**New** (Larry) Voices carry

[Gentleman Jim 70]

Voices carry

Thanks for the insightful article. As an alumnus I'm embarrassed to admit I was unaware of Tillman's history or recent debate over removing his name. I agree with you. Good contributions to Clemson's founding, but bad dude.

 

[TigerTemp]

I wish i could find the first person to make that excuse so i could shoot them in the face with my legally owned AR-15.

T
Do you really want to shoot me in the face? It's not a great face, but my wife is fond of it. Do us all a favor and take a moment to calm yourself before you reply next time. If you don't think this is the first step on the slippery slope to the removal of other monuments, re-naming of buildings, etc then you are fooling yourself. Just read the news....Kentucky calling for the removal of a statue of Jefferson Davis, Mississippi a bust of Davis, a local cemetery where I have relatives buried discussing removal of their Confederate memorial and this has all happened within the last few days. Don't be naive and please no more threats.

 

[CUT93]

Honest questions: What other issues do you speak of that would have caused a later war? My studies have shown ever major issue (can list if like) a major if not the major component was slavery. To your point about northerners if by that you mean border states you would be correct, but to say "many" is simply inaccurate (link: http://www.civil-war.net/pages/1860_census.html). With all due respect if there is a false interpretation that has been spread it is about the entire conflict and flag, specifically its place on the state house. Before you may assume I'm a believer the South was and is the horrible place that is not true either. To say racism existed in the South only due to racism is completely inaccurate and not supported by history, so I don't appreciate that label being stuck solely on the South, who in many ways I feel has progressed as much if not more than other areas of the country. I also do agree the men that fought and died for the confederacy did so for a belief in protecting their homes from "oppression", but to that again I pose you a question. If a majority of these men were poor and illiterate, mainly due to lack of educational opportunities offered due to lack of infrastructure in plantation based south, would they truly understand the goals of the wealthy leaders who led them into secession? Oh and in reference to the group(s) you say decided it was a symbol of hate you must mean the KKK, Segregationists, Neo-Nazis, or other racists groups that have waved it proudly.

The "other issues" were not necessarily issues that currently existed. My point was that slavery was an example (albeit unquestionably the largest by far) of a states rights/northern oppression issue and that there almost certainly would have been other issues to arise as well that would have eventually tipped the scales in favor of war.

If a majority of these men were poor and illiterate, mainly due to lack of educational opportunities offered due to lack of infrastructure in plantation based south, would they truly understand the goals of the wealthy leaders who led them into secession? ---- We will assume this accurate for the sake of the argument.

Even if the above is 100% correct, it means that the motivation for these individuals was not slavery even if that was the motivation for those who "lead" them into the conflict. Again, my point was that for many people, it was not simply, or even primarily, a slavery issue. Many of the families who fought may have well(at least to some degree) fallen into the category you describe. Still, their motivation was not to be able to keep slaves. This is a large portion of my point. Those families and their ancestors for who the flag represented/s the "heritage" of those families should not have to be punished or impacted just because some other groups have distorted and altered what the flag represents.

A modern day example would be that in many muslim countries, the American Flag likely represents hatred of muslim people by Americans. Does this mean that we should stop flying the flag? No, because that is not what the flag represents even though that may be the majority view in some places. This is not an exact correlation I know, but it is an example of a distorted view by some that is not accurate.

 

[TigerLion06]

T
Do you really want to shoot me in the face? It's not a great face, but my wife is fond of it. Do us all a favor and take a moment to calm yourself before you reply next time. If you don't think this is the first step on the slippery slope to the removal of other monuments, re-naming of buildings, etc then you are fooling yourself. Just read the news....Kentucky calling for the removal of a statue of Jefferson Davis, Mississippi a bust of Davis, a local cemetery where I have relatives buried discussing removal of their Confederate memorial and this has all happened within the last few days. Don't be naive and please no more threats.

If you are stupid enough to think i was serious then by all means save my bullets and off yourself. Really? The person that used that excuse first is dead most likely. I didn't mean to confuse you. Honestly.