people. Homeownership elements are unfamiliar. People need to understand the importance of budgeting, saving, etc.
• Healthcare and Nutrition: These things are closely linked. Medical bills and poor health (productivity, how you feel, etc) significantly affect people on the lower income end. We need to invest in nutrition and physical health education. I would invest in food deserts. I think the calls for pulling school lunch are unwise. I also think we need to phase in insurance and Medicare penalties for those not taking care of themselves, but that's less applicable in the poor category.
• Expectation setting: You should expect nothing from the government but a temporary hand up. You should not expect life to be fair. You should expect to support yourself and your family 100%. You should expect to save for your own retirement. You should expect to be responsible for your health (to the extent it's within your control). Your success is your own and you are 100% responsible for it. Nobody else.
• Culture: Don't have kids out of wedlock. Nuclear family is important. Strong father figure in the home is important. Always do the right thing and do things right (one of my dad's consistent pieces of advice). Crime is unacceptable. Personal responsibility is paramount.

There is only so much the federal government can do. Shifting education tracks, focus on health and nutrition, investment in food deserts and setting the clear expectation that government isn't the answer, but personal responsibility is paramount are all things that it can do. Poor communities are going to need to fix some of the other issues themselves.

 

[BlueRidgedf]

Do you people know there are kids at Columbia who needs their women's gender studies degree paid off. There are Ukrainians who need their pension money. There's illegals who needs you to step-up and take care of them.Stop being so selfish and pay up. White privilege.

 

[PrimeIsGettingComfortable]

I think there needs to be a complete overhaul of a bunch of things, in a bunch of categories. Kinda hard to capture it all in a couple min between meetings. But what exactly about systemic racism needs to be fixed? I get that redlining was an example of systemic racism, but that ended in 1968. I struggle to see examples today.

• Education: We need to fix the college prep model. We need alternate tracks for tech school, trades and other career prep. We need to teach people how to contribute value to society and get paid for doing it, not to be good college students. We also need to fix parental involvement and education emphasis in many communities.
• Finance: Everyone needs to be thoroughly educated on personal finance. Debt kills people at the lower end. Student debt is often unwise. Credit card interest can bury people. Homeownership elements are unfamiliar. People need to understand the importance of budgeting, saving, etc.
• Healthcare and Nutrition: These things are closely linked. Medical bills and poor health (productivity, how you feel, etc) significantly affect people on the lower income end. We need to invest in nutrition and physical health education. I would invest in food deserts. I think the calls for pulling school lunch are unwise. I also think we need to phase in insurance and Medicare penalties for those not taking care of themselves, but that's less applicable in the poor category.
• Expectation setting: You should expect nothing from the government but a temporary hand up. You should not expect life to be fair. You should expect to support yourself and your family 100%. You should expect to save for your own retirement. You should expect to be responsible for your health (to the extent it's within your control). Your success is your own and you are 100% responsible for it. Nobody else.
• Culture: Don't have kids out of wedlock. Nuclear family is important. Strong father figure in the home is important. Always do the right thing and do things right (one of my dad's consistent pieces of advice). Crime is unacceptable. Personal responsibility is paramount.

There is only so much the federal government can do. Shifting education tracks, focus on health and nutrition, investment in food deserts and setting the clear expectation that government isn't the answer, but personal responsibility is paramount are all things that it can do. Poor communities are going to need to fix some of the other issues themselves.

Systemic Racism comes in the form of how we are funding that education. Why are schools in suburban white communities better funded than those in Black inner city communities?

Why were drug sentences so much harsher in the Black community than the white suburban community even though white kids do more drugs?

Why are Black communities “gentrified”, forcing the people of those communities to move, and be farther away from friends, family, healthcare, churches, and their work?

Why are Black communities exposed to “stop and frisk” policies that lead them to be late for work, school, appointments, and ultimately giving them a higher likelihood of being put in the system - which then prevents them from being hired at other jobs?

Why (to your point) are Black communities only given access to highly processed unhealthy foods instead of the govt protecting them from these toxic products that cause health issues?

Why are the majority of health care studies focused on white people, instead of also studying the impact on the Black population?

Why have Black communities been abused by “eminent domain”?

We could go on and on, but I don’t think any rational white person would argue that their life would be the same or easier if they were Black.

 

[scotchtiger]

Systemic Racism comes in the form of how we are funding that education. Why are schools in suburban white communities better funded than those in Black inner city communities?

