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OT: Christianity Today

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Lol, the people who hate Christians cause some vote based on their religious beliefs now want them all to vote based on their religious beliefs

I don’t believe Christianity Today falls in either category. It is espousing the same standards of morality and ethics for all. Today, it finds the officeholder unworthy just as it did 20 years ago. Correct in both cases.

The Bible and it’s teachings is not and cannot be interpreted differently because we prefer one instance Or person over the other.
 
Unfortunately for them, being immoral or a bad person isn't grounds for impeachment. It is a reason not to vote for the man if you so desire. It is not a reason to remove him from office. I personally don't think he committed any high crimes and I certainly don't think the Democrats presented any evidence of it.
 
Unfortunately for them, being immoral or a bad person isn't grounds for impeachment. It is a reason not to vote for the man if you so desire. It is not a reason to remove him from office. I personally don't think he committed any high crimes and I certainly don't think the Democrats presented any evidence of it.

thats because you are choosing not to see the evidence laid out before you. To put it bluntly.. those who testified said they thought the president did something wrong. Those who said the president did nothing wrong refused to testify (or trump wouldnt let them).
 
America has never had a leader as antithetical to any standard of decency, Christian or otherwise, as Trump- and that was abundantly clear even before he was elected.

But the same way he gave a wink and a nod to the Clan and Neo-nazis to ensure the hard-core bigot vote, his selection of Pence and promises of more political power for religions had Evangelical leaders falling all over themselves to justify their support for this vile creature. One that got a lot of internet play during the campaign was that sometimes the Lord sends bad people to accomplish good things. What utter rubbish. I heard it from Evangelicals and even Israel's Benjamin Netanyahu.

Netanyahu likened him to Truman and Cyrus the Great of Persia (this was parroted by Pay Robertson and quickly spread through the ranks) who ended the Babylonian occupation- forgetting that morally Trump is not honest enough to sniff Truman's old sweat socks and that Cyrus was one of the more just and reasonable of all rulers in a period of human history noted for its ruthlessness and unnecessary bloodshed.

Simply put, the Christian support was purchased for promises that we might inch a little closer to theocracy than the founders intended. I'd add that it was an easy sell to Evangelicals who are overwhelmingly Republican anyway and Republicans would be hard pressed to find any common ground with Jesus- give your money to the poor, free healing for the sick, welcome strangers etc.
 
I’m in that place too. But man, when the President is withholding aid to countries unless they dig up dirt on his political opponents, I just don’t see how any American couldn’t have serious issues with that.
Every American has issues with that, as long as the President is in the other party.
 
thats because you are choosing not to see the evidence laid out before you. To put it bluntly.. those who testified said they thought the president did something wrong. Those who said the president did nothing wrong refused to testify (or trump wouldnt let them).
You had a Democrat switch to the Republican party because he thought impeachment was wrong. When you have a party openly stating that they are going to try to impeach the man before he is even sworn into office then everything they do has no credibility. It is nothing but a witch hunt.

I think Trump is sleazy. I voted for him because he was the lesser of two evils and was the only option that didn't want to turn the country into a socialist totalitarian state. The fact is that we are in desperate need of a real statesman leader who wants to get back to following the Constitution. The last one we have had was Ronald Reagan.
 
Morals be damned he is on my team so i vote for him

Have heard this from multiple people
 
You had a Democrat switch to the Republican party because he thought impeachment was wrong. When you have a party openly stating that they are going to try to impeach the man before he is even sworn into office then everything they do has no credibility. It is nothing but a witch hunt.

I think Trump is sleazy. I voted for him because he was the lesser of two evils and was the only option that didn't want to turn the country into a socialist totalitarian state. The fact is that we are in desperate need of a real statesman leader who wants to get back to following the Constitution. The last one we have had was Ronald Reagan.

Only a moron would consider Trump the lesser of 2 evils.

