I guess I have to disagree with you. The stats do not show that there is a disproportionate amount of violence towards people of color relative to the crime rate.
Team protest scheduled for June 13
- Thread starter GoodWord28
- Start date
I would very interested in the “large numbers” evidence vs the anecdotes provided.
See what I posted above. Also, this: https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myth-of-systemic-police-racism-11591119883
I’m a technical trader by heart and the graph showing the lines reminds me of moving avgs on a stock chart. Your graph shows progress, meaning they’re coming together. That’s not perfect but we all want progress and your graph is showing that.Two things-
1) You are again only talking about murder when talking about police-related violence. That is just a small drop in the bucket.
2) Even when it comes to murder, you are wrong. Black people are more likely to be killed by police.
Thanks for posting.
you're either completely ignorant or just plain dumb if after all of this you STILL refuse to admit that there is excessive police violence against black people. You should be ashamed
After all what? Does it exist? Yes, of course. Where’s your evidence that there’s an amount that’s disproportionate to crime? Are you sure you’re not the ignorant one if you’re just insisting, against statistical evidence, that your point is self evident? Why are you so upset about hearing contrary evidence?
Should be fun to watch your post to see who likes it, just so I know who isn’t interested at all in facts.
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1. Because the internet didn't exist
2. Because news media dealt more in facts than in opinion
3. Because those athletes weren't multi-millionaires living the american dream
4. Because most of America gives less of a crap about the olympics than their favorite NFL team
5. Because it didn't happen week after week after week.
5a. And the olympic athletes were not employees who could easily be disciplined after the first instance.
There are probably more reasons, but that's my initial shot.
That's not a simple comparison. Have to factor in types of crime etc. If a "Crime" number for one race is made up more of non-violent white collar offenses and the other tends more toward the "violent" end of the crime spectrum then of course there would be a disparity
I have heard that Blacks commit crimes in greater proportion to their representation of the American population. I also think that police forces have a higher percentage of whites. Shouldn't it stand to reason that there are greater number of negative white cop- black person interactions?
Is this a "Team" protest or is it a protest by certain members of the team?
Big difference. Which is it?
That was the point of my initial post. IF we are going to have a Team Protest, then they should have a Team vigil for the police who help keep our society orderly just to balance things out, and follow that up with Team service at NewSpring to bring everyone back together.
Edit: And follow the NewSpring thing with something else to make sure that literally everyone is offended equally. And then get back to football.
Big difference. Which is it?
That was the point of my initial post. IF we are going to have a Team Protest, then they should have a Team vigil for the police who help keep our society orderly just to balance things out, and follow that up with Team service at NewSpring to bring everyone back together.
Edit: And follow the NewSpring thing with something else to make sure that literally everyone is offended equally. And then get back to football.
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https://outragedpatriot.com/rioters...d-and-father-leaving-childrens-hospitalvideo/
I wonder how many people will protest this ... you lose me when people act like animals like this
I wonder how many people will protest this ... you lose me when people act like animals like this
If they rename Tillman I make this suggestion.
call the building “whatever the **** makes your feel good about yourself”
cant go old main cause old people won’t like being singled out and young people will feel like it’s a place they aren’t accepted.
I just want to make sure Will Swinney doesn’t have to answer for a name of a building in 30 years.
call the building “whatever the **** makes your feel good about yourself”
cant go old main cause old people won’t like being singled out and young people will feel like it’s a place they aren’t accepted.
I just want to make sure Will Swinney doesn’t have to answer for a name of a building in 30 years.
And how does that address the last few weeks...as noted in my post? Fact is it was a peaceful and respectful protest. And a protest against a legitimate problem. No property was damaged. Nobody was hurt. And I am done here.
Kaepernick’s protest was explicitly not a respectful one, nor was it against a legitimate problem if we’re talking about discriminatory police violence. If it was just about one particular unjustified shooting, it would be more legitimate. If it was about general police shooting, it would be more legitimate. If it was against the epidemic of homicide of black men, it would be legitimate. As it is, it was about Mike Brown, which was a complicated case, and the idea that black people are constantly under threat from the police.
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agree that a public guardian who we should trust to protect a persons well being when taking them into custody has a higher responsibility than a criminal who feels no obligation as to public trust to protect anyone is different
Statistically speaking there are numerous people who are injured or killer by police when being arrested
unfortunately most we never know or hear about and this involves people of all colors and police of all colors and backgrounds
favor better training and more monitoring of police
this will be a problem but desperately needs a solution
I respect their right to do it. I just don’t respect them for doing it. Splintering our country is part of the problem and protesting the flag and our country, with all the entitlements it gives our citizens at birth, just seems wrong to me.
The flag and our anthem represents spilled blood for many families in this country and those families feel just as disrespected as black people who feel disrespected and who have also spilled blood. Protestors of the flag and our anthem should find a different way to protest.