Why were drug sentences so much harsher in the Black community than the white suburban community even though white kids do more drugs?

Why are Black communities “gentrified”, forcing the people of those communities to move, and be farther away from friends, family, healthcare, churches, and their work?

Why are Black communities exposed to “stop and frisk” policies that lead them to be late for work, school, appointments, and ultimately giving them a higher likelihood of being put in the system - which then prevents them from being hired at other jobs?

Why (to your point) are Black communities only given access to highly processed unhealthy foods instead of the govt protecting them from these toxic products that cause health issues?

Why are the majority of health care studies focused on white people, instead of also studying the impact on the Black population?

Why have Black communities been abused by “eminent domain”?

We could go on and on, but I don’t think any rational white person would argue that their life would be the same or easier if they were Black.

Some of the answers are obvious, but not necessarily right:

• Because local taxes contribute to schools, so wealthier areas will have better funding. That's why those with means move to good school districts. It is true that poor people do not have that luxury, not just black people.
• Assume you're referring to the crack sentences which have since been addressed?
• Because as home values rise, they have not been able to keep pace with the income needed to keep living in those areas. It's not like someone went out rounding up black people. They moved because they couldn't afford it. It's about being poor, not necessarily black. Shit, middle income whites have been gentrified out of Mt. Pleasant.
• This one is obvious, because there is significantly more crime in black communities and blacks are significantly more likely to commit crimes. You and I have argued about this, but the facts support it. If people walked around with signs saying this person is 5X more likely to be carrying an illegal weapon, how would you instruct your officers to prioritize stops?
• They can have whatever food they want, but shitty fast food is cheap. And organic, higher quality food is expensive. Whole Foods isn't setting up shop in an impoverished area. They can't make money. Again, not a black thing, a poor thing.
• Probably because they were disproportionately occupying land needed for development.
• Don't disagree.

It really highlights the fact that people need to work hard to pull themselves out of poverty, and that those in poverty do have a harder path to success. We should implement some of my ideas and attitudes above (thoughts?) to help them do that, and protect them from the cycle they are in.

 

[PrimeIsGettingComfortable]

Some of the answers are obvious, but not necessarily right:

• Because local taxes contribute to schools, so wealthier areas will have better funding. That's why those with means move to good school districts. It is true that poor people do not have that luxury, not just black people.
• Assume you're referring to the crack sentences which have since been addressed?
• Because as home values rise, they have not been able to keep pace with the income needed to keep living in those areas. It's not like someone went out rounding up black people. They moved because they couldn't afford it. It's about being poor, not necessarily black. Shit, middle income whites have been gentrified out of Mt. Pleasant.
• This one is obvious, because there is significantly more crime in black communities and blacks are significantly more likely to commit crimes. You and I have argued about this, but the facts support it. If people walked around with signs saying this person is 5X more likely to be carrying an illegal weapon, how would you instruct your officers to prioritize stops?
• They can have whatever food they want, but shitty fast food is cheap. And organic, higher quality food is expensive. Whole Foods isn't setting up shop in an impoverished area. They can't make money. Again, not a black thing, a poor thing.
• Probably because they were disproportionately occupying land needed for development.
• Don't disagree.

It really highlights the fact that people need to work hard to pull themselves out of poverty, and that those in poverty do have a harder path to success. We should implement some of my ideas and attitudes above (thoughts?) to help them do that, and protect them from the cycle they are in.

Agree on education reform and an emphasis on trade school. But would also add that school funding be changed so that there is parity in terms of schools getting equal funding.

Agree with you on personal finance. Blows my mind that we are not teaching this.

Agree with you on nutrition and health. We need to tax the shit out of fast food and processed food and subsidize healthy food.

Expectations are a function of your environment. Did you know the number 1 indicator of success is the zip code you grew up in? Network and role models are huge, so most in Black communities struggle to find those role models and you need to find a way to break that cycle.

And we will agree to disagree on the culture side. No kid grows up and says I want to be a criminal or live off the government. And as for the nuclear family, there are more white kids who grow up without a father than Black kids.

The thing about systemic racism is that it isn’t simple to articulate, it’s a complex system and requires a commitment to learn. That’s not unintentional.

 

[scotchtiger]

Agree on education reform and an emphasis on trade school. But would also add that school funding be changed so that there is parity in terms of schools getting equal funding.

