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Tough watching Deshaun be a villain…

It all started after he started hanging with Mia Khalifa...

Seriously...dude made some young and dumb mistakes and let the wrong head do his thinking but at the end of the day, they could not find anything to prosecute him for. He did not rape anyone and not enough evidence of sexual misconduct to prosecute.

People out there using dating websites to get laid all the time. You cannot sit and look at any poster with a straight face and say some chick on instagram, who is not a massage therapist, is going to accept money to fly in, come to Watson's house and not think there are some strings attached.

It was a money grab...dumb ass decision by DW. DW has done a ton for the community in Houston and in his home town. People are letting bad decisions by a young man, that is not married, skew his entire persona.

He is welcome at Clemson, likely always will be, and I hope like hell he becomes the elite QB we know he can be and this has been a learning lesson

There are guys out there that have done much worse and been welcomed at Clemson. Ray Lewis gave a freaking pregame speech...
Yep! So called Tiger Fans are quick to judge and turn their back on one of their own. Who by the way has done ALOT of great things for Clemson University. Texans were behind alot of that crap that went down $$$$.

His OL did no favors for him tonight, looked similar to his days in Houston. Can't even take a drop without having to run for his life.

Taking my Son and his friend on Fall break, flying to Seattle to watch Browns/Seahawks play end of October. Can't wait!

Guess that makes me a bad person for supporting Watson.
 
Bad people make bad decisions.
Good people make bad decisions.
Great people make bad decisions.

All people make bad decisions.

All people are sinners .

All people can be sinners saved by God's grace thanks to Jesus Christ !

DW4 is a legend on the college gridiron and it is yet to be determined what his future legendary status may be. His ending has been written but only God knows what that is ..... Just as He knows the number of hairs on our heads.

DW4 has also shown great promise by the communities he has provided good deeds and service too.

Yet some people only focus on the bad services (pun intended) he requested.

Very few people on this board know what type of person he is ...including me. But I do know , people that sin every day (all of us) should not be the ones passing judgement. Sure it's okay to state your opinion but to argue that he is a bad person or good person is kind of stupid when u have no knowledge of his everyday walk through life.

He has shown he has good and bad qualities just like everyone else.

I wish him the best. Hope he is who I personally think he is.... A winner !
 
It all started after he started hanging with Mia Khalifa...

Seriously...dude made some young and dumb mistakes and let the wrong head do his thinking but at the end of the day, they could not find anything to prosecute him for. He did not rape anyone and not enough evidence of sexual misconduct to prosecute.

People out there using dating websites to get laid all the time. You cannot sit and look at any poster with a straight face and say some chick on instagram, who is not a massage therapist, is going to accept money to fly in, come to Watson's house and not think there are some strings attached.

It was a money grab...dumb ass decision by DW. DW has done a ton for the community in Houston and in his home town. People are letting bad decisions by a young man, that is not married, skew his entire persona.

He is welcome at Clemson, likely always will be, and I hope like hell he becomes the elite QB we know he can be and this has been a learning lesson

There are guys out there that have done much worse and been welcomed at Clemson. Ray Lewis gave a freaking pregame speech...
I’m not going to go down the path of debating whether or not Deshaun actually committed a crime or not. I’ve done that before and it’s not worth the back and forth through this medium of discussion. With that said, in my opinion, I think it’s absolutely possible that 1) just because he didn’t get convicted doesn’t mean he isn’t guilty (guilty individuals go free all the time) and 2) regardless of his innocence, he did something that was weird, sexually deviant, and unbecoming of a “Clemson man”.

All of my opinions about Deshaun’s innocence aside, my biggest issue with these discussions around Deshaun is the hypocrisy and ignorance of those who adamantly support him. Everyone shouts forgive and forget, but, if we’re really being honest, if Deshaun didn’t succeed at Clemson (or if he did succeed at one of our rivals) no one would be defending him as they are here. In fact, I’d imagine most would be tearing him apart. Also, it’s not like Deshaun has acknowledged or apologized for what he did. Every action he’s done to “set things right” have been because his hand has been forced, not because he was willing. Finally, I thought Clemson is supposed to be different than other universities and football programs by the way of our culture and development of young men. If Clemson is who we claim to be, we can’t have some who half the country believes is a sexual predator representing the university (whether that’s proven legally or in the court of public opinion). You can’t just lower our standard because someone threw a football well while he was at Clemson.
 
