George Floyd Revisited

[SDTiger9]

I am absolutely comfortable with it... Let's take your example and change it just a little. A 55 year old man with stage 4 cancer and cirrhosis of the walks into a bank. The bank is being robbed and the robber shoots him in the chest. Two days later the man dies in the ICU. Does the bank robber NOT get charged with murder? Does the man's death certificate say he died of cancer or cirrhosis? Of course not, because the bullet to the chest killed him.

Same thing here.

We cannot talk at both sides of our mouths. If we’re gonna play this cause orientation game where the primary cause lies. Being shot with a weapon or taking too much fentanyl, it’s pretty clear about that medical intervention. All of us live through a life of bacterial and viral infections with the vast majority of us who are healthy always pull through. It’s rare, a healthy person dies. But it’s very common that an unhealthy person with an infection does succumb.

It’s no surprise more Americans died of Covid then of other nations who have more healthy people.

This country is effing pathetic about taking ownership of reality. Always wanting to cast blame elsewhere, than looking dead in the face and recognizing that half your tank is already dead and with any additional added, straw will kill your camels fat ass.

It was abundantly clear in the Covid reporting game that over 95% of people who died were in poor health.

 

[hopefultiger13]

We cannot talk at both sides of our mouths. If we’re gonna play this cause orientation game where the primary cause lies. Being shot with a weapon or taking too much fentanyl, it’s pretty clear about that medical intervention. All of us live through a life of bacterial and viral infections with the vast majority of us who are healthy always pull through. It’s rare, a healthy person dies. But it’s very common that an unhealthy person with an infection does succumb.

It’s no surprise more Americans died of Covid then of other nations who have more healthy people.

This country is effing pathetic about taking ownership of reality. Always wanting to cast blame elsewhere, than looking dead in the face and recognizing that half your tank is already dead and with any additional added, straw will kill your camels fat ass.

It was abundantly clear in the Covid reporting game that over 95% of people who died were in poor health.

I agree with the fact that COVID killed the unhealthy at a far higher rate that the unhealthy. There's no question about that, or that if folks were healthier they'd be safer and would have been FAR less likely to die if they did get COVID. My problem was with the folks that were dumping on the cause of death, saying people that died of COVID didn't REALLY die of COVID b/c they were unhealthy. That's just not true.

 

[SDTiger9]

I agree with the fact that COVID killed the unhealthy at a far higher rate that the unhealthy. There's no question about that, or that if folks were healthier they'd be safer and would have been FAR less likely to die if they did get COVID. My problem was with the folks that were dumping on the cause of death, saying people that died of COVID didn't REALLY die of COVID b/c they were unhealthy. That's just not true.

There’s reason why we learn logic, probability, statistics, Venn diagrams.
To actually use them!!!

It’s true that unhealthy people in their current state + COLD/FLU/COVID will die.

It’s true that healthy people in their current state + COLD/FLU/COVID will die.

It’s true that OLDER people will die at a much higher rate which is a direct correlation of aging cells and weakened immune system.

It’s also true those with comorbidities will die at a higher rate than those who do not.

The biggest BULLSHIT about COVID was that it was never communicated in relation to how it affected as it would a bad flu outbreak affecting the population with an across the board mathematical increase that was small until to hit 65+. BUT EVEN on the low age realm, it was those that had comorbidities was the vast majority that suffered. Those popping off that no one died with COVID healthy otherwise? Wrong. Was it a very small number? Yes. No different than getting the flu for this age and health range.

Net net, healthy people under 55, COVID SHOULD HAVE BEEN business as usual.

 

[JAMCRACKER99]

Yea, no lack of objectivity or pressure to convict in that trial. Cop messed up and deserved punishment, but it also wasn't cold-blooded murder.

The lesson here is:

• Don't do hard drugs
• Don't commit crimes

Had Floyd avoided both of these he would be alive today.

Of course we focused on systemic racism instead of practicing good behavior to keep yourself out of these situations.

The cop messed up ... give me a fvcking break! Of course, people shouldn't do hard drugs or commit crimes, but that didn't give the cop the right to kill a human being. Cop deserved what he got.

The irony is that you will be voting for Trump ... a man who has no integrity and has committed numerous crimes but hey white collar crime is ok because, you know, they're rich.

 

[CUT93]

The cop messed up ... give me a fvcking break! Of course, people shouldn't do hard drugs or commit crimes, but that didn't give the cop the right to kill a human being. Cop deserved what he got.

The irony is that you will be voting for Trump ... a man who has no integrity and has committed numerous crimes but hey white collar crime is ok because, you know, they're rich.

Did you not read what he wrote? He clearly said the cop messed up and deserved punishment. Just not for murder. Additionally he said we should encourage people not to be shitty humans and commit crime so they can avoid these situation all together. Are you in favor of people committing crimes?
Also - he has repeatedly said he was NOT voting for Trump. Any more conclusions you want to jump to?

 

[JAMCRACKER99]

Did you not read what he wrote? He clearly said the cop messed up and deserved punishment. Just not for murder. Additionally he said we should encourage people not to be shitty humans and commit crime so they can avoid these situation all together. Are you in favor of people committing crimes?
Also - he has repeatedly said he was NOT voting for Trump. Any more conclusions you want to jump to?

Did you not read what I wrote about people not committing crimes? And I haven’t been keeping up with his previous posts about anything lately like you have apparently. And I'm glad to hear he won't be voting for Benedict Donald. My apologies to Scotch. I wish more people would look at the facts and stop kissing the ring of the narcissist criminal.

 

[TigerGrowls]

But no one on MMA is kneeling on anyone's neck for 10 minutes.

