Anybody listening to Board meeting called to discuss campus climate?

[CUFam98]

Agreed completely. That's what I was alluding to. I think they're a very important part of this conversation and this progress that we hope to see. I'm only saying that the view that many of us have of our university isn't necessarily the same view that many black students (current and former) have, and the things they are currently advocating for will be key steps in improving the culture at the university to where it's more inclusive and one that everyone can be proud of.

All I hope is that the discussion is balanced and not purely emotional reaction to 'temporarily placate a mob.' Do you judge someone by 2020 standards on something that was unfortunately a societal norm at the time, or do you recognize that there would be no Clemson without John C. Calhoun? Do you weight the fact that generational change and wealth has been created for african american college graduates (many the 1st in their families) because of the land given to start a university against the fact that african americans were potentially enslaved on those same grounds? Is recognizing both a signal of just how far we've come. Is an african american graduating from Calhoun Honors College a "symbolic victory" over the past?

Is it ironic or symbolic that Tillman Hall is only linked to the "modern world" by Gantt Circle?

If its a rational and reasoned discussion, I'm pretty confident in the leadership of Clemson to come up with some way to recognize both concerns.

 

[EZ Trackstar]

There is no campus climate issue at Clemson until professors started spewing to students that there is one.

All this BS starts at the universities. Lib POS professors that can’t cope and make it in the real world so spreading their propaganda back on campuses. They have no people skills, no coping skills, no survival skills so have to play victim over and over again.

Okay, I usually don’t respond to these post, but some of you are so darn ignorant. Your white privilege is clearly showing. There’s definitely been times when it’s been “tense” during my tenure there. You just had the luxury of ignoring it since it doesn’t impact you. And you want to discuss liberals not being able to cope? You still can’t let go of a stupid flag. Get over it. You lost the war-it’s clear you wish you won though. Oops. I guess that was too much truth for your conservative arse. Maybe you should learn to cope with the changing of times.

And yes, I am a black man who attended Clemson from 1985 thru 1990. I love the place and many of the people there were highly influential in my life and there were many good people. Yet and still, I dealt with MANY racist incidents from students and racist attitudes from some professors. I love Clemson, but it’s hardly free from racism both structurally and on individual levels.

 

[PAWrocka]

I didn’t listen to the meeting but I assume this is bigger than the football program. There was a handful of incoming and current students who made some racist social media posts, and I would imagine this is being discussed as well.

University of Florida twitter account posted last night that several incoming freshman, who were accepted and scheduled to start in the fall, had their acceptance rescinded due to their racist comments on Social Media.

two lessons there ...

1) There is no tolerance for racist bullshit
2) Dont post anything on social media that you wouldnt want the entire world to see.

 

[4toTampa]

University of Florida twitter account posted last night that several incoming freshman, who were accepted and scheduled to start in the fall, had their acceptance rescinded due to their racist comments on Social Media.

two lessons there ...

1) There is no tolerance for racist bullshit
2) Dont post anything on social media that you wouldnt want the entire world to see.

Agree totally with your 2 lessons. Only question I have is racism only what white people say or do? I say All racism from any person. That doesn’t seem to be the mindset from the movements across the country though.

 

[PAWrocka]

Agree totally with your 2 lessons. Only question I have is racism only what white people say or do? I say All racism from any person. That doesn’t seem to be the mindset from the movements across the country though.

sooooo a member of a minority group cant be racist by definition. They can be prejudice, but not racist.

regardless ... I cant control what others say, do, or how they react, I can only control my words, actions, and how I respond to others.

There are no winners in the finger pointing game of "THEY SAY STUPID MEAN SHIT TOO!"

James 1:19 "...Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to anger ... "

 

[CUFam98]

University of Florida twitter account posted last night that several incoming freshman, who were accepted and scheduled to start in the fall, had their acceptance rescinded due to their racist comments on Social Media.

two lessons there ...

1) There is no tolerance for racist bullshit
2) Dont post anything on social media that you wouldnt want the entire world to see.

As much as I want to believe expulsion is the right treatment for some of these social media cases, when does some lawyer get in the middle saying that Universities are not policing "speech" equally? Is racist language treated more harshly than sexist? What about social media posts that show students actually breaking a law or underage drinking/illegal drug use?

There have been numerous professors that have posted/said some very vile things when speaking from their personal perspective and Universities have routinely said that the 1st amendment prevents them from firing the professor.

