OT: For those who work for a large company do you see a movement to only focus on young staff?

[southerncaltiger]

What I think of as the “great fundamental flaw” in most large corporations...take a great individual performer (esp. an engineer or scientist) and promote him/her to a management role as a reward, without any regard for their personality/ability and without any training. So much fail here. HR should have two “tracks”; some folks are great at what they do, but should never be put in charge of staff. Lose-Lose for the company. Sadly, I see it all the freaking time.

 

[cu1974]

At my company it has become obvious if you are a veteran staff then you are pretty much put out to pasture while they talk about the young professionals. It's obvious that age discrimination is taking place but it'd be impossible to prove

Older equals more pay and benefits. Younger means just the opposite. That simple.

 

[TigerDoc]

No offense, but if market pay exceeds what you are willing to pay your existing employees, it is your fault and harming your company. If they can do better somewhere else, your top talent will go elsewhere. We look at the market for all jobs and make adjustments when appropriate. Otherwise, your “veteran” employees will consist only of people who can’t get a better job somewhere else.

WRT the original question, no I do not agree. Our corporate and my personal philosophy is that I am responsible for my own professional development. It is up to me to develop and if I see a job I want, I should go and get it. In fact, that is just what I did. I may have made too many of those moves within a single employer, but it worked out. I averaged about a year and a half in each job with only half of those moves being promotions. When I eventually moved outside the company, I walked away from a promotion and still got a big pay bump. To illustrate my point regarding making sure you keep pace with the market, my old employer obviously didn’t and they are low on the verge of bankruptcy.

I have 34 years experience and am mentoring a promising young engineering supervisor. I don’t teach him anything about how to be an engineer, but I teach him about how to manage people, how to set and measure against goals, and how to get them to embrace the culture.

Good for you and glad it worked out for you. Agree 100% about professional development being a personal responsibility. Here is something else that I did not share. When wage growth was negative we gave raises. When 401k matches were being dropped we kept ours. When mandatory unpaid furloughs were being enforced, we kept people at forty hours. When companies exclude spouses from medical coverage, we allow them to be covered.

Loyalty and retention involves much more than just compensation. It involves creating an environment where people feel like they can contribute while having an opportunity to grow. The whole pictures matters and compensation is one part of the picture.

 

[BAnksMcFadden]

What I think of as the “great fundamental flaw” in most large corporations...take a great individual performer (esp. an engineer or scientist) and promote him/her to a management role as a reward, without any regard for their personality/ability and without any training. So much fail here. HR should have two “tracks”; some folks are great at what they do, but should never be put in charge of staff. Lose-Lose for the company. Sadly, I see it all the freaking time.

It’s got a name. Called Peter Principle

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

Make yourself relevant. Stay current with technology. Embrace change. Volunteer for new projects.

I'm 60. I've been in technology for 35 years and certainly understand your concerns. Yes, I've been disappointed many times in my career but I've continued to grind. Expect disappointments but keep investing in yourself each day.

I've survived 12 layoffs, 2 mergers and 7 acquisitions. In December, my downtown office was closed and 75% of the staff was dismissed. I was retained and now work from home. I've helped my friends/co-workers carry their belongings to their car after a layoff. I've shed many tears over change through the years.

Life is not fair. Do your best and hold your head high. Keep fighting and show everyone your value. It's a daily grind.

Good luck my friends.

Nothing in life is guaranteed

Making money is about you so be loyal to the person that matters

Worked in the corporate world and used it to get out of that dog eat dog race

My best advice is do something for yourself the moment the opportunity arises and you will never regret it

 

[OrangeRegalia]

Nothing new as far as pay is concerned, this has been happening for many years.

As far as loyalty, there hasn't been any on the employer or employee side either for many years probably since our parents who used to work for the same company for many years, if not their whole career.

One thing my dad always told me was never feel loyalty to your employer because they will never feel it towards you.

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

One thing my dad always told me was never feel loyalty to your employer because they will never feel it towards you.