Agree with you on personal finance. Blows my mind that we are not teaching this.

Agree with you on nutrition and health. We need to tax the shit out of fast food and processed food and subsidize healthy food.

Expectations are a function of your environment. Did you know the number 1 indicator of success is the zip code you grew up in? Network and role models are huge, so most in Black communities struggle to find those role models and you need to find a way to break that cycle.

And we will agree to disagree on the culture side. No kid grows up and says I want to be a criminal or live off the government. And as for the nuclear family, there are more white kids who grow up without a father than Black kids.

The thing about systemic racism is that it isn’t simple to articulate, it’s a complex system and requires a commitment to learn. That’s not unintentional.

Definitely some common ground. On the nuclear family, here is the data from census.gov. This is clearly a problem in the black community.

 

[scotchtiger]

Unsurprisingly, average income ranks identically to having two parents in the home (stats above).

Race/Ethnicity of Household Head	2021 Median Household Income (2022 dollars)	2022 Median Household Income
All races/ethnicities	$76,330	$74,580
Asian*	$109,400	$108,700
White, not Hispanic	$84,110	$81,060
Hispanic (any race)*	$62,520	$62,800
Black*	$52,080	$52,860

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

Racism certainly exists, no doubt about that. However, I don't think that is the root cause of poverty for african americans.

I think if you compare and contrast the hispanic and aa communities it would provide some insight.
One of the main arguments with systematic racism is that aa's have not had the benefit of generational wealth accumulation. While that is true, the hispanic community has had even less , by comparison.
Yet, hispanic wages are 20% higher and wealth 30%+ higher than aa's on average. What inherent advantages does the hispanic community have? Do you think white people hate black people and love hispanic people?

I would argue it is the community in and of itself that is the biggest differnce. A family in the hispanic community is much more likely to be a married two parent family. The also seem to value education more as well. While the hispanic graduation rate is higher than that of aa, the bigger difference imo is that hispanic students put forth more effort, make better grades, and are subsequently more prepared to enter the workforce.

The difference in the two communities, is also evident in crime statistics which overwhelmingly favor the hispanic community.

@CUT93

Dear CUT93

I do a lot of volunteer work and government work trying through altruism to help people improve the quality of life.

I have grown up and always lived around blacks and hispanics with me in a huge minority.

The FALSE ARGUMENT THAT RACISM IS RESPONSIBLE FOR INEQUALITY AND POVERTY IS A TOOL USED TO CONTROL THE BLACK POPULATION

I may be white but that does not mean I am blind intellectually dumb as in my retirement I have seen the resl causes

Number ONE ISSUE is the failure of the black community to embrace literacy

In the area I live the South Carolina the literacy rate of student PK to 6th grade was 1.5 students out of 10 meeting their grade level standard.

Think metaphorically if the Clemson Football Team was 1-9 or 2-8

The fans would be screaming for Dabo ‘s head

Where I live the Black population is indoctrinated with Woke Policies

All in on DEI instead of Unity of Purpose, Meritocracy, Literacy

The Black Community is being lead by the nose to FAIL AT LIFE so other people can benefit

There is no systemic racism in American or no huge thread of White Supremacy

Both are false narratives promoted by the DEMOCRATIC PARTY IN THEIR BLOODTHIRSTY BLOODBATH AGAINST DEMOCRACY IN AMERICA

THEY HOPE TO DESTROY THE TWO PARTY GOVERNMENT IN THE US

READ THE TULSI GABBARD BOOK

YOU WILL UNDERSTAND

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

I think there needs to be a complete overhaul of a bunch of things, in a bunch of categories. Kinda hard to capture it all in a couple min between meetings. But what exactly about systemic racism needs to be fixed? I get that redlining was an example of systemic racism, but that ended in 1968. I struggle to see examples today.

