I actually think Trump would be happy to see the European leaders stepping up finally as they may actually bring something to the table and not rely solely on the US. Trump has repeatedly voiced frustration that they aren’t carrying their weight and now maybe finally seem motivated.
The United States Should Exit NATO. Momentum Building - Zelensky Says “Fvck Trump”?
- Thread starter fatpiggy
- Start date
I don't discount any of what you're saying but I believe your perception reflects more of your personal opinion, which I'm sure many agreed with, but not the majority.
It should be pointed out that the majority included independents at the time of the election but now his approval is underwater by 18 points w/independents in this latest SSRS poll and this was before Trump's outburst on Friday, so I expect the numbers to get worse from here. And without independents, it's hard to argue that the US is aligned with Trump's values.
the question is, will it be too little too late?
We all know Trump has a fragile ego and wants to make the United States respected again. I don't think he is pleased with Zelensky disrespecting him on the world stage.
I am leaning toward he will no longer support Ukraine as opposed to a NATO withdrawal. All though anything is possible at this point.
When our "allies" are arresting people for speech are they really our allies?
They hate Putin, but what are they fighting for? They aren't fighting for freedom.
Nah.
Trumps approval rating is sky high. Especially among those that voted for him. We are getting more than we asked for and could not be happier. We are using this once in a lifetime opportunity to reshape the governemnet and he is doing a fantastic job so far.
You're right, it's sky high with Republicans but not with the population as a whole.
I disagree, but it's not worth arguing over. He won in a landslide and had an overwhelming mandate to end the war.
You're free to disagree with a poll but it is one indicator and for the record, it had a MOE of 2.4 points so with even the most favorable interpretation, he's way underwater with independents, who I believe make up the majority of voters now.
Dude, I do statistics all day. It’s how I make a living.
I trust that poll like I trust gas station sushi. 0%
I think we should criticize some of these Euro countries for stuff like this while not feeling the need to paint Russia in a positive light. This isn't hard.
Censoring free speech = bad
Runaway entitlement programs = bad
Open borders and uncontrolled immigration = bad
Invading a sovereign country and committing atrocious war crimes = evil
Killing political opponents = evil
Can we all agree there?
This is a stat that was circulating online in 2023 originally published by a Russian NGO. Congrats on following people that parrot inaccurate pro-Kremlin talking points.
Point taken.
FWIW I didn't, nor did the post, paint Russia in a positive light. The numbers spoke for themselves.
And just to clarify, you aren't suggesting that Russia is the only one that kills political opponents are you?
Do you deny Europeans are being arrested for their speech?This is a stat that was circulating online in 2023 originally published by a Russian NGO. Congrats on following people that parrot inaccurate pro-Kremlin talking points.
That's immaterial. You posted a claim from Insurrection Barbie claiming last year 3000 and 400 people were arrested in UK and Russia, respectfully, for online hate speech. That is a lie.
OK, ill aknowledge the numbers may be incorrect.
I maintain that Europe is arresting meaningful numbers of people for speech.
Those values do not align with our values. And we should question our relationships until our values more closely align.
1. Do you not find it strange that your twitter follows are spreading Kremlin disinformation badmouthing our historical allies?
2. What are the people being arrested posting about that leads to their arrest? Is it people broadcasting hate speech and promoting violence? Are they deliberate disinformation posts that are leading to innocent people being harassed/harmed/etc?
I'd like some details showing what these people in the UK are posting which is leading them to being arrested. Matt Jukes, the Assistant Commissioner of Counter Terrorism with Scotland Yard, said it's people inciting violence/threatening violence to individuals.*
*
They were arrested for posting on social media during the riots – will it change anything?
Charges following disorder felt significant, but for social media giants there was no day of reckoning.
www.bbc.com
Values like news organizations that won't call it the Gulf of America being prevented from covering his press conferences? Or suing networks for editing an interview? Or launching an investigation into a series of media companies including NBC, NPR and PBS? You're blind if you don't recognize that we have a weaponized FCC using their powers to create a chilling effect on the ability of journalists to report without fear of retaliation. This is the path that Viktor Orbán took in Hungary, where you use the power of the state to ensure that the media is compliant and a path that we know Trump wants to model. So when you say free speech, I think you mean free speech that you approve.
