So now they want to change the National Anthem?

[Daytontiger]

So you have no problem with these videos? I would assume you don't but your continued backing of the liberal Democratic party says you do.

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Totally related to this discussion.

So if I then generalize that because those cops in Wilmington were talking about killing n****rs on tape released last night, that means all white cops are white supremacist racists? This is a real stupid argument.

 

[Daytontiger]

The funny thing is I've received so much advice over my lifetime on how to handle exactly what white folks are going thru right now. How to feel when I'm being unfairly profiled or grouped or targeted. And they are right. White folks are in the cross hairs largely for stuff they individually didn't do. Stuff that people who look like them did. Stuff they've avoided all their life. Sounds like the story of my life. That great advice I used to receive on how to cope seemed so simple. Yet they won't do it. I guess when it's "your" country it's different.

I have some advice. Listen to each thing on the table. Reject the stupid stuff. Support the good ideas. Example. I support removing Tillman. I reject cancelling people who were simply slave owners. Now if they were vocal like Calhoun and said some not so nice things then the receipts will be read and handled. I will defend Thomas Green. I don't like changing the anthem. I'll call that a stupid idea. As someone stated, we already reject the verse that says the horrible thing so we've literally self corrected by not using the writers words he intended. It's not that hard. That's how you handle the slippery slope. Don't run down the slope. One step at a time. Just consider this approach. It's helped me a little. You're welcome everyone.

I hear ya, and agree with most of it. But I don't feel "white people" are being unfairly targeted. Casual racism, white supremacy, and Confederate icons are certainly under assault and finally being dismantled after being tolerated for many years. Sure, some people are taking it a bit beyond what I would do. But I am white and in no way do I feel targeted. If you (not you specifically, but another person reading this) feel targeted, I would argue that you should do some introspection and think about why. That's all.

 

[Frog209]

You guys are like the total SWEET SPOT for Fox News and right wing propaganda. The American way of life is CONSTANTLY UNDER ATTACK. And you've got to be always vigilant against those evil left-wingers. They can't wait to have total government takeover of all the private companies.

LOL, as said previously.

Enjoy your freakout

So phucking dumb, holy $hit it’s unreal that people like you exist. People like you are actually worse than the troglodytes in the streets. If you can’t see that the American way of life is under attack, then there is no helping you.

 

[ChicagoTiger85]

These are people with too much time on their hands. Nobody who matters is actually upset with Francis Scott Key, although some crazy people toppled his statue in San Fran.

 

[TigerLion06]

I hear ya, and agree with most of it. But I don't feel "white people" are being unfairly targeted. Casual racism, white supremacy, and Confederate icons are certainly under assault and finally being dismantled after being tolerated for many years. Sure, some people are taking it a bit beyond what I would do. But I am white and in no way do I feel targeted. If you (not you specifically, but another person reading this) feel targeted, I would argue that you should do some introspection and think about why. That's all.

I definitely hear you. But think about this. They "feel" targeted and I understand why. Not saying I totally agree. Many gave me advice because I "felt" targeted but they didn't believe I actually was targeted. So in that case they can take their own advice on how to deal with it when you "feel" targeted. Follow me?

 

[ChicagoTiger85]

No.

There's nothing wrong with our great national anthem. And there's nothing wrong with our great American flag.

If these cancel culture son of a bitches don't like it, fine. They are free to move to a different country.

This shit is getting beyond ridiculous. Good grief.

Sounding a lot like a well-known college football coach around these parts.

 

[Cocks are Number 1]

You guys are like the total SWEET SPOT for Fox News and right wing propaganda. The American way of life is CONSTANTLY UNDER ATTACK. And you've got to be always vigilant against those evil left-wingers. They can't wait to have total government takeover of all the private companies.

LOL, as said previously.

Enjoy your freakout

Left wing folks are one of the following:

- catered to spoiled kids who grew up not learning how to earn anything

or

- lazy folks who’s blood boils when the see someone with a life they wish they could’ve earned, but refused to put in the work for

 

[Frog209]

I hear ya, and agree with most of it. But I don't feel "white people" are being unfairly targeted. Casual racism, white supremacy, and Confederate icons are certainly under assault and finally being dismantled after being tolerated for many years. Sure, some people are taking it a bit beyond what I would do. But I am white and in no way do I feel targeted. If you (not you specifically, but another person reading this) feel targeted, I would argue that you should do some introspection and think about why. That's all.

