What is your position on removing the names of John C Calhoun and Ben Tillman from the honors college and/or campus buildings? Please give your graduation year along with any response you may offer.
Question for Clemson alumni
- Thread starter Plyger
- Start date
Not sure where you'd stop with slave owners... Washington, Jefferson, everyone had slaves.
Tillman, for sure, seems like he was a bad guy and should not be celebrated.
Tillman, for sure, seems like he was a bad guy and should not be celebrated.
Tillman —> Old Main
Calhoun Honors —> TDP is a CFB Hiring Genius Honors College
In a lot of respects the name Clemson is more synonymous with the area than it is the man at this point. It’s the towns name.
edit to include...
BS ‘01
MS ‘02
PhD ‘14
Calhoun Honors —> TDP is a CFB Hiring Genius Honors College
In a lot of respects the name Clemson is more synonymous with the area than it is the man at this point. It’s the towns name.
edit to include...
BS ‘01
MS ‘02
PhD ‘14
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Agree with this take Tillman wasn't just a slave owner he wanted to remove blacks from planet earth. Strom Thurmand having a building named after him has always bothered me as his history is fairly recent.
I think Tillman should be Old Main. Wasn't called Tillman until 1948, I think, when the legislature got involved....which is exactly why it will be burdensome to remove the name.
I like Old Main. Has a nice ring to it.
Edit: 1996, 1999
I like Old Main. Has a nice ring to it.
Edit: 1996, 1999
As long as they dont tear down the Calhoun house renaming the honors school seems reasonable. The house is a unique part of campus and should be maintained.
I'll call Tillman Hall Tillman Hall regardless of what they stick in front of it so I'm not real worried about that one either.
I was 08.
I'll call Tillman Hall Tillman Hall regardless of what they stick in front of it so I'm not real worried about that one either.
I was 08.
If you change the names does it change the history? Its another touchy feely meaningless bull crap.
If the honors college name is changed, then how do you justify having that man’s house standing on the campus? Maybe the name should be changed but Then where does it stop? Next up, you’ll have to rename the entire university and town. Then do we start renaming things after Washington/Jefferson/Madison?
C/O 2017
C/O 2017
I can understand people's objections to the names, and I'm glad the decision is for much smarter people than me.
The SC Antiquities Law puts name changing in the hands of the state legislature.
My only question would be what are the criteria for renaming things?
As an example - Ben Tillman was a despicable man, but was 13 at the start of the Civil War, so he probably never owned slaves.
75 and 77.
The SC Antiquities Law puts name changing in the hands of the state legislature.
My only question would be what are the criteria for renaming things?
As an example - Ben Tillman was a despicable man, but was 13 at the start of the Civil War, so he probably never owned slaves.
75 and 77.
Clemson 2002. Just one alum's opinion.
There is no defense of naming Old Main after Ben Tillman. None. There wasn't a reason to do it then; there certainly isn't a reason to keep it today.
As to Calhoun, and I was a proud Clemson tour guide, I've recited nearly 200 times the relationship between Calhoun and Thomas Green Clemson. It's a fact of history. Clemson doesn't have to run from it or hide it; it's fact.
It's also not a requirement to name anything after Calhoun. He was a Yale graduate, as obviously there was no Clemson Agricultural College of South Carolina. It was a son-in-law, not a blood relative, who willed it to the state thirteen years after the death of Calhoun's daughter and T. G. Clemson's wife. I'm not aware descendants of Calhoun made a large donation, which is how some other honors colleges, departments, buildings, etc. are named.
If you read what Calhoun wrote and said in transcripts, contrast it with what I think most people would espouse as the values and culture of an honors program at a university, that leads you down the path to it's time to remove it. Clemson University Honors College sounds just fine to me.
There is no defense of naming Old Main after Ben Tillman. None. There wasn't a reason to do it then; there certainly isn't a reason to keep it today.
As to Calhoun, and I was a proud Clemson tour guide, I've recited nearly 200 times the relationship between Calhoun and Thomas Green Clemson. It's a fact of history. Clemson doesn't have to run from it or hide it; it's fact.
It's also not a requirement to name anything after Calhoun. He was a Yale graduate, as obviously there was no Clemson Agricultural College of South Carolina. It was a son-in-law, not a blood relative, who willed it to the state thirteen years after the death of Calhoun's daughter and T. G. Clemson's wife. I'm not aware descendants of Calhoun made a large donation, which is how some other honors colleges, departments, buildings, etc. are named.
If you read what Calhoun wrote and said in transcripts, contrast it with what I think most people would espouse as the values and culture of an honors program at a university, that leads you down the path to it's time to remove it. Clemson University Honors College sounds just fine to me.
I don’t care and think it’s probably the right move in this context. I imagine it would be uncomfortable in some aspects for me if I were a black student at Clemson to have the building that is synonymous with the university be named after someone as despicable as Tillman. Graduated in ‘15.
If you're going to remove the name, rename it after Harvey Gantt
Nuk never beat Scar. His opinion is irrelevant.
The street up to the front door of Tillman is Harvey Gantt Circle.
“There goes the neighborhood”
-Ben Tillman (probably)
This basically sums up my thoughts. Make the change for TIllman and Calhoun Honors College (and Calhoun Courts).
