SCOTUS Ruling: No Racial Discrimination in College Admissions

[scotchtiger]

The Supreme Court found it unconstitutional to consider race in university admissions. Do you agree or disagree with the ruling?

“Eliminating racial discrimination means eliminating all of it,” Chief Justice John Roberts wrote for the court, joined by Justices Clarence Thomas, Samuel Alito, Neil Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett. “The student must be treated based on his or her experiences as an individual—not on the basis of race."

Supreme Court Strikes Down Affirmative Action in College Admissions

Justices rule race-conscious admissions policies at Harvard and UNC are unconstitutional

www.wsj.com

 

[OleFastball]

Duh.

Treat everyone equally.

 

[WapPride]

I think this is going to be the next evolution of AA:

 

[BlueRidgedf]

This case was brought by Asian American students and somehow the sheep news media is blaming "whitey" .

 

[BlueRidgedf]

And I hope the Supreme Court will tackle the stupid student loan forgiveness that should be a 9-0 ruling. But I'm not holding my breath the 3 radicals on the left will vote the right way.

 

[Johnny Mundo]

Solid win for Trump IMO

 

[WapPride]

This case was brought by Asian American students and somehow the sheep news media is blaming "whitey" .

Actually, the lawsuit was crafted by an organization with the sole purpose of getting this case brought before a rightward leaning Supreme Court. You're welcome to read up on him if you'd like.

Edward Blum (litigant) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

That being said, it's not going to make a difference, Colleges/Universities will continue accepting whoever they want. See below.

 

[PAWrocka]

I think this is going to be the next evolution of AA:

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I’d also weight public school students higher than private school student for public university admissions.

Do what you want for private school admissions (as long as a school is not discriminating on race, religion, and sexual orientation), but … public Universities? Naw …

 

[spskillz]

Duh.

Treat everyone equally.

I can’t speak for other ethnicities, but black folks continue to need more opportunities considering the deficit from the last 300 years. That’s ok though, if a university really cares they can work around it.

 

[scotchtiger]

I can’t speak for other ethnicities, but black folks continue to need more opportunities considering the deficit from the last 300 years. That’s ok though, if a university really cares they can work around it.

I think the counter argument is how to say who has a deficit and who does not. Does a first generation Mexican or Asian immigrant really have less of a deficit than an African American whose parents grew up in the 80s and 90s?

 

[scotchtiger]

And I hope the Supreme Court will tackle the stupid student loan forgiveness that should be a 9-0 ruling. But I'm not holding my breath the 3 radicals on the left will vote the right way.

Yea the student loan handout is just garbage. Should be an easy decision.

 

[scotchtiger]

I think this is going to be the next evolution of AA:

View embedded media

There’s a historical African American community right down the road for me. Zoned for the same elementary school as my kids. In the middle of Mt. Pleasant where homes are routinely $1-2M+.

Are you proposing that admissions should discriminate against those children?

 

[spskillz]

I think the counter argument is how to say who has a deficit and who does not. Does a first generation Mexican or Asian immigrant really have less of a deficit than an African American whose parents grew up in the 80s and 90s?

I think black folks and American slavery are a special circumstance.

 

[scotchtiger]

I think black folks and American slavery are a special circumstance.

Sure. But that ended 158 years ago. AA families have had more time to establish themselves in both post-slavery and post-civil rights America than immigrant families. So I'm not sure why there would be special treatment.

 

[WapPride]

There’s a historical African American community right down the road for me. Zoned for the same elementary school as my kids. In the middle of Mt. Pleasant where homes are routinely $1-2M+.

Are you proposing that admissions should discriminate against those children?

I have no idea as it's not my proposal. That's just what I think the next evolutionary step is going to be.

I do think that's a decent idea to help those from poor/rural areas who don't have the resources kids who grow up in wealthy areas have, though. It's definitely not going to solve all the issues, but I think it's good to have discussions about this because it's an important topic.

 

[WapPride]

Sure. But that ended 158 years ago. AA families have had more time to establish themselves in both post-slavery and post-civil rights America than immigrant families. So I'm not sure why there would be special treatment.

They didn't get the right to vote until 59 years ago, the majority were denied their GI Bill benefits post WW2 which prevented them from purchasing homes, going to college, and refused them a healthy foundation to build towards the middle class.

