you are right. but your opinions DO make you a racist. just to be clear.
Team protest scheduled for June 13
- Thread starter GoodWord28
- Start date
you are right. but your opinions DO make you a racist. just to be clear.
I'm not really sure why we're talking about rights, here. Of course you have a right to protest in whatever way you want, although many of us wouldn't be given sponsorship opportunities and have lots of defenders if we used the prestige of our employers to make political points that were important to us personally.
When it comes to kneeling or whatever to take exception to the display of the nation's symbols, the people who have a problem with it don't necessarily think the nation is perfect, either. In fact, they probably think many things should change, and that unjust things have been done with the imprimatur of the United States. However, rather than thinking that means they can't respect the country, they work within the system to change things for the better because they believe the nation's ideals are just. That's the difference between a mindset of reform and a mindset of radicalism.
If you have any doubt about what the kneeling was meant to show, just look at Colin Kaepernick's quote about why he was doing it:
“I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses Black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder. …
“This is not something that I am going to run by anybody,” he said. “I am not looking for approval. I have to stand up for people that are oppressed. … If they take football away, my endorsements from me, I know that I stood up for what is right.”
Now, not only is that a radical stance, it's also just plain wrong in its reference to police violence against black people. It's woefully wrong about where the major threats to black people's safety come from. But that specific purpose of Kaepernick's protest was subsumed under the more anodyne justification that it was just about general racial inequality. Since that's a good cause, we should ignore the specific symbolism of the protest and what Kaepernick actually said. Let's also not forget about the pig/police socks that Kaepernick wore.
To me, those are all good reasons not to support Kaepernick's kneeling for the anthem and the flag movement. No, the government shouldn't infringe on his right to lead that movement, but people shouldn't feel like they have to support it just because they support racial equality.
Last edited:
what is the specific protest? Or is this joining in the other protest and they are doing it then because everyone will be back on campus?
it would be cool
If they linked arm in arm like they do at the beginning of games and walked through downtown.
Depending on the exact nature of the protest I’d be willing to join in, although I doubt I’d be invited.
I'd be fine with changing the name, but I'm just not sure it's going to change anything of substance. I could be wrong and maybe people will feel more included at Clemson if Tillman's name is gone. I suppose it's sort of ironic that OP's username is what it is. It's almost like the name "Tillman" has lost its original context.
Wow.... what a law the Heritage Act is.
https://www.postandcourier.com/opin...cle_594b30cc-112a-11ea-b992-b36c3fbb5ee8.html
https://www.postandcourier.com/opin...cle_594b30cc-112a-11ea-b992-b36c3fbb5ee8.html
It's not just the name. It's why that building is named that in the first place. Take an NFL example. Some people want the Redskins to change their name and others don't. That's always been their name. Now, let's say that the team was originally called the Fighting Washingtonians and then people got together and said, "You know what, these native Americans need to remember their place and what happens to them if they get out of line so let's change the name to the Redskins." THAT is what happened with Tillman Hall.
The problem with this is that it's still motivated by a false narrative about police violence against black people. It's probably more factually true that we just generally have a problem with the police shooting too many people, but I don't think that's a cause enough people would get behind.
Is that true? This says it was changed for the school's 50th anniversary at the behest of Tillman's son. I guess both things could be true: https://www.scpictureproject.org/pi...n 1893 – the same,during his term as governor.
Like I said, pedantic and condescending is your aesthetic.
Anecdotal evidence doesn't really refute large numbers.
There are literally hundreds and hundreds and examples. Black people are killed by police per capita at an exponentially higher rate than whites. There is no debate at this point about that. Calling it a false narrative is just simply untrue. We can certainly argue about the causes of it for days as it is incredibly nuanced but the fact of the matter is, it's not a false narrative. It happens and it happens every single day.
According to Twitter you may need to change your handle to stand with the team. Many players tweeting that the Tillman name needs to be removed.
I like the idea of calling it Old Main by its original name.
Last edited:
Um, what's good for the goose is good the gander, right? Or apparently you're the only one who's allowed to call people names.
It certainly doesn't hurt my feelings if you do. I don't think observing that your writing style is pedantic and condescending is equivalent to calling someone an ass, though.
You do you, though.
After living through the riots of the sixties and the last week or two, I can tell you without a doubt that kneeling in protest for the National Anthem is a VERY mild protest. I saw, on television, live and in color, black Olympic medal winners raising Black Power gloved fists at the National Anthem. And this never got all the negative comments as this kneeling thing.
I'm guessing you're not familiar with the stats, then. By the way, black people are 2.5 times more likely to be killed by police, which wouldn't really qualify as "exponential":
"Consider the following, from the 2018 National Crime Victimization Survey, Census data, FBI Uniform Crime Reports, and other sources: (For extended discussion, see my dissenting statement to the 2018 U.S. Commission on Civil Rights Report: Police Use of Force: Examination of Modern Police Practices, p. 197. Unless otherwise noted, most of the data is from 2018.)
- In 2016, 466 whites were killed by police; 233 blacks were killed by police.
- Whites are 76.5 percent of the U.S. population (including Hispanics); blacks are 13.4 percent of the U.S. population.
- Whites commit 59 percent of violent crimes (defined as murder, manslaughter, rape, robbery, aggravated assault); blacks commit 37.5 percent of violent crimes.
- One out of 8,511 blacks is arrested for murder; one in 58,582 whites is arrested for murder.
- Blacks are approximately 6.8 times more likely than whites to be arrested for murder.