This is absolutely dead on

The one thing that made me want to throw up is when senior management started talking about being part of a team

Or ethics

If you ever worked with large corporations I don’t have to explain one word more

 

[Buzzards Roost]

Health Care seams to avoid this. As long as you produce.

 

[GoodWord28]

This is not necessarily true. What also happens is that wage growth in the marketplace outpaces wage growth internally and it has nothing to do with performance. New hires from outside the company often command higher wages than someone with similar qualifications who has been with the company for 10 years. Very few companies grow their pay scales at the same rate as the market over time.

I am a VP of HR and I see this all the time. On the flip side, in critical functions we are proactive about keeping up with the market with our pay. Some of the comments in here make me realize just how special my company is. The culture in some of your companies just stinks.

This.


You've got to play the game. You have to switch companies every few years to get market value. Don't ever become complacent.


I left a great company where I was extremely happy two weeks ago for a 15% raise. I'll hopefully have the opportunity to return to the great company by the end of the year with another 15% raise. Play the game.

 

[OrangeRegalia]

This.


You've got to play the game. You have to switch companies every few years to get market value. Don't ever become complacent.


I left a great company where I was extremely happy two weeks ago for a 15% raise. I'll hopefully have the opportunity to return to the great company by the end of the year with another 15% raise. Play the game.

Jobs are the new cable/satellite game apparently.

 

[GoodWord28]

This is absolutely dead on

The one thing that made me want to throw up is when senior management started talking about being part of a team

Or ethics

If you ever worked with large corporations I don’t have to explain one word more

Yep. Also, everyones ethical when business is good.

 

[Taylor1111]

My company has things in place to recruit college graduates. However, they must pay their dues and the best advance quickly. Positions must be available for them to advance. Generally when a position comes open it’s due to retirement or advancement by the person in the job. For positions below management it is based on seniority and work history. Hourly positions is based on seniority.

 

[iceheart08]

This.


You've got to play the game. You have to switch companies every few years to get market value. Don't ever become complacent.


I left a great company where I was extremely happy two weeks ago for a 15% raise. I'll hopefully have the opportunity to return to the great company by the end of the year with another 15% raise. Play the game.

Salaries spike very quickly in my industry for exactly this reason.

 

[Goin Coastal]

This.


You've got to play the game. You have to switch companies every few years to get market value. Don't ever become complacent.


I left a great company where I was extremely happy two weeks ago for a 15% raise. I'll hopefully have the opportunity to return to the great company by the end of the year with another 15% raise. Play the game.

Pump the breaks a little. This depends on the industry/size of the company/position. I will not hire somebody that jumps around too much even if they have the best resume and best interview. I will not even consider it.

 

[GoodWord28]

Pump the breaks a little. This depends on the industry/size of the company/position. I will not hire somebody that jumps around too much even if they have the best resume and best interview. I will not even consider it.

What would you say about making a move every 3 years?


I respect your position to be sure, but if a company is offering me market value vs an annual merit increase of 3% and promotions that still pay me under market value..... Can you really blame someone for wanting a fair salary?

 

[Goin Coastal]

I

What would you say about making a move every 3 years?


I respect your position to be sure, but if a company is offering me market value vs an annual merit increase of 3% and promotions that still pay me under market value..... Can you really blame someone for wanting a fair salary?

In your example you have a job and are being offered another better position. As long as that is the case I don’t see anything wrong with it. A lot of people do not have that kind of opportunity due to their position/industry.

 

[clemsontigerfan07]

In lots of cases though they come in making close to the same pay as much more veteran employees. I would have less of a problem if they had more skills or knowledge but they don't. They also are not as loyal.

Quick question, how exactly do you know how much these people are making? I find it odd you would know how much people make unless you're a manager

 

[GoodWord28]

I

In your example you have a job and are being offered another better position. As long as that is the case I don’t see anything wrong with it. A lot of people do not have that kind of opportunity due to their position/industry.

Got it. The folks that makes multiple lateral moves are the issue. Totally agree there.

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

This.


You've got to play the game. You have to switch companies every few years to get market value. Don't ever become complacent.