I think @adgjunior or @dbjork6317 had a great writeup a few weeks ago about all of this.

 

[spskillz]

Sure. But that ended 158 years ago. AA families have had more time to establish themselves in both post-slavery and post-civil rights America than immigrant families. So I'm not sure why there would be special treatment.

I’m sure you are aware that black folks still weren’t given a fair shake until the 90s or so even though slavery ended long ago. Then, it takes a few generations.

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

Solid win for Trump IMO

SUPER MAGA win

Super win for country

Super win for Black folks

The race based laws have to end

Laws should be for all people applied equally as possible

Let ‘s work at making a better society and America through unity and meritocracy providing equal opportunity through an equal starting point that does NOT guarantee an equal outcome

Kill all equity based programs

Encourage diversity and inclusive by focusing on individuals and kindness and compassion

 

[scotchtiger]

I’m sure you are aware that black folks still weren’t given a fair shake until the 90s or so even though slavery ended long ago. Then, it takes a few generations.

A few generations? Starting from the 90s?

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

I’m sure you are aware that black folks still weren’t given a fair shake until the 90s or so even though slavery ended long ago. Then, it takes a few generations.

I heard some Japanese and Chinese Americans say the same thing

It does not take generations unless you want it to

Pull on the man and lady pants and get it done

There are lots of white and Latin Americans who are thinking that they are entitled

I don’t know you personally but leaving the victim entitlement argument behind you will work better

Its called agency

Education, literacy and manners will carry you a long way in lieu of the victim mentality

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

I can’t speak for other ethnicities, but black folks continue to need more opportunities considering the deficit from the last 300 years. That’s ok though, if a university really cares they can work around it.

You don’t know me personally and probably by my tough love style approach think I am against equality and opportunity

Nothing could be farther from the truth

Working like hell on initiative's trying to improve quality of life in a regional area in South Carolina Through government and volunteer programs

The one important thing is getting people literate

If you want to be poor be illiterate and have a anchor baby out of wedlock

Guarantees poverty

That is in itself a huge problem that needs to be overcome particularly with fatherless black and white families

 

[dpic73]

I heard some Japanese and Chinese Americans say the same thing

It does not take generations unless you want it to

Pull on the man and lady pants and get it done

There are lots of white and Latin Americans who are thinking that they are entitled

I don’t know you personally but leaving the victim entitlement argument behind you will work better

Its called agency

Education, literacy and manners will carry you a long way in lieu of the victim mentality

He's talking about generational wealth you ding dong. Ever heard of redlining for instance?

 

[Willence]

I think black folks and American slavery are a special circumstance.

I guess it depends on what your view of the goal is/was. For me, I think Justice Thomas summed it up perfectly when he said:

"While I am painfully aware of the social and economic ravages which have befallen my race and all who suffer discrimination, I hold out enduring hope that this country will live up to its principles so clearly enunciated in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States: that all men are created equal, are equal citizens, and must be treated equally before the law,”

And continued to say in response to Justice Jackson's dissent aimed at Justice Thomas:

(Jackson's)“...race-infused world view falls flat at each step. Individuals are the sum of their unique experiences, challenges, and accomplishments. What matters is not the barriers they face, but how they choose to confront them. And their race is not to blame for everything—good or bad—that happens in their lives. A contrary, myopic world view based on individuals’ skin color to the total exclusion of their personal choices is nothing short of racial determinism.”

Growing up in Columbia, Maryland in the 1980's the community decided that everyone should be treated equally. It wasn't about making up for past transgressions that could never be accounted for. It was just a decision to have a community that provides opportunity for all. Most of my friends happened to be of another race than me. But that stuff didn't matter because we were all brothers. Many received benefits with respect college acceptance due to Affirmative Action. Many would say today (including my best friend) that they were admitted to a school they weren't equipped to handle and it set them back significantly.

Getting into the wrong school isn't a racial thing. I was a very average student with excellent SAT scores. Had I gotten into Duke, I would have been in way over my head. I just didn't have the chops to make it at a place like that because I lacked the discipline and study habits to succeed at Duke.

