OT- If you really want to kill someone why not become a police officer?

[andcam]

It's football season but stupid post like this should never be posted. Yes some police are bad but it doesn't outweigh not having them.

Totally agree!

 

[VeniceTiger]

I assume you are talking about the knife wielding person who was dead set (no pun intended) on getting a cop to shoot Them and even wrote a suicide note beforehand?

Even so, can't the cop just tase the kid? Or use pepper spray? Or just hit him with a Billy club? Do we teach cops how to do anything other than fatally shoot people?

 

[matt9679]

Ok. What does that have to do with your claim that a pocket knife is necessarily a deadly weapon?

FWIW, I don't really give a shit about litigating the GT kid's suicide/death. It's one of the less egregious police shootings over the last 3-4 years.

But let's not pretend the cop there was in some grave danger.

Only in America do cops demand respect because their job is dangerous, then kill people at the first sign of any potential danger.

It goes like this--if you kill people at the first sign of danger, then your job is not dangerous. Your job is only dangerous if you accept some danger in an attempt to save lives. Shooting before you could ever potentially be harmed removes the danger. You may deserve respect for some other reason (maybe because you are in authority, and in fascist Amerikkka we love those in authority). But you don't deserve respect because the job is dangerous.

It'd be like a fireman choosing not to go into a building whenever it was burning. That's what cops do when they shoot before the danger is evident. It's also what's wrong with this "whatever it takes, please come home" mindset that permeates policing. Can you imagine if the wives of firefighters had campaigns that said, "Whatever it takes, bring yourself home," as if to suggest the most important thing for a firefighter is avoiding danger?

I want cops to behave like heroes. Many of them do. Some guy came rattling on my door at 3AM, drunk, belligerent. We called the police. The guy was Hispanic. The cop came up in the dark and didn't have his gun drawn despite the highly tense situation. He ended up finding out the drunk guy banging on our door had been assaulted at some point. Gave the guy a ride home eventually.

That situation could end a million times worse with a belligerent drunk not following instructions. But that cop as willing to accept some danger. So it didn't.

That's not how this works. You dont get to call all cops stupid, then in your next post give an example of a good cop doing his job. He is just a stupid failure at life according to you no matter how well he did his job. You can still go F*** yourself. Starting a conversation by calling everyone in a group stupid makes all future post by you irrelevant.

 

[SkyHighTIger]

I'm making sure I'm understanding what you are saying. Police,FBI,Secret service, etc.... is uneducated?

There's a seriously long distance between FBI agents and your local cops on patrol.

Notice I did not say all law enforcement. Federal agents are usually sharp, smart, qualified people who are really good at life. Notice that Secret Service people don't typically kill people unless there is a clear and present danger. Despite the fact that they're defending high value targets.

No, I don't concede that your average sheriff's deputy in Bumb****, SC or the average patrol cop in Atlanta is on par with a federal agent. That you believe this is the case means that the cop marketing has worked well (in which cops associate themselves with superior law enforcement, and worse, with actually brave soldiers).

 

[SkyHighTIger]

That's not how this works. You dont get to call all cops stupid, then in your next post give an example of a good cop doing his job. He is just a stupid failure at life according to you no matter how well he did his job. You can still go F*** yourself. Starting a conversation by calling everyone in a group stupid makes all future post by you irrelevant.

My critique is of the culture surrounding police officers, in which low salaries are paid for bad work to attract people who have no other options. Then those people are trained badly and told, over and over, that every person is looking to harm them. Then they aren't held accountable for their actions by DAs who won't charge them and juries that won't convict them.

It's a problem that feeds itself. As more cops are allowed to get away with killing people, and as cop culture becomes more insular and self-supporting, more people with tendencies toward aggression and violence will self-select into copping.

I don't dispute that quite a few good people have these jobs. I just know there are pressures that press on good people to surrender their goodness in order to succeed in these departments.

 

[Esso Porch]

Lots of people smarter than me. Most of them not cops.

Well obviously most people smarter than you aren't cops. That would require there to be around 200 million cops in this country

 

[matt9679]

My critique is of the culture surrounding police officers, in which low salaries are paid for bad work to attract people who have no other options. Then those people are trained badly and told, over and over, that every person is looking to harm them. Then they aren't held accountable for their actions by DAs who won't charge them and juries that won't convict them.