Just seems like policing social media is a very slippery slope for a university without some absolute and consistent enforcement standard that would be virtually unattainable.

 

[PAWrocka]

As much as I want to believe expulsion is the right treatment for some of these social media cases, when does some lawyer get in the middle saying that Universities are not policing "speech" equally? Is racist language treated more harshly than sexist? What about social media posts that show students actually breaking a law or underage drinking/illegal drug use?

There have been numerous professors that have posted/said some very vile things when speaking from their personal perspective and Universities have routinely said that the 1st amendment prevents them from firing the professor.

Just seems like policing social media is a very slippery slope for a university without some absolute and consistent enforcement standard that would be virtually unattainable.

... I would imagine UF, like all Universities, have a code of conduct, and saying racist things are against that code of conduct.

I somewhat agree with you, BUT my comment is that ....Speech should be free, all speech, without restriction ... but there are consequences. If youre going to say/post controversial shit, knowing full well it is controversial, you have to own the "consequences" that comes your way.

To quote Dr. Iam Malcom "...so concerned about whether or not you could, you didnt think about whether or not you should"

And ya .... I agree ... it seems some "consequences" arent applied "fairly"; however, I cant control that .... I can only control what I say and how I respond to others.

 

[Orange 77]

@Larry_Williams thanks for speaking up. It would be easy to sit back and let your thoughts go unsaid. We have to embrace that change is needed. We may not think a name of a building or a program should have the negative impact that others think it does, but we have to respect their concerns and yes, we have to change these things in spite of what tradition may dictate. Thanks again.

 

[CUFam98]

... I would imagine UF, like all Universities, have a code of conduct, and saying racist things are against that code of conduct.

I somewhat agree with you, BUT my comment is that ....Speech should be free, all speech, without restriction ... but there are consequences. If youre going to say/post controversial shit, knowing full well it is controversial, you have to own the "consequences" that comes your way.

To quote Dr. Iam Malcom "...so concerned about whether or not you could, you didnt think about whether or not you should"

And ya .... I agree ... it seems some "consequences" arent applied "fairly"; however, I cant control that .... I can only control what I say and how I respond to others.

Just to be clear, I wasn't posting that as an opinion of what should happen, but only what might. I know that speech "consequence" isn't limited to "jail time." I'm also very scared of social media vigilante justice. If doubt many schools have the time to police their students social media accounts so their only awareness comes from "the mob."

I just don't know enough about 1st Amendment law, especially as it relates to public schools, to know how the unequal treatment between students and students compared to employees could open up public universities to lawsuits.

 

[coop#]

@Larry_Williams thanks for speaking up. It would be easy to sit back and let your thoughts go unsaid. We have to embrace that change is needed. We may not think a name of a building or a program should have the negative impact that others think it does, but we have to respect their concerns and yes, we have to change these things in spite of what tradition may dictate. Thanks again.

Again, Thomas Clemson owned slaves through his marriage. Are we changing the name of the school? How about the town?

 

[MillerHighLife21]

Does anyone else feel like all of the "confederate" focus tries to turn racism into a southern thing? Is it just me? It always seems like whenever people talk about racism outside of the south, it's easy for people to just say "but the confederates..."

I mention this because it's something I've often observed as a trend online, yet most of the places where I've seen major issues in the news have been major metro areas outside of the south.

I'm not going to pretend it's not a problem, it just feels to the casual observer like there's an attempt to redirect happening...and it's working. In the last couple of days I've seen more talk about statues and flags than police reform...and that strikes me a interesting.

 

[Reese67]

1965-2020. Been at or around Clemson for 55 years. Have and have had family employed by Clemson Univ on the academic or athletic side for much longer than that. Have a child that is a rising senior this year and one that graduated in 2018 so I have a good feel for it.

Can it improve? What can’t. Is it some racially-charged environment? Far from it

 

[4toTampa]

Does anyone else feel like all of the "confederate" focus tries to turn racism into a southern thing? Is it just me? It always seems like whenever people talk about racism outside of the south, it's easy for people to just say "but the confederates..."

I mention this because it's something I've often observed as a trend online, yet most of the places where I've seen major issues in the news have been major metro areas outside of the south.

I'm not going to pretend it's not a problem, it just feels to the casual observer like there's an attempt to redirect happening...and it's working. In the last couple of days I've seen more talk about statues and flags than police reform...and that strikes me a interesting.

