OT: It really is the "Devil's Playground"
- Thread starter longcreektiger
- Start date
While I would agree you TRY to belittle those whose opinion is different; however, I wouldn't include you in that group. You don't seem to have any beliefs unless you want to count taking money from those who earn it and giving it to those who want it while not excluding those who don't deserve it. I just cannot take someone that far left of center serious. Oh, but... no offense intended.
1 Corinthians 1:18-19 New International Version (NIV)
Christ Crucified Is Goda€™s Power and Wisdom
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:
a€œI will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.a€? [a]
Footnotes:
a. 1 Corinthians 1:19 Isaiah 29:14
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Christ Crucified Is Goda€™s Power and Wisdom
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:
a€œI will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.a€? [a]
Footnotes:
a. 1 Corinthians 1:19 Isaiah 29:14
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Yep.
Excellent post because I've grown tired of this crap too.
I wish I could get the 20 seconds of my life back from reading this post until Army's response.
How dare you comment on the article this thread was started for? Don't you know the original post was intended to just be a jumping off point for a debate on Christianity?
After reading through most of these most it still amazes me
that Jesus died for each and everyone of us. And God loves each of us so much that He gave His Son for me and you and you and you.....(just put your name in there whether you believe it or not). That's why Grace is so amazing!!!!!!
that Jesus died for each and everyone of us. And God loves each of us so much that He gave His Son for me and you and you and you.....(just put your name in there whether you believe it or not). That's why Grace is so amazing!!!!!!
I don't see SB passing judgment...just the opposite. Sounds like he cares enough about where you spend eternity to provide the truth.
The Bible says that no man is without excuse. There is a still small voice in all of us that points us to the TRUTH. And yes, there is no salvation for those who don't accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. The only way to heaven is through Jesus. I know that sounds narrow-minded and exclusive but there ARE some non-negotiables in the world still. This is one of them. It comes down to whether you believe that the Bible is the inerrant word of God or not. I am not willing to gamble my eternity that it isn't.
Re: After reading through most of these most it still amazes me
If so (and I'm pretty sure he did) then it's a little bit less impressive that you make it sound. Don't you agree?
Didn't God know that his son would be just fine in the end? Didn't he know that he'd end up in heaven?
If so (and I'm pretty sure he did) then it's a little bit less impressive that you make it sound. Don't you agree?
Re: After reading through most of these most it still amazes me
If you had/have a child and he was tortured and in intense pain yet you knew he'd be ok in the end, wouldn't you still suffer while he was undergoing the pain???
If you had/have a child and he was tortured and in intense pain yet you knew he'd be ok in the end, wouldn't you still suffer while he was undergoing the pain???
I know this was way back in the thread, but Why are some of you so afraid of "fear"? It can lead to a right healthy life...and eternity. I know we live in this macho "no fear" world. But fear kept me from touching a hot stove. Fear keeps me from walking in the middle of busy highways. Fear keeps me from jumping off of cliffs. Fear keeps me from screwing around with other women(Bobbit). Fear leads me to make wiser choices.
I agree, it is not the best motivator for a healthy relationship, but it can keep me on the path that leads me to a healthy future. For some of you to stand as if you are not fearful of anything, especially God, is a major mistake.
Perhaps because many of those same people (much like their counterparts) realize there is a lot at stake, and they are personally vested in the ultimate outcome 1 way or the other. Atheists, in particular, seem to have more concern about the existence of God than many Theists. Ironic.
I don't clutter my mind with words from false religions. Look, you either believe the Bible or not. If you don't, I have nothing else for you. I pray you will. If you get a chance, go see/rent the movie "God's not dead". It will be worth your while. God bless.
I don't know if the process the article used is 100% accurate, but I think it is pretty logical that the rise of the Internet is at least partially responsible for the decline in religion because it is opening up better access to information. It certainly isn't the only reason either, but the article also said as much,
There is a reason why countries try to stifle the flow of information and control the message to the masses.
There is a reason why countries try to stifle the flow of information and control the message to the masses.
So you've never read the books they're based on but you feel confident calling them false religions? Your 2,000 year old book is inerrant, non-negotiable singular truth, but everybody else's 2,000 year old books are fairy tales or worse. And you're sure that the followers of your book get to go to Heaven, but the followers of all the other books, no matter anything else about their lives, don't?
SB already answered your question, but let me take it a step further and answer your question with some scripture...
John 14:6 - "Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
There are two main interpretations of this verse, the first is that you must know Jesus (meaning be a Christian or believe in Jesus) in order to go to Heaven; the other "feel good" version is that you simply must live like Jesus lived which would explain what would happen to those other "good" people of different religions. I will not claim to know what will happen to everyone when they die, God is the ultimate Judge and nobody is appealing his decisions, they're final. If he deems someone worthy, that's all that matters. I do want to point out that there are numerous other verses in the Bible that support the first interpretation of the verse. Read John 8:24, Acts 4:12, and 1 Timothy 2:5.