- One out of 2,800,438 blacks is arrested for killing a cop; one of 7,674,278 whites is arrested for killing a cop.
- Blacks are 2.74 times more likely than whites to be arrested for killing a cop.
- In 2016, 66 cops were killed in the line of duty; 32 whites and 15 blacks were identified as the killers.
- More than twice as many blacks (533) murdered whites in 2016 than whites (243) murdered blacks.
- Black males are 6 percent of the U.S. population. Black males are responsible for 42 percent of cop killings in the last decade.
- In 2015, a cop was 18.5 times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male was likely to be killed by a cop.
- In 2016, 222 black males were killed by police. 16 were unarmed. 445 white males were killed by police. 20 were unarmed.
Between 2012 and 2015, blacks committed 85.5 percent of all black-white interracial violent victimizations (excluding interracial homicide, which is also disproportionately black-on-white). That works out to 540,360 felonious assaults on whites. Whites committed 14.4 percent of all interracial violent victimizations, or 91,470 felonious assaults on blacks.
The false narrative has devastating consequences to society. Death, destruction, and division are but a few. The aftermath to the false Michael Brown narrative is just one example. The devastation in Baltimore is another.
Riots are inevitable the next time a black person dies in police custody. People will be killed, property and livelihoods will be destroyed. The false narrative ensures that."
precisely zero. Why do you conveniently pretend to give a flying feces about the constitution, with straw man garbage like this? weak.
You don't think calling somebody "pedantic" and "condescending" is insulting? I don't know how the post your responded to here was condescending, but I'm sorry if you felt condescended to. I suspect you just disagree, and decided to insult me instead of responding with substance.
I doubt anyone. There is a big difference between a peaceful protest and a riot.
The problem with kneeling at some other point (not during the national anthem) is it is motivated by a false narrative about police violence? I am not following.
You ignored the words per capita
Here's the problem-
By the way, black people are 2.5 times more likely to be killed by police, which wouldn't really qualify as "exponential":
- In 2016, 466 whites were killed by police; 233 blacks were killed by police.
- Whites are 76.5 percent of the U.S. population (including Hispanics); blacks are 13.4 percent of the U.S. population
And that is ONLY considering those killed. That doesn't even consider just those brutalized but not killed. All of those examples I posted above and the hundreds and hundreds more none of them are people being killed. They are of police brutality of black citizens. Of course, I'm not even getting into sentencing inequity, death penalty usage or any other stat that is slanted against the black population.
No iceheart, it does not make him a racist. But many like you use the term "racist" often for those who disagree with your views. That's the problem with liberals. You are always such a caring, kind-hearted, sensitive group EXCEPT when others disagree with your opinions. Then you jump to the same fascist extremes of those you espouse to hate. This is the saddest irony of the 21st century democratic party and snowflakes like yourself.
Last year there were 19 white unarmed men killed by police and 9 unarmed black men. That’s it. It does not happen “every single day”.
There are not hundreds of examples. There are 19 for whites and 9 for blacks and that’s too many. We can do better.
I fully support our player’s right to protest.
But I also support the true facts being shared about police violence.
I also support our good performing police as well. I want more training for them to avoid violence as best as possible but I realize they risk their lives everyday to protect us.
Based on death statistics a police officer is 18.5 times more likely to be killed by a person of color than an unarmed person of color to be killed by an officer.
Source: WaPo
I didn’t at all. The 2.5 number takes population into account. As the numbers currently stand, whites are actually more likely to be killed while committing violent crimes than blacks. If you want to claim there’s discrimination in policing, police-related violence is the wrong tree to bark up.
If it’s about there being an epidemic of police violence against black people, which is what originally sparked the kneeling.
oh no. go through his post history. he's a racist. its pretty clear.
want to see white male fragility and snowflakery at its best. go through his post history.
You know facts are mostly frowned upon, or completely ignored these days, correct?
Two things-
1) You are again only talking about murder when talking about police-related violence. That is just a small drop in the bucket.
2) Even when it comes to murder, you are wrong. Black people are more likely to be killed by police.
I’m agreeing with you saying that black people are more likely to be killed by police. But it doesn’t make sense to look at that number without also looking at the number of crimes committed, and that’s far more disproportionately black men. In fact, police officers are more likely to be killed by black men than unarmed black men are to be killed by police officers. That doesn’t make any police related violence any better, and it doesn’t justify injustice. However, if we want to actually address the real problems we have, we need to accurately assess the situation.Two things-
1) You are again only talking about murder when talking about police-related violence. That is just a small drop in the bucket.
2) Even when it comes to murder, you are wrong. Black people are more likely to be killed by police.
Your second graph does helpfully show that police killings have gone down for people of all races. I’d imagine that trend will continue this year because of the lockdown.
Last edited:
That's why I said we could argue reasons for it for days. It's definitely nuanced. However, there is no way you can slice that there isn't a problem in this country with police violence (not just killing but violence) toward people of color. Heck, Native Americans have it even worse but, unfortunately, they are so marginalized that it's a forgotten issue.
That is the solution that I have long favored. The damn legislature has to approve an official name change but, if the administration, faculty and students simple referred to it as "Old Main" and never referred to it as Tillman Hall, it would be a done deal. If you wonder why people object to the Tillman name do a little research. He was responsible for murdering people because they chose to vote. When Teddy Roosevelt entertained George Washington Carver at the White House, Tillman said now we will have to kill 1000 N-word. Despicable.
Similar threads
