Way to go Gov. Haley
- Thread starter tigerpaw47
- Start date
The people that represent themselves with the American flag, as a whole, have taken steps to right those wrongs. It may be far from perfect but at least steps have been taken, many steps actually.
What have those that represent themselves with the confederate flag done?
Your first paragraph makes little sense. Who is quoting the 60s? You're the one bringing it up. Are you an expert on SC? No, you've never lived or worked in this state. So, you're on some board @ Clemson and visited Charleston a dozen times? Did you see separate eating areas, bathrooms, schools?
And I said I'm for the flag going down @ the statehouse. Ask Wanda Sykes (the comedianne) about her heritage and slave ownership.
And, when did this get into slavery? There is nothing that can change that fact.
Yea, minority votes statistics, you're the one saying satistics are lies. I've voted many times in my lifetime and I live in a high minority district. I've never seen someone turned away, harassed, etc.
You just love to make shat up and see if it sticks. Go do something good for your own community. DC has a history of racial divide as well. Charleston did not become another Ferguson or Baltimore and people like you just can't stand it.
The KKK represents itself with the American flag and Christian Cross
ISIS represents itself as a state for Muslims
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http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/opinionator/2012/01/17/shermans-southern-sympathies/?referrer=
Here's a NY times article for you. He owned slaves, thought if you kept a slave family together that it increased their value, and how he was a White Supremacist. Not my words
I'm not sure what the groups "Sons and daughters of the American Confederacy" have done. I'm sure they've done some nice things over the years, just don't have the details.
Peeople who are still alive today were interned during World War II in camps because of their race under the American Flag, but that is not my point.
Well I'll be damned. The embassy is no longer selling it
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/22/politics/confederate-flag-walmart-south-carolina/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/22/politics/confederate-flag-walmart-south-carolina/index.html
The people that represent themselves with that flag have done nothing in terms of forgiveness.
Do you realize the people in those internment camps or their surving families received an official apology and $20,000 from the US government who admitted that it was race-based...
The article (from the NY Times, gag) never said he owned slaves. As I said in my earlier post to suggest these two generals owned slaves while leading the Yankee armies is ridiculous. Many Yankees were racist but that has nothing to do with your assertion slaves were owned after the 13th Amendment was passed. Your misinformation shows a complete misunderstanding of the law, the issues surrounding the war and reconstruction. To lambaste me for pointing this out is beyond comment.
Hopefully that is photoshopped. Otherwise another reason I'm glad I didn't support her against that other Tiger.personally, I think the hat should come off.....and she should have one-bombed him
So the Missouri Comprise, Bloody Kansas and John Brown's raid on Harper's Ferry were not preludes to the War Between the States?
You are right about Civil War. I had nothing to do with it or the hundred years after. They've have been travesties on both sides. For the people who suffered these things is a real shame. What happen to the 9 victims is unforgivable. It shouldn't be used as a podium for a politician to get on and sway voters, or say look at me. The flag didn't cause it. If you want to know what did we all need to look at ourselves. This idiot that done this horrible crime was probably raised to hate African Americans. I know some African Americans that are raised to hate whites. No politician can solve this problem we have to solve this as people of this race (Human Race) in our homes. If you have suffered any unfair treatment it wasn't by my hand and it's unfortunate that you did. The only other thing I will say is Americans have become great complainers. We need to get back to being great doers and the only way to do that is together.
I don't think the Charleston events should have been used as a stepping stone to fight to bring the flag down either. Really insignificant compared to nine lives IMO. But, since it was brought up I gave my opinion, and I do think it should come down. It's one thing for some guy to wear it on a T-shirt or his car bumper. It's another for our state's government to do it.
It's called progress, and doing the right thing. I imagine proponents of slavery posed a similar question 150 years ago... "if we free them, what's next? Are they gonna want to be integrated with white people?"
Come on, man. It's the right thing to do. Do the right thing and if there is a legit argument to be made about other issues, have those debates too. But don't delay progress for the sake of delaying progress.
Today would be a good time for TigerIllustrated to review the Slippery Slope logical fallacy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope
In logic and critical thinking, a slippery slope is a logical device, but it is usually known under its fallacious form, in which a person asserts that some event must inevitably follow from another without any rational argument or demonstrable mechanism for the inevitability of the event in question. A slippery slope argument states that a relatively small first step leads to a chain of related events culminating in some significant effect, much like an object given a small push over the edge of a slope sliding all the way to the bottom.[1] The strength of such an argument depends on thewarrant, i.e. whether or not one can demonstrate a process that leads to the significant effect. This type of argument is sometimes used as a form of fear mongering, in which the probable consequences of a given action are exaggerated in an attempt to scare the audience. However, if an argument uses valid reasoning, it would not identify by the slippery-slope approach.[2] The fallacious sense of "slippery slope" is often used synonymously with continuum fallacy, in that it ignores the possibility of middle ground and assumes a discrete transition from category A to category B. Modern usage avoids the fallacy by acknowledging the possibility of this middle ground.
