What happened to leaving abortion up to the states?
- Thread starter fcctiger12
- Start date
Have long said Lindsey is a dumbass, this further proves my point
Upon quick read, this only limits abortion after 15 weeks and makes exceptions for rape, incest, health, etc. Isn’t this where most people are? It’s where the vast majority of Europe is legally, for example.
I agree on Fluff Bottom lynz but if you’re responding to the linked tweets, I would not take them at face value
It's more about the degradation of trust. They keep pushing the boundaries, so what's next?
“Yes they have a majority on the court but they won’t overturn Roe.”
“Yes they overturned Roe but they won’t ban abortion without exceptions for rape.”
“Yes they banned abortion without exceptions for rape but they won’t try to ban abortion nationwide.”
And now they are.
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Then let's pass a national law that restricts abortion after 15 weeks and get rid of all of the stupid shit that state governments have put out there.
The entire argument from the right has been that it should be up to the states. Setting national rules is quite a change from the words spoken after Dobbs.
As a reasonable Republican, I would've hoped that you would have seen this for the hypocrisy that it is.
This 100%.
At this point, why should we trust that their national ban will have exceptions for rape and incest? For the most part, the red states have not included these exceptions. And most red states are going for total ban to 6 weeks.
How can anyone trust the GOP anymore?
Clarify the bold part. I spend all of 30 seconds skimming the article, but the proposal doesn't seem to be to ban abortion nationwide. It's to limit the types of abortion (post 15 weeks with no rape/incest/health factors).
This seems to be in line with the thinking of the majority of Americans. The vast majority of Europe also limits voluntary abortion between 12-14 weeks, so it seems to be in line with our global peers. So what is the issue here? Why can the sides work together to propose moderate legislation along these lines?
I'm fine with your first line.
Not the entire argument. A major argument was that legislation shouldn't be created by the Supreme Court. That's what happened in Roe. From a purely legal standpoint, striking it was probably the right call. It's then up to Congress to pass a law to legislate the issue.
Then work with them on a bill. Legal abortion prior to 15 weeks with provisions for abortions after 15 weeks seems like a super reasonable opening volley from the GOP.
Easy, Republican's argued this should strictly be a state's rights issue. They claimed they weren't going for a national ban and many on this board argued the same. I completely agree with @fcctiger12 that if this preempts the draconian red state laws, I believe most American's could go along with it. But at this point it's hard to trust what Republicans say and if they regain power, what comes next? Will this be the end of it?
Why? Dems want to pass a bill that ensures the right to same sex marriage and can't get any Republicans on board, even though most claim to support same sex marriage. What evidence is there that Republicans will actually compromise on "social" issues?
Abortion just like Social Justice issues are boutique issues that largely do not matter ... they are issues that Politicians use to divide us and distract us for what really matters.
National debt is +$30 trillion and climbing
Inflation is out of control
We are in a recession and our country leadership has never been weaker ....
If abortion, identity politics, or social justice bullshit is driving to the polls, youre part of the problem.
National debt is +$30 trillion and climbing
Inflation is out of control
We are in a recession and our country leadership has never been weaker ....
If abortion, identity politics, or social justice bullshit is driving to the polls, youre part of the problem.
That is not accurate. 60% of Americans think abortion should be legal in ALL or MOST cases. This bill, as proposed, does not meet that criteria.
Also, based on that article:
The rape exemption requires that patients prove they’ve either sought counseling or medical treatment or reported the assault to law enforcement or a government agency. The life exemption excludes patients who have a life-threatening mental illness.
That is a lot to ask of a rape or especially an incest victim. There should be no stipulations. None.
But again I ask, why should we trust the GOP at this point on anything related to abortion?
That is the beautiful thing about America. Pricks like you don't get to tell other people why they should vote or what they should care about.
Tell that bullshit to a woman who was raped.