I must have missed the part where are the people getting fired for saying all lives matter, refusing to support BLM because of Marxism, not racism, and the poor stepmom of the Atlanta cop getting fired, were waving Confederate flags and outed as white supremacist. I must have missed the part where all the white business owners inside of CHOP were racist and deserve to lose their livelihoods. I must have missed where the abolitionist and Veterans monuments and statues around the country being torn down and vandalized were somehow racist. I could give you a million examples of non racist white people under attack right now, but you’d still be too damn stupid to notice.

 

[TigerLion06]

No.

There's nothing wrong with our great national anthem. And there's nothing wrong with our great American flag.

If these cancel culture son of a bitches don't like it, fine. They are free to move to a different country.

This shit is getting beyond ridiculous. Good grief.

But why does it have to be go to a different country? Just say no. No. No we're not doing that. Sorry. We won't be doing that.

When Trump said all the things that were wrong with America no one said maybe he should try living in another country. Or get out and go where your ancestors came from. The next presidential candidate and the next and the next will tell us how horrible the country is and how they can fix it. All the amendments made to the constitution, imagine if with each one they said just go to another country and live. I agree with your point about the anthem but just because people want to change something about the country doesn't mean they should leave. Plenty of proposed changes to our country get rejected daily during the legislative process without people being told why don't you just leave.

 

[Cocks are Number 1]

No.

There's nothing wrong with our great national anthem. And there's nothing wrong with our great American flag.

If these cancel culture son of a bitches don't like it, fine. They are free to move to a different country.

This shit is getting beyond ridiculous. Good grief.

I’m more than willing to now pay double for a membership to this extraordinary Clemson site.

 

[scartiger]

Totally related to this discussion.

So if I then generalize that because those cops in Wilmington were talking about killing n****rs on tape released last night, that means all white cops are white supremacist racists? This is a real stupid argument.

Yes it is relevant to this conversation. It's not about a race. It's about our Freedom can't believe you can't see that. Yes some of those are just looters. But you have to look at the bigger picture and their agenda.

 

[ChicagoTiger85]

So phucking dumb, holy $hit it’s unreal that people like you exist. People like you are actually worse than the troglodytes in the streets. If you can’t see that the American way of life is under attack, then there is no helping you.

You're generally an a-hole, but I'll back you up somewhat. This is exactly what people like @Daytontiger are doing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte...t=The motte-and-bailey fallacy,(the "bailey").
The motte-and-bailey fallacy (named after the motte-and-bailey castle) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy where an arguer conflates two positions with similar properties, one modest and easy to defend (the "motte") and one much more controversial (the "bailey").[1] The arguer advances the controversial position, but when challenged, they insist that they are only advancing the more modest position.[2][3] Upon retreating to the motte, the arguer can claim that the bailey hasn't been refuted (because the critic refused to attack the motte)[4] or that the critic is unreasonable (by equating an attack on the bailey with an attack on the motte)

They also believe in the "law of merited impossibility," which can be summed up like this, "there's no chance that this policy I like will cause any of the bad consequences you're afraid of, but when it does cause those consequences, you bigots will deserve it."

 

[bcs summa]

Well as I understand it via the new college textbook "White Fragility" If you are white and don't admit you are racist then you are a racist. If you do admit you are racist then you are a racist.

 

[johnhugh]

The party of outrage strikes again. Their way of life is under attack, again. The government is coming for their freedoms, again. No wonder conservatives don't age well, they're mad all the damn time

 

[Cocks are Number 1]

But why does it have to be go to a different country? Just say no. No. No we're not doing that. Sorry. We won't be doing that.

When Trump said all the things that were wrong with America no one said maybe he should try living in another country. Or get out and go where your ancestors came from. The next presidential candidate and the next and the next will tell us how horrible the country is and how they can fix it. All the amendments made to the constitution, imagine if with each one they said just go to another country and live. I agree with your point about the anthem but just because people want to change something about the country doesn't mean they should leave. Plenty of proposed changes to our country get rejected daily during the legislative process without people being told why don't you just leave.

Agree, and good post... but the inmates are taking over the prison at this point... at least it seems that way. The media is almost in unison with them, and that’s a huge part of the problem.

Defund the media.