It's not even about cops being killed sucking. Our nation and citizens have always honored our fallen soldiers at home, I refer to as cops. It's down right stupid and telling that he would make a comment about protesting black lives lost to having to at the same time honoring fallen cops. It's truly sad man. Some of the statements people make just reveal who they really are. If this country didn't already honor fallen cops I'd be up in arms. What we're trying to get done is not currently being done.
I've never kneeled during the anthem and I'm in 100% agreement with kneeling. America. No one ever questioned me standing because I didn't question them kneeling. I think that's how America is suppose to work. But you criticize them first. They go back at you and you somehow feel like you can't stand. But no one ever asked you to kneel. Confusing huh? Your right to stand was never questioned. YOU questioned their kneeling.
I'm black and I've never kneeled and have never taken any heat. I've stood beside white people standing proudly and saw no heat taken. I agree if you start shaming others while you're standing then you may have a problem. But this made up stuff is just sad. Even when Kaep was kneeling some people in the stadium booed him while others stood proudly with no judgement. The ones standing with no judgement get how America works. Others should try living in another country where you're forced to do stuff that is pro government without question.
If you consider any form of peaceful protest radical then you have a problem with the constitution. His idea or thoughts you might consider radical. Maybe that's the real issue. But a peaceful protest is a peaceful protest. The display itself is the protest. And it fits in line with the US Constitution and the rights of citizens. If you don't think there is truly an issue with regards to black people and the current system that is your right. We're not talking about if it's number one or number two in terms of dangers for black people. That's as if the top five can't be addressed simultaneously. And protesting during the anthem to gain attention by higher powers is basically the essence of protest. Using a large of a medium that you have access to to gain attention. That's it.
A lot of people just really have no concept of how great America is relative to how people have to live in other countries. They have no voice in other countries. That said, i recognize we have a long way to go here at home. I think it is shockingly tragic that we are not further along today than we are. We are two generations removed from the civil rights era during 60’s and we have far too many people that are purely racist and way to many that are indifferent.
Man. I'm almost speechless. Unless you tell me your police stops are as numerable as everyone I know and as disrespectful the majority of the time I can't agree. It's not just about deaths. Plus when you say unarmed deaths how can you even trust police reports compared to what we know about how much they lie. How many suspects shot were also unarmed before the corpse was armed. You are just finding this stuff out. I've known this stuff since I was a child. Police reports are just flat out lies. Again, even what you think you know, assume the unarmed deaths were as you stated. How many of the white deaths would you say race was a factor at all? I argue the majority of the stops, the vast majority that I experience, race is a factor. If we could somehow eliminate that I'd be happy. The gross disrespect and mistreatment is where the murders begin. What they think of me the moment they pull me over is the root of this all. I've done nothing. Those stats aren't kept anywhere. And if I protest that treatment at all it's escalation. But I can't argue with how you interpret your stats. You guys are convinced and it's really useless discussing it.
I’ve actually acknowledged what you’re saying here, but the stats are what they are. It’s also a fact that many black people feel the way you feel about the police, and that needs to be addressed. However, unless police are disarmed or they stop enforcing the law, I don’t see how we can totally avoid disproportionate police shootings of black men without crime going down. Much of that violent crime is against other black people (although black men also commit a disproportionate amount of interracial crime), so less crime would also benefit black people.
That's two different conversations. No one attacks officers for shooting armed criminals. Most of America including black America remains silent when officers shoot suspects. What you don't get is what you're seeing on video we've been saying forever and no one has believed us. This has been a problem and death is not the only time it's a problem. I'm obviously alive but it sucks being constantly harassed by officers. I do my best and so do my friends being as respectful as possible and it's a true waste of time.
Police don't need to be disarmed. They need to stop shooting unarmed black men because of how society views us based on statistics. Officers can't be racist. Officers have to know how to use profiling data and common sense at the same time. They have to because I don't want to die because some guy with brown skin is a piece of crap 2 blocks away from me or 2 or 30 years ago. I get treated like crap on a routine stop. Why? Solve that first.
You know how many black people are killed by officers. Write that number down. How many protests are there? We only protest the unarmed killings. We don't scream for blatant criminals. We want equal treatment. Hell I'll take almost equal treatment at this point. Even George Floyd was to have alleged to have passed a counterfeit 20 and the store owner said ON THE CALL TO POLICE, he was pretty sure the person wasn't aware. There was no need to handle him that way. This is normal treatment. These are not outliers. If you don't accept that then you won't accept anything I'm saying to you.
And for the love of God if it's such a small number of cops doing it then why is it always covered up or why are the bad guys so protected? If the job of a police officer was so honorable and what we're told is true the good officers would protect the integrity of the responsibility at all costs. In major cities the officers run the crime syndicates. That's a fact. I'm not sure about small towns but I imagine the corruption is there too. Two Americas have two different stories about cops. Dirty cops only exist in the movies for most white people while black folks actually know where the movie plot comes from.
