Biden's plan to save Medicare

[Willence]

It's the same as every other plan he has. Tax people making over $400,000 a year more. It's ridiculous. Medicare is a plan that nearly everyone accesses and uses at some point in their life. I do agree with Biden that we need a higher contribution rate but a very small increase on everyone with more than suffice without continuing this discriminatory tax policy. Some of the reforms that they have put in place sound very good in theory but work far less effectively in practice. While I would favor a complete revamp of Medicare that will not happen in reality. But at least we can raise the contribution rate for everyone who works in this country to try to create a more solvent program going forward. The same is true of Social Security. There's no version of a future for Social Security that doesn't involve a contribution increase and probably a raising of the earned income level for contributions.

Opinion | Joe Biden: My Plan to Extend Medicare for Another Generation

Medicare is the rock-solid guarantee that Americans count on. My budget will make the Medicare trust fund solvent beyond 2050.

web.archive.org

 

[Willence]

Go ahead and move this to the round table. I didn't mean to post it here.

 

[okclem]

I'm surprised he has time to tackle any issues at all other than all the rioting, looting and violent crime that I was promised by the previous, outgoing administration.

Dude has absolutely crushed it outside of the Afghanistan debacle. I'd love to vote for a younger candidate next time, but since y'all are going to run the nazi orangutan again we really don't have much choice.

 

[housess1]

My father had Alzheimer's. The doctors in the Medicare Advantage system he was enrolled in ordered multiple MRIs through the years - verifying for no reason that yes, his brain showed deterioration. The fee for service model is broken and needs to be fixed.

 

[tigrbybirth]

Nationalizing our health care system, like virtually every other developed nation is the way to solve this problem. It would do a couple of unpopular things. First, it would reduce expensive at least partially elective procedures, like surgeries. Quality of care for the wealthy would go down, but quality of care on average would likely go up. We would have more preventative treatments, which would lead to fewer catastrophic needs. Big clue here, one is much more expensive than the other.

BTW, this is coming from someone who will pay higher taxes and who can afford whatever they need today. I am very much in the usual Republican demographic.

 

[Willence]

Nationalizing our health care system, like virtually every other developed nation is the way to solve this problem. It would do a couple of unpopular things. First, it would reduce expensive at least partially elective procedures, like surgeries. Quality of care for the wealthy would go down, but quality of care on average would likely go up. We would have more preventative treatments, which would lead to fewer catastrophic needs. Big clue here, one is much more expensive than the other.

BTW, this is coming from someone who will pay higher taxes and who can afford whatever they need today. I am very much in the usual Republican demographic.

No it won't. Nationalized healthcare is a disaster. But there are other ways to accomplish similar things without all these issues.

 

[scotchtiger]

It's the same as every other plan he has. Tax people making over $400,000 a year more. It's ridiculous. Medicare is a plan that nearly everyone accesses and uses at some point in their life. I do agree with Biden that we need a higher contribution rate but a very small increase on everyone with more than suffice without continuing this discriminatory tax policy. Some of the reforms that they have put in place sound very good in theory but work far less effectively in practice. While I would favor a complete revamp of Medicare that will not happen in reality. But at least we can raise the contribution rate for everyone who works in this country to try to create a more solvent program going forward. The same is true of Social Security. There's no version of a future for Social Security that doesn't involve a contribution increase and probably a raising of the earned income level for contributions.

Opinion | Joe Biden: My Plan to Extend Medicare for Another Generation

Medicare is the rock-solid guarantee that Americans count on. My budget will make the Medicare trust fund solvent beyond 2050.

web.archive.org

They should raise the eligibility age. Life expectancy has increased around 10 years since Medicare started, but the eligibility age has remained the same.

And I’m 100% against raising the income contribution limit. Once you are making $150K or whatever it is now, you don’t need to keep funding a retirement safety net. My wife and I already contribute an absurd amount to SS that will have a horrendous ROI.

 

[okclem]

No it won't. Nationalized healthcare is a disaster. But there are other ways to accomplish similar things without all these issues.

You don't understand anything but conservative talking points. Ask ANYONE (who isn't completely politically brainwashed like you) who lives in a country with nationalized healthcare and get back to me.

 

[Willence]

They should raise the eligibility age. Life expectancy has increased around 10 years since Medicare started, but the eligibility age has remained the same.

And I’m 100% against raising the income contribution limit. Once you are making $150K or whatever it is now, you don’t need to keep funding a retirement safety net. My wife and I already contribute an absurd amount to SS that will have a horrendous ROI.

Raising the age would help a lot and that is a easy first move. When a program like SS was instituted, it was believed life expectancy would be a relatively short time beyond the date payments began. I'm not sure, based on modeling, that it will get us over the finish. Some increase in the rate of contribution will be required. Of course, that should come with individualization of SS contributions and a total change to how we do things related to our big two programs. And all of this should come with the acknowledgement and understanding that our government has flat out robbed us of this money for many decades and that it is nothing short of criminal what has taken place.

