$15 minimum wage
- Thread starter scotchtiger
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teetering on an economic meltdown. have you noticed that we are always doing that at the end of a Republican president’s term?
another grown adult depending on the government? Sad!
Range Squatter Cliven Bundy Prepared To 'Walk Towards Guns' In Biden Administration
Rancher says he's ready to make another stand over his right to stiff taxpayers for fees and fines he owes for grazing his cattle on public lands.
I'm thankful we have Biden to save us all. Well, him and AOC anyway.
Btw - you notice how Dem governors used your well being to help with said meltdown? I mean, just look at Cuomo pushing to open back up all of the sudden. Amazing how he JUST came to the realization that New York is f*cked, f*cked, f*ckity f*cked
Seems like someone like you, who seems pretty plugged in might be more angry about that.
It's not that I'm against the wage increase, it's more the timing and the blanket hike across the country. For places like NYC and LA, you can justify it due to cost of living and it might be sustainable due to volume (more people to spend money on goods). In rural or even lower cost of living locations, that doesn't necessarily hold true.
Target margin for any healthy business is normally 30%. That number is attractive to both investors and potential acquirers of a business while also ensuring you have enough margin to reinvest in the business as needed for growth or subpar earnings months/quarters etc. If I'm in a state where the MW is still $7 and it doubles overnight, then I likely struggle to keep the same amount of staff at that hourly rate or I have to cost adjust based on what my P&L can afford.
The stimulus injections haven't changed long term spending habits for those receiving it so you lack the velocity of the dollar in the economy. What does that mean? It means that Amy makes $80 in tips at her waitress gig in Manhattan, she gets off late and takes a cab which cost her $10 + $2 tip. The cab driver takes $5 of those dollars and stops at a local deli to buy himself a bagel and a coffee. The deli owner takes $3 of those dollars and re-supplies on bagels via a local bakery. The local bakery buys more flour to make more bagels. Amy's dollar has now traveled across 4 businesses hence what I mean by velocity. That cycle of spending is based on Amy's confidence that she gets to come back the following night and make another $80 in tips. When you don't have this level of confidence in stable earnings, there is no commitment to short term spending changes so Amy walks home, the cab driver doesn't buy a bagel or coffee, the deli doesn't restock bagels and the bakery is now cash strapped to buy supplies.
The point of the above is if MW hike does go through and jobs start disappearing then spending habits won't likely change. Most will save the extra earnings just in case their job goes away which is the absolute right thing to do. You need velocity of the dollar to encourage more spending before you can force employers to spend 100% more on people costs.
The last point, US corps have been moving roles to places like Ukraine, Poland, India, Costa Rica etc because It takes cost off their bottom line with a less expensive work force. If you make the average laborer too expensive, you will accelerate the model.
you couldn't refute what I said, so you resorted to whataboutism (as always).
I appreciate your constant and genuine concern for NYC. Seeing as you are bridge and tunnel, it means a lot. Thanks.
you couldn't refute what I said, so you resorted to whataboutism (as always).
I appreciate your constant and genuine concern for NYC. Seeing as you are bridge and tunnel, it means a lot. Thanks.
Yeah, normally I'd spend more time on it but as you're referencing a year when practically EVERY 1st world country is in the same economic position due to the GLOBAL PANDEMIC and it's extensive negative impact, I don't see the point of really trying to drive any logic into the conversation. We get it, you hate Trump and Republicans.......blah blah blah, yada yada yada.
ha, bridge and tunnel........that's actually pretty funny for you. To be fair, the bar was insanely low though
Yeah, normally I'd spend more time on it but as you're referencing a year when practically EVERY 1st world country is in the same economic position due to the GLOBAL PANDEMIC and it's extensive negative impact, I don't see the point of really trying to drive any logic into the conversation. We get it, you hate Trump and Republicans.......blah blah blah, yada yada yada.
ha, bridge and tunnel........that's actually pretty funny for you. To be fair, the bar was insanely low though
I hate trump. I dont hate republicans.
I still haven't seen good answers to:
- Unemployment increasing
- Illogical flat wage for bumfvuck, MS and NYC
- Forcing employers to pay a "living wage" to a 15 year old with no skill who lives at home
- Acceleration of automation and outsourcing
- Small business ability to absorb rapid cost escalation
- Inflation due to increased cost of goods, combined with broader unemployment hurting the economically vulnerable
- Etc.
Which companies do you think will just accept the bottom line erosion caused by forced wage growth? Not many of them. The cost of goods will increase thereby negating any net effect of higher wages for people working minimum wage jobs, and/or automation of minimum wage jobs will start to expand even more rapidly than you’re seeing currently. That too will economically impact lower income individuals disproportionately, and again, negate any net positive impact intended by the minimum wage mandate. Not to mention, the negative impact on small businesses that collectively make up the largest block of employers in the country.