Yikes.

I think with the ref nothing will happen. Heated moment and I’m sure of you asked the ref himself he probably has no problem with what happened.

But the blatant throwing people down by the facemask…something may happen. So unnecessary and I’m sure the steelers considered it dirty
 
I’m not going to go down the path of debating whether or not Deshaun actually committed a crime or not. I’ve done that before and it’s not worth the back and forth through this medium of discussion. With that said, in my opinion, I think it’s absolutely possible that 1) just because he didn’t get convicted doesn’t mean he isn’t guilty (guilty individuals go free all the time) and 2) regardless of his innocence, he did something that was weird, sexually deviant, and unbecoming of a “Clemson man”.

All of my opinions about Deshaun’s innocence aside, my biggest issue with these discussions around Deshaun is the hypocrisy and ignorance of those who adamantly support him. Everyone shouts forgive and forget, but, if we’re really being honest, if Deshaun didn’t succeed at Clemson (or if he did succeed at one of our rivals) no one would be defending him as they are here. In fact, I’d imagine most would be tearing him apart. Also, it’s not like Deshaun has acknowledged or apologized for what he did. Every action he’s done to “set things right” have been because his hand has been forced, not because he was willing. Finally, I thought Clemson is supposed to be different than other universities and football programs by the way of our culture and development of young men. If Clemson is who we claim to be, we can’t have some who half the country believes is a sexual predator representing the university (whether that’s proven legally or in the court of public opinion). You can’t just lower our standard because someone threw a football well while he was at Clemson.

You claim he is a sexual predator but have no evidence of it. The ultimate guilty until proven innocent view that this world has come to. Clemson is not that much different than any school. Young men do stupid shit. Give young men wealth and fame, and the likelihood of them doing stupid shit rises.

Sure, Dabo has created a culture that has kept them clean for the most part while in college. But if fans think there is not more that goes on behind the scenes that just is not made public I do not know what to tell you. Clemson players are not perfect by any stretch even while they are there...they are still college kids.

Young men make mistakes...he made a mistake thinking his wealth and fame could get him whatever he wanted. But there is nothing that proves he was a sexual predator other than things you've read that the women and lawyers attacking him put out there. And there is plenty of conflicting info...he was a horny young man

Some of the women claiming harassment came back for more. And others had text messages showing it was consensual...but then they were a victim.
 
You claim he is a sexual predator but have no evidence of it. The ultimate guilty until proven innocent view that this world has come to. Clemson is not that much different than any school. Young men do stupid shit. Give young men wealth and fame, and the likelihood of them doing stupid shit rises.

Sure, Dabo has created a culture that has kept them clean for the most part while in college. But if fans think there is not more that goes on behind the scenes that just is not made public I do not know what to tell you. Clemson players are not perfect by any stretch even while they are there...they are still college kids.

Young men make mistakes...he made a mistake thinking his wealth and fame could get him whatever he wanted. But there is nothing that proves he was a sexual predator other than things you've read that the women and lawyers attacking him put out there. And there is plenty of conflicting info...he was a horny young man

Some of the women claiming harassment came back for more. And others had text messages showing it was consensual...but then they were a victim.
Lost in all of this was Watson went public pretty much that he wanted out of Houston. All of a sudden, these charges start to appear against him. Texans Owner and his Neighbor is the Attorney.

Coincidence or not, it was all about $$$. I absolutely believe the Texans had a hand (no pun intended) in alot of that fiasco.
 
You claim he is a sexual predator but have no evidence of it. The ultimate guilty until proven innocent view that this world has come to. Clemson is not that much different than any school. Young men do stupid shit. Give young men wealth and fame, and the likelihood of them doing stupid shit rises.

Sure, Dabo has created a culture that has kept them clean for the most part while in college. But if fans think there is not more that goes on behind the scenes that just is not made public I do not know what to tell you. Clemson players are not perfect by any stretch even while they are there...they are still college kids.