My own belief is we need to do everything possible to provide as equal an opportunity for all as possible. That starts by dealing with our horrendous public education system that is doing a horrible job serving so many of the most vulnerable in our society. It also involves promoting families and promoting marriage. If we're lifting people up who don't have a solid foundation, all we're doing is increasing the damage from the impending fall. I think we should aspire for more in our efforts to overcome our past sins.

 

[scotchtiger]

He's talking about generational wealth you ding dong. Ever heard of redlining for instance?

What generational wealth do immigrants have? Heck, I haven't received any generational wealth or inheritance. And both of my parents grew up blue collar / middle class at best with no generational wealth.

 

[Willence]

What generational wealth do immigrants have? Heck, I haven't received any generational wealth or inheritance. And both of my parents grew up blue collar / middle class at best with no generational wealth.

Nigerians are among the most successful demographic populations in this country. They certainly didn't come with generational wealth in most cases. The average income in Nigeria is around $9k per year. We need to stop creating all these disingenuous arguments and instead start solving problems.

We need to be very leery of people who want to use government to fix everything. I can understand why they get so upset because their power to try and control everyone is threatened. As Justice Thomas also said in his concurrence...

“Jackson then builds from her faulty premise to call for action, arguing that courts should defer to ‘experts’ and allow institutions to discriminate on the basis of race. Make no mistake: Her dissent is not a vanguard of the innocent and helpless. It is instead a call to empower privileged elites, who will ‘tell us [what] is required to level the playing field’ among castes and classifications that they alone can divine…Then, after siloing us all into racial castes and pitting those castes against each other, the dis-sent somehow believes that we will be able—at some undefined point—to ‘march forward together’ into some utopian vision…Social movements that invoke these sorts of rallying cries, historically, have ended disastrously.”

 

[spskillz]

A few generations? Starting from the 90s?

Yes sir.

 

[spskillz]

I guess it depends on what your view of the goal is/was. For me, I think Justice Thomas summed it up perfectly when he said:

"While I am painfully aware of the social and economic ravages which have befallen my race and all who suffer discrimination, I hold out enduring hope that this country will live up to its principles so clearly enunciated in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States: that all men are created equal, are equal citizens, and must be treated equally before the law,”

And continued to say in response to Justice Jackson's dissent aimed at Justice Thomas:

(Jackson's)“...race-infused world view falls flat at each step. Individuals are the sum of their unique experiences, challenges, and accomplishments. What matters is not the barriers they face, but how they choose to confront them. And their race is not to blame for everything—good or bad—that happens in their lives. A contrary, myopic world view based on individuals’ skin color to the total exclusion of their personal choices is nothing short of racial determinism.”

Growing up in Columbia, Maryland in the 1980's the community decided that everyone should be treated equally. It wasn't about making up for past transgressions that could never be accounted for. It was just a decision to have a community that provides opportunity for all. Most of my friends happened to be of another race than me. But that stuff didn't matter because we were all brothers. Many received benefits with respect college acceptance due to Affirmative Action. Many would say today (including my best friend) that they were admitted to a school they weren't equipped to handle and it set them back significantly.

Getting into the wrong school isn't a racial thing. I was a very average student with excellent SAT scores. Had I gotten into Duke, I would have been in way over my head. I just didn't have the chops to make it at a place like that because I lacked the discipline and study habits to succeed at Duke.

My own belief is we need to do everything possible to provide as equal an opportunity for all as possible. That starts by dealing with our horrendous public education system that is doing a horrible job serving so many of the most vulnerable in our society. It also involves promoting families and promoting marriage. If we're lifting people up who don't have a solid foundation, all we're doing is increasing the damage from the impending fall. I think we should aspire for more in our efforts to overcome our past sins.

I don’t have the same “enduring hope” that folks will do the right thing. I don’t remotely understand Justice T’s viewpoint but I won’t be disrespectful.

 

[dpic73]

What generational wealth do immigrants have? Heck, I haven't received any generational wealth or inheritance. And both of my parents grew up blue collar / middle class at best with no generational wealth.

I really don't want to get in the weeds here but they didn't "immigrate" here in the traditional sense and they have a good argument. I'd like to leave it at that.

