Funny that! Give her credit for saying it out loud... But still, totally disgusting and completely representative of the elitist thought process on the left these days.
The poor are just not capable of deciding what's best for their kids so they don't deserve the freedom to choose
- Thread starter Willence
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opposition to school choice is an endorsement for failing teachers and schools. If you oppose school choice, youre anti-education pure and simple.
mmmmm. I want to hate that statement for sure. Just like I wanted to hate it when Paul Ryan said a few years ago that a College Education isn't for everyone. But dumbasses can't pick a good education curriculum that going to do a good job of educating kids for the future. Poor doesn't have anything to do with it.
Here's just an example. My parents were all against sex education being taught in schools and said that this was something that needed to be taught at home. Sounds good right? But how could my parents do a good job of that when they couldn't even say the words Penis and Vagina out loud... I think they used tallywacker and Hooha or something like that. How can the actual scientific word for something be dirty? It's like we were living on Uranus.
Here's just an example. My parents were all against sex education being taught in schools and said that this was something that needed to be taught at home. Sounds good right? But how could my parents do a good job of that when they couldn't even say the words Penis and Vagina out loud... I think they used tallywacker and Hooha or something like that. How can the actual scientific word for something be dirty? It's like we were living on Uranus.
I think what you're talking about is separate from what this person said. Also, as an elected representative from the party that claims to hold the best interests and greatest hopes for empowerment to a group of people who fit that demographic description it is rather revealing of the motivations of the folks who proclaim they are the advocates for these folks rather than their overseers. This kind of commentary has a very condescending, judgmental and air of superiority tone to it.
As a matter of note, since we began teaching sex education in schools, teenage pregnancy, out of wedlock child birth, sexual deviance and the acceptance of all the seedy underbellies of that realm have exploded by an inestimable order of magnitude.
No, I don't think it is different. It's not a good idea to let folks w/o a high school degree determine what to teach kids for them to be successful.I think what you're talking about is separate from what this person said. Also, as an elected representative from the party that claims to hold the best interests and greatest hopes for empowerment to a group of people who fit that demographic description it is rather revealing of the motivations of the folks who proclaim they are the advocates for these folks rather than their overseers. This kind of commentary has a very condescending, judgmental and air of superiority tone to it.
As a matter of note, since we began teaching sex education in schools, teenage pregnancy, out of wedlock child birth, sexual deviance and the acceptance of all the seedy underbellies of that realm have exploded by an inestimable order of magnitude.
And correlation is not causation.
As a matter of note, since we began teaching sex education in schools, teenage pregnancy, out of wedlock child birth, sexual deviance and the acceptance of all the seedy underbellies of that realm have exploded by an inestimable order of magnitude.
Teen pregnancy has exploded? Do you have a stat to back up that claim? This is admittedly birth rate, but the two are connected. I've heard quite the opposite trend from my friends who are social workers.
Edit - More research on the subject:
The national teen pregnancy rates for ages 15-17 and 18-19 (the number of pregnancies per 1,000 females in the specified age group) have declined almost continuously for nearly 30 years.
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Teen pregnancy has exploded? Do you have a stat to back up that claim? This is admittedly birth rate, but the two are connected. I've heard quite the opposite trend from my friends who are social workers.
Edit - More research on the subject:
The national teen pregnancy rates for ages 15-17 and 18-19 (the number of pregnancies per 1,000 females in the specified age group) have declined almost continuously for nearly 30 years.
We have aborted over 60 million babies....
60 million during my lifetime. That's a whole lot of lives.
Predictable response. But devoid of facts.
How dare you bring facts that refute the conservative, abstinence based view that is ridiculously ineffective.
Quite possibly a whole lot of babies growing up on welfare.
My wife's PhD is in Public Health, so she's done some work on teen sex/STDs/and pregnancy. It's pretty interesting that abstinence only programs actually do work. Then delay the 1st time for both males and females by just over a year. HOWEVER that is not w/o a cost. Sex is almost invariably unplanned for these kids, so birth control and protection from STDs is generally not used...With predictable results.
Better yet I blame the poor for poverty in America
When you tax something you get less of it
I am all in on taxing them till them disappear
I am good with facts. He pointed out a flaw in what I said with respect to one thing. But what I said wasn't devoid of facts. Credit to him for showing me where I was wrong though. Abstinence is 100% effective btw.
… how did this thread get pigeonholed into discussing sex education?
Sex education? Fine
Teaching middle schoolers how to perform anal sex? Not fine
The majority of public schools are failing our kids. School choice puts the interests of the children first, which is where it should be. Teacher unions need to be broken.
and @hopefultiger13 … I dont know the full Paul Ryan quote or the context, but … no … not every person should go to college. College isn’t for everyone. Everyone should have access and the opportunity to go to college but there has been no bigger lie sold to our youth than “work smart not hard”.
