UVA President Out
- Thread starter CoffeeIsForClosers
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Edit: I wrote a long response about academic freedom and the capitulation of universities like Columbia and now UVA, but I’ll spare others that and simply give this TL;DR response.
The war on higher education, and using the justice department as a cudgel towards those ends, is a scary place to be. The fact that the president of such a prominent university was forced to step down as the only way of resolving this lawsuit provides the federal government a drastic amount of power to be wielded.
The war on higher education, and using the justice department as a cudgel towards those ends, is a scary place to be. The fact that the president of such a prominent university was forced to step down as the only way of resolving this lawsuit provides the federal government a drastic amount of power to be wielded.
Fundamentally agree.
However, if a public institution isn’t following a federal ruling, how do you resolve otherwise?
Their AD is likely on borrowed time given the disaster on her watch, after the new President is in place.
Like you, I agree with your statement in principle. That said, there are oftentimes intermediary steps taken to resolve such disputes between the government and public institutions. Being intimately familiar with higher education administration as a faculty member at a large public university, I can speak from experience that requiring a president to step down is a step you don’t reach until all other avenues have been exhausted. Now, I am not sure the steps taken in this case to get to this point, as the article doesn’t lay it all out. However, given the track record of this current administration’s approach to higher education, it wouldn’t surprise me if things jumped from A to Z pretty quickly.
You receive federal funds, you abide by federal laws.
You dont get to have your cake and eat it too.
I respect higher ed. Does higher ed respect the public? These scales have been heavily tilted toward INSTITUTIONS and not the public it’s supposed to serve. Sure, that’s Pollyanna but the people have had enough of the jerking around. They’ve been gaslighting people long enough.
It’s time to refocus on Enlightenment.
Diversity of opinion, not diversity as defined by a select few.
Signed,
An Actual Real Liberal
I don’t disagree. All public institutions are subject to federal laws. Simply saying that there is room for nuance in many of these arrangements, and oftentimes that nuance is lost.
The nuance is lost because self policing behavior is pushed aside for agenda driven outcomes. You are either for all peoples, or you’re not.
Let me put it this way, public universities shouldn’t have outsized “reputations”.
I would say the war on American students and youth by higher education via indoctrination is even a scarier place.
What's amazing is he was UVA's 9th President in its 206 year history.
That’s likely in reference to my initial post where I stated the “war on higher education” which, to your point, was a bit hyperbolic. I was simply meaning that there is currently a target on the institution of higher education, which has indeed lost some of its original mission to serve as a marketplace for ideas and to cultivate an ability to reason and think independently and critically. Too often we tell people what to think rather than reaching them how to think. I believe that is a fair criticism, where we have not maintained our responsibility to the public at large.
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I understand your viewpoint (in theory) but how long has liberal ideology been allowed to permeate higher education? 50 years? Federal funding comes with adherence to federal laws. DEI is a violation of the Civil Rights Act.
Colleges and universities have been teaching students WHAT to think and indoctrinating said students for 50 years.
I think the indoctrination is overstated.
The greater sin is the lack of skin in the game by universities, colleges, or tech schools. They became pass throughs for public dollar’s with little incentive or responsibility to outcomes. Students and taxpayers had to carry the burden of publicly funded education alone.
That being said as our population grows we cannot stop investing in educating our workforce, our entrepreneurs and our inventors. Unless we stop progressing or turn over our labor force to immigrants.
The greater sin is the lack of skin in the game by universities, colleges, or tech schools. They became pass throughs for public dollar’s with little incentive or responsibility to outcomes. Students and taxpayers had to carry the burden of publicly funded education alone.
That being said as our population grows we cannot stop investing in educating our workforce, our entrepreneurs and our inventors. Unless we stop progressing or turn over our labor force to immigrants.
Please provide evidence of indoctrination besides the normal propagandized narrative that all Americans endure?
Still trying to figure out what is conservative about the federal government coercing a president of a state universiry, who is already responsible to a board of regents, to resign over purported ideological differences.
In many ways this goes back to the push to make higher education more widely available to everyone through programs like the GI Bill and the provision of federal aid. This created an incentive structure for universities to admit many more students to maximize federal funding, which inevitably led to a watering down of instruction. We went from a system that catered to a select few to one that was forced to broaden its base in a very short period of time. This forced a standardization of instruction that meant a shift from a model cultivating critical thinking to one that is easier to assess. I do think “indoctrination” is a bit strong, but some faculty do have a preferred perspective they want students to know.
I personally have made it a goal of mine that students leave my classroom not knowing my political leanings. My job is to present the information in an unbiased way so that students can grapple with the material and arrive at their own conclusions, which can then be debated and discussed with others.
I don’t want it to come across as me viewing higher education as a bastion of excellence that isn’t to be questioned. I have many concerns about the future of higher ed. We have a responsibility to the public, as has been stated. I just think that targeting it in the manner that is currently being done is dangerous.
Sounds like you're confused about who is waging war on higher education.
If anything, the indoctrination is understated. Check out the demographics of the average Zohran Mumdumi voter...yikes
And that’s the respect of diversity of opinion.
(Not you but people need to read what a LIBERAL really is. The term has been abused and hijacked by leftists.)
Liberal
- willing to respect or accept behavior or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas.
2.
relating to or denoting a political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise.
So we should make a hypothesis on national education based on evidence from an election in arguably the bluest of cities?
I don’t want to speak for you or others but I would wager we were all a little more liberal in our college years. Alas, don’t we all tend to grow more conservative as we have more to lose?
I would not call that indoctrination more so kids being kids. But it could also be naivety on my part.
uva administration as a whole is an mess and you are right the AD is on thin ice .
Well I'm just glad we have an uber qualified Sec of Education like Linda McMahon who has never been affiliated with any kind of dysfunctional organization at the helm. I feel better already. Yay education!
Come on WWE gave us Bobby the Brain Heenan and Lanny The Genius Poffo
And
Chris Harvard
That’s the best point that has been made thus far. This thread went way off the rails.
I’d imagine anyone in higher ed leadership right now is feeling the heat….even at Clemson where they are also under investigation by the DOJ.
Much respect. Totally agree.
Now, how do we actually re-establish the primary purpose?
Absent of authentic action by the stewards at universities, pressure is applied.
You wanna get people’s attention, then withhold the same lifeblood that allows them the luxury to operate: THE PEOPLES MONEY.
FTR they did not have a president until 1904. They were governed directly by the Board of Visitors before then.
I think both conservatives and liberals would both agree that higher education needs reform. We've established that in this thread, but the disagreement is is how and why. Although, I think both sides would agree costs and the entrenchment of academia are major issues.
Just speaking to the CS courses I had at Clemson, I had some awesome professors, but it was shocking how out of touch some of the classes were to what we needed to be prepared for working in tech. Now some of that is theory vs practice, but the gap was far too large in my opinion. And that has nothing to do with politics but sheds some lights on the hurdles of academia.
Just speaking to the CS courses I had at Clemson, I had some awesome professors, but it was shocking how out of touch some of the classes were to what we needed to be prepared for working in tech. Now some of that is theory vs practice, but the gap was far too large in my opinion. And that has nothing to do with politics but sheds some lights on the hurdles of academia.
George Wallace said the same thing when he stood in that University of Alabama doorway in the early 60’s.
Please provide evidence of indoctrination besides the normal propagandized narrative that all Americans endure?
wow! That’s a very informative response. How is watching the news “evidence”? Oh, you mean the propaganda machine of FOX News?
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