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

I guess it depends on what your view of the goal is/was. For me, I think Justice Thomas summed it up perfectly when he said:

"While I am painfully aware of the social and economic ravages which have befallen my race and all who suffer discrimination, I hold out enduring hope that this country will live up to its principles so clearly enunciated in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States: that all men are created equal, are equal citizens, and must be treated equally before the law,”

And continued to say in response to Justice Jackson's dissent aimed at Justice Thomas:

(Jackson's)“...race-infused world view falls flat at each step. Individuals are the sum of their unique experiences, challenges, and accomplishments. What matters is not the barriers they face, but how they choose to confront them. And their race is not to blame for everything—good or bad—that happens in their lives. A contrary, myopic world view based on individuals’ skin color to the total exclusion of their personal choices is nothing short of racial determinism.”

Growing up in Columbia, Maryland in the 1980's the community decided that everyone should be treated equally. It wasn't about making up for past transgressions that could never be accounted for. It was just a decision to have a community that provides opportunity for all. Most of my friends happened to be of another race than me. But that stuff didn't matter because we were all brothers. Many received benefits with respect college acceptance due to Affirmative Action. Many would say today (including my best friend) that they were admitted to a school they weren't equipped to handle and it set them back significantly.

Getting into the wrong school isn't a racial thing. I was a very average student with excellent SAT scores. Had I gotten into Duke, I would have been in way over my head. I just didn't have the chops to make it at a place like that because I lacked the discipline and study habits to succeed at Duke.

My own belief is we need to do everything possible to provide as equal an opportunity for all as possible. That starts by dealing with our horrendous public education system that is doing a horrible job serving so many of the most vulnerable in our society. It also involves promoting families and promoting marriage. If we're lifting people up who don't have a solid foundation, all we're doing is increasing the damage from the impending fall. I think we should aspire for more in our efforts to overcome our past sins.

Willence

Your comment about public schools is dead on

South Carolina and where I live came out of Covid with abysmal testing scores for being at grade level

I use the following example in meetings. If Clemson or South Carolina only was winning 1 to 2 games a year out of 10 there would be huge outcries

The testing of local students where I live only has 1 or 2 out of 10 testing to expected grade competency

if Clemson was 2-8 and South Carolina was 1-9 there would be coaching changes and outcries

This us what the public schools are putting out as a product now

That creates a huge disparity with students as white , Asian and affluent blacks are wholesale fleeing public education.

We have to teach the math, English, reading and sciences and stop the freaking social engineering

That is the facts

 

[dbjork6317]

“The student must be treated based on his or her experiences as an individual—not on the basis of race."

I really enjoy that this line by Roberts completely misses the point that a person’s race has a dramatic impact on their experiences as an individual.

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

I don’t have the same “enduring hope” that folks will do the right thing. I don’t remotely understand Justice T’s viewpoint but I won’t be disrespectful.

Dear spskillz

Again you don’t know me but I am fighting the good fight for a better America on my local level

In my area we are 70 per cent black 30 per cent white but I am focusing on unity , building the local community and fighting to create opportunity in any way I can along with opportunity for all

The ending of government mandate
discrimination will do wonders for Americans

If you can keep the faith and join in on equality of opportunity you will be amazed in time and I mean a reasonable time

Elitest do not want solutions

They want chaos and hate

I want solutions

 

[spskillz]

Dear spskillz

Again you don’t know me but I am fighting the good fight for a better America on my local level

In my area we are 70 per cent black 30 per cent white but I am focusing on unity , building the local community and fighting to create opportunity in any way I can along with opportunity for all

The ending of government mandate
discrimination will do wonders for Americans

If you can keep the faith and join in on equality of opportunity you will be amazed in time and I mean a reasonable time

Elitest do not want solutions

They want chaos and hate

I want solutions

I have trouble keeping the faith as I start to embark on my drive home from work on Wade Hampton Blvd.

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

I have trouble keeping the faith as I start to embark on my drive home from work on Wade Hampton Blvd.

I can’t be you and understand exactly how you feel , but I will listen to your concerns and put them into the programs we are working on if they will help make America a better place for us all.

BTW I am a 72 year old white guy supporting Tim Scott. I don’t think he can win but he will make a difference and I hope he will be the VP

 

[spskillz]

I can’t be you and understand exactly how you feel , but I will listen to your concerns and put them into the programs we are working on if they will help make America a better place for us all.

BTW I am a 72 year old white guy supporting Tim Scott. I don’t think he can win but he will make a difference and I hope he will be the VP

I appreciate that you are fighting the good fight.