Young men make mistakes...he made a mistake thinking his wealth and fame could get him whatever he wanted. But there is nothing that proves he was a sexual predator other than things you've read that the women and lawyers attacking him put out there. And there is plenty of conflicting info...he was a horny young man

Some of the women claiming harassment came back for more. And others had text messages showing it was consensual...but then they were a victim.
Once again, my perspective of Deshaun is just that, my perspective. I'm not trying to settle a court case. At the end of the day, as with many sexual assault cases against rich and famous men, they are settled out of court and the truth is never really revealed. The fact is, sexual assault cases are often the most (if not THE most) difficult cases to get convictions because they turn into "he said, she said" contests since sexual assaults take place away from witnesses and lack physical proof. And, even if witnesses are involved, convictions are still tough to come by (see the Brock Turner case). Maybe this WHOLE thing was a cash grab, but that to me seems just as less likely as Deshaun being completely innocent.

Also, the text messages you mention that imply the sexual acts were consensual were from just one of the accusers. There were also other text messages that were damning to Deshaun. People often think sexual predators ONLY commit predatory sexual behavior with every person they interact with sexually. That's just not the case. One false accuser doesn't mean the other accusers are false. Deshaun could have consensual sex with one woman and assault another. Also, you say that I've only read what the women and their lawyers have said, but, as you've stated, there's "conflicting info" (a.ka. he said, she said). So, have YOU read anything contrary to Deshaun's point of view? Or did you immediately presume his innocence as well?

You keep saying "young men make mistakes", "no one is perfect", and "there are plenty of things going on behind the scenes" as if that makes what Deshaun (or any criminal) does acceptable. It doesn't. He, at worst, sexually assaulted women or, at best, is a creep who committed a bunch of weird sexual acts that he has yet to own up to. This is despite Deshaun being famous, rich, and (at the time) well-loved. He could have walked into any restaurant, bar, or club and had women fawning over him, but, instead, he paid dozens of women to come to his home or secluded locations to "massage" him. That's just weird and creepy. Once again, regardless of his criminality, for a university and football program that places a big emphasis on high morals and upstanding character, is Deshuan representative of that?

Ultimately, l would ask you this: If you had a daughter who was a licensed, in-home PT, and Deshaun asked her to come to his home alone and provide him with physical therapy, would you be okay with her going?
 
Lost in all of this was Watson went public pretty much that he wanted out of Houston. All of a sudden, these charges start to appear against him. Texans Owner and his Neighbor is the Attorney.

Coincidence or not, it was all about $$$. I absolutely believe the Texans had a hand (no pun intended) in alot of that fiasco.
Eh, feel free to jump blindly into conspiracy theories, but I'm good.
 
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Once again, my perspective of Deshaun is just that, my perspective. I'm not trying to settle a court case. At the end of the day, as with many sexual assault cases against rich and famous men, they are settled out of court and the truth is never really revealed. The fact is, sexual assault cases are often the most (if not THE most) difficult cases to get convictions because they turn into "he said, she said" contests since sexual assaults take place away from witnesses and lack physical proof. And, even if witnesses are involved, convictions are still tough to come by (see the Brock Turner case). Maybe this WHOLE thing was a cash grab, but that to me seems just as less likely as Deshaun being completely innocent.

Also, the text messages you mention that imply the sexual acts were consensual were from just one of the accusers. There were also other text messages that were damning to Deshaun. People often think sexual predators ONLY commit predatory sexual behavior with every person they interact with sexually. That's just not the case. One false accuser doesn't mean the other accusers are false. Deshaun could have consensual sex with one woman and assault another. Also, you say that I've only read what the women and their lawyers have said, but, as you've stated, there's "conflicting info" (a.ka. he said, she said). So, have YOU read anything contrary to Deshaun's point of view? Or did you immediately presume his innocence as well?

You keep saying "young men make mistakes", "no one is perfect", and "there are plenty of things going on behind the scenes" as if that makes what Deshaun (or any criminal) does acceptable. It doesn't. He, at worst, sexually assaulted women or, at best, is a creep who committed a bunch of weird sexual acts that he has yet to own up to. This is despite Deshaun being famous, rich, and (at the time) well-loved. He could have walked into any restaurant, bar, or club and had women fawning over him, but, instead, he paid dozens of women to come to his home or secluded locations to "massage" him. That's just weird and creepy. Once again, regardless of his criminality, for a university and football program that places a big emphasis on high morals and upstanding character, is Deshuan representative of that?

Ultimately, l would ask you this: If you had a daughter who was a licensed, in-home PT, and Deshaun asked her to come to his home alone and provide him with physical therapy, would you be okay with her going?

I do have a daughter...and hopefully I raise her in a way that she can handle the situations and make smart grown up decisions. Without all the facts of the law suit or being put in that situation, I have no idea how I would feel.

