Nazi Salute?

[fatpiggy]

Sure. I always try to do two things. 1. Ask myself how I would feel if the other side did "insert just about anything here"? and 2. How would I react if this happen to me?

I try really hard when on this forum to take people at their word, discuss the actual issues or point, and to try to see the merits in the other sides position, even if I disagree with it. I also try to point out when something I disagree with is done by both sides, not just the "other".

But the one thing that likely bothers me most in this newer age of politics post Trump, is not ever admitting a mistake. Bothers me on here, bothers me in politics, bothers me at work, bothers me everywhere. We are all human and all make honest mistakes. And Trump just seems to have made it an Art of the Deal thing or something where he never admits a mistake, no matter how innocent, and now I feel like I see it more and more from MAGA. Certainly not only MAGA ftr. But saying you were wrong when its an innocent mistake, or admitting you see the other sides point on something but still disagree overall is not a weakness. And I HATE that it has seemingly been made to be one.

I think that knife cuts both ways. Where are all the people saying that Russia Gate was a mistake? That the impeachment hoaxes against Trump were a mistake? That arresting a political opponents was a mistake? That governement requests to silence speech was an outright violation of the constitution?

If you are observing honestly, which you claim to be doing, you would recognize that democrats do the exact.same.thing.

 

[fatpiggy]

It's my personal opinion, that Russia Gate is where it really went off the tracks.

That's when the American people knew you were lying to us and not admitting it. Social media came onto the scene and information was able to spread too fast for the traditional propaganda to work. Technology outpaced the deep state and they got caught.

 

[UrHuckleberry]

It cutting both ways is my point.

Those are cases where I use my process. If Biden had called Putin and said "I need you to announce a public investigation into Trump or I'm going to raise the sanctions" I would have a HUGE issue with that. I really don't get it. You would too. That is a really big deal to me, and would be regardless of party. I don't think the President should use their office for the express purpose of political gain (huge note that almost everything politicians do is for some political reason, so not including standard optics, etc).

On Russia, when I reverse, and Biden officials have some side meetings with Chinese officials, undisclosed lobbying with China, etc, I would absolutely want the FBI to start investigating that, making sure they are on calls with Chinese officials they can legally track, etc. For all the conservatives talk about the Biden family, I hope that there are investigations into it, making sure they are legal, etc. I don't know why everyone wouldn't want that. Obviously "Russia Gate" as you like to call it became a lot bigger because it became public. And I agreed with charging the lawyer that doctored an email to advance a warrant.

While I do think that Trump did the crime in the NY Case, that is one where I would've preferred it be dropped. The documents case I would absolutely want Biden charged if he didn't return requested documents, told people to move documents when investigators quietly came to get them, had top secret documents shown to people without authorization, etc. I wouldn't want Biden charged if he just had them and returned when requested as the amount of documents they likely have, whats considered yours or there's is a lot, and those docs are everywhere. That Trump ever had them never bothered me. That they were hidden, people were directed to lie/move things/etc absolutely was the issue to me.

 

[UrHuckleberry]

Will add, there are times where I do this on things Trump does and catch myself being frustrated because he is a horrible communicator and I bring my inherent bias to hearing him. Helps me see his actions more honestly too and be frustrated with less.

 

[uuuuuuuuuuuuuuu]

I guess Steven Bannon is an autistic spaz like Elon who just happened to make a gesture resembling a Nazi salute.

 

[UrHuckleberry]

I guess Steven Bannon is an autistic spaz like Elon who just happened to make a gesture resembling a Nazi salute.

Yeah, they know what they're doing.

Now, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and say they are just trolling with it.

But I loathe trolling from public officials (either party), so that has its own issue.

 

[dpic73]

 

[fatpiggy]

View embedded media

If Elon being in power and control results in millions if not billions of humans having their lives improved I am ok with it. Elon has good intentions, this is proved out through his actions. He thinks he is smarter than you, because he is smarter than you. That is ok to admit.

I don't get the hate for the guy.

 

[dpic73]

If Elon being in power and control results in millions if not billions of humans having their lives improved I am ok with it. Elon has good intentions, this is proved out through his actions. He thinks he is smarter than you, because he is smarter than you. That is ok to admit.

