The United States Should Exit NATO. Momentum Building - Zelensky Says “Fvck Trump”?
- Thread starter fatpiggy
- Start date
Dude, the country that is being fought over hasn't held an election. How can that be an argument? Tell Ukraine to hold an election so we know who the real President is. As it is NO ONE IN UKRAINE HAS A VOICE RIGHT NOW.
Maybe Putin is right.
Maybe Europe doesn't want peace. It sure didn't look like it in the Oval office the other day.
Crazy take, a wartime president correctly challenged Vance who was telling him that Putin would respect a diplomatic agreement by explaining that he didn't honor past agreements and he got slaughtered for that and kicked out of the White House without even being allowed to have lunch. What have we become?
What do you think is supposed to happen? You think we continue to offensively attack a country we are actively trying to negotiate a peace with? Surely even you can understand how that’s generally not the best idea.
I think piggy is implying that he will announce a withdrawl from NATO
Was this necessary? Tell me what I said that was wrong because I can guarantee you that more people see it that way than don't.
What has Europe become?
They expect a lot out of US.
And yet, they don’t respect our values and talk down to us.
I think Trump may be done with them
I’m not sure he is allowed to withdraw from NATO? Does he need congressional approval?
Probably not necessary. Neither is the handwringing and constant negativity and whinging after the constant positivity and defending the last 4 years. It’s not difficult to not be hyper partisan.
And no one is leaving NATO. we’ve already done this. You guys didn’t learn anything last time?
I wouldn't be so sure about that as i don't know what is required to exit NATO. Congressional approval will not be obtained i do not think. But if Trump can unilaterally decide to exit us from NATO, i think we are as good as gone.
Trump is a disrupter and this is his biggest opportunity to disrupt the status quo yet.
Depends on how closely you want to tie an Ukraine-Russia deal to a thawing of NATO relations between the US and Russia. The idea isn’t ridiculous if we’re given something in return, but a lack of trust should make the price go up.
If we’re going to call leaving NATO hysteria (where I agree with you), it’s a legitimate question to ask what happens when the GRU continues to conduct cyberattacks against NATO members, which they almost assuredly will do .
How would the US exit NATO?
For the United States to exit NATO (North Atlantic Treaty Organization), several legal, political, and procedural steps would need to occur. Here’s a breakdown of what would be required:
1. Legal Authority and Constitutional Process
If, say, a U.S. president on March 03, 2025, decided to exit NATO:
For the United States to exit NATO (North Atlantic Treaty Organization), several legal, political, and procedural steps would need to occur. Here’s a breakdown of what would be required:
1. Legal Authority and Constitutional Process
- Presidential Authority: The U.S. Constitution grants the president significant authority over foreign affairs as the commander-in-chief and chief executive. However, withdrawing from NATO, a treaty ratified by the Senate, would likely involve a complex interplay between the executive and legislative branches.
- Treaty Withdrawal Precedent: The U.S. has withdrawn from treaties before (e.g., the Paris Climate Agreement or the Iran Nuclear Deal), typically via executive action. The NATO treaty itself (the North Atlantic Treaty, signed in 1949) includes a withdrawal clause in Article 13, which states that any member can leave "one year after its notice of denunciation has been given to the Government of the United States of America." Since the U.S. is both a member and the depository of the treaty, the president could theoretically initiate this process by notifying the other NATO members.
- Congressional Role: While the president can withdraw from many international agreements unilaterally, some legal scholars argue that exiting a treaty as significant as NATO—due to its mutual defense pact (Article 5)—might require Senate approval (since treaties are ratified by a two-thirds Senate vote under Article II, Section 2). Congress could also attempt to block or influence withdrawal through legislation, funding restrictions, or political pressure, though the Supreme Court has historically avoided ruling definitively on this balance of power (e.g., Goldwater v. Carter, 1979).
- Per Article 13 of the NATO treaty, the U.S. would need to formally notify all other NATO member states of its intent to withdraw. This notice would start a one-year clock, after which the withdrawal would take effect. The notification would likely be a diplomatic act led by the State Department under presidential direction.
- Executive Decision: The president would need to prioritize and justify the exit, likely facing significant domestic and international backlash. NATO’s collective defense framework has been a cornerstone of U.S. foreign policy since 1949, so a compelling rationale (e.g., strategic realignment, cost concerns, or isolationist policy) would be necessary.
- Public and Congressional Support: While not legally required, broad political support would ease the process. Opposition from Congress, the military establishment, or the public could complicate withdrawal, especially given NATO’s role in U.S. national security. Congressional hearings, debates, and resolutions would likely ensue.
