Active Shooter in Philadelphia

[CUFam98]

I'm just going to point out that your graphic here seems to carry a troubling narrative. Can you clarify why you shared it? Are you supportive of the claim of the text that "0 were white".?

The text description is just for the "unsolved" cases. The race description is for those 16 where they have identified a suspect.

The bigger issue is that there are 146 unsolved mass murder cases, and 130 don't even have the race of the suspect.

 

[alex24]

This shit seems to be getting out of hand. And I'm torn on it. I've always believed in the constitution and states' rights but it doesn't seem every motherfvcker needs to stay strapped.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/philadelphia-shootout-multiple-officers-hurt.amp

It's all copy cat, and if the media wouldn't have covered Columbine the way they did. It would have never happened again. The media is as much to blame as the guns used in these shootings. They know the affect they have caused and don't care. It drives their ratings through the roof.

 

[goodsmitty]

Right, illegally

Then we should make illegal guns illegal to buy or sell, especially to criminals.


But seriously there isn’t a way to fix this because criminals are criminals. They do not care what laws they are breaking. Were they taught this? Maybe. Did they get into a bad situation and back against the wall the hit a downward spiral? Maybe. Point is you have zero control of lever a persons decision to break a law. Zero. You will always have zero control, but I am not saying take away laws or anything like that because in general people follow the rules and laws. We need those guidelines, but just like everything else in life there will be exceptions in that there will be a person in a population that desires more and they way they see to get it is to break the laws that keep a society on a specific path.

 

[StSimonsIslandTiger]

The gun issue is certainly a problem but more it gets sensationalized and over-covered relative to other issues. For instance - why does no one want to talk about drunk driving regulations? On average 30 people a day in the US die from drunk driving accidents. It's the biggest issue we have right now and no one wants to talk about it because everyone enjoys partaking and it doesn't generate the clicks for the media sites. IMO a bar serving someone 6 or 8 drinks and watching them walk out the door with their keys in hand is far more dangerous than selling someone a gun without a background check.

Agree.

Drunk driving, distracted driving, abortion, and suicide are huge categories of steady killing in our nation.

 

[tiger7557]

Then we should make illegal guns illegal to buy or sell, especially to criminals.


But seriously there isn’t a way to fix this because criminals are criminals. They do not care what laws they are breaking. Were they taught this? Maybe. Did they get into a bad situation and back against the wall the hit a downward spiral? Maybe. Point is you have zero control of lever a persons decision to break a law. Zero. You will always have zero control, but I am not saying take away laws or anything like that because in general people follow the rules and laws. We need those guidelines, but just like everything else in life there will be exceptions in that there will be a person in a population that desires more and they way they see to get it is to break the laws that keep a society on a specific path.

Unless the criminals have a lab in their basement where they are building these weapons, cartridges, ammunition, there has to be a way to CONTROL the flow and purchase.

 

[acwill07]

Agree.

Drunk driving, distracted driving, abortion, and suicide are huge categories of steady killing in our nation.

One of those things is not like the others.

 

[CUTiger81]

One of those things is not like the others.

Suicide? Because it can't cause death to another human being?

 

[gardentiger]

We need to do something

That's what the shooters say.

 

[Cavitybacks]

If you legalize drugs they don't have to make arrests for people who violate the sale of drugs. That's half the reason police make arrests.

Maybe if all these people were just doped up on loads of heroin, they would just die alone in some apartment building. Supposedly heroin is pretty good stuff.

 

[92TigerME]

Maybe if all these people were just doped up on loads of heroin, they would just die alone in some apartment building. Supposedly heroin is pretty good stuff.

I don't condone use of drugs but if someone wants to kill themselves, that's their problem not mine.

 

[brandoncross]

Then why have any laws at all? Stupid reasoning. The problem with our country is we have way too many guns. Look at other civilized countries. They don't have these problems like we do. There are several things we could do to make positive changes and save lives because doing nothing hasn't worked at all. The NRA owns most Republicans and crooked politicians like Mitch McConnell won't do a damn thing as long as it effects his money. It's all about the money and the power in the US.