I left a great company where I was extremely happy two weeks ago for a 15% raise. I'll hopefully have the opportunity to return to the great company by the end of the year with another 15% raise. Play the game.

You are so right

Keep switching as after about 2 years you are old news
I recommend switching every 3 years like clockwork

 

[TimmyBobby]

No that’s against the law. People are focusing on diversity of applicants in large companies

 

[tigerworx]

Good for you and glad it worked out for you. Agree 100% about professional development being a personal responsibility. Here is something else that I did not share. When wage growth was negative we gave raises. When 401k matches were being dropped we kept ours. When mandatory unpaid furloughs were being enforced, we kept people at forty hours. When companies exclude spouses from medical coverage, we allow them to be covered.

Loyalty and retention involves much more than just compensation. It involves creating an environment where people feel like they can contribute while having an opportunity to grow. The whole pictures matters and compensation is one part of the picture.

Somehow, I missed this discussion and in particular, your comment. Spot on.

Seems you MAY have asked about some financial comment I made.
If not, ignore.
If so, I apologize profusely for not replying. I meant to and forgot.

Nothing magic, and I have nothing to sell you or receive $$ in any way.
Just stuff I have learned in the past few years that blew me away and wondered why no one ever talks about it. The Banks do, the Walmarts do it, the Wealthy have always done it and it protects their wealth while growing it in fantastic ways.

I had sent a link to info to various people on here out of another thread and they poo-pooed it.
To each his own.

If you want, I'll PM you some info.
To me, even learning what I would never do is still learning.

Appreciate your logical input on the board.

Blessings,
Thom

 

[CU Alumnus]

Pump the breaks a little. This depends on the industry/size of the company/position. I will not hire somebody that jumps around too much even if they have the best resume and best interview. I will not even consider it.

One reason I've stayed where I am as long as I have is that before that I hadn't really stayed anywhere past 4 years. Felt like I needed some stability. Plus it's not a bad place to work and I'm paid fairly.

Got it. The folks that makes multiple lateral moves are the issue. Totally agree there.

I've worked at companies that encourage that - within the company. For a manager they always wanted someone from a different facility. One of our engineers was asked why he hadn't considered a lateral move from South Carolina to Nebraska.

 

[nytigerfan]

At my company it has become obvious if you are a veteran staff then you are pretty much put out to pasture while they talk about the young professionals. It's obvious that age discrimination is taking place but it'd be impossible to prove

I have a close group of buddies from business school that we get together at least once a year. We were in Austin about a month ago. A handful of them are working for big companies, doing well making about $300K per year, pushing 50.. and they are all terrified. They see the writing on the wall that if the stock price starts dropping they will be the first on the chopping block. The senior management above them isnt going to fire themselves, so the top of middle management will be let go and replaced with younger, cheaper labor.

Since that trip a month ago, one of those guys has resigned and taken a new job at a pay cut with a startup out in Utah (he is relocating the family and his wife is not thrilled about). If that company goes public in about 5-6 years, he will be worth millions. if they dont, he will have moved his family to Utah for a pay cut. But he will be 50 next year, just felt that the clock was ticking for him at the big bank he was working for.

Big companies have zero loyalty to their employees. This is why I went out on my own and started a business. It sucked for years, making very little money. Those same friends were inviting us on trips to places we could not afford. But we grinded and built the business. Every year of struggle was worth it to be in the position we are in now.

 

[hopefultiger13]

At my company it has become obvious if you are a veteran staff then you are pretty much put out to pasture while they talk about the young professionals. It's obvious that age discrimination is taking place but it'd be impossible to prove

Well, I work at a University now, not a private company, BUT I don't see any age discrimination here. We just hired two developers, one of whom is older than I am.

As for loyalty, there hasn't been any in business for many many years. I've never felt any particular loyalty to the places I've worked for mostly b/c I KNEW that if I wasn't useful and a good return on their investment I'd be out the door in a heart beat.

Realize that loyalty to your coworkers is different than loyalty to the company.