There is nothing wrong with trade schools. No one in the history of human civilization has ever said “OMG!!!! I need a gender studies/political science major!!!” But 10s of thousands times a day people say “OMG!!! I need a plumber!!!”
The vilification of blue collar labor is elitism at its finest. If tomorrow morning we woke up and all of academia was sucked up and taken in a highly educated yet useless rapture … the world would keep spinning. If tomorrow we woke up and all the tradesmen were gone???? Civilization would end.
Sex education? Fine
Teaching middle schoolers how to perform anal sex? Not fine
The majority of public schools are failing our kids. School choice puts the interests of the children first, which is where it should be. Teacher unions need to be broken.
and @hopefultiger13 … I dont know the full Paul Ryan quote or the context, but … no … not every person should go to college. College isn’t for everyone. Everyone should have access and the opportunity to go to college but there has been no bigger lie sold to our youth than “work smart not hard”.
There is nothing wrong with trade schools. No one in the history of human civilization has ever said “OMG!!!! I need a gender studies/political science major!!!” But 10s of thousands times a day people say “OMG!!! I need a plumber!!!”
The vilification of blue collar labor is elitism at its finest. If tomorrow morning we woke up and all of academia was sucked up and taken in a highly educated yet useless rapture … the world would keep spinning. If tomorrow we woke up and all the tradesmen were gone???? Civilization would end.
the liberal way....we'll tell you whats best for you with ideas so good they have to be mandatory.
how bout they prove a single dollar they spend is done so efficiently before they tell other people they dont know whats best for themselves. its preposterous these pompous fking morons can sit there and act like they know anything about anything given everything they run is a completely useless pile of insolvent sht.
how bout they prove a single dollar they spend is done so efficiently before they tell other people they dont know whats best for themselves. its preposterous these pompous fking morons can sit there and act like they know anything about anything given everything they run is a completely useless pile of insolvent sht.
If we just look at income and not education, those that are more likely to NOT appropriate their allowed funds to private education, and instead spend it frivolously, are those who are desperate economically. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think this lady was equating a lack of education with a lack of income, and therefore they could not spend it wisely.
There are a large % of parents that aren't "too stupid"...they are just bad parents. They use school as day care for their underage "friends" and do nothing to develop their kids into productive members of society. I'm center right, but FFS, Republicans understand the importance of strong families EXCEPT when it comes to schools. Then its just the geographic cure, as if low performing students would become Rhodes Scholars if you just moved them to the local Catholic school.
I understand the view that teachers should just teach the 3 r's, etc. I would LOVE that, but that means that you have to do your part as a parent. I don't want to have to teach your kid responsibility and respect, that's your job. But I'm getting to the point where my new idea is to take disrespectful and behavioral problem students and send them to a new system of public military boarding schools run by former Military.
You can't get your child to behave in a regular brick and mortar? Then we'll remove them from the environment, and make sure that we churn out them out is productive and respectable citizens.
I understand the view that teachers should just teach the 3 r's, etc. I would LOVE that, but that means that you have to do your part as a parent. I don't want to have to teach your kid responsibility and respect, that's your job. But I'm getting to the point where my new idea is to take disrespectful and behavioral problem students and send them to a new system of public military boarding schools run by former Military.
You can't get your child to behave in a regular brick and mortar? Then we'll remove them from the environment, and make sure that we churn out them out is productive and respectable citizens.
If you live in South Carolina we don't have teachers unions. Middle schools also aren't teaching anal sex. Good lord some of you guys will believe anything.
This isn't the point of what I posted about. But to your point, just because it isn't happening in South Carolina doesn't mean it isn't happening elsewhere. You have a very defensive view about all of this. I've never understood that because the results are self evident. Generally, you're someone of great compassion who wants to help people succeed in life.
I am defensive because people take one rumor/bad teacher, and project it to an entire industry of extremely hard working and underpaid teachers. I get defensive because I can't think of a single other industry where we demonize a profession regularly with absolutely zero understanding or appreciation of what they do every single day.
It drives me nuts to see people post these stories about schools putting freaking litter boxes in bathrooms for furries and claiming it's happening everywhere and teachers and schools are crazy! Funny that nobody was ever able to provide proof that it actually happened... In fact I think maybe you had to apologize for spreading rumors about that. Hmmm.