It’s amazing that statues and flags get so much attention yet killing police officers and one another goes unnoticed. No outrage at all over dead policemen protecting cities and citizens from burning to the ground. No media coverage of any of the funerals of these innocent public servants. It doesn’t fit the narrative. This is all about creating chaos and racism is the excuse of the day.

 

[DI Tiger]

Again, Thomas Clemson owned slaves through his marriage. Are we changing the name of the school? How about the town?

Hopefully there will be a middle ground compromise, we can't and should not change the name of the university or town, but we can make changes to a building that was renamed for a vile human in the 1940s and the Honors College which apparently added "Calhoun" to the name in the 1980s. Tillman reverts to Old Main, remove Calhoun from the Honors College, Calhoun Mansion gets additional signage that gives the full backstory on Calhoun and Thomas Green Clemson, the good and the bad, in the context of the time in which they lived and viewed from today's perspective.

 

[PAWrocka]

Just to be clear, I wasn't posting that as an opinion of what should happen, but only what might. I know that speech "consequence" isn't limited to "jail time." I'm also very scared of social media vigilante justice. If doubt many schools have the time to police their students social media accounts so their only awareness comes from "the mob."

I just don't know enough about 1st Amendment law, especially as it relates to public schools, to know how the unequal treatment between students and students compared to employees could open up public universities to lawsuits.

All good, we agree

I smell a Supreme Court case brewing, as Im sure one of the families of the denied freshman will have the resources to pursue this.

 

[Reese67]

1965-2020. Been at or around Clemson for 55 years. Have and have had family employed by Clemson Univ on the academic or athletic side for much longer than that. Have a child that is a rising senior this year and one that graduated in 2018 so I have a good feel for it.

Can it improve? What can’t. Is it some racially-charged environment? Far from it

This is exactly the point that frustrates many black people nationwide. You don’t see or feel a racially charged environment because you are white my friend (and yes, I will consider you a friend). Being white allows you not not to see and feel the burden black, brown, red or yellow people carry on a daily basis. Not a moral judgement of you, just a fact of being white. If you are truly interested in knowing why black people see or feel the “tension” that you don’t, pull up Dr. Robin Di’Angelo on you tube and listen a bit. If you really care to understand, just give it a listen.

 

[Howard's Jock]

1965-2020. Been at or around Clemson for 55 years. Have and have had family employed by Clemson Univ on the academic or athletic side for much longer than that. Have a child that is a rising senior this year and one that graduated in 2018 so I have a good feel for it.

Can it improve? What can’t. Is it some racially-charged environment? Far from it

what players said it was a racially charged environment? are you ok?

 

[nashvegastiger]

Just listened to tail end of Darien Rencher interview about Saturday.

He makes me even more proud to be a Tiger.

The perspective he brings is NOT what some on this thread are upset about that they are seeing in places like Seattle.

Yes, Rencher and our team want change but they also want unity, peace and reconciliation.

Fully support their message. Yes

 

[4toTampa]

I’m all about equality in these protests. These guys deserve to protest. I will be there to support them. Floyd murder was atrocious and cops should fry for it. They have all been charged and will face their day in court and later face their maker. For major impact I think it would be great for them to discredit the movement that has killed innocent policemen protecting cities that outlaws have taken over, as well. Not the peaceful protestors but the violent. If I know their character, I think they will. Just the same vigor for both. Those public servants protecting their own citizens didn’t deserve to die. Make it about all people as we all strive to be inclusive.

Unity comes when you address the issues from all sides and work to improve all sides.

 

[MoneMan]

This is what I was thinking. Why does the University need ti worry about the global climate. Just keep as many trees as possible.

They are going to get rid of the trees in lot 5 to redo the parking lot. I would like to see them save them if possible, but probably easier to get rid of them.

 

[ChicagoTiger85]

No disrespect intended, but it's the liberal professors who are responsible for former and current players voicing their misgivings about the names on buildings?

I don't like that way of talking about professors, since there needs to be a range of views available on college campuses. However, I do think there are whole departments that are more focused on activism than on education. It wouldn't be necessary to be an activist to take issue with John C. Calhoun or Ben Tillman, but if somebody was enrolled in a more activism-focused course, they probably wouldn't get the full context of why people revere Calhoun. Of course, an old school liberal probably wouldn't be teaching an activism-oriented course, anyway.

 

[Earle36]

Agree totally with your 2 lessons. Only question I have is racism only what white people say or do? I say All racism from any person. That doesn’t seem to be the mindset from the movements across the country though.