I have pondered almost the exact same question many times and given it a lot of thought. The only difference is, in my question, I'm not so much concerned about the guy who practices a different religion, more than likely if someone practices any religion at all, they have heard of Christianity and they have made their choice and will suffer the consequences. I'm more concerned about the aboriginal tribe that lives deep inside a rain forest which hasn't heard the Gospel. Would God put someone on the earth, to live in a remote location, and not even have a chance to hear about Jesus and be damned to hell? The only thing I can do is trust that God is holy and just and whatever punishment or reward he decides will be fair. There are plenty of verses that seem to point that out in the Bible as well. Read John 9:41, John 15:22-24, Matthew 11:20-24, Hebrews 10:28-29, and 2 Peter 2:20-22.
I think what these threads over the last week have really pointed out is that people have a desire to understand, but they can't wrap their minds around the fact that there is no understanding. Does an ant understand how big the planet is? Surely not, but because they don't, does that somehow make it any less true? The Bible does answer a lot of the questions that you, I, and other people have, but it doesn't answer them all nor does it claim to. The Bible does not contain all of the knowledge in the world, the Bible only contains all of the knowledge that we need in this world. We will get the answers to all of those unanswered questions at a later time.
I respect the person who acknowledges they have doubts about their faith. It is an honest answer. We grow from our doubts. We explore because of our doubts.
I have little tolerance for the person who expresses an arrogance that they KNOW God will reject people who lead a good and holy life even if they are not Christian. You don't KNOW that. I don't KNOW that.
I line myself up with Pope Francis who says that an atheist can be a good person because he, too, was created in God's image.
As Christians we have to be more loving and more accepting and less judgmental.
End of my sermon.
I have little tolerance for the person who expresses an arrogance that they KNOW God will reject people who lead a good and holy life even if they are not Christian. You don't KNOW that. I don't KNOW that.
I line myself up with Pope Francis who says that an atheist can be a good person because he, too, was created in God's image.
As Christians we have to be more loving and more accepting and less judgmental.
End of my sermon.
Sending non-believers to a burning hell has always seemed like a bit of an overreaction to me.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Definitely a rational point, KG. One I've pondered. However, the Bible is clear that the only way to the Father is through faith in the works of the Son on the cross. You either believe that or not. That's the basis of Christianity.
With that said, I'm done with religious and OT posts unless they cover Vikings or The Walking Dead and the like.
This board becomes such a *ish show over the summer, which has apparently started earlier this year due to our craptastic baseball program (we all know how that's ending).
With that said, I'm done with religious and OT posts unless they cover Vikings or The Walking Dead and the like.
This board becomes such a *ish show over the summer, which has apparently started earlier this year due to our craptastic baseball program (we all know how that's ending).
After spending over what we humans call "40 years" on this Earth, there are two facts related to this post.
There is a God and it is the definition of God that is up for debate. Even atheists have to acknowledge this point/fact if you keep peeling back the layers, but that is another discussion.Evolution exists. Even the most religious have to acknowledge this point/fact because they, at one time or another, have caught the flu.
Jesus is THE most recognized misunderstood human to ever walk on this Earth that we exist on today. The subject that I dislike the most is, so many words have been written/said without his consent, i.e. the quotes you see posted on here or in the Bible, not said or written by him but his "disciples" long after he was gone, in some cases hundreds of years later. The subject that I love the most is, Jesus had a AWESOME monetary policy that SHOULD exist today.
People have made the assumption (the attached article) that religion is going away based on numbers, attendance or polls. I don't believe this because it is implying that all people were religious to begin with. IMO it is more based on culture than religion. The culture has changed to allow/expose non-religious people without persecution, etc... Try this a couple hundred years ago, yeah right!
In our past culture, US or other countries, humans looked to religion for a vast majority of their answers. We used "signs" as an indicator for action. This isn't fairy tale or fantasy, but an undeniable fact written in all religious/history books. Now back to my first point. There were people of religion and atheists during early times, they BOTH used these signs as indicators for their respective action, and for good reason because it usually was the difference between life and death. An atheist can/could only describe this action as a feeling, he or she doesn't have to think about it, they just do it based on their feelings, whereas a religious person says God made/told them do it. What do they have in common, they are BOTH innate, the only difference is like I said, the definition.
As humans we have "learned" a lot since Christ was born. We have learned the Earth is round, the Earth goes around the Sun, that electrical signals allow you to read what I typed, that all biological life on Earth literally comes from the death of life, the list goes on. The reason why religion attendance has/is going down is because humans don't look toward religion for answers as much, the culture has changed. Does this make people "less" religious? I don't think so, the ratio, I would bet is about the same. The only difference is today, since there are far more people, that means there are far more "non-religious" people and people that are religious but don't use religion for all their answers as well, i.e. don't think it is necessary to attend church.