Laws are made for law abiding citizens. That’s why we have laws. I don’t care if you change the laws and make it more difficult to get a gun, I’ll still be fine. I’m just asking if it would make any difference.

And I completely disagree with the comparison of us to other countries. How many other civilized countries have the vast open spaces we have for sport shooting and hunting? Don’t punish everyone that knows how to safely enjoy their guns due to a few crazies out there that have killed .00038% of our citizens. More healthy young adults die (varies kinds of accidents; 465) per day in the US than have died all year due to mass shootings.

I get that there’s no place for shooting innocent people, and I’m for trying to keep guns out of mentally unstable people. But I’m here to tell you, laws only work for law abiding citizens and no mass shooter is a law abiding citizen.

 

[92TigerME]

The immediate effect of a mass shooting is calls for gun control.

Where is Jussie Smollett?

We now have a written manifesto if you believe what the author rote who happened to kill people at random. Do you believe a person who just killed so many people?

Why do they use semi automatics in the US and fully automatics in France where guns are banned?

It's political terrorism IMO. You got two types.

Right wing and left wing

 

[BDAZED]

Let me digress. Welcome to my world of out of the box thinking. Some call me crazy for this.

The debate about gun control has become so politicized that it is not out of the realm of possibilities that some of these mass shooter are doing it to promote more division and gun control. I want to focus on the Vegas Shooter. Everyone seems to have forgotten that one.

Here is a man who spend $100,000 on multiple AR-15s to shoot a bunch of likely Trump supporters a distance of 400-500 yards with a 5.56 round which has a maximum range of 300 yards. For that kind of money, he could have purchased a fully automatic machine gun that shoots 7.62x54 that has a range of 1000 yards and done much more killing. So you would think, if his objective was to kill, he could have killed many more had he chose the right weapon. So why didn't he? Why did he choose a less effective off the shelf totally legal AR15?

The only thing I can think of is that he wanted people to ban the AR-15 and they almost did. Now consider a Right wing Terrorist like McVeigh. What did he use? He didn't use a gun. He used a truck bomb. What was his motive? To kill the feds.

My point is, that many are doing it to cause political divide over the 2A.

What makes me think this way? Cause and effect. I'm trained that way. You can't tell me that these shooters can't foresee the outcome of their actions.

Let me know where I can get one of them pre 86 machine guns, I’ll wait. Check the ATF wait times while you’re at it also.

 

[Cavitybacks]

I'm not at all suggesting this is a solution because it is not.

Revolvers, shotguns, and bolt action rifles are the only guns that anyone needs.

We can still enjoy hunting and can also kill someone if they steal our car at the gas station.

 

[SpartanTiger120]

Let me digress. Welcome to my world of out of the box thinking. Some call me crazy for this.

The debate about gun control has become so politicized that it is not out of the realm of possibilities that some of these mass shooter are doing it to promote more division and gun control. I want to focus on the Vegas Shooter. Everyone seems to have forgotten that one.

Here is a man who spend $100,000 on multiple AR-15s to shoot a bunch of likely Trump supporters a distance of 400-500 yards with a 5.56 round which has a maximum range of 300 yards. For that kind of money, he could have purchased a fully automatic machine gun that shoots 7.62x54 that has a range of 1000 yards and done much more killing. So you would think, if his objective was to kill, he could have killed many more had he chose the right weapon. So why didn't he? Why did he choose a less effective off the shelf totally legal AR15?

The only thing I can think of is that he wanted people to ban the AR-15 and they almost did. Now consider a Right wing Terrorist like McVeigh. What did he use? He didn't use a gun. He used a truck bomb. What was his motive? To kill the feds.

My point is, that many are doing it to cause political divide over the 2A.

What makes me think this way? Cause and effect. I'm trained that way. You can't tell me that these shooters can't foresee the outcome of their actions.

