Perhaps the CEOs of our health insurance companies...

[UrHuckleberry]

Perhaps I'm just too close to it all, but that's not how it will play out. The transition will be far more complex than that and the federal government will not be able to manage everything, much less implement sophisticated cost containment strategies that due keep overall costs down.

Keep in mind that health plans run on an average of around 3-3.5% margin. So even if the middle men surrender that back to the market, a 3% reduction in premiums/costs/taxes doesn't do that much.

And on funding, all non-poors pay the same premiums for the most part. If you shift the funding model to taxes, now the people paying higher %s will bear a disproportionate share of the burden. And it will be politically difficult to raise taxes on the middle class, so a small percentage of us will be penalized even further. So it's not the clean shift you describe in your first paragraph.

I can agree with all of that. I know I made it simple, but do understand in practice it wouldn't be. Was more talking about the concept. And basically just saying that yes, our taxes would go up, but that other costs would go down. But definitely don't think anything would be clean about it. I don't live in a mental utopia where all we have to do is do this thing and everything is perfect, and I understand that there are some rather large pros and cons. I'm not even convinced "my way" is the better option. But when I see people make "simple" statements describing "my side" of the argument, I find it just as disingenuous as I think you think or thought I was.

 

[firegiver]

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When people talk about how the right is just dumb, this is what they are talking about. What is the point here? Murder is wrong obviously. But so is UHC denying cliams that prevent people from getting the healthcare they need and that ends their lives.

Is it ok to do what UHC has been doing? Answer that question first. To me: absolutely not. Is it ok to murder a CEO, i mean no. But you do have to ask yourselves, at what point is the profit over people model going to incite violence.

 

[CUTiger1977]

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[fatpiggy]

When people talk about how the right is just dumb, this is what they are talking about. What is the point here? Murder is wrong obviously. But so is UHC denying cliams that prevent people from getting the healthcare they need and that ends their lives.

Is it ok to do what UHC has been doing? Answer that question first. To me: absolutely not. Is it ok to murder a CEO, i mean no. But you do have to ask yourselves, at what point is the profit over people model going to incite violence.

Is it ok to do what UHC guy is doing? He is doing his job! You don’t get murdered for doing your job.

1) we have a justice system
2) profit is not bad

3) healthcare as a right is debatable.

You don’t like the way UHC does their job? Fine. Think healthcare is a right? You can make that argument.

But you can’t equate murder to the guy doing his job. Fight the system, not the person.

 

[firegiver]

Is it ok to do what UHC guy is doing? He is doing his job! You don’t get murdered for doing your job.

1) we have a justice system
2) profit is not bad

3) healthcare as a right is debatable.

You don’t like the way UHC does their job? Fine. Think healthcare is a right? You can make that argument.

But you can’t equate murder to the guy doing his job. Fight the system, not the person.

lol are you a student of history? When did for profit health care insurance companies arrive in America?
The Nuremberg defense is an interesting strategy. Have you studied ethics?
Privatizing everything and making a buck off of denying americans medical procedures that they need, is a great way to make our world worse.

 

[fatpiggy]

lol are you a student of history? When did for profit health care insurance companies arrive in America?
The Nuremberg defense is an interesting strategy. Have you studied ethics?
Privatizing everything and making a buck off of denying americans medical procedures that they need, is a great way to make our world worse.

We have a justice system.

 

[fatpiggy]

We have a justice system. I agree it’s not perfect, but it’s better than vigilante justice.

 

[firegiver]

We have a justice system.

What are you talking about? When unethical things are legal, whats a justice system going to do?

 

[fatpiggy]

What are you talking about? When unethical things are legal, whats a justice system going to do?

You work to fix it.

So you are advocating violence? That’s a hell of a position.

 

[other1]

You are probably correct. If i am being honest with myself i probably don't go to the doctor because i am fat and out of shape and am afraid of what he will tell me. lol.

Maybe it's better for him/her to tell you now instead of saying something when it's too late.

 

[firegiver]

You work to fix it.

So you are advocating violence? That’s a hell of a position.

I didn't advocate violence. You know that. I asked a question, you have no answer for so you manufactured a strawman. Carry on bad faith actor.
When corporations run the country, there is no fixing this. The supreme Court is overrun with justices who enabled this system. Regan republicans invented for profit health insurance. This is all by design.
You fix it.

 

[TigerGrowls]

 

[SconnyTiger25]

Sigh. The US is unhealthy due to lifestyle choices (and food supply, IMO). Those choices result in Americans being much more overweight, having more chronic conditions and yes, being much less healthy.

The lack of universal healthcare doesn't make you fat. Being fat does make you significantly more likely to have chronic health conditions and more susceptible to almost every other negative health outcome.

US obesity rate = 43%
EU obesity rate = 17%

Obesity by country

There's your answer as to why the US is less healthy. It has nothing to do with universal healthcare.

Yes, here is the root cause, BIG FOOD. Ultra processed, devoid of vitamins and minerals, food

Our food is garbage, which has created an obesity crisis in the USA...

I will not absolve the doctors, medical practioners, and insurance companies, because they are posting record profits off of the problems caused by our shit food. They have turned into drug dealers for BIG PHARMA, and the insurance companies as sitting by paying for overinflated drug prices in the US, but denying basic services for insured, meanwhile our insurance rates are the highest they have ever been.

I agree though, the root causes of this problem need to be where we start. Hoping RFK Jr. follows through on his promises to overhaul our food system.

I am looking forward to seeing a USA that looks like the people in the 70's and early 80's, extremely fit and not looking like puffer fish.

 

[fatpiggy]

I didn't advocate violence. You know that. I asked a question, you have no answer for so you manufactured a strawman. Carry on bad faith actor.
When corporations run the country, there is no fixing this. The supreme Court is overrun with justices who enabled this system. Regan republicans invented for profit health insurance. This is all by design.
You fix it.

So, are you saying Obamacare is broken?

 

[WapPride]

So, are you saying Obamacare is broken?

Obamacare is an imperfect system, but it's better than any alternative that's been proposed (none have been proposed by the GOP, despite having damn near 15 years to come up with one.)

 

[firegiver]

So, are you saying Obamacare is broken?

I'm saying that for profit healthcare insurance is designed to kill people for profit.

 

[TigerGrowls]

 

[tigerridge]

Some of the messages around this have been absolutely appalling. I work in this industry and have several colleagues that were friends with Brian. He's a husband and father. This is a horrible tragedy and devastating for many people. That should be everyone's first thought. Not whining about claims denials, which is a symptom of many other issues in US healthcare. Not some devious plot by a chief executive many rungs removed from the claims process.

How soon some forget that Barack Obama and congress passed that idiotic bull shit ACA, which caused loss of coverage for so many. They promised reduced prices and it has done nothing but skyrocket.

 

[tigerridge]

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exactly