But I will also say, I hope my daughter is smart enough and raised well enough to not give an impression that she is there for anything other than being a professional.

Serious question, b/c I do not know...how many in the law suit were professionals and weren't there plenty of professionals that defended him stating that he never approached them in such a way?

And also, why do PT at the house unless the patient cannot come to a rehab facility?

My first questions to my daughter would be:
1. Why is a player asking you to come to them?
2. Why is the player not using a PT that is hired and employed by the team?

But that is a big ole "what if" situation. Most sexual misconduct and harassment is easily proved. There phones, computers, and every electronical device is take immediately and completely gone through. It is not taken lightly....that is my point.

And lots of time there is not even bail allowed while they investigate because of suicide and flight risk for those who are truly guilty.

But the fact is DW is still welcome in Clemson and the people close to him have moved on. If he was guilty of such then he should rot in a prison cell but there did not seem to be enough there.
 
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I do have a daughter...and hopefully I raise her in a way that she can handle the situations and make smart grown up decisions. Without all the facts of the law suit or being put in that situation, I have no idea how I would feel.

But I will also say, I hope my daughter is smart enough and raised well enough to not give an impression that she is there for anything other than being a professional.

Serious question, b/c I do not know...how many in the law suit were professionals and weren't there plenty of professionals that defended him stating that he never approached them in such a way?

And also, why do PT at the house unless the patient cannot come to a rehab facility?

My first questions to my daughter would be:
1. Why is a player asking you to come to them?
2. Why is the player not using a PT that is hired and employed by the team?

But that is a big ole "what if" situation. Most sexual misconduct and harassment is easily proved. There phones, computers, and every electronical device is take immediately and completely gone through. It is not taken lightly....that is my point.

And lots of time there is not even bail allowed while they investigate because of suicide and flight risk for those who are truly guilty.

But the fact is DW is still welcome in Clemson and the people close to him have moved on. If he was guilty of such then he should rot in a prison cell but there did not seem to be enough there.
I agree that if I had a daughter, I would ultimately trust her to make the best decision for herself, but I'm asking you personally if YOU would feel comfortable or okay with her going to Deshaun's home alone to provide him services knowing what you know now. You're daughter, in this scenario, may still act on her own volition, but internally how would you feel about it?

From my understanding, about half of the accused were licensed and the other half were in school, in the process of getting licensed, or, at least, marketed themselves as massage therapists. And, once again, I willingly admit that Deshaun probably had a lot of consensual sexual acts with women or had massage sessions where no sexual acts were committed, but that does not mean he did not potentially commit sexual acts with other masseuses. Thieves don't rob every store they're in, serial killers don't kill ever person they interact with, and sexual predators don't sexually assault every person they're around.

I disagree that most sexual misconduct and harassment cases are easily proved because, as I said, they're more often than not "he said, she said" situations. As an accuser, you're lucky if you have phone, computer, or video evidence. My wife is a social worker and interacts with many sexual assault victims and the majority don't pursue any criminal action because they know there's little-to-no physical evidence. And, within the criminal court, the bar for conviction is "beyond reasonable doubt" which requires significant physical proof to convict. That's why lawyers often push victims to civil court cases since there's less of a burden of proof and victims can at least get some sort of justice or, at least, recompense from their situation.

Deshaun being welcomed in Clemson and people close to him moving on doesn't mean much. No one else was in the rooms where the alleged sexual assaults took place. It was just Deshuan and those women. So, for those who love and support Deshuan, why would they not continue to do so. Yet, once again, just because he's not in prison that doesn't mean he did do really weird and creepy stuff and everyone is just like "Oh well, he's Deshaun so it's all good".
 
It’ll be ok. One day you might get a handjob too. Just remember if all fails, oriental spas are just waiting for you!
So you think that’s all there was to his situation? At best he was a pervert who put women’s in uncomfortable sexual situations. Remember we probably only know of a handful of the people he harassed or propositioned.
 
I’m not going to go down the path of debating whether or not Deshaun actually committed a crime or not. I’ve done that before and it’s not worth the back and forth through this medium of discussion. With that said, in my opinion, I think it’s absolutely possible that 1) just because he didn’t get convicted doesn’t mean he isn’t guilty (guilty individuals go free all the time) and 2) regardless of his innocence, he did something that was weird, sexually deviant, and unbecoming of a “Clemson man”.

