Biden declares war on MAGA
- Thread starter TigerGrowls
- Start date
This whole "I don't see 6 million dead Jews and a continent in ruin" bit is a real window into the depth of thinking you get with these people. They want to actually see it before they'll even say it, and of course by then it's far too late.
To be fair, the Nazis absolutely telegraphed their plans ahead of time. They ran on that platform and won. They were legally elected.You're correct in pointing out that the MAGA movement doesn't "appear" to be that extreme because that was a unique movement but as @okclem pointed out, they don't telegraph their darkest plans ahead of time. But after they purge 50,000+ government employees in favor of ideological loyalists and he doesn't have to worry about the election anymore, all bets are off.
Trump's promise of payback for prosecution follows years of attacking democratic traditions
Donald Trump’s attacks on the justice system after his indictment on federal charges this week are the latest step in a now eight-year campaign by the former president and his allies against the traditions and institutions that have helped maintain American democracy.apnews.com
Also, I’d argue that Trump isn’t really the scary one. The scary one is whoever comes after Trump after the Maga movement has paved the way for authoritarianism and Fascism to truly take hold. Trump is just a narcissistic megalomaniac whose political positions are for sale and cares a lot more a pumping his ego than actually enacting any particular policy. The next one will be a true believer and far more calculating and won’t have to fight for institutional changes if Trump takes care of that for them.You're correct in pointing out that the MAGA movement doesn't "appear" to be that extreme because that was a unique movement but as @okclem pointed out, they don't telegraph their darkest plans ahead of time. But after they purge 50,000+ government employees in favor of ideological loyalists and he doesn't have to worry about the election anymore, all bets are off.
Trump's promise of payback for prosecution follows years of attacking democratic traditions
Donald Trump’s attacks on the justice system after his indictment on federal charges this week are the latest step in a now eight-year campaign by the former president and his allies against the traditions and institutions that have helped maintain American democracy.
Without researching it, I thought Hindenburg appointed Hitler in 1933 and I don't believe the Final Solution was known to be in the plans at that time - hints maybe but I don't think the public anticipated the Holocaust. I also believe I remember reading they terrorized the public into voting for the party and/or terrorized people to prevent them from voting.
They did not telegraph genocide. They never ran on a platform of exterminating races of people. That is absolutely false.
They ran on a platform of scapegoating those people and of German imperial expansion, and then once they were in power they ratcheted up the pressure year by year on anyone seen as undesirable.
You're obviously very educated on these matters, but you're simply wrong about them telegraphing ALL their plans before they were duly elected to power.
This is not the first time you've tried to make this argument either. I'm going to ask you for some evidence that the Nazis telegraphed their intentions to commit genocide in their election platform.
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Hitler/Nazis won the votes and Von Hindenburg awarded Hitler the chancellorship outright and legally in 1933, and then after the Reichstag fire the Nazis just pressured Von Hindenburg into a emergency suspension of parliamentary procedure that placed total, dictatorial power in Hitler's hands.
Hitler did want to murder all the Jews all along, but he never ran on a platform of murdering every Jew. The Final Solution wasn't thought up and implemented until 1942.
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Side note about that picture of Biden in the original post... I'm pretty sure that's an AI image. I don't think Biden can lift his fists that high over his head.
That's right, thanks for jogging my memory. I should have known this because I spent 6 days in Berlin last year and visited many of the historical sites from that time, though we couldn't tour the Reichstag because we didn't realize you had to book a tour ahead of time. Side note, I also tried to book a tour of the annex where Anne Frank's family hid out when I was in Amsterdam the year before but you have to book that a month out.
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That's awesome I'm glad you got to take that trip. I went to Europe when I was 10, too young to really appreciate it. But my parents did take me to Dachau, and I remember it like it happened yesterday. It was probably the single most formative event of my life. I can accept that it made me kind of militant in my anti-fascist views. But I believe that's what you have to be when it comes time fascism.