I don't get the hate for the guy.

Ask all the destitute people around the world who had their aid cruelly ripped away with no warning
Ask the poor people here who rely on programs that he's dissolving
Ask the people who have been ripped off but were able to recover their losses due to the oversight of the CFPB
Ask all the dedicated public servants who were cruelly dismissed from their lifes work while he mocked their fate with a chainsaw.
All so they he could walk away with a windfall

I could go on....

 

[fatpiggy]

Ask all the destitute people around the world who had their aid cruelly ripped away with no warning
Ask the poor people here who rely on programs that he's dissolving
Ask the people who have been ripped off but were able to recover their losses due to the oversight of the CFPB
Ask all the dedicated public servants who were cruelly dismissed from their lifes work while he mocked their fate with a chainsaw.
All so they he could walk away with a windfall

I could go on....

Dude - that is not Elons fault. Blame your fellow citizens, that is what we voted for. We all agreed that we have more urgent needs in our own country before we should be helping others. When we have our own house in order we may be able to help those people again. But the chart we were on, they were going to be permanently without help because we were going to go bankrupt.

The same with people here. Many of them had superfluous jobs and have been riding the gravy train for too long. But don't hate Elon. Hate your fellow voters. Then look around and ask what they see that you don't. You are severely outmanned right now. It was a landslide int he electoral college, Trump won the popular vote against all odds, and his approval rating is sky high. You are in the big time minority.

Those people got severance until September, the most legally allowed without further legislation. Obama did the same thing. Clinton did the same thing, but you are just here crying ....... exactly why?

 

[UrHuckleberry]

If Elon being in power and control results in millions if not billions of humans having their lives improved I am ok with it. Elon has good intentions, this is proved out through his actions. He thinks he is smarter than you, because he is smarter than you. That is ok to admit.

I don't get the hate for the guy.

Wow do our opinions differ on this. We are both allowed to have our own opinions, but we read him so differently.

 

[dpic73]

Dude - that is not Elons fault. Blame your fellow citizens, that is what we voted for. We all agreed that we have more urgent needs in our own country before we should be helping others. When we have our own house in order we may be able to help those people again. But the chart we were on, they were going to be permanently without help because we were going to go bankrupt.

The same with people here. Many of them had superfluous jobs and have been riding the gravy train for too long. But don't hate Elon. Hate your fellow voters. Then look around and ask what they see that you don't. You are severely outmanned right now. It was a landslide int he electoral college, Trump won the popular vote against all odds, and his approval rating is sky high. You are in the big time minority.

Those people got severance until September, the most legally allowed without further legislation. Obama did the same thing. Clinton did the same thing, but you are just here crying ....... exactly why?

Tax cuts for the rich are not an urgent need
4.5 T in additional debt is not an urgent need
A 19 T deficit over the next 10 years is not an urgent need.

If you fired every single federal employee and ended every govt. program, that would only come to 3% of the total budget

You're in la-la land

 

[fatpiggy]

Wow do our opinions differ on this. We are both allowed to have our own opinions, but we read him so differently.

What do you base your opinions off of? You at least argue in good faith even if we see things differently.

I initially did not like Elon. However, I went on vacation to San Diego 2 Christmases ago and when we are walking along the street, I saw something like 8 Tesla's in a row. Being a numbers nerd, i got to thinking about the probabilities of seeing 8 kinds of car in a row. Do you ever see 8 Toyotas, Hondas, Lexus' or whatever? If you see 8 reds in a row at a roulette table in Vegas, you have seen something fairly rare. So, I was highly intrigued. I thought to myself there has to be more to these cars than just being good for the environment.

After i got back from one of my trips, i needed a new car. So, as a thank you to Elon for buying twitter and supporting free speech i gave the Tesla a try. Never looked in the rear view mirror sense. I enjoy driving again. It's fun to drive. I don't mind running my 4 kids all over the city because its that fun to drive.