Was Hillary a great candidate? No

Was she better than the pos named Donald Trump? You bet your ass she was
 
Trump admits to trying to sleep with a married Clemson Grad (while also married himself). Trump says he just "grabs them in the P&$$&." Trump says he "doesn't like to ask for forgiveness, I'm a good person. I've done many good things."

I mean........... if that stuff didn't bother you, then using foreign aid as leverage for his own political interest isn't going to get you riled up. You sold your soul to the devil long before.
 
So they rather Christian's vote for the party of abortion? Sounds stupid to me.
No. This is not a binary choice. It is not Trump or a liberal democrat. All Christians (and republicans for that matter) have to do is stand up and quit being cowards. Speak out against him. Heck, if he is convicted in the Senate, Mike Pence is your President, not Nancy Pelosi or Elizabeth Warren.

And if you dont like Pence, or don't want to convict over these charges, then speak out and support a viable candidate in a primary. The democratic process is there to be used. Unfortunately the Republican party in SC is not even going to have a primary in order to pledge loyalty to the grand master. How insane is that? Is this America? To say it is Trump or liberal values is weak and false.
 
I’m in that place too. But man, when the President is withholding aid to countries unless they dig up dirt on his political opponents, I just don’t see how any American couldn’t have serious issues with that.
Foreign issues bother much less than domestic ones: what my church is allowed to teach, if I’m allowed to protect myself and my family, if I’m allowed to say (or even think) things that go against the popular rhetoric. I think Trump is mostly a disgusting person, and see him in no way a role model. But as long as he leaves me tf alone, I would rather have him than some of the alternatives.
 
Foreign issues bother much less than domestic ones: what my church is allowed to teach, if I’m allowed to protect myself and my family, if I’m allowed to say (or even think) things that go against the popular rhetoric. I think Trump is mostly a disgusting person, and see him in no way a role model. But as long as he leaves me tf alone, I would rather have him than some of the alternatives.

None of those things are at risk.
 
You had a Democrat switch to the Republican party because he thought impeachment was wrong. When you have a party openly stating that they are going to try to impeach the man before he is even sworn into office then everything they do has no credibility. It is nothing but a witch hunt.

I think Trump is sleazy. I voted for him because he was the lesser of two evils and was the only option that didn't want to turn the country into a socialist totalitarian state. The fact is that we are in desperate need of a real statesman leader who wants to get back to following the Constitution. The last one we have had was Ronald Reagan.

Most all "professional " politicians are sleazy... so I think that is a wash. Trump is the farthest thing from a Statesman. I am 100% with you . I think in many instances he can't get out of his own way.... but even with that, he is getting things done.

Rebuilding the military and pivoting to face our real threats China and Russia and taking real action to counter them ( lethal aid to Ukraine is one action), making real progress closing our southern border, negotiating better trade deals with mexico and china, placing US Citizens and our interests first, forcing our "allies" to bear a larger burden of the cost of their own defense (Europe), setting conditions for record low unemployment overall, record low minority unemployment, making me financially better off through stock market growth, appointing justices and circuit judges who won't legislate from the bench.

Maybe I'll be ready for a "statesman" in 2024.. .but I like the progress so far and want 4 more years of it before messing with success.
 
I’m in that place too. But man, when the President is withholding aid to countries unless they dig up dirt on his political opponents, I just don’t see how any American couldn’t have serious issues with that.

Seriously what aid was withheld? To which countries? Ukraine got the lethal aid to counter Russian-backed aggression that was not granted by the administration led by the man who told Putin that, "after the election I will have more flexibility". No aid was withheld. Nothing was gained by Trump. There is no proof of any pressure, no evidence of a quid pro quo. No grounds to overturn a legitimate election.
 