• Education: We need to fix the college prep model. We need alternate tracks for tech school, trades and other career prep. We need to teach people how to contribute value to society and get paid for doing it, not to be good college students. We also need to fix parental involvement and education emphasis in many communities.
• Finance: Everyone needs to be thoroughly educated on personal finance. Debt kills people at the lower end. Student debt is often unwise. Credit card interest can bury people. Homeownership elements are unfamiliar. People need to understand the importance of budgeting, saving, etc.
• Healthcare and Nutrition: These things are closely linked. Medical bills and poor health (productivity, how you feel, etc) significantly affect people on the lower income end. We need to invest in nutrition and physical health education. I would invest in food deserts. I think the calls for pulling school lunch are unwise. I also think we need to phase in insurance and Medicare penalties for those not taking care of themselves, but that's less applicable in the poor category.
• Expectation setting: You should expect nothing from the government but a temporary hand up. You should not expect life to be fair. You should expect to support yourself and your family 100%. You should expect to save for your own retirement. You should expect to be responsible for your health (to the extent it's within your control). Your success is your own and you are 100% responsible for it. Nobody else.
• Culture: Don't have kids out of wedlock. Nuclear family is important. Strong father figure in the home is important. Always do the right thing and do things right (one of my dad's consistent pieces of advice). Crime is unacceptable. Personal responsibility is paramount.

There is only so much the federal government can do. Shifting education tracks, focus on health and nutrition, investment in food deserts and setting the clear expectation that government isn't the answer, but personal responsibility is paramount are all things that it can do. Poor communities are going to need to fix some of the other issues themselves.

Preaching to Choir

All people NOT just black need to stop the hand out society and focus on hard work and getting an education

 

[LaniKaiTiger]

1.5MM internally displaced and 20,000 civilian deaths in Gaza = “The genocide must stop!”

6.5MM global refugees and 50,000 (likely much higher) civilian deaths in Ukraine = “Fvck Yeah!”

Russia's intense attacks on Ukraine has sharply increased civilian casualties in December, UN says

The United Nations says Russia’s intense missile and drone attacks across Ukraine in recent weeks sharply increased civilian casualties in December, with over 100 killed and nearly 500 injured.

apnews.com

Where does your 50,000 number come from? Roughly 2 milllion people in Gaza, 40 milllion in Ukraine and territory occupied by Russia. 1 in 100 killed in Gaza, 1 in 4,000 killed in Ukraine. The situation in Ukraine is very bad, and the situation in Gaza is worse.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-top-diplomat-blinken-urges-all-icc-members-comply-with-putin-arrest-warrant-2023-03-22/

https://www.axios.com/2024/04/29/icc-congress-netanyahu-israel-gaza

At least one thing is consistent

 

[scotchtiger]

Russia's intense attacks on Ukraine has sharply increased civilian casualties in December, UN says

The United Nations says Russia’s intense missile and drone attacks across Ukraine in recent weeks sharply increased civilian casualties in December, with over 100 killed and nearly 500 injured.

apnews.com

Where does your 50,000 number come from? Roughly 2 milllion people in Gaza, 40 milllion in Ukraine and territory occupied by Russia. 1 in 100 killed in Gaza, 1 in 4,000 killed in Ukraine. The situation in Ukraine is very bad, and the situation in Gaza is worse.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-top-diplomat-blinken-urges-all-icc-members-comply-with-putin-arrest-warrant-2023-03-22/

https://www.axios.com/2024/04/29/icc-congress-netanyahu-israel-gaza

At least one thing is consistent

Such a difficult comparison to make. How many of those in Gaza support a terrorist regime and want death to an entire race of people? 1 in 2? 3 in 4?

Now how many Ukranians support a terrorist regime and want death to an entire race of people? 1 in 10,000? 1 in 1,000,000? None?

 

[LaniKaiTiger]

Such a difficult comparison to make. How many of those in Gaza support a terrorist regime and want death to an entire race of people? 1 in 2? 3 in 4?

Now how many Ukranians support a terrorist regime and want death to an entire race of people? 1 in 10,000? 1 in 1,000,000? None?

I don’t think, “it’s wrong to kill civilians but ok to kill bad civilians,” is a position you want to support. Hamas would agree with you, and you’re better than their company.

If you ask Putin, Ukraine is indeed a Nazi/terrorist regime. His claim is ludicrous, and it wouldn’t give him license to bathe in civilian death even if it were true. If a Ukrainian mom’s son is in the Azov Battalion, a Russian airstrike on her home would still be a war crime

 

[Cocks are Number 1]

I don’t think, “it’s wrong to kill civilians but ok to kill bad civilians,” is a position you want to support. Hamas would agree with you, and you’re better than their company.

If you ask Putin, Ukraine is indeed a Nazi/terrorist regime. His claim is ludicrous, and it wouldn’t give him license to bathe in civilian death even if it were true

Daily reminder.. Hamas kills, then hides behind said innocent civilians.