All of my opinions about Deshaun’s innocence aside, my biggest issue with these discussions around Deshaun is the hypocrisy and ignorance of those who adamantly support him. Everyone shouts forgive and forget, but, if we’re really being honest, if Deshaun didn’t succeed at Clemson (or if he did succeed at one of our rivals) no one would be defending him as they are here. In fact, I’d imagine most would be tearing him apart. Also, it’s not like Deshaun has acknowledged or apologized for what he did. Every action he’s done to “set things right” have been because his hand has been forced, not because he was willing. Finally, I thought Clemson is supposed to be different than other universities and football programs by the way of our culture and development of young men. If Clemson is who we claim to be, we can’t have some who half the country believes is a sexual predator representing the university (whether that’s proven legally or in the court of public opinion). You can’t just lower our standard because someone threw a football well while he was at Clemson.
You don't have to go down the path of debating whether a crime was committed or not. Two separate grand juries received all of the evidence and both declined to press criminal charges. Being a young, handsome, rich athlete hitting up Instagram "models" doesn't make someone a sexual deviant. As soon as two grand juries declined to press charges, this became another tale of the gold digging hoe. A tale as old as time. There's a reason all of these women initially filed in civil court, they are after the money.
 
Not gonna lie - Pickett’s fake slide play while at Pitt has me where I won’t be happy until his head is in one place and the rest of him in another.

For some reason that triggers me.
I really thought it was me. Maybe I'm bitter cause he beat us when we were at our absolute worst over the previous 10 seasons but when he did that I was on team F this f'ing guy haha
 
You don't have to go down the path of debating whether a crime was committed or not. Two separate grand juries received all of the evidence and both declined to press criminal charges. Being a young, handsome, rich athlete hitting up Instagram "models" doesn't make someone a sexual deviant. As soon as two grand juries declined to press charges, this became another tale of the gold digging hoe. A tale as old as time. There's a reason all of these women initially filed in civil court, they are after the money.
"... another tale of the gold digging hoe. A tale as old as time. There's a reason all of these women initially filed in civil court, they are after the money."

This tells me all I need to know about you. You're just spouting what every unapologetic Deshaun supporter has said. And you say it with the same crass, sexist, and callous words that many who wholly brush off what Deshaun did have said. It's not enough that Deshaun is proven innocent in criminal court (which, as I've stated above, is a difficult place to get sexual assault convictions), it is that EVERY woman involved in the case - who is risking their career, privacy, and public derision - is a "gold-digging hoe" who is only "after the money."

At the end of the day, this is a "he said, she said" situation. The grand juries probably looked at the "hard" evidence (which was little because all we really have is two people's words against each other - granted it's 20+ women's words vs. one man's words) and decided it would be difficult to pursue criminal charges. As I stated above, this is the problem with sexual assault cases. If a man sexually assaults a woman in a private setting - with no physical evidence (like videos, texts, rape kit test, etc) or witnesses - then it really just comes down to which person you believe more. This is why the civil court is really the best option for many victims of sexual assault because the burden of proof is less.

Regardless, what we do know about Deshaun's situation is 1) Deshaun asked dozens of women (who, despite you're crass and baseless perspective, were mostly professionals) to meet with him in private when he did not have to or need to meet with them in private (I'm sure the Texans had plenty of full-time PTs and masseuses on staff) and 2) Deshaun committed sexual acts to them (masturbating on them) or with them (touching them or committing sexual acts). These things Deshaun would admit to. So, once again, at best, Deshaun is a creep and weirdo who should not be welcomed as representative of Clemson, or, at worst, he is a sexual assaulter who got off free because of a lack of available evidence.

If it really is a "he said, she said" situation (which at the end of the day I think it is) then it comes down to who you believe more. If you want to believe one man's word vs. 20+ women's words, and if you think ALL of the accusers were just "hoes" looking for a cash grab, so be it.
 
"... another tale of the gold digging hoe. A tale as old as time. There's a reason all of these women initially filed in civil court, they are after the money."

This tells me all I need to know about you. You're just spouting what every unapologetic Deshaun supporter has said. And you say it with the same crass, sexist, and callous words that many who wholly brush off what Deshaun did have said. It's not enough that Deshaun is proven innocent in criminal court (which, as I've stated above, is a difficult place to get sexual assault convictions), it is that EVERY woman involved in the case - who is risking their career, privacy, and public derision - is a "gold-digging hoe" who is only "after the money."