Foreign issues bother much less than domestic ones: what my church is allowed to teach, if I’m allowed to protect myself and my family, if I’m allowed to say (or even think) things that go against the popular rhetoric. I think Trump is mostly a disgusting person, and see him in no way a role model. But as long as he leaves me tf alone, I would rather have him than some of the alternatives.
When you say "what my church is allowed to teach" it touches on the #1 reason I, as a Christian, am so outspoken against him. Why does it matter what your church is allowed to preach if no non-believer is going to be willing to hear what you have to say in the future because you didnt publicly speak out against someone you rightfully describe as a "disgusting person" and someone you say you see "in no way a role model". By not speaking out you need not worry about the liberals silencing you and your church, you have already silenced yourself to those non-believers who are watching.

The article linked above says it perfectly. "Consider what an unbelieving world will say if you continue to brush off Mr. Trump’s immoral words and behavior in the cause of political expediency. If we don’t reverse course now, will anyone take anything we say about justice and righteousness with any seriousness for decades to come?"
 
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Seriously what aid was withheld? To which countries? Ukraine got the lethal aid to counter Russian-backed aggression that was not granted by the administration led by the man who told Putin that, "after the election I will have more flexibility". No aid was withheld. Nothing was gained by Trump. There is no proof of any pressure, no evidence of a quid pro quo. No grounds to overturn a legitimate election.

Smh. He used his political position to get dirt on an opponent by threatening withdrawing aid. You really cant be this naive right?
 
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Only a moron would consider Trump the lesser of 2 evils.

Was Hillary a great candidate? No

Was she better than the pos named Donald Trump? You bet your ass she was
This attitude is why he got elected and will get reelected. Hillary is a socialist traitor. The things I care about in a candidate are their desire to minimize government, leave me alone, and protect the freedoms I am afforded by the Constitution. Hillary Clinton is for none of that. She wants big government and socialism, she wants to tell me how to live my life, and she wants to destroy the Constitution. Not to mention she abandoned Americans and directly led to their deaths in Bengahzi, and then made up a story to try to justify it. So no, all of Trumps warts don't come close to all of that.
 
Oh im listening. I just dont buy into the same fear mongering rhetoric the GOP spews about "evil democrats"
Ha. I’m not listening to the talking points from the GOP. I’m listening to the Dem presidential candidates saying “hell yes I will take your” guns. And that they want to take away the nonprofit status of churches who don’t believe they same way they do. Or that certain speech (that isn’t inciting violence) should be illegal. Nah - I’m out.
 
Smh. He used his political position to get dirt on an opponent by threatening withdrawing aid. You really cant be this naive right?

Your opinon. Not fact. No evidence. No proof.

Based on the lack of proof I say, move on. On balance he is doing good for this country and for me personally. I don't worship him, and I didn't vote for him because I thought he was the next coming of Mother Theresa. I want him to put me and this country first, do whatever he can to get the government tf out of our lives... and let each and every one of us people take care "charity" part as each individual sees fit.

Hell, his political opponent (Joe Biden) is on tape bragging about using his position as VP to influence a foreign government to fire a prosecutor that was looking into the company that had his drug-using son (with no qualifications) on the payroll. Pretty much the definition of quid pro quo. I have big problems with that. I'm sure we can reach some common ground there?
 
When you say "what my church is allowed to teach" it touches on the #1 reason I, as a Christian, am so outspoken against him. Why does it matter what your church is allowed to preach if no non-believer is going to be willing to hear what you have to say in the future because you didnt publicly speak out against someone you rightfully describe as a "disgusting person" and someone you say you see "in no way a role model". By not speaking out you need not worry about the liberals silencing you and your church, you have already silenced yourself to those non-believers who are watching.

The article linked above says it perfectly. "Consider what an unbelieving world will say if you continue to brush off Mr. Trump’s immoral words and behavior in the cause of political expediency. If we don’t reverse course now, will anyone take anything we say about justice and righteousness with any seriousness for decades to come?"
Man, that’s great! And I appreciate your conviction and more power to you. But, I don’t think morality can be legislated. I think freedom to discuss ideas and to disagree and to persuade is more important than the person who is in office for 4 or 8 years and then is gone. People had these same gloom and doom conversations about every president since I’ve been alive and we’ve survived. Just don’t take away the fundamental rights that precede government, and I’m all good.
 
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