Maybe, just maybe, the Vegas shooter chose the AR-15 because it's readily available for purchase under existing law while M60's and the like are not.

This seems more likely than your theory.

 

[acwill07]

Suicide? Because it can't cause death to another human being?

No, abortion.

 

[scotchtiger]

Hmm so we are conflating school shootings with gang warfare? How does that help us discuss this issue? Seems like an argument for rounding up all the guns

The recent shootings weren't school shootings, so are we conflating those with Dayton, El Paso and the thread topic of Philly?

Gun violence is a broad issue. The media focuses on a few select instances. My reply was originally intended for the person trying to paint a picture that those on the right politically are primarily responsible for these shootings.

We should focus on the areas that can affect real change. Mental health, investment in underserved communities, drugs, background checks, red flag laws, etc. should all be on the table.

Mental health and opioids are far more impactful to this country than any of these incidents. Trying to prevent a few lunatics per year from getting their hands on something destructive is almost impossible and would likely have a negligible impact. Addressing much broader, much more impactful issues might actually result in meaningful improvement.

 

[92TigerME]

Maybe, just maybe, the Vegas shooter choose the AR-15 because it's readily available for purchase under existing law while M60's and the like are not.

This seems more likely than your theory.

That's true. I agree but you're assuming his only objective is to kill whereas I'm saying his primary objective is to get political momentum to ban the gun and his secondary objective is to kill. So in order to accomplish his primary objective, he must kill using the weapons he wants banned.

The fact that they are easier to purchase considering he had the financial means to buy either supports my theory. It also explains why the scheme will work because indeed the gun control advocates primary reason is the ease of purchase.

 

[92TigerME]

Let me know where I can get one of them pre 86 machine guns, I’ll wait. Check the ATF wait times while you’re at it also.

Why don't you Google it? You first. I don't want to get SWATED.

FN makes the M240 version down in Columbia SC.

 

[gogetem]

I'm just going to point out that your graphic here seems to carry a troubling narrative. Can you clarify why you shared it? Are you supportive of the claim of the text that "0 were white".? Also it appears to allude that the issue is only in major cities with urban population. Do you think you might be conflating mass ('err as the astute researcher states: Mas. lol) shooting with gang and drug war shootings? Thats pretty dumb.

There is a “troubling narrative.”

The media, and other groups, are using the “250 mass shootings to date” narrative in a drive to bash Trump, conservatives, the NRA, and pro-gun folks and, of late, to link those to a supposed rise in White supremacy caused by Trump. At the same time they’re using that narrative to push for an “assault weapon” ban, and even more ominously some are calling for a ban on semi-automatics. In fact though, the staggering majority of “mass” shootings are gang/drug/criminally driven, and committed with handguns.

Regardless of what side of the gun debate you reside, I don’t see how one can look at that poster and not question the narrative being pushed.

 

[gogetem]

I'm not at all suggesting this is a solution because it is not.

Revolvers, shotguns, and bolt action rifles are the only guns that anyone needs.

We can still enjoy hunting and can also kill someone if they steal our car at the gas station.

Remember Western Civ II? Russian Revolution? “From each according to his means. To each according to his needs.” That’s Communism my friend. Our system is based on rights, not needs.

Now, I agree that bolt action rifles are better for hunting, and revolvers and shotguns are better for home defense. But I will determine what I need and don’t need. I don’t want a California politician (or any politician for that matter) making that determination.

 

[BDAZED]

Why don't you Google it? You first. I don't want to get SWATED.

FN makes the M240 version down in Columbia SC.

And you can’t buy it no matter how much money you have. Pre 1986 is all you can buy, their is a nice HK MP5 on gunbroker for $40k though.

 

[Howard's Jock]

What’s the main political view of most of the major mass shooters in the last 5 years?

mass shootings are considered 4 or more so its a more diverse group of perpetrators than you think...maybe what you are going for is serial killers

 

[BDAZED]

That's true. I agree but you're assuming his only objective is to kill whereas I'm saying his primary objective is to get political momentum to ban the gun and his secondary objective is to kill. So in order to accomplish his primary objective, he must kill using the weapons he wants banned.

