Calling 85% of those listed as scandals is a laughable reach. That might just be the stupidest f*cking list I've ever seen.
Michael Avenatti
- Thread starter CU_TrialLawyer
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It wouldn’t be all over the news as the MSM would ignore it. Try again though!
If that’s the mantra for every president going forward only the pope can run. That’s not how this thing works.
Respectfully, not sure what point you are making. Republican and democrat standards you mention are a myth perpetuated in yesteryear by a controlled media and less total information flow to the public. Our presidents have been imperfect individuals throughout the history of this country. Trump loves women....so what? He is a reflection of our society as a whole with 50% or higher rates of divorce and multiple porn sites ruling web traffic. Trump loves this country and has viewpoints on running the country that I agree with. He doesnt drink, smoke and he works like a dog. I think he is the best President we have had in my lifetime and I was born in 1963. I look at each person separate and on their own merits. I have no tied in allegiance to the republican party....I am more libertarian to be honest, but Obama was and is a huge scumbag with a socialist/marxist agenda that he perpetuated on our country for 8 years and I do not like him or ever will based on his actions in office.
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Just when I thought libs were done deep-throating fake news, you two go and prove me wrong.
Watching the mentally weak chase after "nothing burgers" while Trump erases obama legacy, frees prisoners, and Makes America Great Again
Listen to Dan Bongino's podcast #716. Here's the link. If you don't already have at least an inkling that this Mueller thing is shaky, then this will probably not make sense to you. The fact that the Federal Judge in the Manafort case is asking some serious questions, the fact that Rosenstein is defying Congress and not releasing documents; lying about redactions, etc, should, at least make reasonable people think closely about what is really going on here.
Just when I thought libs were done deep-throating fake news, you two go and prove me wrong.
Watching the mentally weak chase after "nothing burgers" while Trump erases obama legacy, frees prisoners, and Makes America Great Again
#bebest
I am not going to waste my time listening to that right wing propaganda nonsense, and the fact that you do is troubling. This guys website headline is this "Dan Bongino - Making the world a better place by debunking one liberal myth at a time."
Federal judges always ask questions about cases after an indictment, that is one of their jobs. That literally happens in every case. Rosenstein is defying congress b/c he knows that the committee is led by republican partisan hacks who will leak the information, share it directly with Trump and discredit it publicly no matter how legit it is. Come on man.
Just when I thought libs were done deep-throating fake news, you two go and prove me wrong.
Watching the mentally weak chase after "nothing burgers" while Trump erases obama legacy, frees prisoners, and Makes America Great Again
Then you are what I call a "true believer". No amount of facts are ever going to sway you.
Your state Atty General up there in NY. Yeah, the one who just resigned. Do you know he allowed Hillary to not disclose all of her campaign contributions? Of course you didn't. You can find it in a Scripps News report.
Rosenstein is requires by the Constitution to submit to Congressional oversight, but I forgot, the Constitution doesn't mean anything to liberals these days. If Rosenstein doesn't have anything to hide, why not turn the documents over? You know Trump can declassify this stuff anytime he wants, right? Yeah that's his Constitutional privilege. He's letting this bullshit play out as long as possible, because it is PROVING to the American people who all of the deep state slime are. And, it's not just dems. Plenty of repubs are deep state slimes also.
Since you won't hear Bongino, a former Secret Service guy, I'll just go ahead and tell you that the Oligarch in question here, had dinner in Clinton's home, owns over 20 companies that have contibuted hundreds of millions to the Clintons and got special favors from the State Dept for doing so.
The federal judge in the Manafort case is requiring Mueller's bunch to show him an unredacted document that will show what his marching orders are. These marching orders have to meet DOJ guidlines. The judge could very easily throw out this case because it has nothing to do with Russian collusion.
Also, while I'm at it, I'll just let you in on some other things that will be coming to light. Seems your guy Bill Clinton has been pretty close friends with Kevin Spacey over the years. Apparently they've taken some island trips together. Don't worry, though, I'm sure that's just more right wing stuff.
It will all be exposed to the light of day soon enough. Stay tuned.