 

[LaniKaiTiger]

Daily reminder.. Hamas kills, then hides behind said innocent civilians.

Daily reminder two things can be true at once.

Hamas = categorically bad
Israel having liberty to kill as many civilians as it wants in the name of going after Hamas = also bad.

 

[scotchtiger]

I don’t think, “it’s wrong to kill civilians but ok to kill bad civilians,” is a position you want to support. Hamas would agree with you, and you’re better than their company.

If you ask Putin, Ukraine is indeed a Nazi/terrorist regime. His claim is ludicrous, and it wouldn’t give him license to bathe in civilian death even if it were true. If a Ukrainian mom’s son is in the Azov Battalion, a Russian airstrike on her home would still be a war crime

That's not really my point. Ukraine is not a threat to Russia or its people. Most Palestinians want Israelis dead, the country to be extinct and largely supported the mass murder of Israelis in October.

I don't want any dead civilians, but I'm willing to give Israel more grace as they attempt to eradicate a murderous threat to their people.

 

[PrimeIsGettingComfortable]

That's not really my point. Ukraine is not a threat to Russia or its people. Most Palestinians want Israelis dead, the country to be extinct and largely supported the mass murder of Israelis in October.

I don't want any dead civilians, but I'm willing to give Israel more grace as they attempt to eradicate a murderous threat to their people.

Not to mention free the hostages that are still being held. And having many cease fire proposals rejected because Hamas is unwilling to let those hostages go.

And Hamas and the UN lying about cause of damage or civilian casualties.

I think it’s fair to debate Israel’s response, but not fair that the majority of outrage is pointed at Israel instead of the terrorist group that raped, killed, tortured, and abducted nearly 2000 civilians.

 

[LaniKaiTiger]

That's not really my point. Ukraine is not a threat to Russia or its people. Most Palestinians want Israelis dead, the country to be extinct and largely supported the mass murder of Israelis in October.

I don't want any dead civilians, but I'm willing to give Israel more grace as they attempt to eradicate a murderous threat to their people.

You and I know that Ukraine isn’t, but Russia has a different opinion.

Giving Israel grace is perfectly reasonable. They can’t be expected to get punched a thousand times and have no response, the latest episode being the most extreme example. They still don’t have carte blanche; some line has to be drawn somewhere.

The best response to a threat may not be relying solely on direct, prolonged military campaigns. I think that paradigm failed in Lebanon in the 80s and 90s, and it failed again in 06. Israel’s approach to Iran itself has been smarter.

 

[Cocks are Number 1]

Daily reminder two things can be true at once.

Hamas = categorically bad
Israel having liberty to kill as many civilians as it wants in the name of going after Hamas = also bad.

I don’t disagree with you on the killing of innocent civilians. I also think Israel had enough, and its response is to rid the threat at all costs.

Sad situation, but Hamas asked for it. I hate it for all those who are innocent.

 

[PrimeIsGettingComfortable]

Has anyone heard a rational argument of why so many students are protesting Israel and supporting terrorist groups like Hamas and Hezbollah?

I really wonder if they are being radicalized by TikTok, but then I see faculty at UCLA walking out in solidarity with students.

As I said in a previous post, you can support the people of Palestine, you can question the aggressiveness of Israel’s response. But I don’t see how anyone can support Hamas, Hezbollah, and call for the eradication of Jews.

Is there a single rational argument being made?

 

[Johnstone D-5]

Israel - dumping all over an inferior enemy (and has been for a long, long time) with superior weaponry and technology (that we supply them with.)
Ukraine - Has been under attack by a country with a superior military and economy for the last ~2 years (not counting the 2014 unlawful invasion/annexation) and is only surviving thanks to weaponry and technology that the west supplies them with.

In one war, we're supplying the underdog who's being relentlessly invaded by a superior force. In the other war, we're supplying the bully who's committing war crimes on a near weekly basis.

These things are not the same.

I guesss the U.S. should not have taken Pearl Harbor so seriously?

 

[WapPride]

Has anyone heard a rational argument of why so many students are protesting Israel and supporting terrorist groups like Hamas and Hezbollah?

I really wonder if they are being radicalized by TikTok, but then I see faculty at UCLA walking out in solidarity with students.