The fact that they are easier to purchase considering he had the financial means to buy either supports my theory. It also explains why the scheme will work because indeed the gun control advocates primary reason is the ease of purchase.

No such thing as “ease of purchase” on a Class III weapon which includes Pre 1986 automatic weapons, suppressors, SBRs, and sawed off shotguns. You will pay a $200 tax stamp per item and sometimes get written permission from your local sheriff’s dept or city police, not to mention fingerprints and probably a 9 month wait for paperwork at the ATF.

 

[Howard's Jock]

The gun issue is certainly a problem but more it gets sensationalized and over-covered relative to other issues. For instance - why does no one want to talk about drunk driving regulations? On average 30 people a day in the US die from drunk driving accidents. It's the biggest issue we have right now and no one wants to talk about it because everyone enjoys partaking and it doesn't generate the clicks for the media sites. IMO a bar serving someone 6 or 8 drinks and watching them walk out the door with their keys in hand is far more dangerous than selling someone a gun without a background check.

well said

 

[92TigerME]

And you can’t buy it no matter how much money you have. Pre 1986 is all you can buy, their is a nice HK MP5 on gunbroker for $40k though.

I have the FN America website on my favorites just cuz I want one of their hand guns. I thought they sell the civilian versions of the M240 for about $8500. You need like 20 grand to get a fully automatic lower receiver. There's always the black market for those mass killers who seek out the maximum damage.

I still can't wrap my head around why someone would do this just for the sake of killing. He buys 10 ARs. Bust a hole in the window and starts shooting people 500 yards away. WTF?

This is more than just crazy. Th is is beyond crazy. Not crazy. A crazy person doesn't do this.

 

[essoclemsontiger]

I agree, it is out of hand.

However, my big question is what has changed the last 25 years? 25+ years ago we had guns, semi automatic weapons, mental illness, large magazines, bad parents, graphic media, etc. I know the Federal Assault Weapons Ban enacted in 1994 and expired in 2004.

So, why were there not more mass shootings in past?

For me, this is a complex issue that has become more of a copy cat issue.

None of the above is helping our country, I can tell you that.

 

[BDAZED]

I have the FN America website on my favorites just cuz I want one of their hand guns. I thought they sell the civilian versions for about $8500. You need like 20 grand to get a fully automatic lower receiver. There's always the black market for those mass killers who seek out the maximum damage.

I still can't wrap my head around why someone would do this just for the sake of killing. He buys 10 ARs. Bust a hole in the window and starts shooting people 500 yards away. WTF?

You cannot own a full auto M240. ISIS or The taliban may have some over in Iraq and Afghanistan thanks to Hillary Clinton and other crooked state department employees though.

 

[Clemblack]

It's all copy cat, and if the media wouldn't have covered Columbine the way they did. It would have never happened again. The media is as much to blame as the guns used in these shootings. They know the affect they have caused and don't care. It drives their ratings through the roof.

The media loves mass shootings. There is no denying that.

 

[gcsoccer16]

Tell us your exact news sources.

Tiger illustrated. Duh

 

[gcsoccer16]

The media loves mass shootings. There is no denying that.

Sad but true.

 

[92TigerME]

The shooter in Ohio was retweeting gun control tweets right after the Texas shooting. I love how he got dropped like a sack of potatoes before he made it inside the bar. He probably planned on killing many more just to make his gun control point.

 

[firegiver]

There is a “troubling narrative.”

The media, and other groups, are using the “250 mass shootings to date” narrative in a drive to bash Trump, conservatives, the NRA, and pro-gun folks and, of late, to link those to a supposed rise in White supremacy caused by Trump. At the same time they’re using that narrative to push for an “assault weapon” ban, and even more ominously some are calling for a ban on semi-automatics. In fact though, the staggering majority of “mass” shootings are gang/drug/criminally driven, and committed with handguns.