I said earlier,but I think that there should be a different minimum wage for under 18 and part time labor. I have been in management for 20+ years for pretty large companies and have managed 1000's of employees. The minimum wage is way too low to actually live off of.
I had many employees who were unskilled laborers in the Clemson area who worked 40 hours a week for the same company for long term, in some cases 20-30 years. They were largely stuck working there due to the bus routes. If you work full time in America as an adult, you should be able to make at least $15 an hour. You should make a high enough wage that you do not need public assistance to live and provide for a family.
I agree that many people need better money skills and discipline, but our current system is basic Toxic Charity and subsidizes corporations.
I don’t think that has ever been the point of minimum wage employment, nor should it be.
I think @ClemTigsCo post above answered a lot of these (with links and data) but I will tackle a few of them.
- Illogical flat wage for bumfvuck, MS and NYC: I don't disagree with you, but it cannot be by state. Look at any american city. The closer you get to the city the more you are going to pay for real estate. They would have to create wage models based on local cost of living. That would be difficult to maintain and monitor. So, you could do the same with prices. A deli on King street in Charleston could charge more because they have to pay more for labor than a deli on James Island.
- Acceleration of automation and outsourcing: in my opinion this happening as fast as it can already. If the AI is there for companies and it will save them money, they are going to use it whether they are paying $7.50 an hour or $15 an hour.
- Small business ability to absorb rapid cost escalation: I agree the increases should be tiered in over a few years, not a one time change to $15. A few states, including Florida, have already done this.
Now hopefully when Biden is on the way to negotiate with republicans he wont be tweeting out silly nicknames while his supporters celebrate how he is owning the cons.
This is all just a bunch of wasted onerous restrictions on labor. The true MW is zero. Stop messing with what could be a free market.
AOC is a lightening rod because she's very progressive and is young. She have very little power.
I've been thinking about this and I don't think you are completely wrong about the automation. It is going to cause pain no matter what the minimum wage is though. It's going to happen no matter what. So then we have to ask, how accountable do we want to hold these corporations for putting people out of work merely to keep profit margins high and your stockholders happy?
The cost benefit to society of automation will be a fascinating thing to see.
This is the result of a rock head trying to figure out the economics of automation. Is good by the way. It allows people to have more free time to pursue other economic activities like getting paid to post selfies. The myth that machines take away wealth has been debunked many times but there never is a shortage of ignorant fools who think automation is bad.
I mean I think there's room to debate and discuss, but I don't fundamentally believe this:
"No one working 40 hours a week should still be below the poverty line."
It's not the government's job to make you worth a certain amount. It's your job to make yourself valuable enough to earn that. If you haven't added some skill, some effort, some professionalism, something by the time you need to earn a living wage on your own, that's on you. We've become a nation of coddlers.
I also think that if nobody working 40 hours should be below the poverty line, the opposite should hold true - nobody taking money from their fellow Americans should work fewer than 40 hours (aside from disability, child and elder care). Job search, volunteering, skills development, etc could count. Even Clinton supported work for welfare, but that has shockingly become a point of contention with dems. I don't get it.
And your 3 points may help or be true, but the end result will still be more unemployment, inflation on basic goods and difficulty for low/no skill employees to gain entry into the workforce. Which means more unemployment benefits, more handouts and more government dependence.
I always go back to the root cause. Instead of big government spending programs or mandatory MW, why don't we help people become more skilled, better workers and ultimately add more value to their employers and in turn, themselves? Start with career coaching, trade programs, professionalism classes, etc. I'd much rather see money and effort going into helping people help themselves because that adds value to everyone and actually is sustainable, unlike entitlements.
You can't teach economics to someone who has never taken the class. They think economics is what should be and never realize that economics is what is or will be. What you think should be may or may not happen. It all depends on the logical implications that result from the changing environment. Kinda like Crack Cocaine. You ban cocaine, well, someone invents crack which is cheaper than cocaine. Nice going Mr Reagan. You just caused crack. Same with MW increase. Nice going Biden, you just caused a bunch of gang bangers and more unemployment people on welfare.
yeah, I did, then demolished it with evidence. And your response is “nuh uh.”
Typical.
Well, I minored in economics at MIT, so I’m guessing I have a better grasp on the math behind economic theory than you do.
Now, that doesn’t mean I’m the world’s foremost expert, but I think suggestive that because I’m liberal there’s. “No point in explaining economics to me” because I “lack the fundamental understanding” is,well, bullshit.
I tore your argument to pieces and all you can do is say “nuh ugh” and “libruls are stopped.”
Meanwhile, both history and the most updated economic literature says you’r hugely wrong.
So, yeah, keep that shut up, moron.
Yeah, we should have a totally unfettered market that allows child labor and unlimited pollution, and gets rid of weekends, right?
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