they are not. maybe a world religion class would help you out?
also, how does this address the greeks? did they just have it all wrong and now you guys have it all figured out?
Spiritual Battle
- Thread starter TigerGrowls
- Start date
also, how does this address the greeks? did they just have it all wrong and now you guys have it all figured out?
You don't think God made men.
This is where I have the issue. Alot of non-believers, including yourself obviously, don't mine saying "Don't push that on me" only to make definite statements.
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anon_5e8aassgcbjz1
Guest
Can't say I've heard of it my friend. Something like aliens are responsible for putting humans on earth?
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anon_5e8aassgcbjz1
Guest
Yes, I put it forward as a claim. It requires evidence and argument. I think those two things are much more in favor of mine than yours, and I'll leave it there for now
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anon_5e8aassgcbjz1
Guest
You didn't finish reading the rest of my sentence. I didn't claim they're in agreement about everything. Of course they aren't. I go on to highlight two key points on which they differ. Toss out the mindless rabble, and the religious authorities of the Jews, Christians, and Muslims will agree that they're ultimately praying to the god of Abraham in some shape or fashion.
Also, I'm an atheist. I've pointed out as well that no one believes in Ra anymore.
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anon_5e8aassgcbjz1
Guest
"Or were you witnesses when death approached Jacob, when he said to his sons, 'What will you worship after me?' They said, 'We will worship your God and the God of your fathers, Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac - one God. And we are in submission* to Him' - Quran 2:133. *Arabic word used is Muslimun, i.e. Muslims.
Again, on delusional belief in Yahweh, Jews, Christians, and Muslims agree.
I'll give that to you. I don't doubt you or many others feel the same way.
I just feel differently.
Neither one of us should be condemned for that.
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anon_5e8aassgcbjz1
Guest
Would have preferred Deuteronomy 20:16 to get us fired up for gameday.Just thought this was a really coincidental time to see this, or was it?
I want more Old Testament Dabo
The “big bang” is, at present, the most logical explanation based on available evidence. Therefore, it is the most widely accepted explanation for how the universe started by scientists who spend the bulk of their lives studying this stuff.
So yeah I’m a “big bang guy” until more evidence comes along, though I doubt we’ll find anything that completely changes the logic around the Big Bang, more likely will just add to it or change some detail.
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anon_5e8aassgcbjz1
Guest
What’s the alternative presented by religion? The Big Bang is nonsense, but toss in a god that both comes from nothing and creates everything and it’s perfectly believable ?
You might be interested to learn more about the Hartle-Hawking no boundary proposal, though it’s technically more difficult to understand than the view of the Big Bang that’s now been popularized in media
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anon_5e8aassgcbjz1
Guest
I’m speaking from the religious perspective. I’m an atheist. I’m saying it’s ridiculous to them.
Also, I don’t think we should toss out “Big Bang” as if it constitutes an argument. 99% of the people that do so don’t understand enough physics to rely upon it. The Big Bang theory is usually coupled with Guth’s theory of inflation, and inflation has plenty of critics. Flawed scientific ideas at least can be improved. Can’t say the same of religious dogma
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anon_5e8aassgcbjz1
Guest
Happy that things are going well for you and hope they improve if they're not. I'd rather God help people not starve to death in Africa than waste his time on me.
I agree on what you can and can't prove. There's just no way to prove that God does (or doesn't) exist.
So when it comes to religion, it's a article of faith, not proof. So basically, I get to pick and there's no expectation of me "proving" anything to anyone.
Believing in nothing might be true, maybe the Christian system is correct, or maybe UngaBunga, river god of the Congo was the big boss all along. There's just no way to know.
So as long as I get to pick, I like the Christian values and faith a lot. I was raised that way, so I'm comfortable with the story and rules. Plus, I get to be a decent human being by following those mores. Finally, there's an afterlife where I get to live happily ever after. Sounds good to me and in the absence of solid proof, this seems a good way to go...
Needless to say, Thomas has always been my favorite disciple.
So when it comes to religion, it's a article of faith, not proof. So basically, I get to pick and there's no expectation of me "proving" anything to anyone.
Believing in nothing might be true, maybe the Christian system is correct, or maybe UngaBunga, river god of the Congo was the big boss all along. There's just no way to know.
So as long as I get to pick, I like the Christian values and faith a lot. I was raised that way, so I'm comfortable with the story and rules. Plus, I get to be a decent human being by following those mores. Finally, there's an afterlife where I get to live happily ever after. Sounds good to me and in the absence of solid proof, this seems a good way to go...
Needless to say, Thomas has always been my favorite disciple.
Kudos. However, there are MANY of your peers that will disagree with that statement.
Just so we’re on the same page, I can & do understand your perspective on this.