I did ask AI about her numbers and to be honest she was not far off. Posted below.1. Do you not find it strange that your twitter follows are spreading Kremlin disinformation badmouthing our historical allies?
2. What are the people being arrested posting about that leads to their arrest? Is it people broadcasting hate speech and promoting violence? Are they deliberate disinformation posts that are leading to innocent people being harassed/harmed/etc?
I'd like some details showing what these people in the UK are posting which is leading them to being arrested. Matt Jukes, the Assistant Commissioner of Counter Terrorism with Scotland Yard, said it's people inciting violence/threatening violence to individuals.*
*
They were arrested for posting on social media during the riots – will it change anything?
Charges following disorder felt significant, but for social media giants there was no day of reckoning.
My point remains, the values we share with Europe are diverging. The American people will not stand for erosions to their rights, particularly freedom of speech.
Comprehensive, official data comparing the exact number of arrests for speech violations in Russia versus Europe for the year 2024 is not fully available as of March 3, 2025, due to the lack of centralized, up-to-date statistics from all relevant countries and the ongoing nature of 2024’s events. However, I can provide an informed comparison based on available reports, trends, and partial data from 2024, supplemented by contextual insights from prior years.
Russia in 2024
In Russia, arrests for speech violations are typically tied to laws against "extremism," "discrediting the armed forces," "spreading fake news" about the military, and anti-war expression, especially following the 2022 invasion of Ukraine. These laws have been aggressively enforced, targeting journalists, activists, poets, and ordinary citizens. For instance:
- A UN expert reported in January 2024 that two poets, Artyom Kamardin and Yegor Shtovba, were sentenced to 7 and 5.5 years, respectively, for reciting anti-war poems in Moscow, highlighting the clampdown on artistic expression.
- Human Rights Watch noted in its 2024 report that Russia adopted repressive legislation and issued long prison sentences for peaceful anti-war speech, with authorities prosecuting individuals on charges like "treason" and "confidential cooperation" at an increasing rate. In the first half of 2023 alone, the FSB opened more treason cases than in all of 2022, a trend likely continuing into 2024.
- The Washington Post reported in April 2024 that Russia arrested journalists like Sergey Karelin on "extremism" charges, part of a broader crackdown on dissent. While exact 2024 arrest numbers are not specified, estimates from prior years provide context: a Russian human rights group, Agora, documented 411 criminal cases against internet users in 2017, a figure often cited in comparisons, though actual arrests in 2024 are likely higher given intensified censorship post-Ukraine invasion.
Europe in 2024
Europe, encompassing the European Union (EU) and other countries like the UK, has a varied approach to speech violations, often tied to hate speech, incitement to violence, or disinformation laws, though enforcement differs by country. "Europe" is not a monolith, so aggregating arrests is challenging, and no single 2024 figure exists as of now. Key insights include:
- United Kingdom: The UK uses laws like Section 127 of the Communications Act to address "grossly offensive" or "menacing" online content. A widely circulated (but debunked) claim from 2017 stated 3,300 arrests for social media posts, though this covered broader online harassment, not just speech violations. In 2024, around 500 people were arrested during far-right riots following the Southport stabbings, with some arrests linked to social media activity inciting violence, not pure "free speech." Posts on X claiming 4,000 arrests in 2024 for "thought crimes" in the UK or EU exaggerate and lack evidence, conflating broader criminal acts with speech-specific cases.
- EU Countries: Individual nations enforce speech laws differently. Germany, for example, arrested two German-Russian nationals in April 2024 for plotting sabotage on behalf of Russia, though this was not a pure speech violation. France arrested a Russian in July 2024 suspected of Olympic destabilization, potentially involving disinformation. The EU’s focus on countering Russian propaganda (e.g., sanctioning "Voice of Europe" in May 2024) suggests some arrests tied to disinformation, but these are niche cases. The Institute of Mass Information noted 15 non-war-related speech violations in Ukraine in October 2024, though most of its 41 recorded violations were Russia’s doing.
