I couldn't agree more with this. I'm not a fan of tearing down confederate statues... Those are a part of our history AND they are art. I do agree that they should not be on government property as they do recall an actual rebellion against said government... but a museum is absolutely fine. Removing that sculpture from Stone Mountain is absolutely stupid.
Rebellion? Interesting take
Very reasoned, rational take. Which means it will be poorly received by at least half of both parties 😂
I don't have enough likes for this
Yep... We moderates are wild and crazy guys. In with a reply before someone calls me a pedo again.
CRT has gotta be one of the most understand academic terms out there and has become a catchall for "things I don't like/things that point out racism in American history." It is/was mainly an academic law thing and about how there were and are structural inequalities in American society with regards to race, both in the law and outside of the law, see redlining for instance.
The constitution is silent on a states right to secede. Therefore it is a states rights issue.
How long Reconstruction last in the South? Could that be a reason that monuments weren't erected earlier?
I agree with this to a certain extent. I also stand by my rebellion stance (and all my folks that I've heard about fought for the South). I've no problem with memorials to people that died. I still don't believe that they belong on government property, but it's just plain wrong to get rid of them.
Being such a huge history buff you would agree that Robert E Lee is one of the finest men our nation has ever seen? Or not?
Absolutely not. He was a slave owner in general but he was also harsh towards his slaves and may have whipped them himself. He took an oath to serve our country and broke it. He was not a military genius like he's made out to be either and benefitted from fighting crappy Union generals. He is despicable and a traitor.
A lot of rich people pre-Civil War still had money after the war. Sons of Confederate Veterans and Daughters of the Confederacy fundraised money to build the monuments. Reconstruction lasted until 1876ish in SC. A lot of this stuff is talked about in books like Race and Reunion by David Blight (trying to think of others) which I read in grad school. In general there is a lot of very good and well written historical scholarship looking into this stuff. Basically there was a view of the war immediately after the war that ultimately the point was to free the slaves, which it was by the end. Over the course of the 1890s and early 1900s you see those emancipatory goals shed, with the war being viewed as a war between brothers. The 1890s are when these monuments go up and exactly when the white Southerners are instituting Jim Crow segregation and when lynching starts picking up. I say tear em all down and put a few in museums.
A state's right to do what exactly?
As long as we are including all the facts then sure. You know like there were slaves in the US that were not necessarily of the African American persuasion. Oh and the real elephant in the room that everyone seems to sweep under the rug of white shame..There were black slave owners as well. Oops…
Hell...the Jews were slaves a thousand or so years before.
A states right to govern itself. As a history buff I’d expect an understanding of that as it’s a fundamental concept of our constitution.
People caught and brought those slaves to market in Africa....by another black tribe that was warring with those captured.
Yes, there were also Native American slaves, and in fact they were the first slaves in the country. This was common in the early 1600s, including among the Puritans and their descendants in New England. They would sell Native Americans into slavery in the Caribbean. However, this fell out of practice during the 1600s as the local native populations were killed off through war and disease. Africans quickly became the main source of slave labor and native slaves almost vanish entirely. Or do you also mean the slaves who were of mixed race but considered black due to the "one drop rule"? Mixed race slaves existed because it was common practice for slave owners to rape enslaved women and then keep the kids as slaves too. Thomas Jefferson did this. You also have white indentured servants during the 1600s but that falls out of practice for a number of reasons and at the end of the day, being an indentured servant was a heck of a lot better than being a slave, partially because you were an indentured servant for a few years, not life.
Disagree, not with the slavery part, but a lot of monuments are to recognize leaders of men who did die for what they thought was right for the country in that era. It just a part of our history, and it can't be erased.
100% agree with every bit of this
What acts of terrorism did Lincoln commit? What state's rights did he infringe upon? Why did southern states secede before Lincoln was even inaugurated? Why was Lincoln so worried about being assassinated in 1861 that he had to sneak into DC?
Move them to museums then. We're celebrating them by having them in public. Or do you think we should put up statues to Benedict Arnold, Vietnam draft dodgers, etc. They did what they thought was right for their country. Should the Germans put up statues of Nazis? Should the Russians put up statues of Stalin and Lenin?
You're just going to go in circles here with this crowd. The very fact that you're educated on this more than most people makes you even less credible.
Removing confederate monuments ain't erasing history. You can go read about them in a museum or plaque somewhere. Those statues were put up to celebrate them. Screw 'em. They betrayed our country and fought to keep their fellow man as property and chattel.
That sir, would be your opinion. Those statues were erected in a different era. Different times. You dishonor those that lived and died in a different time that dictated war. In war you have cowards and heros. You don't honor cowards. You being enlightened and hindsight being what it is.
Ironic OP talks about history without know American history.
Those statues were erected to honor men who were traitors to their country and who fought to keep African Americans enslaved.
Having two history degrees from Clemson makes me a woke liberal or something I guess 😂
Ironic that OP used that quote when so many people in this thread want history to make them feel better
