Maybe because as one of the great orators of all time, Calhoun argued vehemently to (and I'm dumbing this wayyyyyyyy down) suppress black folks.
TGC did not.
Question for Clemson alumni
- Thread starter Plyger
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Maybe because as one of the great orators of all time, Calhoun argued vehemently to (and I'm dumbing this wayyyyyyyy down) suppress black folks.
TGC did not.
Change the names. It’s got to be addressed sooner or later. I signed Nuk’s petition. 2006.
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“And that’s already reason enough to change it”
I’m good with changing the names myself. But this quote of yours is a very slippery slope. Because people are offended we should just change things. My question is, where does it end?
Meaning, who gets to decide if someone’s offended, that change has to be made. What if your name, or how you dress, or how you drive a car offends another. I get this is a racist deal but it will never end.
Guess we’ll end up having an “offensive judge” who gets to decide if someone has been truly offended.
Strom Thurmond PUBLICLY changed his stance and apologized for his racist past! I'm sure you probably didn't know that. Let me guess....under age 30?
Tillman Hall - Fvck it why not. I'm sick of hearing about it. Plus his family strong-armed Clemson into naming the damn building after him anyway back in the 40s. Based strictly on that I would rename it and be done with it. Call it Old Main again. As another option I like Ben Skardon Hall personally but RC Edwards Hall is another good (maybe better) choice. I think Skardon needs something named after him but I don't know that Tillman is the right choice. Skardon may be a better fit for something that lines up with Clemson's military history.
Calhoun College - honestly could not care less what they call it but I'd name it after whoever started it in the administration, or the University president at the time (which would be RC Edwards). Or just call it Clemson University Honors College or some damn thing.
96 and 2000 - Industrial Engineering
Calhoun College - honestly could not care less what they call it but I'd name it after whoever started it in the administration, or the University president at the time (which would be RC Edwards). Or just call it Clemson University Honors College or some damn thing.
96 and 2000 - Industrial Engineering
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I agree, but maybe don’t name it after a person. Some controversy will pop up at some point in the future.
I don't often rebut comments but I'd like to make a point about the "being consistent" argument. It's not about you as a person but your argument.
Scenario: suppose you have a neighbor and an adult son (I have two young sons, so I'll pick on their gender). You have $1000 cash in your wallet from selling a piece of Clemson sports memorabilia. If the neighbor stole that $1000, how many posters would report them to the police? I bet a fair many. Now, what if your adult son stole the $1000? I'm sure there are exceptions, but I am willing to bet a good many posters would NOT report him to the police.
But they both stole $1000 from you - where is the CONSISTENCY?!?!?!
It's an absurd example because humans, when one develops maturity, exercise discretion. The context matters. So being consistent for consistency-sake is not a persuasive argument. Be consistent because you live by a set of principles, values and norms, but not that you won't exercise discretion/judgement/choice when faced with new or unusual context.
Tillman has no historical reference to the building. Change it back to its original name. Tillman was a terrible man and nothing about his history should be celebrated. Clemson Main Building is the historical name. Change it back to that.
Calhoun is a tough one. I appreciate the historical aspect and have pride in knowing the history behind Clemson’s land. If we are to keep the name they need to tie in some pro African American aspects into it. Plenty of blacks died as slaves on Clemson’s grounds. Give them a proper memorial. Bring attention to all the history.
Calhoun is a tough one. I appreciate the historical aspect and have pride in knowing the history behind Clemson’s land. If we are to keep the name they need to tie in some pro African American aspects into it. Plenty of blacks died as slaves on Clemson’s grounds. Give them a proper memorial. Bring attention to all the history.
I'm a fourth generation Clemson graduate ('24, '50. '74, '02) and my sister graduated in '07 and '09. The current student population is far more diverse than the population that I arrived to in '97. I'll admit that I think Clemson has drifted away from the purpose for which it was founded. I believe that Clemson should educate the best and brightest young people of South Carolina before serving as a less expensive option for young people from the northeastern United States. Clemson University was founded to support southern agriculture. Slavery, while ugly in the light of 2020, was a huge part of southern agriculture at the time Clemson was founded, and almost any influential South Carolinian had some tie to slavery.