I'll just go ahead and nip this side debate in the bud so we can move past the pointless semantics of it. Here's the Nazi party 25 Point Platform. Genocide is mentioned nowhere.
www.vaholocaust.org
25 Points of NSDAP: Explore The Nazi Party's Platform
25 Points of NSDAP: Explore The Nazi Party's Platform Under Hilter
The Germans are deeply ashamed of their past and we were told right off the bat it's considered impolite to speak Hitler's name out loud. They tell you to say Fuhrer instead. FYI, I did get a pic of the Reichstag from outside though.
Probably true but I'm not sure what's scarier - a dumb authoritarian who can easily influence his cult to go along with his seditious plans or a smart one who might not suffer from the same level of megalomania.
The ‘28-‘32 elections are considered to be free and fair. Nazi party won 12 seats in ‘28, 95 seats in ‘30, 123 seats in ‘32. So the Nazis were getting elected freely and farily with Hitler as the leader of the party. They won 37% of the vote in ‘32 which gave them the highest numer of seats in Parliament, though not quite a majority. Since there was no majority, Hindeburg named Hitler chancellor since they had the most seats. After becoming Chancellor, hitler was able to force a new election in March of ‘33, before which was the famous reichstag fire. There’s debate over just how “free and fair” that election was. Hitler had gained significant power over the country’s institutions, including the police force, so there was certainly some voter intimidation happening, but there was actual opposition on the ballot and the Nazis still did not get majority control, although they took 43% of the votes.
Hitler then pushed for the enabling act, which passed 444-94. The Nazis at this point 288 seats, so members of other parties did legitimately vote for this bill, which then more or less gave Hitler dictatorial control, and he named himself Fuhrer in 1934.
So yes, the Nazis came to power freely and fairly, and then once they got “enough” power they were able to muscle their way into a dictatorship.
Genocide was not a part of their political talking points, but they had very, very clearly laid out plans to expel Jews from Germany, severly restrict the rights of any non-German, use the military to reclaim what they felt were their rightful lands, and to establish “unlimited authority” of the central government. They told everyone they wanted to establish a dictatorship.
The one thing Trump has that makes him the most dangerous person right now, is a citizen army ready to die for him. I don't think any movement like this can survive without a fuhrer, and I don't know that anyone is there waiting to step into Trump's shoes.
I have a very close eye on Elon Musk though. I think he represents a potentially far greater threat than Trump. I don't know of any other person who could lead a bona fide movement at the moment. But overall I agree with the notion that even if trump loses in November we are still stuck with his maga lunacy for a long time.
At no point have I ever said they ran on genocide. I am not including genocide when I say they “telegraphed their plans.” I’m referring to the laws and programs that they passed that eventually led up to genocide. I don’t know that the Nazis even knew they wanted to commit genocide until farily late in their regime.
I believe displaying anything Nazi related is actually illegal in Germany, right?The Germans are deeply ashamed of their past and we were told right off the bat it's considered impolite to speak Hitler's name out loud. They tell you to say Fuhrer instead. FYI, I did get a pic of the Reichstag from outside though.
You mean, like the way Trump and his people have very, very clearly spelled out their plans in Project 2025 to expel "undocumented people" from this country, severely restrict the rights of any non- Christian, establish total authority of the central government, deriving from one man, the man who has already said he wants to be a dictator on day 1?
What are you arguing here? Just take the L and move on. Hitler and the Nazis never telegraphed everything, not even close to everything. This is such a weird hill to die on.
This does not need to become the People's Front of Judea versus the Judean People's Front. What a weird thread.
Wtf are you talking about? What hill am I dying on? We’re literally making the same argument. Project 2025 is the American version of the Nazi 25 point plan. Your first paragraph is making my point.
yes and also what they call incitement of the people , or hate speech. They also have a law criminalizing Holocaust denial.
German far-right leader intentionally used banned Nazi slogan, court rules
Alternative for Germany politician Björn Höcke was fined for uttering a phrase employed by Hitler’s storm troopers.
www.politico.eu
This nazi AfD party is currently making political headway in Germany. This shit is on the rise all over Europe again.
