I just hope they take it down at the end of a day as they would any other time and just not put it back up the next morning. No photo op, no press, no fuss. It just disappears quietly and we don't have to hear about it anymore.
The flag is coming down
- Thread starter NATiger10
- Start date
The liberals have distorted history so much many Americans believe the South only owned salves and the North was so good trying to free slaves. The democrats in the 1960's hang the flag over the state house starting its association with racism. The KKK and Skin heads then used it to further their hate and propaganda. Now here in 2015 the flag will be removed from the state house grounds as it should be. Next week the hate of all races will still be present. Next week ISIS will still want to kill the freedoms of the west, Chicago will still be a murder ground for teens, Native American's will still live on tiny reservations collecting minimal checks from the Fed's and politicians will return to their partisan agendas.
I'm glad the flag is being moved at a museum. My hope now is that our politicians will spend as much energy, time and tears on the many issue this state faces.
I'm glad the flag is being moved at a museum. My hope now is that our politicians will spend as much energy, time and tears on the many issue this state faces.
OK, do you really want an answer? Because it takes a LOT of time to convey a massive amount of information that stands in opposition to the tagline that "the flag stands for racism and hate".
But here is a small sample:
1) the most common reason that people say this is because the flag has been used by the Klan and other "hate groups".
First, I know of no other "hate groups" other than the Klan that have used it. The League of the South has been listed by the Southern Poverty Law Center as one of those groups, and I know that isn't true because I know for a fact that they actually throw racists out of that organization.
As for the Klan, they have sometimes used it. But go look at their website. On their website, and according to their bylaws, only two flags are found: their own flag and the flag of the US. NO Confederate flags.
So if that's your logic (and it's not logic that I subscribe to), then the flag of racism and hatred is the flag of the United States of America, NOT the Confederate flag.
The facts do NOT support what is said.
2) People say that the South seceded over slavery, and fought to defend slavery. This is at best a partial truth, which means it is a lie.
It is true that the first 7 states of the deep South did at least mention the protection of slavery as the reason for secession (the same secession that the Founding Fathers stated was a right given by God in the Declaration of Independence), the states of the mid-Atlantic region seceded later for a totally different reason: they said that Lincoln was a tyrant for trying to use force to force a government on the Southern states. They believed that, based on the Declaration, the Southern states had a God-given right to the government of their choice.
As for the slavery issue, consider these facts:
-After the first seven states seceded and formed the Confederacy, Lincoln was inaugurated as president. The country if falling apart, at least partially over slavery (at least that's what is said), and here is Lincoln (and the north's) response:
"I understand a proposed amendment to the Constitution--which amendment, however, I have not seen--has passed Congress, to the effect that the Federal Government shall never interfere with the domestic institutions of the States, including that of persons held to service. To avoid misconstruction of what I have said, I depart from my purpose not to speak of particular amendments so far as to say that, holding such a provision to now be implied constitutional law, I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable."
Did you catch that? The NORTHERN controlled Congress, passed by SUPERMAJORITY a Constitutional amendment that would guarantee slavery FOREVER, and Lincoln fully APPROVED of it!
So, just how could the war have possibly been over slavery if the northern-controlled Congress passed an amendment guaranteeing slavery forever?
And, if the states of the deep South had truly seceded primarily over slavery, would they have simply sent their representatives back to Congress, vote for the amendment, and be done with it?
There is only one reason they didn't. And there is only one reason Lincoln supported and Amendment guaranteeing slavery forever: Slavery was NOT the real issue here. There was something much bigger to Lincoln; and to the South.
Lincoln was a big corporate lawyer. The railroads provided a custom coach for his to travel to Washington in. He lived in the biggest, nicest home in Springfield. Lincoln said it best what his priorities were:
"My politics are short and sweet, like an "old woman’s dance." I am in favor of a national bank. I am in favor of the international improvement system and a high protective tariff. These are my sentiments and political principles."
Why is this important?
By 1860, the South, which had only about 1/3 of the population, was already paying 87% of the country's taxes, ALL of which was raised through tariffs. There was no income tax. And Lincoln wanted to raise it HIGHER.
This was not a new issue. The tariff and slavery had been the two hot button issues for decades. But the fact is that slavery was dying a natural death. There were more abolitionists in the South than in the north. The number of free blacks was exploding in the South, and throughout the Western hemisphere nations were ending slavery through a system of compensated emancipation. In the north, it wasn't much of an issue, because the number of slaves had been fairly small. BTW, slavery did NOT end in the north because there was concern over the welfare of blacks. It ended primarily because of economics.