 

[Cocks are Number 1]

The party of outrage strikes again. Their way of life is under attack, again. The government is coming for their freedoms, again. No wonder conservatives don't age well, they're mad all the damn time

No, not mad at all... just tired from working so hard to earn success.

Not everyone gets a free ride, like you.

 

[CUFever91]

Could we change the national anthem just because it sucks? America the Beautiful and God bless America are both superior songs.

This.

My mother was a big music person (played violin in the symphony). She always said we should change the national anthem to one of those 2. Not because of any social reasons - but because they are better. Star Spangled Banner's music was from a men's song in 1700's. SSB did not become our national anthem until 1931. My mother always said the range of the notes are way too much for the average Joe to be able to sing. Those other 2 are more authentic as well as easier to sing.

 

[ChicagoTiger85]

But why does it have to be go to a different country? Just say no. No. No we're not doing that. Sorry. We won't be doing that.

When Trump said all the things that were wrong with America no one said maybe he should try living in another country. Or get out and go where your ancestors came from. The next presidential candidate and the next and the next will tell us how horrible the country is and how they can fix it. All the amendments made to the constitution, imagine if with each one they said just go to another country and live. I agree with your point about the anthem but just because people want to change something about the country doesn't mean they should leave. Plenty of proposed changes to our country get rejected daily during the legislative process without people being told why don't you just leave.

This is a good post. You point out the important difference between being a reformer who believes we're not living up to our ideals, which are still attainable; and a revolutionary, who thinks the whole thing is rotten and should be gotten rid of. Radicals look at the the institutions and processes we have as being corrupt, and inadequate for the task of whatever it is they want to do.

I think sometimes the reason people react to people wanting radical changes with "just leave if you dislike it here so much," it's because they perceive radicalism as being anti-American because it really is against the American system of government and way of doing things.

 

[Daytontiger]

Doing this how? I'm genuinely interested.

Because my original point was just there is no widespread mainstream Marxist movement that amounts to anything. Anything after that is just quibbling.

You're generally an a-hole, but I'll back you up somewhat. This is exactly what people like @Daytontiger are doing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy#:~:text=The motte-and-bailey fallacy,(the "bailey").
The motte-and-bailey fallacy (named after the motte-and-bailey castle) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy where an arguer conflates two positions with similar properties, one modest and easy to defend (the "motte") and one much more controversial (the "bailey").[1] The arguer advances the controversial position, but when challenged, they insist that they are only advancing the more modest position.[2][3] Upon retreating to the motte, the arguer can claim that the bailey hasn't been refuted (because the critic refused to attack the motte)[4] or that the critic is unreasonable (by equating an attack on the bailey with an attack on the motte)

They also believe in the "law of merited impossibility," which can be summed up like this, "there's no chance that this policy I like will cause any of the bad consequences you're afraid of, but when it does cause those consequences, you bigots will deserve it."

 

[johnhugh]

No, not mad at all... just tired from working so hard to earn success.

Not everyone gets a free ride, like you.

LOL ok pal

 

[SimpsonvilleTiger]

Not because of anything in it, but evidently Francis Scott Key owned slaves and made at least one bad statement. I don't really know anything about him. Don't know if he was a murderer like Ben Tillman .


https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment...ner-with-a-new-national-anthem-023741108.html

In an increasingly antiracist era when problematic iconography — ranging from Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben to even the Dukes of Hazzard General Lee car and country band Lady Antebellum’s name — is being reassessed, revised or retired, America’s national anthem, “The Star-Spangled Banner,” seems to be striking a wrong note.

Last week, protesters in San Francisco toppled a statue of the song’s composer, Francis Scott Key, a known slaveholder who once said that African-Americans were “a distinct and inferior race of people, which all experience proves to be the greatest evil that afflicts a community.”

“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”

 

[ChicagoTiger85]

Doing this how? I'm genuinely interested.

Because my original point was just there is no widespread mainstream Marxist movement that amounts to anything. Anything after that is just quibbling.

I'd say there is, based on the support for Bernie Sanders and the rhetoric of some of the social movements supported by the left. Take a look at some of the language that's being pushed even at large newspapers like the NYT. Check out some of the Pulitzer Prize winners. Even if that kind of thing hasn't completely taken over the left, and even if there are still many liberals left, it's at least become prominent in our political discourse. It's not just a college radical thing- those people have graduated and are either involved in elite culture or influencing it. You'd have been right 10 years ago when the Occupy people were way out of the mainstream, but they've been given a platform now.