At the end of the day, this is a "he said, she said" situation. The grand juries probably looked at the "hard" evidence (which was little because all we really have is two people's words against each other - granted it's 20+ women's words vs. one man's words) and decided it would be difficult to pursue criminal charges. As I stated above, this is the problem with sexual assault cases. If a man sexually assaults a woman in a private setting - with no physical evidence (like videos, texts, rape kit test, etc) or witnesses - then it really just comes down to which person you believe more. This is why the civil court is really the best option for many victims of sexual assault because the burden of proof is less.

Regardless, what we do know about Deshaun's situation is 1) Deshaun asked dozens of women (who, despite you're crass and baseless perspective, were mostly professionals) to meet with him in private when he did not have to or need to meet with them in private (I'm sure the Texans had plenty of full-time PTs and masseuses on staff) and 2) Deshaun committed sexual acts to them (masturbating on them) or with them (touching them or committing sexual acts). These things Deshaun would admit to. So, once again, at best, Deshaun is a creep and weirdo who should not be welcomed as representative of Clemson, or, at worst, he is a sexual assaulter who got off free because of a lack of available evidence.

If it really is a "he said, she said" situation (which at the end of the day I think it is) then it comes down to who you believe more. If you want to believe one man's word vs. 20+ women's words, and if you think ALL of the accusers were just "hoes" looking for a cash grab, so be it.
Stones stones stones
 
You don't have to go down the path of debating whether a crime was committed or not. Two separate grand juries received all of the evidence and both declined to press criminal charges. Being a young, handsome, rich athlete hitting up Instagram masseuses and models to give you "massages," jerk you off, finger your butt hole, unexpectedly masturbate in front of them, and generally make them feel uncomfortable with your sexual advances makes someone a sexual deviant. As soon as two grand juries declined to press charges, this became another tale of the gold digging hoe. A tale as old as time. There's a reason all of these women initially filed in civil court, they are after the money.
FIFY
 
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What decision is that? The decision to get jacked off? Damn what a terrible person.
handle checks out
Jack Black Smile GIF
 
Not gonna lie - Pickett’s fake slide play while at Pitt has me where I won’t be happy until his head is in one place and the rest of him in another.

For some reason that triggers me.

Crazy. One of my favorite plays ever. So smart, nothing wrong with exploiting loopholes in the rulebook.
 
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I get all that’s gone on.

But he doesn’t project a good vibe now either. Getting unsportsmanlike penalties. Looks a little disinterested.

Just so different than his days at Clemson.
This is wonderful banter about his past transgressions and how it relates to his toxicity, the bible, massage therapists, daughters, etc. etc.

But regarding his football play, DW4 definitely does not look the same. Yes, he has a shaky OLine in Cleveland and the loss of Chubb is brutal, but his overall teams were far less talented in Houston and he overcame that with incredible individual play. The Cleveland defense is nasty and can carry a team in many games to a victory, but thus far DW4 has been a negating liability with inconsistent execution, costly turnovers and composure issues.

Right now he is an average NFL QB and that's being kind. The Browns did not mortgage their entire organization for an average QB. I hope he gets on track for the sake of himself, the organization and the city of Cleveland.
 
No offfense, but I sure wish he had gone to literally any other franchise…Browns are cursed

I think you might have a little misunderstanding with everything that went down with DW’s “situation” because you sure don’t seem to know what you’re talking about
Believe me, I can’t disagree. No offense taken.
 
I’m not going to go down the path of debating whether or not Deshaun actually committed a crime or not. I’ve done that before and it’s not worth the back and forth through this medium of discussion. With that said, in my opinion, I think it’s absolutely possible that 1) just because he didn’t get convicted doesn’t mean he isn’t guilty (guilty individuals go free all the time) and 2) regardless of his innocence, he did something that was weird, sexually deviant, and unbecoming of a “Clemson man”.