I have a few questions for you:
Who decides when a parent is failing? What makes you think people on the right don't understand strong families when it comes to schools? I completely agree about parents needing to do a better job. I agree that as a whole, parents are failing in society. I'm just wondering who you want to put in charge of fixing that? Politicians on both sides aren't going to have the courage to blame parents. They are voters. That being said, I just wonder what you think the role of the state is in fixing these problems? Should it have any role really beyond clearly abusive situations? Now if you want to have behavioral schools for students who are disruptive good luck with that. I'm not opposed to that at all but you'll learn quickly in the public school model they won't do much about that. However, I am opposed to the state having an active role in raising kids. Government is a necessary evil at best. I don't want that monster anywhere near my children. I certainly don't want it deciding what is OK for my kids because we've seen that is clearly a recipe for disaster.
For my part, it's not so much that I want kids from areas with failing schools to be able to go to better public schools. My hope is we can get them entirely out of public schooling and into private schools which will help them have a chance in life despite their circumstances. The best way to lower poverty rates is to take everything we have to try and break the cycle of poverty in families. Now I know that adherence to moral principles works as well and that we should be encouraging that but I also know that it's not right to cram that down on people. Folks are going to have to choose. That's the biggest place we have gone wrong and it's evident all around us. That is not a matter of geography or poverty. It's quite literally everywhere.
Question for you... Who is going to pay for Private Schools for these children? The only way is governmental funding. If they are government funded it stands to reason we would want oversight into curriculum to insure that we are getting what we paid for as a country. At that point, what is the difference?
School choice people should just be honest and admit that what you really mean is that you want to get money for your children to offset your costs to send your kids to Private School
First of all, I didn't spread a rumor. I shared what I believed was a fact. But the problem with what I did is I said it like it was a fact when I hadn't seen it. At our school, I KNOW (because I was there) a child who believes they are a furry asked for a litter box. That thread wasn't as much about schools as it was about the massive issues kids are facing. In that little discussion, it's funny how that was just glossed over.
Second, there aren't single examples. There are hundreds and even thousands of examples of teachers doing a really poor job. It's everywhere around us. I could spend all day for the next three to four days constantly posting examples and I probably wouldn't get halfway through the list. That doesn't mean there aren't great public schools. We serve a school in a poor area every Friday and that school is fabulous. The teachers have devoted their lives to helping the kids they teach and the school backs them up 100%. However, reality tells us that school is the exception not the rule. You can deny this all you want but it won't change reality.
Lastly, you get so frustrated with me about my stance on education because you always take it personally. It's not personal toward your wife or any other teacher necessarily. We have a system that doesn't work. That is evident across the board. I don't even know how this is a debatable point at this juncture. We are failing kids everywhere. As someone who coaches football, officiates basketball, volunteers in schools, works with the Scouts, works occasionally with kids in public schools through our church, etc. I see this stuff everywhere I go.
In our area, it's kids choking on privilege and parents who are about so many of the wrong things. In others I have been in, it's kids who live in a very tough circumstances and just don't have access to the opportunities they should because they come from families in very difficult situations. The schools can't fix these problems. They shouldn't be asked to. But the reality of how these communities work is broken and we need a complete change in how we do things and that includes the schools. This isn't something that can be brought down from on high by daddy government either. It's a massive endeavor that will take a long time to start to correct.
I think the cost of educating a child in each state should be available to use in private schools. I am for completely defunding public education as it exists now and building a better model for the future. It would be better for the kids, better for families and better for the teachers and staff. The idea of a school district serving thousands or hundreds of thousands of kids is insane. When I look at what schools like the Ron Clark Academy are doing in the lives of kids and the families associated with them, it's inspiring. That's a model worth replicating and the results are self evident. The charter schools in Harlem were doing so well for so long until de Blasio and the teachers unions sought to shut them down because they provided a better education than they should have.
To your last point, sure, I would love to see the tax dollars I pay to toward educating my kids. Isn't that a fair things to hope for? I'd also like to see many other families have access to the opportunities my kids have had. We have sacrificed tremendously to send our kids to private school. And what I know after doing it for 14 years is that it's the best money we ever spent. I have two young men who are demonstrative of that and the friends they have around them are the opposite of what I had coming up and what I see in the time I spend elsewhere. Thank God for that!
It's probably fair to say we both are a little myopic in our views on Education. I know what I've seen, I know what they deal with, I know that the vast majority do a tremendous job. I recognize we have issues, I recognize we need to continue to improve. I also recognize that teachers and schools are performing better today than they ever have historically, the depth orlland breadth of curriculum is far better than what we experienced. Children read much earlier, they learn high level math much quicker than any of us did.
I don't believe that we need to throw out the bady with the bathwater. We need to continue to address the issues,while understanding and acknowledging that they, as a whole, do a pretty damn great job. Particularly when most of us kinda suck as parents.