Think they were part of a plan? An insurance policy, perhaps?
How miserable do you think it is to be a leftist right now?
Economy booming
US world dominance and influence
Climate changed debunked
Police/law enforcement supported
Media belittled
Black people supporting republicans.
This has to be a libs worst nightmare
@marshmk @clemben @Tillman28 @nytigerfan @johnhugh I refuse to believe there are this many stupid clemson fans. Tell me where I’m wrong.
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At least FOX News provides both viewpoints. The big 3 networks and msnbc, cnn, etc are shamefully one sided. Total hacks with 90+% of reporting on Trump being negative. FOX News is slanted conservative, but its like a 60-40 or 65-35 split at most. They are the best news source on TV without a doubt. The other networks are part of the deep state and are pathetically unbalanced in their reporting. I am smart enough to use my own judgement and want to see all angles of a story. You need to leave the big city(assumption admittedly)...been telling you that...go back to fly over country and get a different perspective on life.
I must have missed it when the scientific community debunked global warming. Ohhhhhh. You meant it was debunked by Jesus. Carry on
Well, looks like we're getting somewhere. Apparently, we're getting close to understanding why the DOJ/FBI are refusing to comply with their constitutional duty of submitting to congressional oversight.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/about-that-fbi-source-1525992611
https://www.wsj.com/articles/about-that-fbi-source-1525992611
an opinion piece on a set of facts. You do know that the DOJ has been withholding subpoenaed documents from the Intelligence Committee, right? ...and that the particular document in question is regarding a domestic intelligence source? You need to re-read the first paragraph.
Your warped view of reality is troubling. Fox News is 95% slanted right. Can you imagine what they would be saying right now of Obama had gotten those three hostages freed? They would be slamming Obama for giving up too much for a few hostages that should not have been there in the first place. Oh and they would have blown a gasket if Obama had been there at 3 AM for a photo op with them walking off of the plane.
I believe you need to take your own advice about getting some perspective sir. I currently do and have lived 3/4 of my life in the south. Was born and raised here. Luckily, I have also been able to live up north, out west, in Chicago (midwest) and in two other countries. So dont lecture me about getting a different perspective. I get my news from AP News, the Economist and the Week. You get your news from conservative bloggers.
As a general rule I don't waste my time with any opinion pieces. I try to be discerning with my news sources which I why I don't bother reading anything from "ShareBlue" either.
Ok. Don't want to bother you too much, but if, or when you have time, I'd like to hear what you believe has been going in the FBI and DOJ since around July of 2016.
Lots of good points and stupid ones here for sure. This thread is a perfect example of why this country is going downhill fast. The main problem is that the liberals and conservatives both defend actions in their folks that they go nuts over when someone else does it. And the media (again, both sides) eats up the conflict and eggs it on because it's good ratings. So we get used to yelling at each other and not listening at all. No liberal will watch FoxNews b/c they are so very pro conservative (and that's true). But it doesn't mean that FoxNews can't report some very true things, because they absolutely do. No conservative is going to watch any left leaning media because it's all Fake News. It's not fake news... some really important things that Trump and company have done and said have been reported there (but not on Fox)... but it is biased news
As you all know, I'm no fan of Trump. And it's not his policies (I actually believe in a lot of what he's trying to do). And I admit that he's doing some really good things as President. But the ends do NOT justify the means. And this President is a very bad man. He will throw anyone and everyone under the bus to avoid blame falling on him. Truth and lies mean nothing to him. He lies when the truth would serve as well. What comes out of his mouth is what benefits him. Truth or not has nothing to do with it. This is a man who has spent his entire life looking out for himself and believes that the rules are for others but he can do whatever he wants. He is a bully and enjoys attacking people, because that makes him look good. He brags constantly about how smart he is and how rich he is, but he's the 1st person to hide behind bankruptcy laws and leave others holding the bag while he walks way scott free owing millions that he doesn't have to pay back.