All of my opinions about Deshaun’s innocence aside, my biggest issue with these discussions around Deshaun is the hypocrisy and ignorance of those who adamantly support him. Everyone shouts forgive and forget, but, if we’re really being honest, if Deshaun didn’t succeed at Clemson (or if he did succeed at one of our rivals) no one would be defending him as they are here. In fact, I’d imagine most would be tearing him apart. Also, it’s not like Deshaun has acknowledged or apologized for what he did. Every action he’s done to “set things right” have been because his hand has been forced, not because he was willing. Finally, I thought Clemson is supposed to be different than other universities and football programs by the way of our culture and development of young men. If Clemson is who we claim to be, we can’t have some who half the country believes is a sexual predator representing the university (whether that’s proven legally or in the court of public opinion). You can’t just lower our standard because someone threw a football well while he was at Clemson.

"... another tale of the gold digging hoe. A tale as old as time. There's a reason all of these women initially filed in civil court, they are after the money."

This tells me all I need to know about you. You're just spouting what every unapologetic Deshaun supporter has said. And you say it with the same crass, sexist, and callous words that many who wholly brush off what Deshaun did have said. It's not enough that Deshaun is proven innocent in criminal court (which, as I've stated above, is a difficult place to get sexual assault convictions), it is that EVERY woman involved in the case - who is risking their career, privacy, and public derision - is a "gold-digging hoe" who is only "after the money."

At the end of the day, this is a "he said, she said" situation. The grand juries probably looked at the "hard" evidence (which was little because all we really have is two people's words against each other - granted it's 20+ women's words vs. one man's words) and decided it would be difficult to pursue criminal charges. As I stated above, this is the problem with sexual assault cases. If a man sexually assaults a woman in a private setting - with no physical evidence (like videos, texts, rape kit test, etc) or witnesses - then it really just comes down to which person you believe more. This is why the civil court is really the best option for many victims of sexual assault because the burden of proof is less.

Regardless, what we do know about Deshaun's situation is 1) Deshaun asked dozens of women (who, despite you're crass and baseless perspective, were mostly professionals) to meet with him in private when he did not have to or need to meet with them in private (I'm sure the Texans had plenty of full-time PTs and masseuses on staff) and 2) Deshaun committed sexual acts to them (masturbating on them) or with them (touching them or committing sexual acts). These things Deshaun would admit to. So, once again, at best, Deshaun is a creep and weirdo who should not be welcomed as representative of Clemson, or, at worst, he is a sexual assaulter who got off free because of a lack of available evidence.

If it really is a "he said, she said" situation (which at the end of the day I think it is) then it comes down to who you believe more. If you want to believe one man's word vs. 20+ women's words, and if you think ALL of the accusers were just "hoes" looking for a cash grab, so be it.
1.He's not admitted to madturbating on them
2.lawyers don't push people to civil court because a lower statute, they do it because there is potential for a settlement/payoff
3. I mean yes it's a little weird that he would ask a whole bunch of masseuses for hjs, since he could fvck just about any single woman in America but why do you care
4.assumed innocent until PROVEN guilty

You @Dbatz @TigerJR would feel at home in 1950sussr where the mear accusation meant gulags or death penalty
 
Once again, my perspective of Deshaun is just that, my perspective. I'm not trying to settle a court case. At the end of the day, as with many sexual assault cases against rich and famous men, they are settled out of court and the truth is never really revealed. The fact is, sexual assault cases are often the most (if not THE most) difficult cases to get convictions because they turn into "he said, she said" contests since sexual assaults take place away from witnesses and lack physical proof. And, even if witnesses are involved, convictions are still tough to come by (see the Brock Turner case). Maybe this WHOLE thing was a cash grab, but that to me seems just as less likely as Deshaun being completely innocent.

Also, the text messages you mention that imply the sexual acts were consensual were from just one of the accusers. There were also other text messages that were damning to Deshaun. People often think sexual predators ONLY commit predatory sexual behavior with every person they interact with sexually. That's just not the case. One false accuser doesn't mean the other accusers are false. Deshaun could have consensual sex with one woman and assault another. Also, you say that I've only read what the women and their lawyers have said, but, as you've stated, there's "conflicting info" (a.ka. he said, she said). So, have YOU read anything contrary to Deshaun's point of view? Or did you immediately presume his innocence as well?

You keep saying "young men make mistakes", "no one is perfect", and "there are plenty of things going on behind the scenes" as if that makes what Deshaun (or any criminal) does acceptable. It doesn't. He, at worst, sexually assaulted women or, at best, is a creep who committed a bunch of weird sexual acts that he has yet to own up to. This is despite Deshaun being famous, rich, and (at the time) well-loved. He could have walked into any restaurant, bar, or club and had women fawning over him, but, instead, he paid dozens of women to come to his home or secluded locations to "massage" him. That's just weird and creepy. Once again, regardless of his criminality, for a university and football program that places a big emphasis on high morals and upstanding character, is Deshuan representative of that?