- Across Europe, hate speech prosecutions occur, but jail sentences for speech protected under international norms are rare, per PA Media’s 2023 analysis. A 2024 EU-wide total of 4,000 arrests, as claimed on X, is unverified and likely inflated, possibly misrepresenting data from prior years or broader crime categories.
- Russia: Likely several hundred to 1,000+ arrests in 2024, based on intensified crackdowns and historical trends (e.g., 411 cases in 2017 escalating post-2022). The focus is on political dissent and anti-war speech, with severe penalties (e.g., 15-year sentences for "mass riots" in Bashkortostan protests).
- Europe: Potentially hundreds across 44+ countries, but far less per capita than Russia, with arrests spread across hate speech, incitement, and rare disinformation cases. The UK’s 500 riot-related arrests in 2024 include some speech violations, but a continent-wide total of 4,000 is unsubstantiated. A more realistic estimate might be in the low hundreds to 1,000, heavily weighted by specific events.
Russia likely arrested more individuals for speech violations in 2024 than all of Europe combined, driven by systematic censorship of dissent, whereas Europe’s arrests are more sporadic, context-specific (e.g., riots, hate speech), and less politically uniform. Russia’s per capita rate is almost certainly higher given its population (144 million) versus Europe’s (750 million+), and its authoritarian approach contrasts with Europe’s democratic legal frameworks, where speech protections are stronger despite occasional overreach. Without finalized 2024 data, these are educated estimates—Russia’s total could be 1,000–2,000, Europe’s perhaps 500–1,000—but Russia’s suppression of speech appears more pervasive and targeted. For precise figures, we’d need official reports, unlikely to emerge fully until later in 2025.
Yawn. Should have thought about that when you were in power.
No, I mean like on X. All speech is legal unless it violates the law.
AI's not far off comparing the amount of arrests across 44 countries that have, in total, 5x the population of Russia? So, we've moved the goalposts from arrests in the UK to arrests across 44 countries to be compared/contrasted against 1 country?
You should just save everyone the time and just admit you follow Kremlin-backed accounts who are trying to disrupt America's alliances.
I dont care where the information comes from.
You can't dispute that Europeans are being arrested for speech. Up to 1,000 people were arrested for social media posts in Europe!
And you are ok with that?!?!?
NO THANKS. The voters spoke loud and clear.
Am I fine with people being arrested for hate speech/inciting violence/threatening violence? Yeah, I don't care one bit about that. The same way I don't care if someone is arrested for falsely screaming FIRE in a crowded event.
Also, regardless of the various European countries' laws about hate speech, blowing up those alliances to be closer to Russia, who we have even LESS in common with, is asinine.
And let me guess, you were OK with the Biden admin demand that speech be censored on social media?
America voted and that was not OK. You lost that debate.
Now, the debate is whether we should support countries who don't align with our values. It's looking like we will not.
Got it, you want free speech for Andrew Tate, Alex Jones and Ye but not for long-established, respected news organizations.
Nope. CNN should have its voice. MSNBC should have its voice. As long as there is a market for censored speech they will exist and that is OK.
And i have already admitted the Tate brothers are human scum.
I don't recall the Biden admin demanding speech be censored on social media. I recall both Biden and Trump administrations reaching out to social media companies to see if they can reign in disinformation, but i don't recall seeing any demands levied, nor punishments applied should the social media companies do nothing.
I get that you don't really have any ability to discuss these topics in good faith, but it's funny seeing you go down this particular path wrt to Russia and our current European allies. Is it your belief that our values more closely align with a Russian dictatorship than with European democracies?
Let's just stop saying we value free speech while Trump is actively trying to chill news organizations from reporting on him critically.
FYI - the Tate brothers were treated better than Zelensky...let that sink in.
We're not leaving NATO.
Norway didn't refuse to refuel our ships. A company CEO said they may do that. The Norwegian government told the company very quickly that they will refuel our ships.
Subs don't really require refueling. They're all nukes.
You're welcome to post evidence refuting my comments, but I wouldn't imagine it holds up to much scrutiny.
But i think that we'll keep NATO from getting involved in Ukraine. The EU can do it but we're not going to be drug into it.