- Military Implications: The U.S. would need to disentangle its military commitments, including troop deployments in Europe (e.g., bases in Germany, Italy, and Poland), joint exercises, and integrated command structures like Supreme Allied Commander Europe (SACEUR), traditionally a U.S. officer.
- Allied Relations: Withdrawal would strain or rupture alliances with 31 other NATO members, requiring diplomatic efforts to mitigate fallout or negotiate new bilateral agreements.
- Global Perception: Exiting NATO could signal a U.S. retreat from global leadership, potentially emboldening adversaries like Russia or China, which would require a strategic plan to address.
- Legal Challenges: Domestic lawsuits or international disputes could arise, questioning the president’s authority or the implications for existing commitments.
- Allied Pressure: NATO allies might lobby heavily against U.S. withdrawal, citing shared security threats (e.g., Russia’s actions in Ukraine).
- Timing: The one-year waiting period could allow opponents to mobilize, potentially leading to a reversal if a new administration takes office.
If, say, a U.S. president on March 03, 2025, decided to exit NATO:
- They would issue a formal notice of denunciation to the other 31 members.
- The State Department would manage diplomatic fallout during the one-year period (ending March 03, 2026).
- Congress might attempt to intervene via legislation or funding cuts to NATO-related programs.
- The U.S. would begin withdrawing forces and resources from NATO structures, assuming no reversal occurs.
How better for Trump to tell the world that Obama is no longer in charge? Susan Rice and her cronies were against the mineral deal and encouraged Zelensky to beg for more.
Trump has an opportunity to say "This is MY foreign policy, not Obama's"
Trump has an opportunity to say "This is MY foreign policy, not Obama's"
Yeah. And we will recommence/continue to conduct cyber ops against Russia. We are turning the offensive ops way down right now to help with any potential negotiations. No more. No less.
Europe no longer aligns with the United States values.
Re-work NATO to include a first amendent to protect free speech.
Re-work NATO to include a first amendent to protect free speech.
That's shameful what the Dems did and zelensky acted in bad faith. He let the charade continue and came to the WH acting like he was showing up to sign a deal the deal had already been negotiated. Instead of jus saying thank you for your support and telling the media that there were a few additional items that needed to be discussed, he decided to make his addtional demands in public.
Half this board could read this post multiple times and still not get the point that the poster is trying to make.
Wait…that’s satire right?
Europe’s incredible lack of self reflection and desire to be suicidally tolerant while selectively suppressing basic freedoms is incredible.
The Kremlin talking points on display itt from MAGA is disheartening. What has become of the Republican party
Im assuming the majority that voiced their opinion at the ballot box a few short months ago.
The constitution.
They don't have to have our same exact values, but if we are going to pay them and fight for them it would at least be nice if we were close.
For example, you would not pay or defend Putin.
The number one issue for those voters was inflation, not stating they approved of Donald Trump's values, which are the worst we've ever seen from an American politician. If those are the values the US aligns with, Europe would be a massive upgrade.
Both were factors. I think immigration was a larger factor. I view both as symptoms - not the disease/main driver of the election outcome. Put differently, they were components of a larger groundswell that drove the election results.
If you had to name the biggest issue, what do you think it was?
Personally, I agree with dpic. I think inflation was the number one issue for most voters. The adage you vote with your wallet applies here.
I think it was an overall perception of competence and leadership. I think the economy and inflation was a big factor. I think immigration was a factor. I think - ultimately - it was a perception that we were rudderless and there was just a general malaise inspired by an overarching lack of confidence in the competence of leadership and frustrations around the social agenda and middle America feeling like they were going unheard.
This is not OK. This is what i mean when i say our values are not aligned.
This is a violation of our 1st Amendment, something that was violated by the previous administration. Forgive us if we are a little sensitive about it. I have a hard time being in an alliance with any country that does not respect free speech.
JD Vance called this out to Starmer too i believe
This is a violation of our 1st Amendment, something that was violated by the previous administration. Forgive us if we are a little sensitive about it. I have a hard time being in an alliance with any country that does not respect free speech.
JD Vance called this out to Starmer too i believe
Yes, pre-election polling and exit polling confirmed it was the top issue.
Survey: 41% Of Americans Say Inflation Is Their Top Economic Issue For The 2024 Election | Bankrate
Americans will consider inflation, health care costs and affordable housing when they enter the voting booth this November.
www.bankrate.com
National Exit Polls: Election 2024 Results
Follow exit polls from the 2024 general election. Explore key insights, voter demographics and trends that may shape the outcomes of key 2024 election races.
www.nbcnews.com