On Scott, I’m excited to see he and Haley develop as candidates. Right now I prefer Haley over the two and Scott has to stop allowing people to race bait him. Obviously it’s a position everyone has to touch but it seems to be the only thing they publish on him. I’d like to see a R candidate that isn’t simply trying to bring shock value like Trump and DeSantis. Don’t really want to vote for Biden if I can help it.

 

[scotchtiger]

I appreciate that you are fighting the good fight.

On Scott, I’m excited to see he and Haley develop as candidates. Right now I prefer Haley over the two and Scott has to stop allowing people to race bait him. Obviously it’s a position everyone has to touch but it seems to be the only thing they publish on him. I’d like to see a R candidate that isn’t simply trying to bring shock value like Trump and DeSantis. Don’t really want to vote for Biden if I can help it.

Yea I think Scott gets pigeon holed into the race topic. But he’s a great guy. And would be a good uniter for the country.

I like Haley too, but don’t think she has any momentum at this point. And she’s taboo for the trumpers for some reason.

I don’t want Desantis either. More culture wars and division. And I won’t vote for trump.

 

[firegiver]

I really enjoy that this line by Roberts completely misses the point that a person’s race has a dramatic impact on their experiences as an individual.

Its not a mistake i would argue. They make exceptions in the ruling for military and police academies... why the hell would they do that? Oh wait i know. Get em out of college and force them there.
Its blatant on the face. If you need it for these schools... then why not UNC and Harvard

 

[firegiver]

Sure. But that ended 158 years ago. AA families have had more time to establish themselves in both post-slavery and post-civil rights America than immigrant families. So I'm not sure why there would be special treatment.

Ok but redlining further disenfranchised black fold until the mid 60s. The rights of blacks werent truly set until then. So they got 1 maybe 2 generations of aa and thats it? Sheesh i think thats messed up. But Kevin Mccarthy says NOW its fair. Based on ****ing what?
The AA policy was based on stats. Roberts and team destroyed presecedent based on their feelings.

 

[scotchtiger]

Ok but redlining further disenfranchised black fold until the mid 60s. The rights of blacks werent truly set until then. So they got 1 maybe 2 generations of aa and thats it? Sheesh i think thats messed up. But Kevin Mccarthy says NOW its fair. Based on ****ing what?
The AA policy was based on stats. Roberts and team destroyed legislation based on their feelings.

So a recent immigrant, or a child of a piece of shit white trash family - how exactly are they somehow in a better place than a black person whose grandparents experienced racism 60+ years ago?

 

[firegiver]

So a recent immigrant, or a child of a piece of shit white trash family - how exactly are they somehow in a better place than a black person whose grandparents experienced racism 60+ years ago?

But that question is so empty. Did Reagan run drugs via the cia from that families country? Destroying their democratically elected government along the way and plunging them into a ****ing hellscape that they had to run from?
Anyway put a pin in that topic.
1: African people didnt volunteer to come here.
2: while your family and any 'White' family were allowed access to this countries voting snd financial rights since before we declared independence. Theres was not allowed any property or even written language.
3: just because you dont see the racism now codified in our laws doesnt mean its harm doesnt persist.

You are belittling the effects of slavery and the racist laws that this country and its people chose to enshrine for the majority of its existence.

Your great great great grandad had land and access to education and financing that they were never allowed. You think stealing that right away and forcing them to not have higher learning for 350 years is wiped out in 60? Sheesh

 

[scotchtiger]

Your great great great grandad had land and access to education and financing that they were never allowed. You think stealing that right away and forcing them to not have higher learning for 350 years is wiped out in 60? Sheesh

Wrong.

My great great great grandfathers lived in other countries. So they certainly didn’t have access to some magical education, land and financing.

My great grandfathers didn’t move here until well after the civil war. I’m roughly 4th generation American on average with most coming around the turn of the 20th century.

All of my great grand and grand parents were very, very blue collar/middle class. No land to speak of other than a super modest home, maybe. No sophisticated financing. No college education.

My family’s college education - the entirety of it - began in 1968 when my father enrolled at Clemson. Of course this was already post civil rights.

So don’t give me some shit about generations of privilege of land and education. That’s not the case for me nor for most Americans.