As you all know, I'm no fan of Trump. And it's not his policies (I actually believe in a lot of what he's trying to do). And I admit that he's doing some really good things as President. But the ends do NOT justify the means. And this President is a very bad man. He will throw anyone and everyone under the bus to avoid blame falling on him. Truth and lies mean nothing to him. He lies when the truth would serve as well. What comes out of his mouth is what benefits him. Truth or not has nothing to do with it. This is a man who has spent his entire life looking out for himself and believes that the rules are for others but he can do whatever he wants. He is a bully and enjoys attacking people, because that makes him look good. He brags constantly about how smart he is and how rich he is, but he's the 1st person to hide behind bankruptcy laws and leave others holding the bag while he walks way scott free owing millions that he doesn't have to pay back.
I'm not entirely sure because the bulk of the investigation has been handled by Mueller's team, correct? I personally do not think there is anything untoward going on with the FBI/DOJ on this particular front. I'm not sure what DOJ's actual responsibility is to clue Congress in on what's going on with the investigation (I've gathered that you're upset at some refusal of theirs to do so) but I certainly understand the reluctance to be forthcoming when Republicans in Congress have been pretty leaky and ran (what I perceive to be) a total sham investigation into Russian Collusion.
So I see you do have a varied perspective and experience, so please forgive my incorrect assumptions. I now just think you are a typical flaming lib without a clue about right and wrong...LOL!!
Hey, I understand. It's a lot to keep up with for sure. I spend a lot of time on this, because it involves the essential, core precepts of our Constitution; which is the underpinning of our freedom as Americans.
No secret that I'm Conservative with some Libertarian leanings. I understand that both sides have flaws and people can quickly start hurling insults at each. I've been guilty of this. This situation we're in as a country is most serious. If Trump colluded or conspired with the Russians, that is serious, as well as dangerous. If Trump didn't collude or conspire with the Russians, then where/how did these serious and dangerous accusations come from? How did it start? This is an extremely serious situation; much different than simple lib vs conservative arguing. It's also too much to get into on a message board, so I'll just briefly mention some things that everyone should be thinking about.
This didn't start with the appt. of Mueller, so how did we get around to having a SC appointed?
The Executive branch, President, DOJ, FBI, CIA, EPA, etc, etc have always been under the Oversight of the Congress. Separation of Powers, right? This insures the Pres and his agencies don't become dictators, right? You seem to be unaware of the facts of what has happened thus far, and seem to not trust anything that Congress has been doing; just because Congress is under Republican leadership. You obviously believe people like Adam Shiff are speaking truth. I understand that. If the situation were reversed, I'd be very suspicious of the Dems.
I'll just ask a question. If everything you stated above is true, why then is it true that all of the highest ranking execs in the DOJ/FBI either quitting or getting fired. Here's a list:
FBI:
James Baker- Top lawyer for fbi
Andrew McCabe: Dep Dir.
Jim Comey - Dir
Bill Preistap-Chief of Counter-intelligence
Peter Strzok- dep dir of C-I
Lisa Page- atty worked for Baker
Mike Kortan- Assistand director for public affairs
Josh Campbell- assistant to Comey
DOJ:
David Laufman -Chief of Counter-intelligence
John Carlin-- Assistant Atty for National Sec Div
Sally yates-- Dep dir.
Mary McCord -- Assistant Atty for National Sec div
Bruce Ohr-- Associate assistant Atty Gen
Rachel Brand-- Assoc Atty Gen #3 behind Rosenstein
You haven't heard much of anything about this in news. You have to understand that the IG, Horowitz, has an army of people investigating the internal dealings at these agencies. Don't forget, Sessions appointed John Huber, a US Dist Atty, to investigate and convene Grand Jury.
Again, the key question in all of this is: How DId It All Get Started?
I like this post and I too want to know what's going on. I kind of look at it from the opposite position (which kind of makes sense since compared to most of this board, I'm pretty liberal (that would mean moderate in almost any other time). I see a bunch of career DOJ/FBI employees. People who have mostly worked their whole careers for agencies that would definitely be lumped into the "good guys" category. Now all these folks have resigned or been fired as you have pointed out. WHY is that? A lot of these folks were around for Clinton, George W, Obama, and now Trump.