 

[BlueRidgedf]

Raising the age would help a lot and that is a easy first move. When a program like SS was instituted, it was believed life expectancy would be a relatively short time beyond the date payments began. I'm not sure, based on modeling, that it will get us over the finish. Some increase in the rate of contribution will be required. Of course, that should come with individualization of SS contributions and a total change to how we do things related to our big two programs. And all of this should come with the acknowledgement and understanding that our government has flat out robbed us of this money for many decades and that it is nothing short of criminal what has taken place.

I agree they should raise the age. People are living to be 100. But the other side will demonize anybody who even mentions it.

 

[Jjh7]

You don't understand anything but conservative talking points. Ask ANYONE who lives in a country with nationalized healthcare and get back to me.

yea? well where do all the politicians and wealthy people in countries with nationalized healthcare go to receive medical treatment?

you do realize we heavily subsidize every country with nationalized healthcare right? here's some actual examples of countries with govt run healthcare - cant afford it, and its govt run so of course its incompetent. and again, we subsidize their healthcare systems, we cant shift the costs they do.

i've lived in the uk, and i can tell you there are many, many people who hate their healthcare. it can take weeks to get a doctors apt. it can take months to get a specialist apt.

U.K.'s Healthcare Horror Stories Ought To Curb Dems' Enthusiasm For Single-Payer

One look across the Atlantic, to the disaster unfolding in the United Kingdom's government-run healthcare system, ought to curb any enthusiasm for Medicare for All.

www.forbes.com

maybe you should check on canada. you know what canada's solution to people with diseases expensive to treat is now? they tell them to kill themselves. and hey, if they you need healthcare and they dont tell you to kill yourself, maybe youll be one of the lucky ones who dont die waiting for treatment/procedure. only had 13500 people die in 2021 waiting for treatment in a country of 30mm people, so thats pretty impressive. nationalized healthcare is a disaster.

Waiting List Deaths Hit Four-Year High - SecondStreet.Org

SecondStreet.org has released its annual Died on a Waiting List report for 2021-22. Once again, a troubling trend continues: more people are dying while waiting for surgery or diagnostic scans.

secondstreet.org

Waiting and Wanting to Die in Canada — Pain News Network

By Ann Marie Gaudon, PNN Columnist RIP Margaret Bristow October 23, 1959 – August 10, 2022 No, that’s not a typo. My friend Maggie will be dying in a few days, on August 10 to be exact. Confused? I am trying to make sense of this, too. One night a few months ago, I was hurting. Oh, my goodness

www.painnewsnetwork.org

'Faces of MAID' social media campaign opposes Canada's euthanasia program

People with disabilities have spoken out about their treatment, which has included being referred for MAID even though they are seeking medical care.

www.liveaction.org

you tell him he uses conservative talking points and what exactly is your case? because you said so? real good point, you know, unless reality and math are applied. gonna be a no for me dog.

 

[dpic73]

They should raise the eligibility age. Life expectancy has increased around 10 years since Medicare started, but the eligibility age has remained the same.

And I’m 100% against raising the income contribution limit. Once you are making $150K or whatever it is now, you don’t need to keep funding a retirement safety net. My wife and I already contribute an absurd amount to SS that will have a horrendous ROI.

Maybe they're living an extra ten years because they have access to Medicare 🤔

 

[scotchtiger]

Maybe they're living an extra ten years because they have access to Medicare 🤔

Lol. Or maybe modern medicine and innovation driven predominantly by America’s healthcare system.

 

[okclem]

yea? well where do all the politicians and wealthy people in countries with nationalized healthcare go to receive medical treatment?

you do realize we heavily subsidize every country with nationalized healthcare right? here's some actual examples of countries with govt run healthcare - cant afford it, and its govt run so of course its incompetent. and again, we subsidize their healthcare systems, we cant shift the costs they do.

i've lived in the uk, and i can tell you there are many, many people who hate their healthcare. it can take weeks to get a doctors apt. it can take months to get a specialist apt.

U.K.'s Healthcare Horror Stories Ought To Curb Dems' Enthusiasm For Single-Payer

One look across the Atlantic, to the disaster unfolding in the United Kingdom's government-run healthcare system, ought to curb any enthusiasm for Medicare for All.

www.forbes.com

maybe you should check on canada. you know what canada's solution to people with diseases expensive to treat is now? they tell them to kill themselves. and hey, if they you need healthcare and they dont tell you to kill yourself, maybe youll be one of the lucky ones who dont die waiting for treatment/procedure. only had 13500 people die in 2021 waiting for treatment in a country of 30mm people, so thats pretty impressive. nationalized healthcare is a disaster.