It's a problem that feeds itself. As more cops are allowed to get away with killing people, and as cop culture becomes more insular and self-supporting, more people with tendencies toward aggression and violence will self-select into copping.

I don't dispute that quite a few good people have these jobs. I just know there are pressures that press on good people to surrender their goodness in order to succeed in these departments.

 

[scartiger]

There's a seriously long distance between FBI agents and your local cops on patrol.

Notice I did not say all law enforcement. Federal agents are usually sharp, smart, qualified people who are really good at life. Notice that Secret Service people don't typically kill people unless there is a clear and present danger. Despite the fact that they're defending high value targets.

No, I don't concede that your average sheriff's deputy in Bumb****, SC or the average patrol cop in Atlanta is on par with a federal agent. That you believe this is the case means that the cop marketing has worked well (in which cops associate themselves with superior law enforcement, and worse, with actually brave soldiers).

I hope that you are young in age.

 

[rliner82]

No. Clueless is the look on a police officer's face when he gets ripped to shreds on cross examination. The best part of the criminal justice system is watching them fidget under oath when skewered by someone smart.

Of course, they'll lie their asses off and jurors will believe them anyway. So it doesn't matter.

Never experienced this, nor have I seen a coworker. Nice try though.

 

[rliner82]

Seems like the opposite of snowflake. It’s a legit issue in our country. Too many trigger happy cops. Cops are here to supply a service to it’s citizens, not be jury and executioner.

Well if you're going to hold "Cops" to this standard you need to hold "Citizens" to it as well. But I forgot that all "Citizens" are just such law abiding people.

 

[SkyHighTIger]

Never experienced this, nor have I seen a coworker. Nice try though.

Dunning-Kruger Effect in play here.

 

[SkyHighTIger]

Well if you're going to hold "Cops" to this standard you need to hold "Citizens" to it as well. But I forgot that all "Citizens" are just such law abiding people.

It's your position that I should hold citizens, who are just average people without the right to arrest other people, to the same standard as police officers?

Excellent example of the sort of bullshit that justifies everything I wrote above.

No. I'll hold you to a higher standard. Because you have a gun and a badge and power. That's reasonable.

 

[Alpha Tiger 95]

Even so, can't the cop just tase the kid? Or use pepper spray? Or just hit him with a Billy club? Do we teach cops how to do anything other than fatally shoot people?

No, because the police don’t meet the danger level on the same level. They don’t fight knives with knives. Pepper spray is limited until about 6-8 feet away. Not remotely practical to wait until an attacker is that close with a knife. (21 ft is the reactionary distance).
Tasers don’t work on everyone or all the time. Clothing, environment, movement all play a factor. Some people don’t respond to being tased.

Someone shows a knife and they’ll be met with a gun. While it’s a common argument to make, its not reasonable or acceptable for police to go at the same level of a fight/weapon as they’re facing.

 

[rliner82]

It's your position that I should hold citizens, who are just average people without the right to arrest other people, to the same standard as police officers?

Excellent example of the sort of bullshit that justifies everything I wrote above.

No. I'll hold you to a higher standard. Because you have a gun and a badge and power. That's reasonable.

And I'm going to continue to treat everyone that I come in contact with with the respect that I would want In return. That's just how I roll. I don't know what experiences you have had with law enforcement, but I will say in 8 years on the job I have worked with some of the most professional, smart, and just down right good people. Never have I heard or seen one of them say that they wanted to shoot someone. All, myself included, hope and pray that you never have to use your service weapon.

 

[SkyHighTIger]

If police officers are going to respond to the sight of a knife by shooting the thing holding the knife, without using any discretion or judgment or using any skill to disarm the single pocket knife wielder, then why not just have drones carry out policing? It would be way cheaper.

 

[SkyHighTIger]

Never have I heard or seen one of them say that they wanted to shoot someone.

I would hope not.

Of course, nothing says, "I'm in policing to do the right thing and I'm definitely not drawn to the death and destruction of it all" like a picture of a skull with a blue line going through it.

 

[Alpha Tiger 95]

If police officers are going to respond to the sight of a knife by shooting the thing holding the knife, without using any discretion or judgment or using any skill to disarm the single pocket knife wielder, then why not just have drones carry out policing? It would be way cheaper.