Now all of a sudden, people whose JOB it is to be fair and impartial in enforcing the law and above all be non partisan in the way they perform their duties have gone nuts and formed a "deep state" conspiracy? And remember that a number of these folks are life long Republicans (Mueller and Comey for example).
I throw bullshit on this. Honestly, looking at this objectively. Is it MORE likely that all these folks (and many more) have formed an illegal conspiracy to perform illegal acts after years of working for agencies who's job it is to stop that sort of thing OR is it more likely that ONE PERSON with a long history following the rules only when he has to, Lying repeatedly, blaming others for anything that goes wrong, and pushing conspiracy theories to explain how "everyone is against him" is truly the one at fault here?
I understand your logic. That's not an unreasonable way to view this; especially if you're someone who has a disdain for Trump as your starting point. You need to keep in mind, however, that Trump has not fired any of these people. They have been fired or pressured into resigning by Horowitz, the IG, who is a dem and an Obama appointee. This should raise further questions and demand your attention. It bears noting that there is actual testimony that has been given to Congress by Comey, Clapper, Brennan, Strzok, McCabe, etc. What have they said under oath that doesn't match up with reality? Comey is the most obvious, so far. Virtually nothing he is saying publicly on his book tour is matching up with reality. Also, I would repeat that being a repub or dem has no bearing on whether these people would be acting properly or not. This goes beyond simple politics. You seem to have an open mind, so I would just say to stay tuned. There is more info that is being brought out into open; even as I type this. Info regarding the beginnings of this whole thing and how it ended up with where we are now.
I'll leave you with one news story, which, in my point of view, points to some dems realizing that some things are about to be exposed, and they are trying to "get out in front" of the exposure, so to speak.
http://dailycaller.com/2018/05/13/mark-warner-trump-russia-collusion/
As a point of clarification, both Jim Comey and Sally Yates were fired by Trump. Strzok and Priestap are still working, Brand seems to have left on her own accord and I don't particularly care about people who are attorney's, assistants, or too insignificant to have a wikipedia page. It's probably pretty easy to see foul play with all of this but I think your list is only evidence of foul play if you have a very particular mindset about the whole thing.
A fair statement all around. I absolutely do have a disdain for Trump. I started to ague with you about the word "disdain" which I don't like. But then I did a lot of backspacing b/c you are 100% correct. Trump is doing some good things for the country and I freely admit that (which was the crux of my argument). But I firmly believe based on his lifetime of work that Trump is a bad person.
Unarguably, he firmly believes that he is smarter and better than anyone else and is not shy about pointing that out. He is a bully that attacks people that disagree with him in an aggressive matter yet often does the very things he attacks others for. He blames others for his mistakes and I can't recall him ever saying that something was his fault. He is also an ENORMOUS liar. These are all traits that I absolutely HATE (and probably why I have a great dislike for most politicians). That's the very definition of disdain. So you are correct about me starting from that position.
Now on to the meat of the problem. That was a GREAT article and I mostly agreed with it. It pretty much sums up my position. I have no idea whether there were laws broken or not, but the entire basis of my rants were the meetings with the Russians for the purpose of getting dirt on Clinton. Nothing else matters to me b/c there's no law against meeting with the Russians to make plans... Collusion is not a real thing in the sense that it isn't illegal. The whole case depends on whether the Trump team got dirt on Hillary from the Russians (it doesn't matter if they used it or not... again, not against the law). The law in question states that a federal election campaign can not receive anything of value from a foreign government. Of course, damaging info on your adversary would be something of value.
Now Trump Jr. Jared, and Manfort met with the Russians for the purpose of getting this information about Clinton. This isn't fake news or a wild accusation. Trump Jr's own emails confirm this. Did they get this information? THAT'S the question. If they did, that's game over IMHO and Trump needs to be impeached and removed from office for high crimes and misdemeanors. Furthermore, Trump's firing of Comey and all that other stuff he's done to impede Mueller's investigation is indeed obstruction of justice.. If they did not get any information, then that's game over as well. There's no crime committed and you can't obstruct justice if there's no crime to obstruct. The investigation is over at that point and we should all move forward.