Tell that bullshit to a woman who is bleeding internally from a miscarriage but cannot get a doctor to help her because the doctor is afraid the government might decide that the pregnancy could have been viable, and then the doctor goes to jail.
I think those women would tell you to Fck right the hell off.
The cynic in me says, because every time there is compromise the left takes that inch and turns it into a mile ..
Abortion was supposed to be "Legal, Safe, and Rare" ... that turned into abortions anytime anywhere, my body my choice
Same sex marriage was supposed to be two people of the legal age of consent should be allowed to marry ....which the overwhelming majority of Americans agree with ... that turned into men can be women women can be men. Men can menstruate and have babies.
Have the Dem draft their Bill with protections for churches who dont agree with same sex marriage and small businesses who dont want to be forced to cater a gay wedding and you'll get more Republican/Conservative support.
New Flash ... they wont do it ... because they know they can use their partisan language as a cudgel and liberal dolts will eat it up like candy.
watch your tone with me ... boy.
Just because youre overly emotional, doesnt make you right.
Yeah, naw Paw - 55% of Americans say abortion access will be very important to their mid-term vote.
Besides that, how will Marjorie Taylor Greene, Matt Gaetz and all the new circus freaks Republicans would vote in help with those other issues?
Abortion Access Rises as a Voting Issue and Motivator, Especially Among Democrats and Reproductive-Age Women, But Inflation Continues to Dominate as Americans Worry About Bills | KFF
Following the Supreme Court’s decision to end the constitutional right to an abortion, most voters (55%) now say access to abortion is “very important” to their vote in November’s midterm elections, up 9 percentage points since February prior to the decision, a new KFF Health Tracking Poll...
www.kff.org
More Than Half of Republican House Members in Next Congress Will Be Election Deniers, Predicts FiveThirtyEight
While Republicans are still tipped to retake the House, the majority of Republicans running have already called into question the legitimacy of the elections.
www.mediaite.com
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I'd like to introduce the person from the first post to the person writing the second post.
I actually don't have a problem with his bill... If you think Republicans are REALLY about things being decided at the state level, I don't know what to tell you. Republican want things that they can't control nationally handed to the states. Dems are pretty much the same.. they just aren't as loud about it.
If I were the Dems, I'd counter propose with 24 weeks unlimited abortions for anyone. Then you start negotiating. People yell, scream, cry, piss and moan for a while. At last you end up with something reasonable, like the 15 weeks but almost unrestricted... I could live with that.
If I were the Dems, I'd counter propose with 24 weeks unlimited abortions for anyone. Then you start negotiating. People yell, scream, cry, piss and moan for a while. At last you end up with something reasonable, like the 15 weeks but almost unrestricted... I could live with that.
Source in that? The vast majority oppose late term abortions, which negates the “all” part of the statement. Most people want a reasonable time period for “voluntary” abortions and then want exceptions for the common carve outs. There’s so much middle ground to find if our politicians weren’t such worthless piles of shit.
I'm sure your imagination is infected with fake culture war issues the other side is guilty of that make both sides the same, amirite?
SMH at this backwards BS. Trans people have been around for over 50 years but somehow gay marriage is now responsible? Are heterosexual marriages responsible for female genital mutilation, incest and polygamy? C'mon man, you can do better than this.
Transgender athlete Renée Richards barred from U.S. Open | August 27, 1976 | HISTORY
On August 27, 1976, the United States Tennis Association bars transgender athlete Renée Richards from competing in the U.S. Open as a woman, stating she must pass a chromosomal test. Richards fails the test, sues the USTA and wins the right a year later to compete via a New York Supreme Court...
www.history.com
Also, Trans has nothing to do with being gay or A Democrat. Ever heard of Caitlyn Jenner?
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About six-in-ten Americans say abortion should be legal in all or most cases
A majority of U.S. adults say abortion should be legal in all or most cases; 37% think abortion should be illegal in all or most cases.
www.pewresearch.org
About six-in-ten Americans say abortion should be legal in all or most cases
A majority of U.S. adults say abortion should be legal in all or most cases; 37% think abortion should be illegal in all or most cases.