As I said in a previous post, you can support the people of Palestine, you can question the aggressiveness of Israel’s response. But I don’t see how anyone can support Hamas, Hezbollah, and call for the eradication of Jews.

Is there a single rational argument being made?

Has there been students/faculty openly supporting Hamas/Hezbollah? Or is that just some narrative that people have adopted?

 

[WapPride]

I guesss the U.S. should not have taken Pearl Harbor so seriously?

What?

 

[PrimeIsGettingComfortable]

Has there been students/faculty openly supporting Hamas/Hezbollah? Or is that just some narrative that people have adopted?

The chants at Columbia and other campuses. Flags and headbands of the orgs on campuses. Chants about killing all Jews. Blocking off Jewish students from access to parts of universities.

It’s so disturbing to me - and I fully support protest, but this is an occupation - that American flags are being removed and replaced with Palestinian flags.

At UCLA, about a 100 faculty members walked out in support of the encampment. They are supporting the harassment of students.

Just a disgrace and shocking to me to see it happening at dozens of college campuses.

I am so confused as to what these students are being told and where that info is coming from. My fear is that it is the Chinese in tandem with Iran and or Russia using TikTok to manipulate the youth. And when it gets banned, we will see another revolt from students.

 

[scotchtiger]

The chants at Columbia and other campuses. Flags and headbands of the orgs on campuses. Chants about killing all Jews. Blocking off Jewish students from access to parts of universities.

It’s so disturbing to me - and I fully support protest, but this is an occupation - that American flags are being removed and replaced with Palestinian flags.

At UCLA, about a 100 faculty members walked out in support of the encampment. They are supporting the harassment of students.

Just a disgrace and shocking to me to see it happening at dozens of college campuses.

I am so confused as to what these students are being told and where that info is coming from. My fear is that it is the Chinese in tandem with Iran and or Russia using TikTok to manipulate the youth. And when it gets banned, we will see another revolt from students.

You and I may be able to break bread yet!

 

[CUT93]

Has anyone heard a rational argument of why so many students are protesting Israel and supporting terrorist groups like Hamas and Hezbollah?

I really wonder if they are being radicalized by TikTok, but then I see faculty at UCLA walking out in solidarity with students.

As I said in a previous post, you can support the people of Palestine, you can question the aggressiveness of Israel’s response. But I don’t see how anyone can support Hamas, Hezbollah, and call for the eradication of Jews.

Is there a single rational argument being made?

As with many issues and responses to those issues, this is more of an emotional thing rather than something involving critical thinking for many there. Additionally, when you have a group in mass, individuals in the group tend to "go along" with things they would not do otherwise. In many, maybe even most cases, there are few agitators/instigators that end up leading the crowd and escalating matters to a point the crowd would not reach without them - particularly with those easily influenced like students and highly emotional people who tend to show up at protests. This is not to absolve the group of their action, though. Many are going to learn a hard life lesson when they are suspended/expelled/arrested and have to deal wit the consequences. Hopefully it becomes a learning experience for them.

I also hope this opens the eyes of some who deny the left wing , and often radical, groupthink on college campuses that certainly includes professors and administration.

Specific to this case, college students on most campuses have been led by left wing group think starting with many of the professors whom they are inclined to think know better than they do and are in positions to "enlighten" them.

To your point, no, there is no reason to support any of those groups.

 

[BionicTiger]

Russia's intense attacks on Ukraine has sharply increased civilian casualties in December, UN says

The United Nations says Russia’s intense missile and drone attacks across Ukraine in recent weeks sharply increased civilian casualties in December, with over 100 killed and nearly 500 injured.

apnews.com

Where does your 50,000 number come from? Roughly 2 milllion people in Gaza, 40 milllion in Ukraine and territory occupied by Russia. 1 in 100 killed in Gaza, 1 in 4,000 killed in Ukraine. The situation in Ukraine is very bad, and the situation in Gaza is worse.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-top-diplomat-blinken-urges-all-icc-members-comply-with-putin-arrest-warrant-2023-03-22/

https://www.axios.com/2024/04/29/icc-congress-netanyahu-israel-gaza

At least one thing is consistent

Civilian deaths are bad. On that we agree. War is hideous. On that we agree. Gaza is smaller than LA. It is roughly the size of the stretch between Pasadena and Hermosa Beach. It is incredibly densely populated. Much different situation than Ukraine in that regard.