Regardless of what side of the gun debate you reside, I don’t see how one can look at that poster and not question the narrative being pushed.

Sorry about your feelings. Do you think conflating the motives of school shooters with gang bangers helps the conversation? Or does it help your base feel better?

 

[KansasClemson215]

If yesterday wasnt bad enough, 5 more people shot TODAY in North Philly

https://6abc.com/police-5-people-shot-in-logan/5470510/

 

[firegiver]

The recent shootings weren't school shootings, so are we conflating those with Dayton, El Paso and the thread topic of Philly?

Gun violence is a broad issue. The media focuses on a few select instances. My reply was originally intended for the person trying to paint a picture that those on the right politically are primarily responsible for these shootings.

We should focus on the areas that can affect real change. Mental health, investment in underserved communities, drugs, background checks, red flag laws, etc. should all be on the table.

Mental health and opioids are far more impactful to this country than any of these incidents. Trying to prevent a few lunatics per year from getting their hands on something destructive is almost impossible and would likely have a negligible impact. Addressing much broader, much more impactful issues might actually result in meaningful improvement.

I agree with your points, I'm just trying to weigh the impact of saying : Oh yeah so what if a white nationalist killed some people, a bunch of gang bangers kill people as well. It's a normalization of the behavior. It doesn't really get us any where, because as with any murder case we have to study motive. If you want to get rid of or water down the discussion of motive then you really are moving the topic on to other things. I see what you are saying though. I agree common sense gun laws like the ones you state make sense for me personally. I worry that conflating motives however will actually perpetuate a feedback loop in the media/internet coverage to shooter loop ( its weird but shooters fantasize about that crap).

 

[JAMCRACKER99]

Have you ever looked at how little money the NRA actually doles out to politicians as opposed to how much Planned Parenthood doles out to politicians? You might be surprised. One of the two entities has received Fed Taxpayer Funds over the years and the other has not.
I agree that money/POWER/greed has consumed DC for close to a century, at least. That's exactly why I am a Trump supporter!

SMFH

 

[JAMCRACKER99]

Laws are made for law abiding citizens. That’s why we have laws. I don’t care if you change the laws and make it more difficult to get a gun, I’ll still be fine. I’m just asking if it would make any difference.

And I completely disagree with the comparison of us to other countries. How many other civilized countries have the vast open spaces we have for sport shooting and hunting? Don’t punish everyone that knows how to safely enjoy their guns due to a few crazies out there that have killed .00038% of our citizens. More healthy young adults die (varies kinds of accidents; 465) per day in the US than have died all year due to mass shootings.

I get that there’s no place for shooting innocent people, and I’m for trying to keep guns out of mentally unstable people. But I’m here to tell you, laws only work for law abiding citizens and no mass shooter is a law abiding citizen.

If new laws were to save even a hundred lives a year it would be worth it. I'm not talking about talking all guns away because that would never happen. Something needs to be done.

 

[Chefkdh]

That goes for 90% of most gun violence. Until we teach "men" how to be fathers, it's pretty tough to break the chain.

When i worked for the Boy Scouts this was something we talked about quite a bit. Everyone wants donate and volunteer with the disease, abused victim and poverty related nonprofits but in reality, if we would focus on teaching young boys to become good men and model citizens, the need for those other causes would greatly diminish

 

[Chefkdh]

57 people were shot last weekend in chicago and that got hardly any attention by the main stream media outlets. 7 people were killed. Also, if you are still getting your news from fox, cnn, msnbc I feel for you.

Probably weren’t enough white people killed

 

[Jwilliamsiii]

When i worked for the Boy Scouts this was something we talked about quite a bit. Everyone wants donate and volunteer with the disease, abused victim and poverty related nonprofits but in reality, if we would focus on teaching young boys to become good men and model citizens, the need for those other causes would greatly diminish

Correct. Agree 118%