So afer that, I read the Elon biography be Walter Isaccson. It explains a lot about his personality and thought process. Anyone who read that biography understands EXACTLY what Elon is doing right now. I love the way he runs his companies. It's not for everyone, i understand that, but there are plenty of other companies you can work at if you want to. I happen to like the way that he runs his companies. I also thing that way will get the best results. The products speak for themselves.

Products don't build themselves. Say what you want but Elon did not inherit his wealth. Elon made his wealth by providing products that people wanted to the masses. He did things that no one else could do. Noise about he didn't start Tsla is laughable. Who cares. In the biography it is clear he made no such claim. Credit was given where it was due.

Elon is an honest actor. He is wrong sometimes but that is OK. However, I have never seen him intentionally deceive. There is a big difference.

So how do you read him?

 

[fatpiggy]

Tax cuts for the rich are not an urgent need
4.5 T in additional debt is not an urgent need
A 19 T deficit over the next 10 years is not an urgent need.

If you fired every single federal employee and ended every govt. program, that would only come to 3% of the total budget

You're in la-la land

Well we need to stimulate the economy without printing more money. That is an urgent need whether you realize it or not.

We are on an unsustainable path. Our spending outstrips our income. We normally pay for that by printing more money, but we can't do that anymore because we are the max inflation that the populace will tolerate.

We must cut government spending. And we must cut it drastically. Get inflation down to the stated goal of 2%.

To do that productivity must go up. Cut the fat get the people into more productive private sector jobs. That is the long term solution.

 

[firegiver]

If Elon being in power and control results in millions if not billions of humans having their lives improved I am ok with it. Elon has good intentions, this is proved out through his actions. He thinks he is smarter than you, because he is smarter than you. That is ok to admit.

I don't get the hate for the guy.

This way of thinking makes no sense.
You have already presumed he is improving people's lives and then off of that assumption working your way back towards excusing his awful tactics.
We have 0 evidence that any of his actions are improving lives. So you probably need to reinforce your assumption with some actual factual data.

Claims he makes on twitter, don't count as evidence, they are made so fast that its impossible for fact checkers to keep up.
His Social Security research is great example as he's gotten every claim I've seen him make dead WRONG. So yes, I can hate the guy for misleading the American public, I think thats a valid reason for hate.

 

[dpic73]

Well we need to stimulate the economy without printing more money. That is an urgent need whether you realize it or not.

We are on an unsustainable path. Our spending outstrips our income. We normally pay for that by printing more money, but we can't do that anymore because we are the max inflation that the populace will tolerate.

We must cut government spending. And we must cut it drastically. Get inflation down to the stated goal of 2%.

To do that productivity must go up. Cut the fat get the people into more productive private sector jobs. That is the long term solution.

Stimulate one of the greatest economies we've had in our lifetimes? Are you mad?

His policies will do the exact opposite - sigh

 

[fatpiggy]

This way of thinking makes no sense.
You have already presumed he is improving people's lives and then off of that assumption working your way back towards excusing his awful tactics.
We have 0 evidence that any of his actions are improving lives. So you probably need to reinforce your assumption with some actual factual data.

Claims he makes on twitter, don't count as evidence, they are made so fast that its impossible for fact checkers to keep up.
His Social Security research is great example as he's gotten every claim I've seen him make dead WRONG. So yes, I can hate the guy for misleading the American public, I think thats a valid reason for hate.

Tesla has single handedly improved my happiness. I get so much joy out of driving that car.

So much I’m going to buy my 3rd one within the next week.

 

[fatpiggy]

Stimulate one of the greatest economies we've had in our lifetimes? Are you mad?

His policies will do the exact opposite - sigh

Post one article that suggests we are in the greatest economy of our lifetimes.

You are delusional @dpic73

 

[fatpiggy]

This way of thinking makes no sense.
You have already presumed he is improving people's lives and then off of that assumption working your way back towards excusing his awful tactics.
We have 0 evidence that any of his actions are improving lives. So you probably need to reinforce your assumption with some actual factual data.

Claims he makes on twitter, don't count as evidence, they are made so fast that its impossible for fact checkers to keep up.
His Social Security research is great example as he's gotten every claim I've seen him make dead WRONG. So yes, I can hate the guy for misleading the American public, I think thats a valid reason for hate.