So maybe you're more of a liberal than you are part of the illiberal left. Maybe you're not excusing the excesses of the left. But in your posts above, you say something like this, "there is no threat to the American way of life from the left. It's just about trying to make things more equal [motte and bailey]. Anyway, if you feel threatened, then you deserve to feel threatened [law of merited impossibility]." I happen to agree with you that the attempts to get rid of Francis Scott Key's anthem, George Washington, etc., won't be successful. These are mostly fringe-y types pushing that stuff. But if liberals like yourself don't push back a little bit on these folks- who really do exist- we could both end up wrong.

 

[Chefkdh]

But why does it have to be go to a different country? Just say no. No. No we're not doing that. Sorry. We won't be doing that.

When Trump said all the things that were wrong with America no one said maybe he should try living in another country. Or get out and go where your ancestors came from. The next presidential candidate and the next and the next will tell us how horrible the country is and how they can fix it. All the amendments made to the constitution, imagine if with each one they said just go to another country and live. I agree with your point about the anthem but just because people want to change something about the country doesn't mean they should leave. Plenty of proposed changes to our country get rejected daily during the legislative process without people being told why don't you just leave.

@TigerLion06 you might be my new favorite poster. Beer on me anytime

 

[other1]

"They" ought to have a real field day with Mt. Rushmore.

 

[Frog209]

But why does it have to be go to a different country? Just say no. No. No we're not doing that. Sorry. We won't be doing that.

When Trump said all the things that were wrong with America no one said maybe he should try living in another country. Or get out and go where your ancestors came from. The next presidential candidate and the next and the next will tell us how horrible the country is and how they can fix it. All the amendments made to the constitution, imagine if with each one they said just go to another country and live. I agree with your point about the anthem but just because people want to change something about the country doesn't mean they should leave. Plenty of proposed changes to our country get rejected daily during the legislative process without people being told why don't you just leave.

This is a good post and I agree that this is the way it SHOULD be. Today’s media and the direction the current Democratic Party is trending doesn’t allow these things to be feasible. The things that you are saying should be saying “No” to, are becoming more and more mainstream on the left, and will eventually become “yes”.

good post though, and I agree with the premise.

 

[CUFever91]

"They" ought to have a real field day with Mt. Rushmore.

I've always wondered about Stone Mountain, GA. That'll take a little work.....

Has anyone made any serious proposals to erase it?
Do they still do the laser show there?
We used to go when we visited family in ATL.

The same guy that carved Stone Mountain is the same guy that did Rushmore. Stone Mountain is larger.. fwiw

 

[Daytontiger]

I'd say there is, based on the support for Bernie Sanders and the rhetoric of some of the social movements supported by the left. Take a look at some of the language that's being pushed even at large newspapers like the NYT. Check out some of the Pulitzer Prize winners. Even if that kind of thing hasn't completely taken over the left, and even if there are still many liberals left, it's at least become prominent in our political discourse. It's not just a college radical thing- those people have graduated and are either involved in elite culture or influencing it. You'd have been right 10 years ago when the Occupy people were way out of the mainstream, but they've been given a platform now.

So maybe you're more of a liberal than you are part of the illiberal left. Maybe you're not excusing the excesses of the left. But in your posts above, you say something like this, "there is no threat to the American way of life from the left. It's just about trying to make things more equal [motte and bailey]. Anyway, if you feel threatened, then you deserve to feel threatened [law of merited impossibility]." I happen to agree with you that the attempts to get rid of Francis Scott Key's anthem, George Washington, etc., won't be successful. These are mostly fringe-y types pushing that stuff. But if liberals like yourself don't push back a little bit on these folks- who really do exist- we could both end up wrong.

Fair, thanks for replying.

My main issue would be that something like nationalized health care or increased governmental regulation on business (things like mandatory minimum wage, mandated national leave policy, etc.) do NOT constitute an assault on the American Way of Life, and is in no way anything anywhere near what I would consider European style left wing Socialism or even Communism. Perhaps that's the disconnect.

Anyway, I always appreciate your fair and honest approach to debate here, so thanks for that.

 

[24TIGER]

No.

There's nothing wrong with our great national anthem. And there's nothing wrong with our great American flag.

If these cancel culture son of a bitches don't like it, fine. They are free to move to a different country.

This shit is getting beyond ridiculous. Good grief.