If you find the tariff/ tax issue hard to believe, I'll tell you this: virtually every secession movement of the last 500 years, including our own American Revolution, was primarily over taxes.
“If I do that, what would become of my revenue? I might as well shut up housekeeping at once!” ~ Lincoln, in response to the suggestion by the Virginian Commissioners to abandon the custom house of Fort Sumter. Housekeeping is a euphemism for federal spending, in other words, taxing consumers to subsidize special interests, or what we would call today, corporate welfare.
“But what am I to do in the meantime with those men at Montgomery [meaning the Confederate constitutional convention]? Am I to let them go on… [a]nd open Charleston, etc., as ports of entry, with their ten-percent tariff. What, then, would become of my tariff?” ~ Lincoln to Colonel John B. Baldwin, deputized by the Virginian Commissioners to determine whether Lincoln would use force, April 4, 1861
Above all else, Lincoln was a tax and spender, and loved the Union because it would allow him to tax the South to spend on “internal improvements” in the North.
Then there's the Joint Resolution on War, passed by the US Congress in the summer of 1861, which stated pretty clearly that the war was NOT over slavery.
But then, how could it be, when both sides owned slaves, and even the US government itself owned slaved most of the war, which it used for construction of building like the Capitol.
More come come later on why it SHOULD be up at the soldiers' monument; but clearly, based on the facts, the arguments against the flag are a straw man argument.
Say what you will to defend the South in the Civil War (Strom Thurmond's son said it best) but don't be fooled about why the Confederate Battle Flag went on the Capitol in 1962. It was to oppose civil rights for Blacks. That's as much a reason as the Civil War that Blacks and, frankly, ALL Americans should oppose it ever being there in the first place and should be saluting Gov. Haley and the SC legislature today. They've taken an important step in recognizing that this flag came to represent racism. Repeat: "came to represent" racism. The Nazi flag came to represent hatred of non-Arians, too. Don't lecture me about how and why it first came to be, look instead at what it became.
good grief man, don't invest so much time effort and thought in communication with a moron. I'll give you a like though.
As for the strength of my arguement, it is clear that you are comfortable with rewriting history. The flag at the state Capitol is just the beginning of a scrubbing of our history of anything tha offends anyone. I am actually ok with placing it in a museum but my concern is still the same, our history is ugly lest we forget it.
Let's see how this plays out. Plosives just introduced a bill and it was sent to committee to ban the confederate flag. What other things will be banned or banished? And, just a few minutes ago Boehner has called for a review of all confederate symbols in the Capitol.
By the way the flags of the KKK are the American flag and the Christian flag not the confederate battle flag. Just ask Woodrow Wilson.
We will see who is right.
Says who?
The northern based liberal media? The NAACP, which undertook the attack on the flag in the mid 90s in an effort to boost membership, make money, and put themselves back in the media after decades of being invisible?
Just because someone SAYS it's so, doesn't make it so. The facts are above. The flag of racism and hatred is the flag of the United States, based on your own logic, and the facts. Go to the Klan's website yourself. No Confederate flags, only US flag.
The flag of the US flew over troops that committed rape, theft, and murder as they drove through the South. For all the talk of slave masters taking advantage of black slave girls, the number of mulatos - people of mixed race - was only slowly increasing, if you look at the US census numbers in the 1800s through 1860. However, there was a huge jump in that number in the 1970 census - because the troops of the US government came through the South, raping black women as they marched. Of course, they also committed war crimes by destroying private property and leaving women and children without food so they would starve. You should read the Slave narratives, where former slaves talked about how yankee troops tortured them as they marched through the South. It would make your proud of the Stars and Stripes, I'm sure! Yet you believe it is the CBF that symbolizes hatred.
This is the essence of brainwashing. Say something over, and over, and over; even if the facts do not agree, it becomes the accepted "truth". You, sir, have been brainwashed into believing a lie.
Here you go. Tell us some more about how the Klan doesn't use the Confederate flag as a symbol.
I accuse you of vague slippery slope warnings and you respond by repeating your vague slippery slope warnings. Again, trying to jump from "flag put up in the 1960's as a racist middle finger to Civil Rights is removed" to "the Democrats are trying to erase all history of the Civil War from our culture!" is laughable. Get back to me when the "scrubbing of our history" actually happens, otherwise feel free to queue up with the rest of the doomsday prophets. It's a long line, you'll have plenty of company.