It’s ludicrous to expect a policeman to disarm someone with a knife using it a threatening or harmful manner. So you think a police officer should go into hand to hand combat trying to take the knife away? Get real

 

[SkyHighTIger]

It’s ludicrous to expect a policeman to disarm someone with a knife using it a threatening or harmful manner. So you think a police officer should go into hand to hand combat trying to take the knife away? Get real

Why do you insist I have lower expectations for American police officers than people in Europe have for their police officers?

And I think cops take great liberty with the phrase "threatening or harmful manner."

 

[rliner82]

I'll also

I would hope not.

Of course, nothing says, "I'm in policing to do the right thing and I'm definitely not drawn to the death and destruction of it all" like a picture of a skull with a blue line going through it.

yeah. The Punisher is a cool show.

 

[Alpha Tiger 95]

Maybe because our violent crime rates are higher or. more guns are available to be carried. Or pick several reasons.

You make the blanket statement that every suspect carrying a knife is fatally shot by a police officer. Look into the stats and real life. Only a small percentage of those encounters result in a fatal shooting. Many more times than not that encounter ends without death.

In a perfect world there would be a peaceful resolution to every encounter. Sadly, that’s not the case.

 

[SkyHighTIger]

Maybe because our violent crime rates are higher or. more guns are available to be carried. Or pick several reasons.

This is bullshit. We are talking about situations wherein cops respond to people with knives. Individual people. With knives. In that scenario, the crime rate in both Europe and the US is 100%. And the rate of people having a gun is 0%.

My question to you was simple--why can Europeans expect their police officers to deal with knife-holding people without using a gun on them, while I am expected to accept as normal a police officer needing to use deadly force on that person?

Don't distract from my question because it's hard and/or uncomfortable. I wasn't asking a question generally about why American police officers carry guns while European police officers (largely) do not. I was asking my question.

Answer it or don't. But don't go all Slytherin on me.

 

[SkyHighTIger]

You make the blanket statement that every suspect carrying a knife is fatally shot by a police officer. Look into the stats and real life. Only a small percentage of those encounters result in a fatal shooting. Many more times than not that encounter ends without death.

No. I never made that statement. You made that statement on my behalf because it's an easy one to argue against. The old Strawman fallacy on full display.

It's interesting to watch you wiggle. The misdirection you're employing here is telling.

You made the statement that it's not "reasonable" or "acceptable" to ask officers to respond to force with equal force. I told you that all across the world, in places we believe are our equal, cops do respond in equal kind. And it works.

You've still not responded as to why I should expect anything less of American police officers.

 

[rliner82]

Maybe because our violent crime rates are higher or. more guns are available to be carried. Or pick several reasons.

You make the blanket statement that every suspect carrying a knife is fatally shot by a police officer. Look into the stats and real life. Only a small percentage of those encounters result in a fatal shooting. Many more times than not that encounter ends without death.

In a perfect world there would be a peaceful resolution to every encounter. Sadly, that’s not the case.

Man, you can't show any reason or logic to this guy. He's a professional on the topic because he has spent so many hours on the job...

 

[Alpha Tiger 95]

This is bullshit. We are talking about situations wherein cops respond to people with knives. Individual people. With knives. In that scenario, the crime rate in both Europe and the US is 100%. And the rate of people having a gun is 0%.


My question to you was simple--why can Europeans expect their police officers to deal with knife-holding people without using a gun on them, while I am expected to accept as normal a police officer needing to use deadly force on that person?

Don't distract from my question because it's hard and/or uncomfortable. I wasn't asking a question generally about why American police officers carry guns while European police officers (largely) do not. I was asking my question.

Answer it or don't. But don't go all Slytherin on me.

I don’t care why they do things the way they do in Europe. You’re insane if you think police here in the US are not going to carry firearms. Your question isn’t hard or uncomfortable. Fact is that law enforcement here is different on many levels. And yeah, the crime levels, types of crimes and amount of violent crime does play a factor into it. Into how things are dealt with, weapons used or the very laws involved. Our culture is different (not saying better or worse—just different). And yes, our laws a quite different.

Again, you make it that every encounter with a police officer and a knife ends with death. It doesn’t. But I certainly would never expect the police to be held to some ridiculous standard of not using deadly force against someone using a knife.