So..... don't worry about the devil too much.
There is a God and it is the definition of God that is up for debate. Even atheists have to acknowledge this point/fact if you keep peeling back the layers, but that is another discussion.Evolution exists. Even the most religious have to acknowledge this point/fact because they, at one time or another, have caught the flu.
Jesus is THE most recognized misunderstood human to ever walk on this Earth that we exist on today. The subject that I dislike the most is, so many words have been written/said without his consent, i.e. the quotes you see posted on here or in the Bible, not said or written by him but his "disciples" long after he was gone, in some cases hundreds of years later. The subject that I love the most is, Jesus had a AWESOME monetary policy that SHOULD exist today.
People have made the assumption (the attached article) that religion is going away based on numbers, attendance or polls. I don't believe this because it is implying that all people were religious to begin with. IMO it is more based on culture than religion. The culture has changed to allow/expose non-religious people without persecution, etc... Try this a couple hundred years ago, yeah right!
In our past culture, US or other countries, humans looked to religion for a vast majority of their answers. We used "signs" as an indicator for action. This isn't fairy tale or fantasy, but an undeniable fact written in all religious/history books. Now back to my first point. There were people of religion and atheists during early times, they BOTH used these signs as indicators for their respective action, and for good reason because it usually was the difference between life and death. An atheist can/could only describe this action as a feeling, he or she doesn't have to think about it, they just do it based on their feelings, whereas a religious person says God made/told them do it. What do they have in common, they are BOTH innate, the only difference is like I said, the definition.
As humans we have "learned" a lot since Christ was born. We have learned the Earth is round, the Earth goes around the Sun, that electrical signals allow you to read what I typed, that all biological life on Earth literally comes from the death of life, the list goes on. The reason why religion attendance has/is going down is because humans don't look toward religion for answers as much, the culture has changed. Does this make people "less" religious? I don't think so, the ratio, I would bet is about the same. The only difference is today, since there are far more people, that means there are far more "non-religious" people and people that are religious but don't use religion for all their answers as well, i.e. don't think it is necessary to attend church.
So..... don't worry about the devil too much.
2 things...
1) Unless your definition of God ranges from bearded white guy in the sky all the way to multiverse phenomena, and everything in between, then there is no proof of a god (as any religion past or present claims).
2) No matter how you measure it, the influence of religion in society is declining and will continue to decline for the foreseeable future. I think religion is necessary for some in society, but it no longer controlling major national thought/policies is going to be a positive for all involved.
transference, I don't think you thought your #1 through very well (maybe you did) before you decided to post. Even using your own range/criteria (very wide range), it would easily be true, I wouldn't ever have to prove anything to anyone if that is the case. I just don't think you meant to say what you did, since I get the feeling you are not trying to agree with me, lol.
Your #2 basically says what I already said, with the exception of not considering culture so much as "religion", so yeah, I can agree with that.
Your #2 basically says what I already said, with the exception of not considering culture so much as "religion", so yeah, I can agree with that.
I was agreeing with both your points. The first one, I was just making sure that you are open to defining "god" as literally anything that started life as we know it. I personally wouldn't call the big bang "god", but if that is open under your definition, then I think that is correct.
I mean, that's pretty much my definition. I feel like the existence of a Creator (God, Spaghetti Monster avec Noodly Appendage, Iluvatar, call it whatever you want) is evident, so much so that I don't understand when people request proof of that existence. I'm proof, you're proof, everything is proof that we were created by something.
I think its equally evident that whatever God created us has no vested interest in our corporeal safety or our material prosperity. Not only is that truth born out 150,000 times daily with each human death, but in every instance of unjust suffering or pain. Everytime you see an animal eat another animal that didn't want to be eaten, thats proof that whatever created us all does not care about our Earthly well-being. Hell, most of the Gospel is Jesus telling us exactly that in different ways (My kingdom is not of this world). Which is what makes stuff like prosperity gospel so ridiculous and insulting. Its so obviously not true.
But that's as far as you can take it without venturing into the realm of conjecture. Any God that could have created me and also dark matter and the Crab Nebula and quantum physics and photosynthesis must be so unfathomable as to defy even one word of explanation. And, to me, that's all religion is; an imperfect attempt to define and understand the Divine. Which is fine, no harm in trying. Lots and lots of harm in declaring you know everything and telling everybody else they're going to hell for not agreeing with you. Even more in blowing up buildings and cutting people's heads off because they don't agree with you. But that's people for you and a lot of people suck, unfortunately.
That doesn't mean that I don't believe in an ultimately loving and good God. I absolutely do. I refuse to believe that the God who created us did so only to watch us suffer in pain and death and nothing more. I see the beauty in the world, I know that beauty is not necessary. Love is not necessary. Joy is not necessary. But we have all of these things. We have rainbows and roses. That's not proof of anything, I know. But for me its enough.
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