TL;DR: Moving the flag from the capitol lawn to a museum does not mean all of your rights will be stripped away.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope
In logic and critical thinking, a slippery slope is a logical device, but it is usually known under its fallacious form, in which a person asserts that some event must inevitably follow from another without any rational argument or demonstrable mechanism for the inevitability of the event in question. A slippery slope argument states that a relatively small first step leads to a chain of related events culminating in some significant effect, much like an object given a small push over the edge of a slope sliding all the way to the bottom.[1] The strength of such an argument depends on thewarrant, i.e. whether or not one can demonstrate a process that leads to the significant effect. This type of argument is sometimes used as a form of fear mongering, in which the probable consequences of a given action are exaggerated in an attempt to scare the audience. However, if an argument uses valid reasoning, it would not identify by the slippery-slope approach.[2] The fallacious sense of "slippery slope" is often used synonymously with continuum fallacy, in that it ignores the possibility of middle ground and assumes a discrete transition from category A to category B. Modern usage avoids the fallacy by acknowledging the possibility of this middle ground.
TL;DR: Moving the flag from the capitol lawn to a museum does not mean all of your rights will be stripped away.
So there should be nothing unique about the United states? Or individually as a state. I for one want to live somewhere that stands for something. Your comment insinuates that would make all people happy. You have a misunderstanding of happiness. I wouldn't have a confederate flag in my front yard bc of what it isinuates country wide but I my mind goes in a direction of something other than white supremacy. I'm old enough and understand enough that liberals are like children. What's the saying? Give them an inch and they'll take a mile? There's no getting around the fact that the liberal ideology is slow and methodical and they slowly challenge/destroy the very fabric of what they despise. You give them an inch you bet your butt the next go round. They'll use additional emotions to take that mile and that is fact.
And this "no one or any group will have something special" reminds me of something. Oh that's right. Add money and ownership rights and we have communism. At its core, thats what you are saying, because according to your principle everyone should be on equal footing.
This is a political ploy. Personally, I don't care, but I do take exception to people like Haley, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton winning a battle for their personal gain. Look at the destruction in Baltimore...this is what taking down the flag will lead too...giving control to people who never did anything for anyone but themselves.
You're proving another fact - responses very rarely include thought, reason, or logic.
hahaha. you are obviously a grumpy and bitter old man, who is judging, literally, 50+million people in one fell swoop. I was under the impression people got more wise as they got older? i guess you are the exception to the rule. nobody is going to "reason" with you, while you claim 50 million + people are evil, because you are obviously incredibly unreasonable, wrong, and frankly, a perfect example of the idiotic vitriol and hate that is ruining our political system.
your post contains literally no facts, despite your repeated claims. its pure drivel, and nobody is going to attempt to logically debate you while you claim liberals are all out (again 50 million plus people) to "destroy the fabric of what they despise".
I was referencing the fact that all you did was post a picture of an old man shaking his fist. The words in the picture implied I'm only interested in things being the way they have always been. You have drawn conclusions based on your experience/perception of what people are from your political background and profession. I am neither old nor incredibly unreasonable, and certainly not a perfect example of "the idiotic vitriol and hate that is ruining our political system". I apologize for lumping all liberals into one group. Each individual liberal may have their own thoughts this way or that. I guess a better word would have been progressives and even in that I should further define it. From within liberals comes additional layers/persuasions. The same way conservatives then have their fringe groups.
Here are some examples of what the progressive movement has done and how its been doing it, the recurring theme is "gained support through appealing to emotions rather than logic and reason". Don't get me wrong, emotions are good and motivate us to do things, but being motivated by them doesn't remove the responsibility to also use logic and reason.
1. A few years back the debate was about the flag being over the state house. So it got moved. Now it is about the flag being anywhere on the state ground. I believe it's reasonable to assume there will be a "next thing" because ultimately the flag doesn't cause the problem. We've mentioned the infrequency in which you actually see the flag around the state - and racism is still a problem. It is a people problem that has and will always exist. not a flag problem. This fundamentally is the same issue the redskins faced last fall - and that was a private organization.