BA '10
The Calhoun Mansion has to stay. How else would you name it? Leave honors college as Clemson Honors college and drop Tillman to Old Main (cool name as far as I’m concerned). Name a building for Gantt.
None of this tarnishes any real history.
1993
None of this tarnishes any real history.
1993
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anon_yqoaxol227dby
Guest
To judge the past by today’s standards and what we deem is currently morally accepted is always complicated. I’ve never been a fan of naming buildings after people. But I sort of get it.
There is merit in recognizing historic achievements of an individual and placing these achievements in memoriam.
As time passes, however, organizations and institutions change and institutions may realize that its values no longer fit with the figures they once honored. In a situation such as these, it makes sense to rename the building after someone whose values more accurately align with those of the institution. We should also note that the names institutions place on buildings say much about the institutions themselves. Therefore, I’m strongly in favor of renaming Tillman Hall and Calhoun Honors College after someone whose values and accomplishments more appropriately reflect the mission statement and vision of the university.
My suggestion would be to name them after Frankie Felder or Margaret Marie Snider
-2010 Alumnus
There is merit in recognizing historic achievements of an individual and placing these achievements in memoriam.
As time passes, however, organizations and institutions change and institutions may realize that its values no longer fit with the figures they once honored. In a situation such as these, it makes sense to rename the building after someone whose values more accurately align with those of the institution. We should also note that the names institutions place on buildings say much about the institutions themselves. Therefore, I’m strongly in favor of renaming Tillman Hall and Calhoun Honors College after someone whose values and accomplishments more appropriately reflect the mission statement and vision of the university.
My suggestion would be to name them after Frankie Felder or Margaret Marie Snider
-2010 Alumnus
06
I think people are crazy today. Lincoln had extremely racist views, should his memorial in Washington DC be removed?
Should we take down the Washington monument?
-For clarity, remove the names of people from all of the buildings. This will only help Clemson today and in the future
I think people are crazy today. Lincoln had extremely racist views, should his memorial in Washington DC be removed?
Should we take down the Washington monument?
-For clarity, remove the names of people from all of the buildings. This will only help Clemson today and in the future
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anon_yqoaxol227dby
Guest
We need to stop with the “whataboutisms”
Clemson can’t do a damn thing about the Lincoln and Washington Monument in DC. This conversation is about a building on Clemson’s campus and about the name given to the honors college. Let’s focus on that instead of using “whataboutisms” to argue why Clemson can’t do something related to Clemson University
Do you think Lincoln’s memorial should be taken down? He was extremely racist
I like to be consistent
I'm completely on board to change it. But why would you not rename Clemson University? Very few people know that we have a "Calhoun Honors College".
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anon_yqoaxol227dby
Guest
Im not going to get this topic derailed into a debate about racial inclinations of former a former president and how one should view him in contemporary times. That’s for another time.
As for the OP’s question, yes the names should change, and I’ve given my reasons why. Whether a memorial of Abe exists in DC should play not part in a university decision about university matters
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anon_yqoaxol227dby
Guest
Practically speaking, i don’t even know how one goes about changing the name of a university that’s been in place since the late 1800s. I’m sure there’s legalities as well as stipulations in the original donation of the land. I don’t think that legally one could change it
Clemson ‘12 (BioSci)
Rename Tillman, for sure. Old Main is fine. Ben Tillman was a bastard. I’d fully support that name change.
I personally don’t care one way or another about the Calhoun Honors College. Applying today’s paradigms to generations old lives, is an orwellian enterprise in whitewashing. generally, I think name changes and statue/memorial removals are stupid and largely counterproductive flourishes of overwrought virtue signaling. In this case though, I lean more towards the “if it needlessly offends a large subset of people who have legitimate grievances with it, then it is holding the university back and needs to be changed” camp.
Rename Tillman, for sure. Old Main is fine. Ben Tillman was a bastard. I’d fully support that name change.
I personally don’t care one way or another about the Calhoun Honors College. Applying today’s paradigms to generations old lives, is an orwellian enterprise in whitewashing. generally, I think name changes and statue/memorial removals are stupid and largely counterproductive flourishes of overwrought virtue signaling. In this case though, I lean more towards the “if it needlessly offends a large subset of people who have legitimate grievances with it, then it is holding the university back and needs to be changed” camp.
Guess I don't understand why Calhoun offends people but Clemson doesn't.
Totally understand Tillman.
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anon_yqoaxol227dby
Guest
It certainly offends Deshaun and Nuk. And if it offends them, I’m sure it’s offended prior and current students of color. And that’s already reason enough to change it
Well I like to be consistent. I’m sure you will support me one day when we march to remove the Lincoln memorial
Why stop with the name?
I say just erase everything from history. We should start with Washington state and DC. I think we all need a clean start. E
I say just erase everything from history. We should start with Washington state and DC. I think we all need a clean start. E
Then bulldoze DC while your at it.
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anon_yqoaxol227dby
Guest
Im not sure how a washinton dc monument of Abraham Lincoln is any way dictates how a Clemson alum should feel about actively pushing for and supporting changes at Clemson University. But whatever helps rationalize your views of keeping things status quo is fine I guess
I said consistent. I love change. If we are changing names and taking down monuments I say do it all over
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anon_yqoaxol227dby
Guest
Since DW is my fav Tiger, if he thinks it needs to go, im in agreement. Class of '91.