How many unarmed black people do you think are shot in a year? Because last year, there were 9. There were 19 unarmed white people. I know you don’t trust the numbers, but they don’t really tell the story of police frequently shooting unarmed black people. As I posted above, police are more than 18 times more likely to be killed by a black person than a black person is to be killed by police.
I believe @TigerLion06 is older as well, where police shooting was a bigger problem while he was growing up. I saw a stat were unarmed black shootings have declined by 74% over the last 30 years
I agree with your points in this thread. 9 people? 28 black and white? Nearly 3 million people died in the US last year. That's 0.0009 percent of deaths.... Deer kill more people per year by a large margin. The notion that police are slaughtering people in the streets is just not there and that black should fear for their lives from Police every day they leave the house is ridiculous. If you wanna argue 1 is too many fine and I agree, but the conversation won't go anywhere if people can't even acknowledge the actual scale of this
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I guess my biggest problem with all of this that I think that if the focus of these protests and unrest is misguided, you not only not only don’t address the general problem of homicide against black men, you could make the problem worse by hampering police work.
It's definitely a cumulative effect. There could literally be zero deaths this year and that would mean nothing. Would be just an anomaly. Seriously. I just hate being treated like I'm not an adult male almost every time I have an interaction. If there is a small group of us that have an interaction we sit there like a bunch of rape victims because they just treated us like less than nothing and we couldn't even speak up for ourselves. A bunch of really good guys who have done everything the right way. Ruins the entire day. And it doesn't stop. Just wait till the next time. Rinse, wash repeat. Stop that and you'll begin to solve the problem with the deaths. No statistics in that but I got a million stories. If I sound pissed it's because I am. I appreciate you guys even listening.
I don't find it hard to believe black people are treated differently by police and I believe your personal and other people's stories. I make no argument or cast doubt against that and often I'm the 1st to point out in threads that make their way on TI that police officers were being dicks and overstepping their boundaries. I have no history of defending the police for sake of it, or really any history of it. I'm not saying you or others shouldn't be angry or sad, and I see alot of the issues people provide and agree their is work to be done. A lot
What I can't get behind is turning on the news or hearing people talk about how black people are dying by the hands of police that mirror Jews under Nazi rule in Germany when I know so few actually are. I'm not sure people appreciate or comprehend how tiny a number that is given the scale. I can't behind that the issue being so bad that millions of dollars in damage in cities across the country and deaths are somehow understandable because people are angry. I can't get behind that all white people are somehow part of the problem when they don't agree (not you specially, but countless others). I can't get behind radical ideas like Police needing to be defunded because of it, ect, ect. The absurd Political correctness examples are endless.
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I appreciate you attempting to be reasonable.
I tell people all the time to turn off the news if it has that sort of impact. I'll talk to people all the time that won't consider an issue because of what the media is doing even when they know without exaggeration it's still bad. Same with people exaggerating. That can't push you off of an issue if you believe an issue exists. Deal with it at the level you think it exists instead of discounting or speaking against it. I can agree that police brutality is an issue without the exaggeration. Without agreeing with the defunding solution. I don't agree with that solution but it doesn't stop me from speaking out against police brutality. I didn't agree with the draft pick idea in the NFL although I agree there is an issue.
And as hard as it seems to be to do, stop speaking on this stuff in scales and statistics. It's ok to believe it's not on the scale of Nazi Germany. Whoever said that just disagree and move on to the next point of discussion. That shouldn't push people away.
I don't blame many of you because you have no idea. Your experiences are totally different. When you read a police report you believe it for the most part. Why wouldn't you? Black folks for generations have been SENTENCED TO PRISON for false police reports. Nobody died in those cases but people are going to prison. Now with video we're seeing the inaccuracies in this stuff. But what we get is somehow people believing those are isolated incidents. They are not isolated. It's very normal behavior. You have to get that. You have to. Read the police reports of just recent events. The old guy in Buffalo tripped and fell. Both of us would totally believe that if not for video. George Floyd's video left out most of the details including the knee to the neck. There are routine interactions that are sending people to prison. Guy gets arrested for assaulting an officer but video shows he complied and was the one assaulted. Meanwhile no way a judge is going to believe the "suspect".
YOU would never do this to any person so it's hard to believe people are out here doing this stuff regularly. It makes no sense. People have to get past that idea. There are some horrible people out there and they are not you. And there's a lot of them. The average person doesn't realize how big the problem is with dirty cops and the criminal enterprise that is. These are not just movies. Officers are running criminal enterprises. I've seen entire police districts about down because of corruption and the response is well it was that one place. People are getting paid to look away. To help criminals eliminate competition. Many regular people see these as cool story lines in movies. Meanwhile I'm recalling that situation in real life. I fully expect at some point someone will reveal a major scandal in a police department and people will say, well that's just that one place. Doesn't mean all cops are bad. Or some other excuse minimizing it. And all cops are certainly not bad. Many are in dangerous positions based on what they know. Look I know it sounds like I'm complaining but I wish y'all knew what I knew. It would blow your mind.
