Added stress to the health care system is all realtive. SC was running at 50% capacity of it beds and ventilators. Sure, certain hot spots are stressed to the max. The majority of the country is not.
Voronavirus Death Rate in US continues to climb
- Thread starter JAMCRACKER99
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Added stress to the health care system is all realtive. SC was running at 50% capacity of it beds and ventilators. Sure, certain hot spots are stressed to the max. The majority of the country is not.
Yes, in something like this the % game has to be played. You cant sacrifice 90% of the population for 10%. It's a no win situation. No one is saying there is an easy answer to this, but at some point the needs of the many outweighs the needs of the few or the one.
It is not that resources are shifting. It is that most aren’t going to their family practices, dentist offices, etc. because they are so freaked out. I don’t believe that many fully comprehend the damage that is occurring in many areas that they don’t even think about.
Not sure where you got your 80,000 from? Here's the CDC's statement for 2018-2019 season and there were approx. 34,000 deaths in ONE YEAR. We're approaching 22,000 in 2.5 weeks.
The New York Health counsel issued a statement on April 6th that an estimate 180-195 people were dying DAILY at home from the coronavirus, and were not being counted as coronavirus deaths because they didn't have the capacity to test. I don't think the death numbers are being overreported. Not to mention, the same can be said for the flu killing people that were already very sick.
The only reason that you're saying looking at the mortality rate right now is foolish is because you have been a big proponent of the mortality number going down with increased number of tests. Well, got news for you: I have watched the numbers for the world and the US since the beginning of March. The mortality rate has continued to go up. The world is now at 6.1% and the US is now at 3.9%. In March they were at 5% and 1% respectively. Do I think the mortality rate will end up at 3%? No. But it's not going to be below 1% like a bunch of you bozos have said.
No. If you believe that propaganda, you may want to have a reality check.
Why is it the US is the only country in the world that will - not only allow but suggest/promote- a 95 year old on death watch to have a 90k dollar procedure to ensure life for another 6 months? Part of the insurance conundrum in this country is that we, as a society, value the end-life way more than any other country and way more than it makes any financial sense. Its financially irresponsible to spend 100k on someone who is at death's door, but we do it repeatedly.
Who are you to decide what 6 months of life is worth to a person? Maybe to some people, it's worth 90k. Everyone should be allowed to make that decision for themselves based on their financial situation.
If we sit and don't do anything, the coronavirus will kill 1-3 million.
We do not know much about the coronavirus responsible for Covid-19. I hope all the people who are sure it's like the flu and only people with comorbidity factors are likely to die are correct.
What we do not know are whether or not this coronavirus goes dormant in the body for years and then re-erupts. We do not know why certain young people with no comorbities get so very sick and then die. We do not know with much assurance that an individual can only be sick from this disease more than once.
What we do know is that the 2009 H1N1 flu was a raging pandemic. We do know that counting only confirmed cases, in the first 100 days of H1N1 43,677 illnesses were reported along with 302 deaths. In 22 fewer days, Covid 19 has infected 11 times as many people and killed 60 times as many.
I really hope those who say the present danger is overstated and overhyped are correct. We do not know that now.
What we do not know are whether or not this coronavirus goes dormant in the body for years and then re-erupts. We do not know why certain young people with no comorbities get so very sick and then die. We do not know with much assurance that an individual can only be sick from this disease more than once.
What we do know is that the 2009 H1N1 flu was a raging pandemic. We do know that counting only confirmed cases, in the first 100 days of H1N1 43,677 illnesses were reported along with 302 deaths. In 22 fewer days, Covid 19 has infected 11 times as many people and killed 60 times as many.
I really hope those who say the present danger is overstated and overhyped are correct. We do not know that now.
I don’t know. But total deaths supposedly flat March 2020 vs March 2019. Not sure I believe it. It was on a generic news broadcast not Fox News or CNN. I plan to look it up.
But it is fact that some dying from this were going to die this year anyway. Who knows how many? And that untested pneumonia deaths are included in totals. Maybe they all had it.
We can’t ever know. We aren’t testing those not sick. Nobody did, not even S. Korea. It will be somewhere between the 1% in SoKo and Italy. Maybe 2. Maybe 9
The fact that some are rationalizing death on this day in particular tells me all I need to know about you as a person.
I'm not the most religious person and have my vices but today of all days HE IS Risen!!
I'm not the most religious person and have my vices but today of all days HE IS Risen!!
Very fair— also I wasn’t clear— I was trying to make allusion to a circumstance where we did no social distancing or control measures— the medical system would be killed
Let me restate: no other single cause of death is currently killing 2000+ people per day in the US. You slice and dice that however it makes you feel better.
In one of my earlier posts in relating how we get numb to the deaths around us for different reasons....
Nearly 1.25 million people are killed in car accidents each year. That means, on average, auto accidents cause 3,287 deaths per day(that is a huge number). An additional 20-50 million people are injured or disabled. More than half of all road traffic deaths occur among young adults ages 15-44.