Waiting List Deaths Hit Four-Year High - SecondStreet.Org

SecondStreet.org has released its annual Died on a Waiting List report for 2021-22. Once again, a troubling trend continues: more people are dying while waiting for surgery or diagnostic scans.

secondstreet.org

Waiting and Wanting to Die in Canada — Pain News Network

By Ann Marie Gaudon, PNN Columnist RIP Margaret Bristow October 23, 1959 – August 10, 2022 No, that’s not a typo. My friend Maggie will be dying in a few days, on August 10 to be exact. Confused? I am trying to make sense of this, too. One night a few months ago, I was hurting. Oh, my goodness

www.painnewsnetwork.org

'Faces of MAID' social media campaign opposes Canada's euthanasia program

People with disabilities have spoken out about their treatment, which has included being referred for MAID even though they are seeking medical care.

www.liveaction.org

you tell him he uses conservative talking points and what exactly is your case? because you said so? real good point, you know, unless reality and math are applied. gonna be a no for me dog.

So be it

 

[flotiger]

They should raise the eligibility age. Life expectancy has increased around 10 years since Medicare started, but the eligibility age has remained the same.

And I’m 100% against raising the income contribution limit. Once you are making $150K or whatever it is now, you don’t need to keep funding a retirement safety net. My wife and I already contribute an absurd amount to SS that will have a horrendous ROI.

I disagree. I think it should be $400K or so before you max out. And I, like apparently all TI'ers, do well financially and max out half way through the year at least. I just think it's the right thing to do.

 

[okclem]

I disagree. I think it should be $400K or so before you max out. And I, like apparently all TI'ers, do well financially and max out half way through the year at least. I just think it's the right thing to do.

Forget the right thing, dawg. You gotta get yours. You matter more than the other people. You're different. You're special.

 

[scotchtiger]

Forget the right thing, dawg. You gotta get yours. You matter more than the other people. You're different. You're special.

Lol. Easily said when you aren’t being asked to pay more. At least flo is putting some of his money on the line.

 

[okclem]

Lol. Easily said when you aren’t being asked to pay more. At least flo is putting some of his money on the line.

Yeah, you have no idea what my personal holdings are, because I don't discuss them.

Philosophically, @flotiger is right and you are selfish.

 

[scotchtiger]

I disagree. I think it should be $400K or so before you max out. And I, like apparently all TI'ers, do well financially and max out half way through the year at least. I just think it's the right thing to do.

It’s fine you believe that. Maybe make it optional above the cutoff so people who believe it is the right thing to do can make that additional contribution.

Considering what I pay in totality to the federal government, there is no way in hell I could advocate for any increase.

 

[scotchtiger]

Yeah, you have no idea what my personal holdings are, because I don't discuss them.

Philosophically, @flotiger is right and you are selfish.

It’s selfish to contribute >30% of your income to the federal government and think that’s enough? What’s the number for being unselfish? 40%? Half?

 

[okclem]

It’s selfish to contribute >30% of your income to the federal government and think that’s enough? What’s the number for being unselfish? 40%? Half?

@flotiger is much closer to the number than you are.

 

[scotchtiger]

@flotiger is much closer to the number than you are.

What number? He posted a SS cap and I posted total % contributions.

Btw, as taxpayers reach the SS cap, they are simultaneously thrust into the 32/35/37% income tax tiers. So this group is already getting hammered with more taxes once they reach this threshold.

 

[okclem]

What number? He posted a SS cap and I posted total % contributions.

Btw, as taxpayers reach the SS cap, they are simultaneously thrust into the 32/35/37% income tax tiers. So this group is already getting hammered with more taxes once they reach this threshold.

Dude I don't have all the answers. I'm not an expert in economics by any stretch. It ain't my job to have the answer. But i can have opinions based on what I do know, and mine is that his take is way, way better than yours.

I've read all your posts on this stuff, and as far as I'm concerned you don't think you should pay your fair share. If you think I'm wrong, great. It doesn't matter.

 

[CUT93]

Forget the right thing, dawg. You gotta get yours. You matter more than the other people. You're different. You're special.

So I assume you already contribute extra $$$ to the govt over what you are required to pay in taxes since this is the right thing to do, right? Surely all democrats who want to do this contribute more than they have to pay in taxes to the govt so they can provide more services without the govt having to take their $$ from them.

 

[okclem]

So I assume you already contribute extra $$$ to the govt over what you are required to pay in taxes since this is the right thing to do, right? Surely all democrats who want to do this contribute more than they have to pay in taxes to the govt so they can provide more services without the govt having to take their $$ from them.

Jesus Christ you people just don't even understand sincerity anymore. You just want to be on the winning side, which is curious since your side keeps getting its fvcking ass kicked.

 

[CUT93]

Lost in all this madness is the fact that SS was never meant to be a long term program of life long income. It was supposed to be an emergency stop gap measure in response to the great depression. This is according to the democrat who instituted it.