2. Years ago - issues started with having the ten commandments posted around schools or courthouses, so those came down. Then all religious prayer was removed, now evolution is given more authority than creationism, and while taught - is categorized as the less than likely beginning of things. It's not a religion problem. It's a people problem. Some just don't like that others can believe in something greater than themselves. ie. secular fundamentalists (who are a part of the fringe - but b/c the basic premise aligns with the liberal thought "no one should be better than the other" the movement happens. I don't believe the FF believed Christianity should be jammed down societies throat, but I do believe they understood that in order for a free society to exist there needs to be a population of people who ascribe to some higher moral conduct. Following all of that we then slowly see blurred values/moral lines within a majority of society in certain places, that ultimately leads to institutions such as marriage being redefined. Subsequently, all those who are in non agreement are then labeled bigots.
3. Abortion was passed because "women should be able to do with their body what they want" (the emotional tug). In support of abortion the baby is only considered a fetus. But in the court system a murderer can be tried for double murder if the female is pregnant (the emotional tug) because in this situation the fetus is considered a child. (example of how certain people manipulate emotions to invoke acceptance).
4. Medicare was created as a part of the New Deal - worked for a little while and as ages have shifted and the workforce has changed it has become a larger and larger liability on the citizens. Without regard to that, the concept was taken further and created for everyone through the ACA.
Amen Brother & as another Educated Black Man I too hope others would acknowledge & answer your question. Additionally for those who desire to give a lesson (majority I disagree with) irt history, civil war, slavery - Please answer me this. The flag was placed upon Our State Capital in protest to The Civil Right Movement, so why not Remove the thing to show your protest is over! & yes, I do realize this would be too logical. Another perplexing thought; are we not disgusted that Our Govenor & President had the power to authorized lowering the U.S. & State Flag to honor Our Fallen State Brothers & Sisters, but could not do so with the confederate flag - Wow!!
My friend you do realize Blacks hung, Jews killed & 9 peopled brutally killed with this confederate flag in close proximity. Personally they are equal!
According to a Jew who posted in this same thread, he appalled that someone would compare the two. I'm over this thread. There is a reason people have quit posting
Your trolls in other threads are much less entertaining now the we know how ignorant you are on this topic.
It's a flag...and when you fly it at the statehouse, you are saying that the state government promotes, not just tolerates, but promotes what it stands for.
No need for middle school histrory lessons or slippery slope state's rights hyperbole...the overwhelming majority of SC citizens wouldn't be caught dead flying that flag outside their homes because they know what that flag represented then and now.
It is indeed tragic that it took senseless murders to spark political debate. I hate that simpletons will blame it solely on the flag....however that's how change, in this case positive change, happens.
When tragedy strikes we are in shock, denial, anger...etc. We search where to place blame, and usually come to the conclusion that the issue is so complex we can't pin point a cause.
But...as in this case, we start asking THE questions: How can I improve, how can we improve, how can we right a wrong now to perhaps mitigate the current pain or prevent future issues?
It's so simple to me...the flag stood and stands for some of the darkest and decisive elements of our great state. Until it goes, we haven't truly moved on.
You still didnt answer the question, you completely changed the subject, which is bery typical and did not surprise me at all.
I asked you a question twice and you completely ignored it. What's up with that?
I get what you are saying, and I can agree with you. Retards out there have definitely turned the flag into a racist symbol, and most who still fly it, wear clothes, stickers on their car, etc are doing it as racist, or for attention. It does trouble me that so many people do not know history, and associate everything with slavery to the south and the Civil War. Contrary to what many believe, the Civil War was not fought over slavery, and Lincoln has very little interest in freeing the slaves....but that is another story.
I don't care if the flag comes down or stays up. If it is going to cause this much trouble, then move it to the museum. However the line needs to be drawn. I don't want to ever here of taking down memorials, renaming streets, schools, buildings, etc. because they are associated with civil war figures.
What bothers me so much, this is just like when gun control comes up after a shooting, the flag issue is based off of pure emotion right now. Instead of talking about the real issues, we just blame the flag. then you had those mongoloids that vandalized the two statues in Charleston and blamed Nikki Haley, Joe Reilly and even Bill O'Reilly. It is just retardation.
As I said, I don't care either way. It is just all the rhetoric associated with the flag, and the emotion behind it, and the lack of understanding of history.
If it came to a popular vote, I would vote to remove it simply because it is not a currently recognized flag. But I think at least half the people pushing for its removal are retards and need to open a history book instead of blindly throwing around "facts" (I also think a large portion of those for it, are retards as well)
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