When auto accidents become contagious let me know.
Yes. The reported mortality rate is very distorted because we don’t actually how many people have actually recovered from it and didn’t know they had it. We could play this shutdown game for a long time and really not accomplish much. The real issues are in big cities where it’s hard to social distance and many of the multi-story apartment buildings have shared heating and cooling systems. Watch the videos coming from NYC and in spite of the danger folks are coming and going, many without masks and are nowhere close to the 6’ space recommended. There is a reason why so many are getting the virus. Hopefully one of these experimental drugs will be the cure so things can open back up. If not, maybe a phased approach where the least impacted areas open up first?
It is accurate. Literally do a quick google search and its fairly easy to find that i formation.
80,000 people died from the flu and the nation kept going, the economy kept going, and the system in general kept going. Another thing ill say is that the world of data with viruses/disease seems to be wildly inaccurate from one source to the next. Which matches up with what we are seeing now with Corona.
Do we ever want to see someone pass from Flu, Cancer, Malaria, Ebola, etc.... NO and the people claiming the posters on here discussing the comparisons between other viruses and our strategy against those are not some heartless morons. They are literally trying to save millions of lives, but you wont listen. You all know we cannot keep this stay at home garbage going for much longer. You know at some point our nation will crumble if you keep down this path and then you will be worrying about 7 million deaths and not 60,000.
You have to understand that simple basic concept. You CANNOT keep banking on the govt to print more money and provide for your family for 2 years....and now what are we going to do in a bad flu year when 100,000 lives are claimed. We are setting a precedent, one that many do not agree with INCLUDING some medical professionals that I know personally who are now being furloughed. MEDICAL FRONT LINE workers being laid off in a time of pandemic. Does that make any sense whatsoever to you?
That's worldwide. In the U.S. last year, there were about 40K traffic deaths
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate
That works out to about 109 per day, which is less than 2000 per day.
I really don't know what your point is. Are you saying 2000 people per day aren't dying in the U.S. from COVID-19? Or that it doesn't matter? Or that we shouldn't care?
I would be stunned if it has passed cardiac. Those numbers are huge. But there is overlap.
The flu argument is old and tired.. If there was a vaccination now for the coronavirus like there is for the flu nothing would be happening...
Choose a relevant argument.
Correct. That is why we couldn’t do nothing and let everybody get it at once and be done with it. The death rate would be incredibly high even for the young because the health care system would be overwhelmed and most would get no care.
It would have to be much more effective than the flu vaccine. Like Polio. This is just so different from the flu. Nobody is asymptomatic with flu. I think the asymptomatic deal is the most dangerous aspect of this deal.
He's a troll. No rational person would repeatedly try to sell the same egregious hot-takes on an online forum.
So it's not fair to ask why the smokers and fatties are so worried about their health now when they haven't been for most of their lives? People make choices, and those choices have consequences. I save my sympathy for the doctors and nurses getting sick from this.
There lies the problem. Herd immunity works best when 80% of society is healthy, not the other way around
The death rates may well be lower. Iceland has tested 10% of their population and believes fully 1/2 of their cases are asymptomatic. But even with that, there is no denying that in less than 3 months from the first case in the country, and with most of the country partly "shut down" for weeks now, and with many socially distancing even before then, it is still the leading cause of death in the country and has overrun NYC's health care system. No "just the flu" has EVER done that. You may want to see Scott Gottlieb's podcast where he believes that without modern medicine this would be worse than the Spanish Flu. Dr. Gottlieb is a conservative and recent FDA Commissioner. He has been on this since January, but has largely been ignored to all of our detriment. See the video below for how quickly CV19 ran up the charts.
It is a legitimate question as to how long economically we can stay partly "shut down" and whether it is worth the cost, but playing down the virus is not accurate as best I can tell. Just my two cents.
https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/1812248/
See the video below on how quickly it made it to the top of the charts. This was up to a week ago. It is presently killing over 2,000 per day. https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/1812248/
Agreed. Which is why "opening up" the economy will not promptly lead us back to the same economy without effective treatment or a vaccine.
IMO, older folks (and many middle age folks and some younger folks) likely will not be getting knee replacements, dental work, etc. for the foreseeable future. Likewise as to haircuts, maid service, nail treatments, car detailing, dining out, clubbing, vacationing, etc. To a degree, it makes the argument about "opening up" irrelevant as many will self isolate even without government guidance until they determine in their judgment it is safe to do otherwise.
The world is now different for at least 2 years (the earliest apparent realistic date for a vaccine based on an interview of Scott Gottlieb I just listened to) and perhaps permanently in a number of ways. The presumed resurgence this fall is very worrisome to me personally unless we establish a massive testing, contact tracing, and isolating system quickly. I have seen nothing to date that makes me think this is a national priority.
Do we ever test the entire population for anything? There are tons of people that have the flu in a year that don't go the doctor. The only way we have to compare them is based on who gets tested because the rest is based on assumptions and guesses.
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