Thanks. The text of the article doesn't cover the timing issue, but the detailed questioning does. It can be found in the link below (from the bottom of the article).
On page 6 in particular, it highlights that 22% think abortion should be legal at 24 weeks and 43% think it should be illegal at 24 weeks. Compared to 14 weeks, where 34% favored legal to 27% illegal.
This highlights my point. The timing matters. The poll swung heavily over that 10 week period, with the stats indicating people are more comfortable closer to 14 weeks (8 point favorable spread) than 24 weeks (21 point unfavorable spread).
So again, I think the GOP proposal is a good starting point. Much of the nation would support an abortion policy with the popular carveouts and a time limit on other abortions, probably in the 15-18 week range.
And you (we) are regular posters on a message board dedicated to watching boys playing school yard games, so what is your point?
you’re being overly dramatic and emotional … very child like.
I’ll ask the question again..: why would anyone trust anything the GOP says about abortion at this point?
Why would anyone trust you or other dems who claim what everyone else knows is a lie to be the truth - like your claim about abortion support? If there is a party not to be trusted, you are part of it. You just posted proof of that.
Why would they trust any politician? They are are lying spin machines. Just look at the spin coming off the article in the OP. Posters ITT can’t even take an honest account of it, much less the soulless assholes in DC.
Why do you need to trust them anyways? There’s a dem congress and a dem president. Even if the midterms flip things, there’s still a dem president. So legislation on the matter would have to pass those blue checkpoints.
Exactly, and that is the message that the dems should be hammering home from now until November. There is a reason republicans are running from Graham's message. The dems should have Graham and Rick Scott on autoplay.
I would go with this:
What next? The republicans said they would not overturn Roe, then they did. They said they would leave abortion law up to the states, now they don't want to. If given power, they say they won't come after gay marriage and contraception. But can we trust them? They want to turn our country into a theocratic dictatorship, where their religion determines your personal freedoms.
Graham really F'd the republicans here. If you don't think abortion matters, just look at the senate projections now vs. six months ago.
And before anyone gets their panties in wad, the messaging above is no more harsh than repubs saying in every election that dems are pro-crime, pro open borders, and are coming to take all of your guns.
GOP sucks hard at messaging. Instead of banning abortions, they should spin it as protecting the right to abortion within reasonable limits as seen by the majority of Americans and Europeans.
It will be even harder to trust the messaging when all the new hard-right election deniers are sworn in.
Well please don’t do anything crazy like throw bricks through windows, attack anyone on the opposite side or loot any stores when the left loses control this November. Your mental health is important to me.
You may want to teach NYTiger how to throw before then, he strikes me as someone that’s right handed but leads with his right foot when he throws.
You might want to throw bricks yourself when you realize how diluted with stupidity your party will become in November. If I was a Republican, I'd want my candidates to lose to drive home the point that you can't win with conspiracy theorists. I heard NY can throw a brick from the opposite corner, sitting down, with his back turned to the store. Cuz he's a badass
I think they also need to be VERY clear that the choice of whether to move forward with a procedure to end a fetus to save the mother is COMPLETELY at the discretion of the doctor and mother, not the government.
I'll share a personal story as to why I believe that. My wife had a bad miscarriage in between our two kids. We woke up one morning and she was bleeding out. I had to give my daughter breakfast in one room and then hustle to the other room to keep my wife conscious until the ambulance got there. They came at 8, she was in emergency surgery a few hours later. Quick, decisive action by the doctors saved her life.
In a red state today, there is going to be hesitation in that situation. The doctor has to make a choice in that moment, knowing that the baby gestapo will later scrutinize it as to whether that fetus could have survived. This shit is already happening in red states since these laws kicked in. Doctors are sending women home when they should be helping them.
I pray that something like that never happens to any of you living in those states.