 

[Trading Tiger]

Ok. What does that have to do with your claim that a pocket knife is necessarily a deadly weapon?

FWIW, I don't really give a shit about litigating the GT kid's suicide/death. It's one of the less egregious police shootings over the last 3-4 years.

But let's not pretend the cop there was in some grave danger.

Only in America do cops demand respect because their job is dangerous, then kill people at the first sign of any potential danger.

It goes like this--if you kill people at the first sign of danger, then your job is not dangerous. Your job is only dangerous if you accept some danger in an attempt to save lives. Shooting before you could ever potentially be harmed removes the danger. You may deserve respect for some other reason (maybe because you are in authority, and in fascist Amerikkka we love those in authority). But you don't deserve respect because the job is dangerous.

It'd be like a fireman choosing not to go into a building whenever it was burning. That's what cops do when they shoot before the danger is evident. It's also what's wrong with this "whatever it takes, please come home" mindset that permeates policing. Can you imagine if the wives of firefighters had campaigns that said, "Whatever it takes, bring yourself home," as if to suggest the most important thing for a firefighter is avoiding danger?

I want cops to behave like heroes. Many of them do. Some guy came rattling on my door at 3AM, drunk, belligerent. We called the police. The guy was Hispanic. The cop came up in the dark and didn't have his gun drawn despite the highly tense situation. He ended up finding out the drunk guy banging on our door had been assaulted at some point. Gave the guy a ride home eventually.

That situation could end a million times worse with a belligerent drunk not following instructions. But that cop as willing to accept some danger. So it didn't.

@SkyHighTIger has a very @highereducation tone to his posts.

 

[n e w t o n]

I don't care if the cop uses a gun or a bazooka. Just eliminate the threat with the idiot running around with a knife. This is such a stupid thread. All you have to do as a citizen is follow the rules and laws set by society and you won't be shot by a cop. If a cop gives you directions you follow them and you won't be shot. It's that simple. If the cop is in the wrong then it will come out later and actions will be taken.

The media glossed over how the one guy was high as a kite who was killed by the female cop. He wasn't following orders. Who knows what that person will do next? When the Brown guy was shot a few years ago the media says "unarmed teenager". It should have said "225lb adult" but that doesn't fit their agenda. He wasn't following orders and if he hadn't robbed a store he wouldn't have been approached by the cop in the first place. I love how that is never mentioned.

If I'm a cop I'm looking out for me first. If I am in a situation where someone is not following orders then who know what the next step will be for that individual especially if they are armed.

It's the same way for self defense as a civilian. I don't have to wait until I'm punched in the face before I'm allowed to defend myself. If I am threatened by either words or actions I consider to be threatening I'm allowed to blast that guy first. I don't have to wait for him to break my jaw before I can defend myself. Cops should be allowed to defend themselves against someone who doesn't follow orders. I'm tired of people saying the cop should look after the civilian first.

Again, just follow the instructions by the cop and you won't be shot.

 

[rliner82]

I don't care if the cop uses a gun or a bazooka. Just eliminate the threat with the idiot running around with a knife. This is such a stupid thread. All you have to do as a citizen is follow the rules and laws set by society and you won't be shot by a cop. If a cop gives you directions you follow them and you won't be shot. It's that simple. If the cop is in the wrong then it will come out later and actions will be taken.

The media glossed over how the one guy was high as a kite who was killed by the female cop. He wasn't following orders. Who knows what that person will do next? When the Brown guy was shot a few years ago the media says "unarmed teenager". It should have said "225lb adult" but that doesn't fit their agenda. He wasn't following orders and if he hadn't robbed a store he wouldn't have been approached by the cop in the first place. I love how that is never mentioned.

If I'm a cop I'm looking out for me first. If I am in a situation where someone is not following orders then who know what the next step will be for that individual especially if they are armed.

It's the same way for self defense as a civilian. I don't have to wait until I'm punched in the face before I'm allowed to defend myself. If I am threatened by either words or actions I consider to be threatening I'm allowed to blast that guy first. I don't have to wait for him to break my jaw before I can defend myself. Cops should be allowed to defend themselves against someone who doesn't follow orders. I'm tired of people saying the cop should look after the civilian first.

Again, just follow the instructions by the cop and you won't be shot.

This guy gets it.