Attending Clemson University is a choice and a privilege. I don't know of anyone forced or bound by law to attend Clemson University. There are some very ugly parts of this country's history, as there are with almost any country or entity. Clemson University's history is uglier than most. That ugliness can and should be acknowledged and even condemned, but it cannot be erased. In spite of that ugly history, Clemson University has done a lot of great things, and those things should be celebrated.
My grandfather, who was far from racist, spent a lot of time and energy fighting to keep the confederate flag on the state house. He was very proud of his southern heritage, and wrote a book about his family members who had fought in the Civil War. We now know that embracing that flag kept this state from moving forward economically and socially for many years. In the light of 2020, removing it was probably the right thing to do.
I don't know what changing these names would do. Each minority that has attended Clemson chose to do so. I am sure each of them could have chosen a place with a more minority friendly history. If DW4 and Nuk were so hurt, where was the outrage when they were students? I'm not dismissing their current feelings, and I certainly appreciate their contributions to Clemson (and my happiness). However, if changing the names moves Clemson forward, so be it.
Attending Clemson University is a choice and a privilege. I don't know of anyone forced or bound by law to attend Clemson University. There are some very ugly parts of this country's history, as there are with almost any country or entity. Clemson University's history is uglier than most. That ugliness can and should be acknowledged and even condemned, but it cannot be erased. In spite of that ugly history, Clemson University has done a lot of great things, and those things should be celebrated.
My grandfather, who was far from racist, spent a lot of time and energy fighting to keep the confederate flag on the state house. He was very proud of his southern heritage, and wrote a book about his family members who had fought in the Civil War. We now know that embracing that flag kept this state from moving forward economically and socially for many years. In the light of 2020, removing it was probably the right thing to do.
I don't know what changing these names would do. Each minority that has attended Clemson chose to do so. I am sure each of them could have chosen a place with a more minority friendly history. If DW4 and Nuk were so hurt, where was the outrage when they were students? I'm not dismissing their current feelings, and I certainly appreciate their contributions to Clemson (and my happiness). However, if changing the names moves Clemson forward, so be it.
That is a fair point on using discretion but I think the situations in your example are different
Just take them down. Especially Tillman. I love my school and this will not change a thing. 04
Renaming Tillman is a no brainer, as many have said its not even the original name.
If having the Calhoun Honors College being renamed helps minorities feel more comfortable on campus, I think we as white people can probably live with that as we've been oppressing their ancestors for the last 400 years. It's a minor step to lift up minorities and help them feel that they are on equal footing as they should be in the Clemson Family.
Class of 2002 and 2006.
If having the Calhoun Honors College being renamed helps minorities feel more comfortable on campus, I think we as white people can probably live with that as we've been oppressing their ancestors for the last 400 years. It's a minor step to lift up minorities and help them feel that they are on equal footing as they should be in the Clemson Family.
Class of 2002 and 2006.
The Honors College was created in 1962 and renamed as the Calhoun Honors College in 1981. The Honors College needs to drop the Calhoun name.
With Tillman Hall, it was Old Main for a much longer period of time until it was renamed Tillman Hall in the mid 1940s (1946?). Old Man was built in 1893. Time to return to the original name.
2001.
With Tillman Hall, it was Old Main for a much longer period of time until it was renamed Tillman Hall in the mid 1940s (1946?). Old Man was built in 1893. Time to return to the original name.
2001.
I'm afraid we are on the wrong side of history keeping those names. And, like it or not, naming a building for someone honors them and naming a college for someone honors them. Neither of these men deserve to be honored. Tillman was an ignorant thug and Calhoun's treasonous view of our country led to the civil war. Old Main and Ben Skardon Honors College suits me.