Thats true but I am just stating the fact that the pressure has to be applied continuously in the exact right spot and pressure to make someone pass out and any little movement can change that pressure. MMA fighters that pass out due to a choke almost immediately wake up as soon as the choke is released. The fentanyl had a huge affect on the outcome while I would agree that the officer deserved some punishment well short of what he received.

 

[TigerGrowls]

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

So can you explain why they didn't just take him in instead of knee to the throat for 10 minutes?

Extremely poor police procedures

Was not there nor have physical evidence to examine.

I will say that a physically imposing man hyped ip on drugs can be a real challenge to subdue and put in cuffs

It was a tragedy he died in the process

There was also a case in Minnesota where an Australian women called 911 snd ran out of an alley to flag doen a police cruiser and the passenger police officer drew his service revolver and shot and killed her through the open driver side window

I find that particularly disturbing as to the details I heard

Clearly the quality of police officers policies they operate under training to those policies and implementation need serious review and adjustment

 

[hopefultiger13]

Extremely poor police procedures

Was not there nor have physical evidence to examine.

I will say that a physically imposing man hyped ip on drugs can be a real challenge to subdue and put in cuffs

It was a tragedy he died in the process

There was also a case in Minnesota where an Australian women called 911 snd ran out of an alley to flag doen a police cruiser and the passenger police officer drew his service revolver and shot and killed her through the open driver side window

I find that particularly disturbing as to the details I heard

Clearly the quality of police officers policies they operate under training to those policies and implementation need serious review and adjustment

While I generally agree here, but there's something here that's pretty important. Here's what you said:

I will say that a physically imposing man hyped ip on drugs can be a real challenge to subdue and put in cuffs

It was a tragedy he died in the process

IMHO, that's part of the problem. The police showed up and quickly put Floyd on cuffs with little resistance. He did resist them putting him in the car. But the police did get him inside then immediately pulled him through the back seat and out the other side. At that point "The process" SHOULD HAVE BEEN over until he gets to the police station for booking. He can do whatever in the back of that car but he's in a metal cage. It's unclear why they pulled him out and put him on the street with 3 officers holding him down, one with a knee on his neck. Once Floyd is down on the pavement, it doesn't look like he's struggling. To be fair, I don't think the video is conclusive on that, but it's pretty obvious that the police have control of him at that point. Again, "the process" is over. But he's held down with a knee on his neck and 2 other cops on his torso and legs for another 10 minutes while he's saying he can't breath.

IMHO, the police did a good job right until they pulled him through the backseat and out the other side. At that point things go off the rails. Here's a link to the video. Note that it's from the NT Times, so I paid no attention to the narrative that goes with the film and I'd encourage you to do the same as they are forming a narrative that supports his murder. Just mute it and watch.

That last 9 minutes or so, is pretty disturbing, knowing the guy is in distress and is about to die. As you said, crap procedures for sure. Not for a minute do I think the cops woke up that morning intending to kill Floyd, but they f'd up for sure and a man died that shouldn't have. In that 10 minutes, If Floyd was on drugs, he should have been in an Ambulance on the way to the hospital. If he wasn't, he should have been on the way to the city jail for booking. Where he SHOULDN'T have been is lying on the pavement with a knee on his neck.

How George Floyd Died, and What Happened Next

Mr. Floyd, a Black man, died in May 2020 after being handcuffed and pinned to the ground by Minneapolis police officers in an episode that was captured on video, touching off nationwide protests.

www.nytimes.com

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

While I generally agree here, but there's something here that's pretty important. Here's what you said:

I will say that a physically imposing man hyped ip on drugs can be a real challenge to subdue and put in cuffs

It was a tragedy he died in the process

IMHO, that's part of the problem. The police showed up and quickly put Floyd on cuffs with little resistance. He did resist them putting him in the car. But the police did get him inside then immediately pulled him through the back seat and out the other side. At that point "The process" SHOULD HAVE BEEN over until he gets to the police station for booking. He can do whatever in the back of that car but he's in a metal cage. It's unclear why they pulled him out and put him on the street with 3 officers holding him down, one with a knee on his neck. Once Floyd is down on the pavement, it doesn't look like he's struggling. To be fair, I don't think the video is conclusive on that, but it's pretty obvious that the police have control of him at that point. Again, "the process" is over. But he's held down with a knee on his neck and 2 other cops on his torso and legs for another 10 minutes while he's saying he can't breath.

IMHO, the police did a good job right until they pulled him through the backseat and out the other side. At that point things go off the rails. Here's a link to the video. Note that it's from the NT Times, so I paid no attention to the narrative that goes with the film and I'd encourage you to do the same as they are forming a narrative that supports his murder. Just mute it and watch.

That last 9 minutes or so, is pretty disturbing, knowing the guy is in distress and is about to die. As you said, crap procedures for sure. Not for a minute do I think the cops woke up that morning intending to kill Floyd, but they f'd up for sure and a man died that shouldn't have. In that 10 minutes, If Floyd was on drugs, he should have been in an Ambulance on the way to the hospital. If he wasn't, he should have been on the way to the city jail for booking. Where he SHOULDN'T have been is lying on the pavement with a knee on his neck.

How George Floyd Died, and What Happened Next

Mr. Floyd, a Black man, died in May 2020 after being handcuffed and pinned to the ground by Minneapolis police officers in an episode that was captured on video, touching off nationwide protests.

www.nytimes.com

To be clear I have only read and halfway paid attention to the video but did look at stuff somewhat with a casual view.

Unfortunately, when people resist arrest the worse comes out in everyone.

The best thing a person can do is just go with police without resisting.

And of course that does not always work.

I do think intense training in regard to this type of interaction is better that the approximately 600 riots and some deaths as a result of peaceful protests that resulted.

Those peaceful protests I can say I do no see what I would describe as progress in improved policing.