Typically minorities can be as racist as they want. See the looters. Anifta is white but liberal, so they are also allowed to be racist.

 

[TunaSafari]

Other than Ben Tillman, who we all agree was a POS and should have no reference on campus, and possibly Calhoun, what other buildings are offending people? Was Thomas Clemson racist by today's standards? He married Calhoun's daughter, right? Are we changing the name of the school and the town?

I'm not sure of everyone we have a building named after but pretty sure strom thurman was a big racist.

 

[Reese67]

I'm not sure of everyone we have a building named after but pretty sure strom thurman was a big racist.

 

[Reese67]

Interestingly enough, I was at Clemson during construction and inauguration of the Strom Thurmond Center. I said several times why didn’t they just call the building the racist, segregationist center. It has not gone unnoticed.

 

[JAMCRACKER99]

We’ve gone from “There’s something in these hills” and “I love the place, Best times of my life” to a racist, bigoted institution of higher learning. Makes total sense. Buy the BS if you want.

Just because you love something doesn't mean that there are things that you may not like about it or things about it that make you uncomfortable. You obviously aren't listening or open to listening how others feel.

 

[rjohn19]

What you're not understanding is that those warm and cozy feelings "we" have for our university, are not shared by many people of color who have ties to the university. The "we" you're referring to isn't really a true "we", if that makes sense. Getting there is attainable, but there's work to be done. It's perspective...you're seeing the world from the seat you've always sat in. Change seats and you might see something very different. I love our university very much, and hope that my 3 young children grow to love it too and attend when they are that age where they can, but it's okay to recognize that there's room for change & improvement.

You are a beacon in a very dark and depressing thread.

 

[4toTampa]

Just because you love something doesn't mean that there are things that you may not like about it or things about it that make you uncomfortable. You obviously aren't listening or open to listening how others feel.

I’m open to equality and accountability on all sides. Im not for George Floyd being murdered and I’m not for innocent people being injured and murdered in retaliation of his murder. I’m for common decency from all.

Wasnt going here but I will. If anybody could be racist, it could be me. My grandmother was robbed and murdered by 2 black teens. I’m not a racist however. My family forgave which wasn’t easy. Not only did we forgive, one of the teens had a 2 year old at the time. 16 years later, guess who paid for that child’s college with hopes for a better life? My parents. So don’t tell me what I’m not willing to listen to.

 

[santee]

About school being racist, I absolutely disagree with that sentiment.

Please tell me or show me who is saying Clemson is racist

 

[coop#]

I’m open to equality and accountability on all sides. Im not for George Floyd being murdered and I’m not for innocent people being injured and murdered in retaliation of his murder. I’m for common decency from all.

Wasnt going here but I will. If anybody could be racist, it could be me. My grandmother was robbed and murdered by 2 black teens. I’m not a racist however. My family forgave which wasn’t easy. Not only did we forgive, one of the teens had a 2 year old at the time. 16 years later, guess who paid for that child’s college with hopes for a better life? My parents. So don’t tell me what I’m not willing to listen to.

Your parents sound like pretty special people

 

[CU Alumnus]

I didn’t listen to the meeting but I assume this is bigger than the football program. There was a handful of incoming and current students who made some racist social media posts, and I would imagine this is being discussed as well.

At least one was a troll account.

While they can probably discuss it in the meeting, the cannot publicly discuss anything publicly regarding an actual incoming or returning student, I don't think.

 

[CU Alumnus]

University of Florida twitter account posted last night that several incoming freshman, who were accepted and scheduled to start in the fall, had their acceptance rescinded due to their racist comments on Social Media.

two lessons there ...

1) There is no tolerance for racist bullshit
2) Dont post anything on social media that you wouldnt want the entire world to see.

I'm gonna come up with a program that goes on the internet, finds every social media post a person ever made on any platform (Twitter, Facebook, Google Plus, Myspace), plus any text messages or emails, and deletes them.

 

[CU Alumnus]

deleted - need to make sure I'm right

 

[PAWrocka]

I'm gonna come up with a program that goes on the internet, finds every social media post a person ever made on any platform (Twitter, Facebook, Google Plus, Myspace), plus any text messages or emails, and deletes them.

too late

https://www.reputationdefender.com/

But this is a important lesson for our kids, definitely those with teenagers now. The things they post on social media will follow them for the rest of their lives.