Yep.

 

[jimbob1019]

The problem with leftists is that they can’t see the forest for the trees...
When we say, “if you don’t like it here, then leave”...it’s bc the majority of us realize how blessed we are to live here. Is this country perfect? No...it never will be, but while most of the world worries about where their clean drinking water is gonna come from, most of us are sitting here complaining about our dish, cable, & WiFi bills...

Perspective.

 

[jimbob1019]

And since everyone wants to talk about slavery again, I’ve got a question...what is black people’s take on black slave owners? I only ever hear about the white slave owners & how we should pay reparations for our ancestors atrocities yet I never hear a word regarding the black slave owners in the south? Just wondering

 

[BryanSimpsonClemson]

No.

There's nothing wrong with our great national anthem. And there's nothing wrong with our great American flag.

If these cancel culture son of a bitches don't like it, fine. They are free to move to a different country.

This shit is getting beyond ridiculous. Good grief.

My post had nothing to do with cancel culture or any social connotations, I just don’t think the song is great. Changing the national anthem is not unprecedented, I think there’s been 4 anthems in the history of the country. The current one has been the anthem less than a century.

 

[TigerFlow]

I'd say there is, based on the support for Bernie Sanders and the rhetoric of some of the social movements supported by the left. Take a look at some of the language that's being pushed even at large newspapers like the NYT. Check out some of the Pulitzer Prize winners. Even if that kind of thing hasn't completely taken over the left, and even if there are still many liberals left, it's at least become prominent in our political discourse. It's not just a college radical thing- those people have graduated and are either involved in elite culture or influencing it. You'd have been right 10 years ago when the Occupy people were way out of the mainstream, but they've been given a platform now.

So maybe you're more of a liberal than you are part of the illiberal left. Maybe you're not excusing the excesses of the left. But in your posts above, you say something like this, "there is no threat to the American way of life from the left. It's just about trying to make things more equal [motte and bailey]. Anyway, if you feel threatened, then you deserve to feel threatened [law of merited impossibility]." I happen to agree with you that the attempts to get rid of Francis Scott Key's anthem, George Washington, etc., won't be successful. These are mostly fringe-y types pushing that stuff. But if liberals like yourself don't push back a little bit on these folks- who really do exist- we could both end up wrong.

Fair, thanks for replying.

My main issue would be that something like nationalized health care or increased governmental regulation on business (things like mandatory minimum wage, mandated national leave policy, etc.) do NOT constitute an assault on the American Way of Life, and is in no way anything anywhere near what I would consider European style left wing Socialism or even Communism. Perhaps that's the disconnect.

Anyway, I always appreciate your fair and honest approach to debate here, so thanks for that.

The left is further left, just as the right is further right. But, no one(on this board) seems to recognize that and act as if it’s only the left that has moved while the right has stood still. It’s all a balance and is where we are right now on the pendulum swing.

 

[tallulahtiger30319]

In what ways are u discriminated against?

I’m handicapped.

 

[Tigerbomb]

It's not going to stop.

It will stop when policy makers and patriots stand up to them and tell them to pound sand.

 

[Cavitybacks]

Love God Bless America.

But that would likely upset people even more because it says God.

 

[CUTiger1977]

Democratic illegal voters to be deported - American way of life is winning.

 

[DW4_2016]

We have to remember the bad history so we don’t repeat that history and improve upon it. Strive to make life better for our kids and future generation, but we can’t erase events from the history books.

I agree. the only way we will know slavery rape and murder is wrong is to keep looking at the statues of those that have committed the atrocities.

 

[Lower Deck Tiger]

If racism was rampant in America, why do we have millions of people from all over the world wanting to move here. No, this is a bunch of Bernie Sanders followers - now Biden followers creating chaos. Unreal. Police reform - Yes! Defunding police and erasing history by destroying things - no!

 

[Cavitybacks]

I agree. the only way we will know slavery rape and murder is wrong is to keep looking at the statues of those that have committed the atrocities.

Gonna be a crazy day when we destroy the Washington Monument, the Lincoln Memorial, and the Jefferson Memorial.

Hopefully they'll replace the Jefferson Memorial with Trump. Washington monument with Obama.

Outside of Obama, Trump is likely the least racist president in our country's history.

 

[DW4_2016]

Democratic illegal voters to be deported - American way of life is winning.

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Good to see we have some real native Americans on the board.