Ultimately, l would ask you this: If you had a daughter who was a licensed, in-home PT, and Deshaun asked her to come to his home alone and provide him with physical therapy, would you be okay with her going?
HE WAS NOT EVER CHARGED!!!

You are mistaking CIVIL cases which are for monetary damages with criminal cases. Several grand juries declined to bring charges which is incredibly rare. That should scream to you that the evidence for a criminal trial was very very weak.

The civil attorney went public recruiting other women to come forward to get a piece of the money. A settlement in this type of case usually results in a 30+% attorney fee.

The facts of Deshaun's situation are quite different than you are trying to make them appear. Civil juries only have to find that it's more likely than not that someone committed a wrong. They are not held to the reasonable doubt standard that criminal juries are bound by. Deshaun could have lost a ton of $$ in a civil trial because of that standard. This is why he finally settled. Sadly, he probably should have settled years earlier rather than try to clear his name because of how the media and public react to these things.
 
the refs had it out for him. somehow missed an egregious facemask on him but called him for it. never seen a ball carrier called for that until he was. couldn't get a pi call all night. actually impressive he didn't lose his sht on them all things considered. people need to get over what happened. is he a saint? no. but at the end of the day he got his wrench rubbed, the narrative has become it being something far darker. i can't relate, and i'm sure there's people that have a strong personal moral opposition to that, but everyone is different...it is what it is. get over it.
 
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I’m not going to go down the path of debating whether or not Deshaun actually committed a crime or not. I’ve done that before and it’s not worth the back and forth through this medium of discussion. With that said, in my opinion, I think it’s absolutely possible that 1) just because he didn’t get convicted doesn’t mean he isn’t guilty (guilty individuals go free all the time) and 2) regardless of his innocence, he did something that was weird, sexually deviant, and unbecoming of a “Clemson man”.

All of my opinions about Deshaun’s innocence aside, my biggest issue with these discussions around Deshaun is the hypocrisy and ignorance of those who adamantly support him. Everyone shouts forgive and forget, but, if we’re really being honest, if Deshaun didn’t succeed at Clemson (or if he did succeed at one of our rivals) no one would be defending him as they are here. In fact, I’d imagine most would be tearing him apart. Also, it’s not like Deshaun has acknowledged or apologized for what he did. Every action he’s done to “set things right” have been because his hand has been forced, not because he was willing. Finally, I thought Clemson is supposed to be different than other universities and football programs by the way of our culture and development of young men. If Clemson is who we claim to be, we can’t have some who half the country believes is a sexual predator representing the university (whether that’s proven legally or in the court of public opinion). You can’t just lower our standard because someone threw a football well while he was at Clemson.
Actually it does mean he is not guilty if he wasn’t convicted. Literally that is the definition.
 
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1.He's not admitted to madturbating on them
2.lawyers don't push people to civil court because a lower statute, they do it because there is potential for a settlement/payoff
3. I mean yes it's a little weird that he would ask a whole bunch of masseuses for hjs, since he could fvck just about any single woman in America but why do you care
4.assumed innocent until PROVEN guilty

You @Dbatz @TigerJR would feel at home in 1950sussr where the mear accusation meant gulags or death penalty
The entire country Dems and repubs disagree with you. But they are not blinded by what he did on the field for Clemson. If this were Clowney y’all would be wanting to hang him by his nuts at the county courthouse. There was more than this. When he left Clemson you could see by who he was hanging with that he was not what Clemson fans thought he was. We have had a lot of great athletes represent Clemson well in the NFL and in life. To this point in his career Deshaun is not one of them.
 
The entire country Dems and repubs disagree with you. But they are not blinded by what he did on the field for Clemson. If this were Clowney y’all would be wanting to hang him by his nuts at the county courthouse. There was more than this. When he left Clemson you could see by who he was hanging with that he was not what Clemson fans thought he was. We have had a lot of great athletes represent Clemson well in the NFL and in life. To this point in his career Deshaun is not one of them.

Why does any fan ever think they know what kind of person the athletes are? They’re entertainers who happened to elect to play for the school that many of us attended.
 
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