BA Econ 1968
BA Econ 1968
From everything I’ve read and heard, Tillman was a POS. I’d definitely be down with removing his name and changing back to old main or honoring one of the hundreds of other people who have done massive amounts of good for Clemson and the community.
2007
2007
Ferguson Flusher Dining Hall would be my vote.
That last bit I can get behind.
I think RC Edwards would be fine. But after my post I thought of another issue - Clemson already HAS an Edwards Hall - the nursing building. Two Edwards' Halls would be confusing as hell.
Just call the Honors College the Honors College. Or what I used to call it:
Cowhoun College.
(I thought it was hilarious)
They weren't offended enough back then to not come to school here. I get offended that people come into lots of money and think their opinion suddenly matters but I'm not going to lose sleep over it. History was history, learn from it and try not to repeat it but don't go dragging it around like an anchor. There are more important things to be concerned about than the name on a building. Every civilization and monument on Earth was built on the backs of slave labor and still is today so you can't change them all. Focus less on divisive things and more on ways to come together and we'll all be better off.
91 I really don’t care if they change the names BUT if you let these names change then people are going to find something else to be offensive...... I’m sure Memorial stadium will be on the hit list soon
Hang on. We should all celebrate the fact that Clemson exists and, almost as much, the chicken curse he imposed on the chickens.
Other than that, I'm with you.
I was thinking there was a Tillman statue on campus but it was my lack of coffee interfering with my brain.
Calhoun Courts is probably another target, since it is where a lot of the players live on campus - or was when my decrepit old ass was there.
The way I would do this is, as a University, start referring to Tillman as "The Main Building"
"Old Main"
"The big-ass building with the clock tower"
And kind of phase it out. When asked, say that we cannot actually rename it without the state legislature's approval, but "we do all we can to minimize it".
I'm OK with Old Main.. Just tired of the noise.
Less so with John C Calhoun. Just owning slaves is not reason enough... most people in the South did then...or would have if they had the money to buy them. Taking off the John C and just calling it the Calhoun Honors Program is not too bad, but if you do that, I guarantee the radicals would be right back wanting that changed, too.
Less so with John C Calhoun. Just owning slaves is not reason enough... most people in the South did then...or would have if they had the money to buy them. Taking off the John C and just calling it the Calhoun Honors Program is not too bad, but if you do that, I guarantee the radicals would be right back wanting that changed, too.
I REALLY want to hear Rece Davis refer say "Here's an overhead shot of Clemson, the Big Ass Building with the Clock Tower is all lit up!" on ESPN just once.
2001 2nd generation graduate here.
Changing Tillman Hall to Old Main is a no brainer.
Changing Calhoun Honors College isn’t as cut and dried a decision but naming it after Dr. Edwards is honestly a truer alignment with who has meant the most to Clemson...the town and the university. Not to mention, Calhoun was an unapologetic slavery proponent.
I found an interesting article on the CU website about the history of slavery with the Calhoun family. As you’d expect, it paints too rosy of a picture of slave life under Calhoun and Pickens. I’d like to see a truer representation.
One particularly interesting note: TGC hired former Calhoun slaves when his wife inherited the estate in 1866. Some of those former slaves’ families are still in the area today, including the descendants of Bill Greenlee.
https://www.clemson.edu/about/history/properties/fort-hill/african-americans.html
Changing Tillman Hall to Old Main is a no brainer.
Changing Calhoun Honors College isn’t as cut and dried a decision but naming it after Dr. Edwards is honestly a truer alignment with who has meant the most to Clemson...the town and the university. Not to mention, Calhoun was an unapologetic slavery proponent.
I found an interesting article on the CU website about the history of slavery with the Calhoun family. As you’d expect, it paints too rosy of a picture of slave life under Calhoun and Pickens. I’d like to see a truer representation.
One particularly interesting note: TGC hired former Calhoun slaves when his wife inherited the estate in 1866. Some of those former slaves’ families are still in the area today, including the descendants of Bill Greenlee.
https://www.clemson.edu/about/history/properties/fort-hill/african-americans.html
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