Shoot ... when I evaluate resumes, I make 3 piles. 1 pile is people who dont meet the qualifications (Thanks HR for wasting my time). Second pile is folks who meet the qualifications but I just dont get a warm fuzzy from their resume. Third pile are people who meet the qualifications and I like their resume (Clemson degrees get placed in this pile by default). I then take pile 3 and go out on Google and social media platforms and start looking these people up and look for "red flags". It truly is amazing what people allow to be put out there ...

 

[HisDudeliness57]

Glad times are changing along with this 19th century belief

This post makes me wonder what colleges were like in the 19th century. Not from a racial tension stance. Just in general. What did a day on campus look like back then. What about a weekend?

 

[bp1999]

There always has been, still is, and always will be something in these hills.

But why can't people see a very basic incompatibility with "Clemson as an institution fosters diversity, values all lives, and desires to be a vibrant and welcoming culture for all people" while using celebratory and honorary monikers of people that lived lives counter to those values?

I grew up being taught that John C Calhoun was an honorable man that we should be proud of. And I don't know if he was a good man that did some bad things, or a bad man that did some good things. But I know we can still celebrate the good that he did in helping found our country while not having to have his name attached to our honors college (which I was proudly a part of 1995).

The only good I know of Ben Tillman was sticking it to USC to help get Clemson started. And that can be acknowledged in our legend and lore. But that seems like a footnote to his greater record. And since the building was changed to honor him in response to racial turmoil, all the more reason.

I do struggle with the changes. It changes things that are very important to me (the school I so dearly love will be the same, it just will have some different titles); it restates meaning. There is a process that I have to go through to deal with that. I don't think these changes are being considered lightly and just in response to the woke monster. There might be a slippery slope here, but it is still worth taking the first steps.

 

[Paw Pad]

Other than Ben Tillman, who we all agree was a POS and should have no reference on campus, and possibly Calhoun, what other buildings are offending people? Was Thomas Clemson racist by today's standards? He married Calhoun's daughter, right? Are we changing the name of the school and the town?

Ben Tillman may have been a POS , but because he didn't take any sh-t, we have Clemson University to show for it, Without him, those snobs in Columbia would never have allowed our school to exist.
I think we can teach the correct history and learn from the past instead of trying to change it. Everyone can have a opinion on things and it is good to have a discussion , but make it a 2 sided discussion.
Most of our founding fathers were slave owners, but should we change names of cities, towns blogs, etc. to suit a narrative. Clemson has a lot of bldg named for a lot of people, should we do a investigation of each one to see if they can pass muster to them. And who is the final authority on who makes that decision, libs or conservatives?
I think that it is wrong to try and change history by silencing history. You can never learn if mistakes are erased,

 

[tigerGUY]

Yes because all of the "conservative" professors are racists.

Hell yeah....call anyone you don't agree with a racist. That's just ignorant.

 

[iceheart08]

Ben Tillman may have been a POS , but because he didn't take any sh-t, we have Clemson University to show for it, Without him, those snobs in Columbia would never have allowed our school to exist.
I think we can teach the correct history and learn from the past instead of trying to change it. Everyone can have a opinion on things and it is good to have a discussion , but make it a 2 sided discussion.
Most of our founding fathers were slave owners, but should we change names of cities, towns blogs, etc. to suit a narrative. Clemson has a lot of bldg named for a lot of people, should we do a investigation of each one to see if they can pass muster to them. And who is the final authority on who makes that decision, libs or conservatives?
I think that it is wrong to try and change history by silencing history. You can never learn if mistakes are erased,

changing the names of buildings doesnt "silence history". books and the internet are still a thing.

 

[iceheart08]

I’m open to equality and accountability on all sides. Im not for George Floyd being murdered and I’m not for innocent people being injured and murdered in retaliation of his murder. I’m for common decency from all.

Wasnt going here but I will. If anybody could be racist, it could be me. My grandmother was robbed and murdered by 2 black teens. I’m not a racist however. My family forgave which wasn’t easy. Not only did we forgive, one of the teens had a 2 year old at the time. 16 years later, guess who paid for that child’s college with hopes for a better life? My parents. So don’t tell me what I’m not willing to listen to.

thats nice of your parents. you still arent listening. and your experience as a white person has no bearing on the experience that black men and women face. do you think they are lying? are Cornell Powell and Darien Rencher and Deshaun Watson and nuk and COUNTLESS other black Clemson players making this all up because democrats and liberal professors are manipulating them.

You are listening.