If you're the surviving Nazis of ww2, and you want your movement to survive and make another run at racist world domination, the way you do it in the 21st century is get the former 20th century Allies politically aligned with nazi ideology. Why fight em when you can just influence them to fight on your side this time. I hope all freedom and decency loving people are ready. They're about to shoot for the moon again.
In the 25 points doc that @okclem attached, it says Jews could stay but only as a guest, though I'm sure it was implicitly understood they weren't welcome.
- Only a member of the race can be a citizen. A member of the race can only be one who is of German blood, without consideration of creed. Consequently no Jew can be a member of the race.
- Whoever has no citizenship is to be able to live in Germany only as a guest, and must be under the authority of legislation for foreigners.
"However, following Hitler being elected chancellor, the SA, and particularly Röhm, were keen to continue the ‘revolution’ and replace the traditional conservative elite with Nazis. Hitler and the rest of the Nazi leadership disagreed with their approach. They understood the need to appear moderate and take over slowly by democratic means where possible, maintaining the stability and illusion of a democracy."
Elections 1933 – The Holocaust Explained: Designed for schools
www.theholocaustexplained.org
Yep, good info here. By no measure did the Nazis absolutely telegraph their plans. They telegraphed enough hatred and bigotry to get into power, exactly as Trump has done since he started his first campaign.In the 25 points doc that @okclem attached, it says Jews could stay but only as a guest, though I'm sure it was implicitly understood they weren't welcome.
They also understood it was prudent to softly implement their plans to not induce panic until they had full control. The Reichstag fire served as the excuse for implementing Emergency Powers. I'm wondering if "Weaponization of Govt." will be the excuse for the maga party to do the same.
- Only a member of the race can be a citizen. A member of the race can only be one who is of German blood, without consideration of creed. Consequently no Jew can be a member of the race.
- Whoever has no citizenship is to be able to live in Germany only as a guest, and must be under the authority of legislation for foreigners.
"However, following Hitler being elected chancellor, the SA, and particularly Röhm, were keen to continue the ‘revolution’ and replace the traditional conservative elite with Nazis. Hitler and the rest of the Nazi leadership disagreed with their approach. They understood the need to appear moderate and take over slowly by democratic means where possible, maintaining the stability and illusion of a democracy."
Elections 1933 – The Holocaust Explained: Designed for schools
This is the correct answer, yet all your supporters in this thread fail to realize it. Ironic, yet not surprising, people like @dpic73 make posts about anti-intellectuals when they clearly fall in that category, as well.
Wow, you're the dumbest of the dumb on here. How about showing the video instead of stand still pictures. Geez
I'm smart enough to put your squirrely ass in your place when I choose to.
And thanks for adding to the discussion by attacking me instead of adding your intellectual take on the subject dumbass.
You never put anyone in their place as you rarely have a clue what you are talking about.
I added to the discussion to point out that even people on your side of the trump hater's aisle, can point out the fact that your(and others) constant nazi references are further proof of your lack of intellectual capacity.
There is certainly plenty to criticize trump about, he is a terrible person. To throw around nazi references both cheapens the atrocities actual nazi's committed and makes the rare accurate criticism of trump you make less reliable.
I don't have to prove I'm not a nazi. You have to prove I am and so far you are far from there comrade.
Okclems nazi learning is focused around watching hogans heros. He thought sergeant Schultz was the anti christ.
No I went to Clemson and got an actual education on the subject.
Says the guy who just called me out for saying something I didn't, which means you don't have the ability to even comprehend what you're reading. I didn't call anyone a nazi, I used a different term and you're free to research that and then follow that up by reading what i said that backed up my statement.
And you know I've eaten your lunch plenty of times on this board and I can provide the proof if I need to because you're the disingenuous chud that claims you hate Trump but you'll have a meaningless, insignificant reason for voting for him anyway like "I don't like Trump but he's the much better option because "hamsters ate Mary Poppins balls on a ferris wheel"
In short, you are full of shit.
Can you direct the same fingerwagging at those on the right who claim that everyone on the left are socialists/communists?
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