This is exactly the problem with implementing more/new govt assistance. It will never end.

If you are buying alcohol, tobacco, candy, eating out, driving a car less than 15 yrs old, have an iphone, wear name brand clothes, etc., the govt has no business taking my money and giving it to you to pay for your - food, kids, housing, etc.

 

[CUT93]

Jesus Christ you people just don't even understand sincerity anymore. You just want to be on the winning side, which is curious since your side keeps getting its fvcking ass kicked.

Nice sincere deflection.

 

[okclem]

Nice sincere deflection.

I'm sorry I didn't answer your very dumb, unrealistic question. The answer is no.

 

[CUT93]

I'm sorry I didn't answer your very dumb, unrealistic question. The answer is no.

Oh, I knew the answer. It just proves the absurdity of your "right thing" argument. If you think it is the right thing to do(to give more $$$ to the govt to use) then no one should have to make you do that right thing. Is it only the right thing to do if other people have to do it also?

Edit to ask why it is "unrealistic"? There is an option to contribute to the govt above what you are required to.

 

[okclem]

Oh, I knew the answer. It just proves the absurdity of your "right thing" argument. If you think it is the right thing to do(to give more $$$ to the govt to use) then no one should have to make you do that right thing. Is it only the right thing to do if other people have to do it also?

Are you even aware that you're talking about a hypothetical scenario that couldn't possibly happen, even if I wanted to donate all my money to the government?

If you want to join those of us back here in reality, you're welcome back any time.

 

[CUT93]

Are you even aware that you're talking about a hypothetical scenario that couldn't possibly happen, even if I wanted to donate all my money to the government?

If you want to join those of us back here in reality, you're welcome back any time.

As usual, you have no idea what you are talking about. It is you who do not live in reality. Give to your heart's content, brother.

Bureau of the Fiscal Service - Public

www.fiscal.treasury.gov

 

[scotchtiger]

Dude I don't have all the answers. I'm not an expert in economics by any stretch. It ain't my job to have the answer. But i can have opinions based on what I do know, and mine is that his take is way, way better than yours.

I've read all your posts on this stuff, and as far as I'm concerned you don't think you should pay your fair share. If you think I'm wrong, great. It doesn't matter.

But that’s just it. You don’t know how to define “fair share.” I pay an ass of taxes. Over 30% of my family’s income goes to the federal government. And I’m not some rich guy.

Most pay farrrrrr less. Many pay nearly nothing. So how do we measure fair share? The hardworking family paying a massive tax bill are the selfish people? Come on.

You just think I should pay more, regardless of if it’s fair or not. You don’t care about that, or don’t understand enough to know better.

 

[Willence]

But that’s just it. You don’t know how to define “fair share.” I pay an ass of taxes. Over 30% of my family’s income goes to the federal government. And I’m not some rich guy.

Most pay farrrrrr less. Many pay nearly nothing. So how do we measure fair share? The hardworking family paying a massive tax bill are the selfish people? Come on.

You just think I should pay more, regardless of if it’s fair or not. You don’t care about that, or don’t understand enough to know better.

The wealthy pay far far beyond their fair share of taxes. Way beyond what they should be paying. Just look at the statistics and it tells the tale. They pay far outside of their percentage of total earnings in the country. It's not even remotely fair what we do now.

 

[TigerGrowls]

I agree they should raise the age. People are living to be 100. But the other side will demonize anybody who even mentions it.

The average life expectancy has actually dipped slightly in recent years.

 

[scotchtiger]

The wealthy pay far far beyond their fair share of taxes. Way beyond what they should be paying. Just look at the statistics and it tells the tale. They pay far outside of their percentage of total earnings in the country. It's not even remotely fair what we do now.

You're just selfish and don't want to pay your fair share. Who gives a shit about the math, this is how I feel.

 

[nytigerfan]

But that’s just it. You don’t know how to define “fair share.” I pay an ass of taxes. Over 30% of my family’s income goes to the federal government. And I’m not some rich guy.

Most pay farrrrrr less. Many pay nearly nothing. So how do we measure fair share? The hardworking family paying a massive tax bill are the selfish people? Come on.

You just think I should pay more, regardless of if it’s fair or not. You don’t care about that, or don’t understand enough to know better.

You only pay 30% as a W2?

 

[scotchtiger]

You only pay 30% as a W2?

Effective rate once you factor in all deductions, wife's pass-thru income, progressive tax tiers, etc. Marginal rate is 37%.

 

[Willence]

Effective rate once you factor in all deductions, wife's pass-thru income, progressive tax tiers, etc. Marginal rate is 37%.

Far too high.

 

[Jjh7]

So be it

thought so

 

[scotchtiger]

Relevant: https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/09/poli...ement-age-social-security-medicare/index.html