The above is exactly why I've supported Mueller's investigation from the beginning. Trump and his team are liars and we can't believe a word that they say (which has nothing to do with whether they broke the law or not). BUT, we can't simply take them at their word when they say that nothing happened and this is a witch hunt. If Trump and company owned up to these meetings in the first place and said that they were simply to (insert lawful reason here), I'd be on the other side of this argument b/c it would be more likely than not that this was true. But that's not the case. Every single meeting with the Russians (even the ones where there were clearly no laws broken... Sessions meetings for example), was systematically denied and lied about repeatedly. When the press broke these stories, they were called fake news and biased reporting. Right up until the proof was released, THEN Trump's team had to revise their statements. Sessions lied in front of congress, Jared and Don Jr lied on their FBI paperwork (multiple times), and Trump lied to all of us about he and his staff having no meetings.
Again, the lying doesn't mean that any laws were broken, but this lying DOES mean that there's a ton of smoke here for there to be no fire. So I'm with Mueller and his investigation. BUT I will say that if this investigation comes back with no evidence of wrongdoing... you'll never here another word about it from me.
I mean, some of Session's lies were under oath and would often be considered perjury and I think that lying on those disclosure forms is a crime as well.
You are probably correct here. But again they aren't the BIG deal that the meetings with the Russians are. I kind of lump them in the same categories with Hillary's emails and the Bengozi stuff. Yep, there were probably some laws broken... But just as I don't believe for a minute that Hillary had malicious intent when our diplomats were killed (yep, no doubt that she went rogue to cover her ass when she could have just said ... I fuucked up BIGTIME and people are dead on my watch), I don't believe for a SECOND that Jeff Sessions would make any sort of deal with the Russians that would hurt his country.
So, just as I say with Hillary... if someone wants to investigate this and lock them up if they are indeed guilty... have at it. I won't shed a tear.
You're right, Comey, obviously fired by Trump. Yates also. Yates was the one unmasking names and Comey wouldn't publicly state that Trump was not a target of the investigation, even though he privately told Trump this on three different occasions.
Strzok and Priestap do still have jobs, although greatly diminished roles and only for the purpose of cooperating with the IG investigation. Remember, the IG cannot investigate anyone who is not an employee of the agencies; by rule. I don't have a particular mindset other than what has come out as factual in the reports so far and I do believe the House Comittee's report. We know that McCabe had the FBI stand down the investigation of the Uranium One probe during the election year. We know that Strzok and Comey had written Hillary's exoneration speech 6 weeks before Strzok led the questioning of Hillary July 4th weekend. We know that Loretta Lynch made the FBI change the wording of the investigation, calling it a "matter" instead of a criminal investigation.
Look, all I'm asking is that you guys keep an open mind. I do believe that ultimately it will be proven that once Hillary lost the election, there was a conspiracy in place to force Trump out. There are reports out now stating that CArter Page and Papadopoulos were set up by FBI/CIA operatives.
This is the file that Nunes has subpoenaed, and Rosenstein is failing to give up.
I've got a very open mind to whatever shows up in the Mueller investigation. Personally, I believe there won't be any hard evidence of anything related to "collusion" but I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out there was money laundering or something of that nature. Strongly doubt he gets impeached or resigns but also doubt he serves a second term.
Let me ask another question. Do you believe that since DonJr and others went to a meeting thinking that they were going to receive dirt on Hillary, that in and of itself is a crime? If so, what do you call it when Hillary's campaign and DNC pays a law firm, who then pays Fusion GPS, who then hires Michael Steele, who then buys information from Russians to create a dossier of disinformation, or dirt on Trump? You do know that this is all true, right?
You seem to put a lot of stock in Mueller's investigation. My original question was, what started all of this that eventually led to Mueller's appointment. If the dossier is trash and if Papadopoulos and Carter Page are innocent, or were set up by FBI/CIA operatives, what is the basis for any of this?
At this point, if we get there, and I firmly believe we will get there, the only thing left to believe is that there was/is a concerted scheme to force Trump out. If there was/is a plan to do so, what does that say about the players involved. Has the US become a third world country where power brokers and cabals control elections and outcomes?
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