BDD coming out strong. Haymakers to the Libs coming soon. I can feel it deep down in my bluish hued plumbs.
******TI Official State of the Union In-Speech Thread
- Thread starter CU1TruTiger4Life
- Start date
Nancy Pelosi giving off a serious Lucille Bluth vibe
Why the fvck would anyone watch that horse shit ?
Nancy Pelosi giving off a serious Lucille Bluth vibe
The butthurtness of the two parties during this speech is funny and sad.
Trying to see what Trump is going to do next to ruin this country.
I think every American for the rest of time should oppose and not support any president. Why should we all back someone that has won the election and offer full support for the betterment of the nation? We should hope there is continuous turmoil and political bickering so that nothing good happens to any of us citizens. Let’s never pull together as one great nation like our grandparents did. Let’s whine amd hope for the worst.
It’s sad that unemployment is at an all-time low in all demographics. It’s sad that economy is booming. I can’t wait for another recession. Just leave the damn border open so we can flood the streets with illegals and overrun our youth with dope, child trafficking and continuous murder of our legal citizens
Fu€k Trump
It’s sad that unemployment is at an all-time low in all demographics. It’s sad that economy is booming. I can’t wait for another recession. Just leave the damn border open so we can flood the streets with illegals and overrun our youth with dope, child trafficking and continuous murder of our legal citizens
Fu€k Trump
The people that sat on their ass when trump said what he said about late term abortion are all disgusting human beings.
I'd like a specific reason that late term abortions are specifically bad, please.
I'm just trying to understand. Late term abortions are specifically bad, right? I can't quite wrap my head around how they're worse than any other abortion. What with life beginning at conception and everything.
There are things to fish for debate about. This isn't one of them. I happen to believe you're better than this. If you aren't, God save you sir. At 23 weeks, a baby can survive outside the womb. It is a mostly developed unborn child. I happen to believe any abortion is murder but I can at least engage in some discussion about that. That being said, the debate is over after about 12 weeks as you see a forming child that can be hurt, hear the mother, feel and is growing and being nurtured by the mother. How you fail to see this or think this is worthy of debate is quite disgusting. I hope you'll give this a bit of thought.
I'm being serious with you and I don't think you've got an answer. Abortion is not something that I take lightly and neither do the overwhelming majority of people who have to get a late term abortion. You know, the sorts of women who would otherwise be forced to go through labor to deliver something literally without a brain (as occurs with third trimester abortions). I think that if you're going to take a strong stance against something, you should be able to explain why.
If elective late term abortions are especially bad, it necessarily means that not all elective abortions are equal. If they're not all equal then it kind of calls into question the whole "life begins at conception so all abortion is murder" thing, don't you think? Abortion is murder but late term abortion is especially murder? That doesn't jive to me.
Declaring something as an absolute and beyond debate is what's unacceptable. You (@Willence) don't get to be the arbiter of what is good and bad in this world. I absolutely could have approached the debate differently but I wanted to give the OP a chance to say why such procedure were especially bad without anchoring the conversation.
I've always found the "viability" line as a strange one (assuming you're ok with abortions before viability. If you're not I don't see the point in arguing about viability). Is a 23 week old fetus more human now than it was 200 years ago because medicine has advanced? That doesn't make any sense to me.
It's late and I don't want to go through the whole thing (that I almost entirely started, I admit). I think it's worth considering why late term abortions are especially bad so that you've got a consistent view of things. I doubt that you'd be ok with late term abortions if the fetus was anesthetized first, for example.
It isn't more human than it was. It is something we know is human now and we have the technology to save those children and give them a chance at a life. You don't want me to explain things because I already did. Not sure what you want but I am not going to be able to help you I'm afraid. They are babies. They are human beings. They are alive. You don't kill human beings because you feel like it. A woman's right to choose ends when she gets pregnant. There will always be selective exceptions and dire situations where alternatives need to be considered. This isn't about that. It's about an agreement in principle that it is a human life. That we can't get there is an abomination.
* Abortion is bad because you "don't kill human beings because you feel like it"
* Life begins at conception ("a woman's right to choose ends when she gets pregnant")
* Late term abortions are especially bad (" debate is over after about 12 weeks as you see a forming child that can be hurt, hear the mother, feel and is growing and being nurtured by the mother."
Those three points can't all coexist. If you believe life begins at conception and all elective abortion is wrong then you have a logically consistent position. It's not necessarily one that I agree with but it's one I can respect and understand. If you simultaneously believe all of the three points that I outlined above (I hope you'll forgive me if I misrepresented anything), then there are some gaps in your reasoning.
I don't get why you'd think a late term abortion is any more monstrous than any other abortion is what I'm saying.
I am absolutely against abortion at any stage of fetal development and you are correct from a point of logic. I think it stems from the fact that we've all been desensitized to whole idea of baby killing. I'm old enough to remember Roe v Wade as it unfolded. The Pro-Life proponents have to try and gain little victories where and when they can. It's not so much that they believe abortion is ok early on, but not ok later in pregnancy. It's more about drawing a line in the sand.