Another amazing product is Starlink. Think of the improvement that makes for literally millions of people.

No one takes you seriously. You are not arguing in good faith like @UrHuckleberry if you claim Elon is not making products to improve human lives. That is disingenuous.

 

[fatpiggy]

Last - i'll say that i like how Elon is open and discusses his companies openly online. I enjoy seeing the products and progress. I like the updates. I like the technology.

Before Elon, almost all CEO's played things close to the vest. He was the first one to say fvck it, i don't care about the price of my companies stock, I will speak my mind. And i think that is more valuable than anything. I respect that more than any product he has made.

I respect that he stood up the intelligence agencies within Twitter and told them to go fvck themselves. Lots of other high profile CEO's had the chance to do the right thing, but they did not.

Mad respect to Elon.

 

[dpic73]

Post one article that suggests we are in the greatest economy of our lifetimes.

You are delusional @dpic73

Other than inflation, the economy roared.

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/the-biden-administration-handed-over-a-strong-economy/

https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/19/economy/us-biden-economic-legacy/index.html

 

[UrHuckleberry]

What do you base your opinions off of? You at least argue in good faith even if we see things differently.

I initially did not like Elon. However, I went on vacation to San Diego 2 Christmases ago and when we are walking along the street, I saw something like 8 Tesla's in a row. Being a numbers nerd, i got to thinking about the probabilities of seeing 8 kinds of car in a row. Do you ever see 8 Toyotas, Hondas, Lexus' or whatever? If you see 8 reds in a row at a roulette table in Vegas, you have seen something fairly rare. So, I was highly intrigued. I thought to myself there has to be more to these cars than just being good for the environment.

After i got back from one of my trips, i needed a new car. So, as a thank you to Elon for buying twitter and supporting free speech i gave the Tesla a try. Never looked in the rear view mirror sense. I enjoy driving again. It's fun to drive. I don't mind running my 4 kids all over the city because its that fun to drive.

So afer that, I read the Elon biography be Walter Isaccson. It explains a lot about his personality and thought process. Anyone who read that biography understands EXACTLY what Elon is doing right now. I love the way he runs his companies. It's not for everyone, i understand that, but there are plenty of other companies you can work at if you want to. I happen to like the way that he runs his companies. I also thing that way will get the best results. The products speak for themselves.

Products don't build themselves. Say what you want but Elon did not inherit his wealth. Elon made his wealth by providing products that people wanted to the masses. He did things that no one else could do. Noise about he didn't start Tsla is laughable. Who cares. In the biography it is clear he made no such claim.

Elon is an honest actor. He is wrong sometimes but that is OK. However, I have never seen him intentionally deceive. There is a big difference.

So how do you read him?

First off, I loathe trolling, particularly from public figures. So I immediately don't like him for that alone. I think his posting record on X tends to run childish and just regularly disagree with him. I also think he regularly posts things that are unverified and/or show zero nuance, and I think it is either disingenuous on his part, or he's incapable of it. Based on his success in other areas, I don't think its the latter. I also think it is possible he posts while not in a great state of mind, which could lead to that too. Last, I think he seems like he often struggles to connect to people who aren't built the same way he is. I don't disagree with a lot of what you wrote. Have friends that love their Tesla too.

 

[fatpiggy]

Other than inflation, the economy roared.

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/the-biden-administration-handed-over-a-strong-economy/

https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/19/economy/us-biden-economic-legacy/index.html

"Other than infaltion."

Tell us you are economically illiterate without telling us you are economically illiterate.

What a ridiculous statement. (It was the worst inflation in 50 years. lets just leave that out!) What a clown.

 

[dpic73]

"Other than infaltion."

Tell us you are economically illiterate without telling us you are economically illiterate.

What a ridiculous statement. (It was the worst inflation in 50 years. lets just leave that out!) What a clown.

Dude I don't have time to go back and forth with you all day. Jobs, unemployment, consumer spending and stock market at or near record highs. I'm also living it fitsthand at my company as we keep blowing away our yearly projections.

Now you say we need to stimulate the economy while you cry about inflation? Make it make sense.

You're talking in circles and I'm done here.