 

[Howard's Jock]

Sorry. Won't put on a police uniform because I wasn't in remedial high school classes.

We all acknowledge that these people are losers until they start doing the hard and worthy work of controlling black people. Then the kid who wore #61 on your high school football team only because there was a no-cut rule, and who piddled through high school making Cs in easy classes becomes a hero because...reasons.

No thanks.

I’m sure you’re brilliant. Just ask you.

 

[Howard's Jock]

Ok. What does that have to do with your claim that a pocket knife is necessarily a deadly weapon?

FWIW, I don't really give a shit about litigating the GT kid's suicide/death. It's one of the less egregious police shootings over the last 3-4 years.

But let's not pretend the cop there was in some grave danger.

Only in America do cops demand respect because their job is dangerous, then kill people at the first sign of any potential danger.

It goes like this--if you kill people at the first sign of danger, then your job is not dangerous. Your job is only dangerous if you accept some danger in an attempt to save lives. Shooting before you could ever potentially be harmed removes the danger. You may deserve respect for some other reason (maybe because you are in authority, and in fascist Amerikkka we love those in authority). But you don't deserve respect because the job is dangerous.

It'd be like a fireman choosing not to go into a building whenever it was burning. That's what cops do when they shoot before the danger is evident. It's also what's wrong with this "whatever it takes, please come home" mindset that permeates policing. Can you imagine if the wives of firefighters had campaigns that said, "Whatever it takes, bring yourself home," as if to suggest the most important thing for a firefighter is avoiding danger?

I want cops to behave like heroes. Many of them do. Some guy came rattling on my door at 3AM, drunk, belligerent. We called the police. The guy was Hispanic. The cop came up in the dark and didn't have his gun drawn despite the highly tense situation. He ended up finding out the drunk guy banging on our door had been assaulted at some point. Gave the guy a ride home eventually.

That situation could end a million times worse with a belligerent drunk not following instructions. But that cop as willing to accept some danger. So it didn't.

Fascist amerikkka?

 

[SkyHighTIger]

If I'm a cop I'm looking out for me first.

That's not the ****ing job, you twit.

If that's the job, then we can stop giving these high school flunkies $30k/year and just use drones. With the stuff Google's doing, drones are probably smarter than cops at this point.

 

[Steven15]

Ok. What does that have to do with your claim that a pocket knife is necessarily a deadly weapon?

FWIW, I don't really give a shit about litigating the GT kid's suicide/death. It's one of the less egregious police shootings over the last 3-4 years.

But let's not pretend the cop there was in some grave danger.

Only in America do cops demand respect because their job is dangerous, then kill people at the first sign of any potential danger.

It goes like this--if you kill people at the first sign of danger, then your job is not dangerous. Your job is only dangerous if you accept some danger in an attempt to save lives. Shooting before you could ever potentially be harmed removes the danger. You may deserve respect for some other reason (maybe because you are in authority, and in fascist Amerikkka we love those in authority). But you don't deserve respect because the job is dangerous.

It'd be like a fireman choosing not to go into a building whenever it was burning. That's what cops do when they shoot before the danger is evident. It's also what's wrong with this "whatever it takes, please come home" mindset that permeates policing. Can you imagine if the wives of firefighters had campaigns that said, "Whatever it takes, bring yourself home," as if to suggest the most important thing for a firefighter is avoiding danger?

I want cops to behave like heroes. Many of them do. Some guy came rattling on my door at 3AM, drunk, belligerent. We called the police. The guy was Hispanic. The cop came up in the dark and didn't have his gun drawn despite the highly tense situation. He ended up finding out the drunk guy banging on our door had been assaulted at some point. Gave the guy a ride home eventually.

That situation could end a million times worse with a belligerent drunk not following instructions. But that cop as willing to accept some danger. So it didn't.

Per capita you are more likely to die tending a bar or driving a taxi than a police officer on duty

 

[Casa_del_Tigre]

So has it been said why the cop didn't use a teaser instead of shooting him?

Because they don’t have to

Well if you're going to hold "Cops" to this standard you need to hold "Citizens" to it as well. But I forgot that all "Citizens" are just such law abiding people.

I didn’t say that all citizens are law abiding people, but breaking the law shouldn’t give a cop a license to kill.

I’m not arguing shooting an armed man that’s a threat. I’m sure you agreed with the Charleston cop that shot the guy in the back, because you know... self defense.