I am extremely well versed in Ron Clark, in fact the Title One school my wife teaches at uses much of his principles and have sent many,many teachers to his academy for training.
You do realize that the Ron Clark Academy is publicly funded right? They have to take the same testing and perform to the curriculum that public schools have. I love Ron Clark and love how he teaches but it's not what you are recommending, he is working within the system.
To your point about public education funding being given back to you, since you don't have kids in public schools ...
I don't have kids in school either, I also haven't called the police in years, never need the fire department, don't use many,many roads or the sewage system.
Even though I don't use those things, I sure am glad they exist. I understand that some expenses are for the good of all. A well educated population creates a better work force, better innovation, drives industry and improves our quality of life.
If you allowed the funds to go to parents who want to put their kids in private schools all that will do is destroy education for the poor,working class. They could not afford private education with a voucher
I don’t live in SC. I live in Maryland, on the Eastern Shore. We do have teacher unions.
I have several friends on the western shore, specifically at Magothy Middle school in Anne Arundel county. It’s being taught …. It may not be taught at your local public schools and it’s not at mine (there isnt much difference between where I live and rural SC. Just no accents and far less Baptists) but is being taught elsewhere.
So get involved in your local school district, get involved in the PTA. People want "locally run" schools, but then bitch about what is happening locally. You have a role in that.
It is not publicly funded. It is corporately funded. Kids have to pay tuition to go there and every single family pays. Every single family has to volunteer for their kids to be there. I have two friends that have kids who go to school there. It's a community-based school environment which is what I am an advocate for. I am not an advocate for a public schooling system like we have now.
I didn't get that at all. And realize that I'm not saying you are wrong, just that I thought this was 100% about the parents not being able to make the best use of the money b/c of their lack of knowledge (education). BUT to be fair, I'm an IT guy and NOT the best communicator, so maybe I'm wrong.
There's certainly a correlation between education and income. Of course there are PLENTY of exceptions to this, but as a general rule higher education = higher income AND better rates of employment:
Education pays : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics
Unemployment rates and earnings by educational attainment
www.bls.gov
The RCA is combination public funding and private. They get tax credits etc. They also spend more than twice the $$ per student than the state does. Amazing that they get better results.
This encapsulates what I'm saying. You equate the use of public school like the use of the fire department or the police department and they should not be even remotely the same thing. Public school is not a public service for the protection of society. Public school is an idea that originated in Marxist ideology. It's awful and it's a path we've chosen which has shown to be a grievous error. There are so many better ways to deal with the education of our children.
Also the argument that we won't be able to pay for poor working-class families if we get away from public education is such a lazy thought process. It's also highly insulting because the assumption is that we get ours and we leave them to just flounder when the entire premise of my point to begin with comes from the fact that we have sentenced these families to schools that are not going to help their children. That's a ridiculous statement for you to make without any understanding of the other things that have been said. But it is very typical of the thought process these days.
When someone has another idea or perhaps a better way of doing things then let's assume they only care about the wealthy and we'll just feed the poor kids into a wood chipper. That type of thinking should not work anymore because it has been so destructive. And you know damn well that's not why I'm saying the things I am saying so I don't know why you go there with me.
A lot of that spending comes in the form of corporate grants. They send their kids all over the world and that has a tremendous cost. On a day-to-day education basis they are not paying anything that's outlandish. The travel component sends things through the roof.
Also, I never said public funding is bad. I am against government running and controlling of schools. Of course some funding from the state would be needed. But how we do it now creates very uneven results.
I’m in Queen Annes County, what I referenced is occurring/occurred in Anne Arundel county. I don’t expect you to be full versed in Maryland Geography, but these two counties are on opposite sides of the Bay Bridge (across the Chesapeake Bay) It’s astonishing the difference that 4 mile bridge makes.
But to be blunt … if this s* (or other BS like gender ideology or CRT, that have infected western shore schools) works it’s way into our schools, I won’t hesitate to debate and argue in front of school boards. I’ll yank my kids out of school mid class if I have too. I will not allow them to be infected by this utter nonsense.
It isn't government funding. It's money from citizens that was confiscated by the government for use in their failing endeavors. It is our money not theirs.
My question for you is this, what do you consider CRT? What do you consider gender ideology?
My wife is a school counselor. If a child comes to her and says they are struggling with their gender/sexuality, her parents don't understand, and they are considering suicide, should she be allowed to talk with this student? This exact situation has happened. In Florida under Desantis this is illegal.
What if a History class is discussing the discovery of America and discusses that the invading Europeans displaced and stole the lands of the indigenous people who were here, would you consider that CRT?
We throw these terms around like CRT and don't think about what that means, or how to address these issues.