Another way to think about it is: I'm against murder, the taking of another human life. There is a difference, however between shooting someone with a gun; as opposed to hacking someone to death with a machete and then eating their flesh. Both are murder, but the sheer ghoulishness and horror of the latter is just different.
Yawn. Well, I'll address the subject of the thread 1st. I did listen to the SOU speech, but I really didn't hear anything. Because agree or disagree with his words, you simply can't believe what Trump says. He lies all the time, even about stupid stuff. I'd guess the big theme of the speech was about unity and working together. IMHO, Trump is probably the biggest divider we have ever had in the WH. Hardly a day goes by w/o him attacking someone about whatever catches his attention. I figure MAYBE Trump can hold out a day or two, but then he'll be back attacking via tweet again. His would be autocratic style of management/government requires an enemy that we can rally against, so if there's not one out there, he has to make one.
Now on to the abortion issue. I actually thought that folks on this board had more sense than this. You know all the arguments for and against. God knows that it's been going on for decades. I'd guess that 99% of folks are on one side of this debate or the other. So whatever your side is, let me ask you this. Let's assume that I am on the opposite side of this debate (whatever side that is). Is there ANYTHING, anything at all that I could say to you right now that would make YOU say:
"You know, Hopefultiger is 100% right on this and I've been wrong my whole life. I'm definitely changing sides and am now pro-whatever"
I suspect that the answer for most of you is a resounding no. So again, I ask you. If you feel that way, why on earth would you think that something YOU say is going to change my mind? And if that's true, why have a debate in the first place? It's a waste of time and all anyone ever does is end up screaming at each other for no reason. Vote it up, and the majority needs to rule. That's the way Democracy works. The losing side has to live with it, but they don't have to LIKE it and can always work toward their own majority. That's the way Democracy works as well.
Two point in this thread strike me especially hard.
1. If you don't think abortion is killing a person, I don't know what to say to you. A woman gets pregnant and at the end of the process, a person pops out. If that gets stopped, then the person doesn't pop out. When life starts makes no difference IMHO.
2. Someone above said that a woman's choice ends when she gets pregnant. That's the single most un American statement I've ever heard. What does America mean in one word? I'd suspect that most folks would answer Freedom. If there's one thing we should value above human life, it's freedom. And when you take someone choices away they aren't free. And where do you draw that line? Can women do risky things while they are pregnant? Ride a bike? Sky dive? Skateboard? Drink? Because a potential kid is just as dead if it dies from this type of thing as if it died from an abortion. That's some handmaiden's tale shiit right there.
Those two point stand at odds with each other in certain cases and THAT'S why pro or con, the choice is not a simple one.
Now on to the abortion issue. I actually thought that folks on this board had more sense than this. You know all the arguments for and against. God knows that it's been going on for decades. I'd guess that 99% of folks are on one side of this debate or the other. So whatever your side is, let me ask you this. Let's assume that I am on the opposite side of this debate (whatever side that is). Is there ANYTHING, anything at all that I could say to you right now that would make YOU say:
"You know, Hopefultiger is 100% right on this and I've been wrong my whole life. I'm definitely changing sides and am now pro-whatever"
I suspect that the answer for most of you is a resounding no. So again, I ask you. If you feel that way, why on earth would you think that something YOU say is going to change my mind? And if that's true, why have a debate in the first place? It's a waste of time and all anyone ever does is end up screaming at each other for no reason. Vote it up, and the majority needs to rule. That's the way Democracy works. The losing side has to live with it, but they don't have to LIKE it and can always work toward their own majority. That's the way Democracy works as well.
Two point in this thread strike me especially hard.
1. If you don't think abortion is killing a person, I don't know what to say to you. A woman gets pregnant and at the end of the process, a person pops out. If that gets stopped, then the person doesn't pop out. When life starts makes no difference IMHO.
2. Someone above said that a woman's choice ends when she gets pregnant. That's the single most un American statement I've ever heard. What does America mean in one word? I'd suspect that most folks would answer Freedom. If there's one thing we should value above human life, it's freedom. And when you take someone choices away they aren't free. And where do you draw that line? Can women do risky things while they are pregnant? Ride a bike? Sky dive? Skateboard? Drink? Because a potential kid is just as dead if it dies from this type of thing as if it died from an abortion. That's some handmaiden's tale shiit right there.
Those two point stand at odds with each other in certain cases and THAT'S why pro or con, the choice is not a simple one.
That's a mighty convenient world view you have. "You're wrong. Also, if you don't agree with me then I can completely disregard you."
My earnest stance is that I think a woman should have the right to choose but that we should do what we can to make it so that choice doesn't need to be made. That means having medically accurate sex education in public school and getting rid of abstinence only sex ed. I also think all effective birth control should be "free" to anyone who wants it, especially long acting reversible contraceptives (LARCs, eg IUDs, the implant). It saves money for all of us overall and also reduces the number of abortions.
Abortions are not something that I'm comfortable with. To me, a fetus is something that's more than a tumor but less than a person so drawing a line is very difficult. They're also an invasive procedure. So I'd like to limit the need for them as much as possible. It'd be great if we had no elective abortions but the way to get there isn't through criminalizing them (and never will be).