Appreciate the response.
Appreciate, as well, all of the work you do and have done in the past.
I think putting (Long) in the title of a thread is directly attributable to you. haha, love it
Questions for you.
And, btw I'm good with the Big Bang theory, too.
So.... what was before the Big Bang? Many will answer 'nothing'.
OK.
Just how long does it take for 'nothing' to become 'something'......let alone everything in the still expanding universe?
'SOMETHING' got 'there' for it to go 'bang'.
UPS didn't deliver it.
WHOEVER did supply it ........well that 'whoever' had to be there before that 'something' showed up. Or....it wouldn't have showed up. Ever.
Where did that 'something' come from?
Out of nothingness.
You and too many are too smart to believe that nothing= becomes something=everything, but it all happened randomly out of nowhere?
How can anyone possibly believe that?
Furthermore, where did the immense, unfathomable energy to blow up this little 'thing' (that turned into everything) come from?
Why did that incredible energy enter the picture?
Where did it come from?
You know, if there was nothing but nothing.
To believe all that, is MUCH harder than accepting maybe there's something else to all of this.
Because the Big Bang theory doesn't hold water.
Much less the entire universe.
If you ask someone what was before the Big Bang and they respond “nothing” then they don’t understand what the Big Bang was. The Big Bang theory in no way posits that something came from nothing.
So the entire premise of your response is flawed.
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anon_5e8aassgcbjz1
Guest
OK
Everything has a beginning.
What was before the Big Bang
What material was there and where did it come from?
You're too smart to not question how everything came from nothing.
That's not possible.
Choosing not to credit whomever or whatever to suit one's taste does not refute the fact that 'something' had to come from somewhere.....or there would still be nothing.
There is always a before with things that you can age.
Eternal things?
Yes.
I have no choice but to believe in that.
But not the physical Universe.
It is still expanding, coming from a source.
It began.
From What, Where, How and Why
I think so, but anyone can believe how they wish, who they wish and to what they wish. Will they go to Hell. I wouldn't say yes. because honestly, I am not sure.
"Believe in my white Jesus."
Although portrayed as white in 99% of manmade creations of Jesus, I have no problem in believing Jesus was not Caucasian.
Sure, it’s an absolute mind **** that anything actually exists at all. My eyes go crossed if I think about it too much. But I’m perfectly comfortable saying “I don’t know” and don’t need to attribute every unknown to a being that commands me to behave a certain way and worship them.
Basically the idea that an advanced extra terrestrial species made us by combining their dna with ape dna way back. In that case they would be God for us. I am not a believer in that but think its an interesting idea.
I think its obvious that a lot of our ancient history has been lost or hidden from us over time and there is a big mystery to be solved at some point.
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anon_5e8aassgcbjz1
Guest
It's certainly possible that we're someone else's experiment gone wrong.
I think as far as trying to explain how ancient people did this or that, we don't give them enough credit for how smart they were.
It was a 'like' until the last punchline.
I certainly have not tried to push anything on you. Especially no my Christianity
"to a being that commands me to behave a certain way and worship them"
The bolded above is not who the God of Christianity is.
To make a statement like that shows how little you know about THAT subject
As far as the Big Bang, you off-handed said that if people say there was nothing before the Big Bang, they don't know what they are talking about.
I have studied it some.
I know about discussions concerning:
-the split between matter and antimatter
-the BBN and the CMB temperature differences
-the Hubble Law. etc
Doesn't refute the fact that AT ONE POINT in the distant past there was basically nothing.
Nothing can create itself.
I know you're too smart to argue that point.
Spend some more time in the mind**** and you might start to think that Random cannot create Order, either.
Again. Not preaching to you and thank you for your consistently good analysis.
Peace.
Writes a whole post preaching to me then says “not preaching to you.” Interesting.
Do you just try to obstinate?
Or are you that gulit ridden and uncertain about your weak position of how the world was formed?
The only time I mentioned Christianity was in the last post.
Never asked your beliefs religiously speaking.
To assume that everything came from nothing is quite an assumption for one to make.
To be belligerent to with different opinions.....ones you can no more refute than theirs.....makes you look petty and a little unsure of yourself.
Particularly your snarky attacks.
But carry on.
You can beleive what you want whether you defend it or not.
The dude is so self-righteous it's amazing he has anyone that can put up with him/her.
Like I said before, uncappable of a genuine conversation.
He is by far one of the best contributors to TI, whether on this forum or the West Zone. He's been plenty conversational and goes into great detail many times and he's far from rude. You're barking up the wrong tree dude.
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anon_5e8aassgcbjz1
Guest
Wouldn't want Wes anywhere near the Department of Defense. Otherwise it'd probably be ok.
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