 

[amynhop]

Really hate to see this inflammatory thread on the board. It's a shvt post and has no place on main board or round table. Sure, there a a few rogue cops out there.... but far more good ones busting their butts for very little pay who are trying to do the right thing and maintain law and order.

Here's an epiphany for you idiots who agree with OP's shvt post. Don't break the law and if you're stopped by an officer, follow instructions. You won't get shot! Very simple. Easy as pie. I certainly don't ever worry about being shot by a policeman. Because it's not going to happen. I back the blue!!!!!!

 

[TigerOnTheFly]

That's not the ****ing job, you twit.

If that's the job, then we can stop giving these high school flunkies $30k/year and just use drones. With the stuff Google's doing, drones are probably smarter than cops at this point.

Name calling, that's just great. You won't win this argument on here, Newt is right and your time might be better spent at Huff Post where you have many others who will agree with you

 

[Casa_del_Tigre]

Really hate to see this inflammatory thread on the board. It's a shvt post and has no place on main board or round table. Sure, there a a few rogue cops out there.... but far more good ones busting their butts for very little pay who are trying to do the right thing and maintain law and order.

Here's an epiphany for you idiots who agree with OP's shvt post. Don't break the law and if you're stopped by an officer, follow instructions. You won't get shot! Very simple. Easy as pie. I certainly don't ever worry about being shot by a policeman. Because it's not going to happen. I back the blue!!!!!!

So not doing what a police officer says should be reason for a cop to kill someone? Do you realize that cops are trained to trick you into giving up your rights? Why have warrants or any trials, just let the police decide how the want to rule. I’m sorry I don’t want to live in a police state.

 

[n e w t o n]

That's not the ****ing job, you twit.

If that's the job, then we can stop giving these high school flunkies $30k/year and just use drones. With the stuff Google's doing, drones are probably smarter than cops at this point.

That's not the ****ing job, you twit.

If that's the job, then we can stop giving these high school flunkies $30k/year and just use drones. With the stuff Google's doing, drones are probably smarter than cops at this point.

Ok. The next time you need assistance don't call 911. Just call the local real estate company with a drone. Fine by me.

 

[n e w t o n]

That's not the ****ing job, you twit.

If that's the job, then we can stop giving these high school flunkies $30k/year and just use drones. With the stuff Google's doing, drones are probably smarter than cops at this point.

If a person ever breaks into your house and you tell them to leave and they don't make sure you don't shoot and kill them. That would be bad. Just subdue them and look out for their best interest first.

 

[amynhop]

So not doing what a police officer says should be reason for a cop to kill someone? Do you realize that cops are trained to trick you into giving up your rights? Why have warrants or any trials, just let the police decide how the want to rule. I’m sorry I don’t want to live in a police state.

I guess it would depend on situation/ circumstances. This is a very violent world we live in and police work can be dangerous. Cops have families that they are trying to go home to. If you are stopped/ arrested and are disobeying orders given to you by an armed police officer, you're a damn fool.

 

[n e w t o n]

So not doing what a police officer says should be reason for a cop to kill someone? Do you realize that cops are trained to trick you into giving up your rights? Why have warrants or any trials, just let the police decide how the want to rule. I’m sorry I don’t want to live in a police state.

Yes warrants are for gathering evidence for trials to decide if you are guilty or innocent. Completely different from idiots running around with weapons who don't listen to instructions.

I wonder how you would feel if a guy with a knife at the mall wasn't shot by the cop because they wanted to protect that person but yet that person stabbed your family member.

 

[Casa_del_Tigre]

Yes warrants are for gathering evidence for trials to decide if you are guilty or innocent. Completely different from idiots running around with weapons who don't listen to instructions.

I wonder how you would feel if a guy with a knife at the mall wasn't shot by the cop because they wanted to protect that person but yet that person stabbed your family member.

I’m not against cops shooting people. I’m against cops shooting people when there is another option. Look at the kid that was killed in Seneca. He was a teenage pot dealer and is now dead... Even if the cop didn’t get in trouble he murdered that kid.

And I like how I’m standing up for lives and it is the most offensive thing posted today... I don’t support BLM, and the Blue Lives Matter is one of the stupidest things I’ve seen. Who is arguing cops should die?