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FPOTUS Trump attempted assassination…

Amongst many things one of the biggest things I found weird and interesting was I counted 4 of the immediate 10-12 secret service agents I saw on his detail were women. I’m not trying to be sexist but how is a 5’5 woman supposed to protect and shield a 6’2, 6’3 male? I know some bad ass women and I’m not saying they don’t have a place on the SS because they clearly do. I would think you would want some people of all shapes, sizes and abilities 4 women on the detail that all looked liked middle aged 5’5 white women in decent shape.
I thought the same thing. The woman immediately in the shield had no business being there. Though she is still heroic in her actions. It was the first thing i noticed how trump was towering over her.

I think the post earlier by a different poster is too far. There is a place in the SS for women, and i doubt any of them are fat. I assume they are all wearing protective vests on, combine that with a suit they are going to look more plump than normal.

Not that that has anything to do with the original problem but its further questioning what exactly is the SS thinking?
 
Let's assume the USSS had the sniper in their scopes and were not given the green light before he fired.

If they knew he was there would protocol not be to immediately remove Trump from the possible threat?
At the very least IMO. Not sure what the protocol is, but if it’s not to immediately remove the threat, then I just don’t get it.
 
Let's assume the USSS had the sniper in their scopes and were not given the green light before he fired.

If they knew he was there would protocol not be to immediately remove Trump from the possible threat?

This is a great point, at a minimum there should've been a pause over a security concern and removed Trump asap. THis event is going to be a great study for agencies involved over a massive fail in communication. With our technologies available today, there is no way in heck someone can crawl on a roof 150 yards away in a very rural area and do what just happened.
 
Access to your insights will greatly help those of us unsure of what information to rely upon. Thank you for taking the time for this thread @24TIGER, as it cannot be an easy one to do not will it be quick for you.

Now my questions:

Shooter has been identified, but little social media presence. What steps are (presumably) already being taken to identify a motive?

What, in your mind, is the biggest question that needs an answer, with what I can assume had to a more than one point failure?
 
That's my #1 question above all else.

Overwhelming evidence, from multiple sources, indicates that the protection detail (whether it was USSS or contracted officials from other agencies) knew the gunmen was there and didn't eliminate him until after he took the shot.

I simply can't wrap my head around how this went down the way it did.
Yea there were clearly some incredible SS agents that did their jobs yesterday and saved it from being a more catastrophic event. And credit to them they should be commended. But there were also some who were completely negligent or under qualified and not prepared for the moment at best and failed. Or I hate to say it there were some that knew what was going to happen and simply stood down from orders and allowed it to happen. It didn’t matter who they were supposed to protect their was clear negligence and failure here by multiple people. We have too much technology and training capabilities now a days for something like this to have happened. We were 2 inches away from a former president current candidates head being blown off on national tv. That just can’t happen. A better shooter and this story is 1000 times worse and it’s already bad
 
This is a great point, at a minimum there should've been a pause over a security concern and removed Trump asap. THis event is going to be a great study for agencies involved over a massive fail in communication. With our technologies available today, there is no way in heck someone can crawl on a roof 150 yards away in a very rural area and do what just happened.
This post covers a few of the details (with opinions).

I was surprised by the agents in the shield all appearing to be ducking/hunched over while Trump was standing tall as they were exiting the stage. Shouldn't they have been covering him?

 
And I guess the one question I heard that is a good one...why did they await the assassin to shoot before they shot? It appeared that a sniper had him in his sights prior to the initial shots at Trump we taken

That seemed off to me
This is my biggest concern and I hope we get an answer for this obvious malfeasance.
 
All former Presidents have SS protection, and any Presidential candidate has SS protection, do the two situations differ in numbers via typical SS procedures? Is there a manpower difference here?

An AR has a range of about 600 yards, as do many rifles and calibers, some even more. The SS has to evaluate whether a nearby roof can be a threat. Don’t they? If there’s a viable shot from 130-150yds away then why wouldn’t they have the roof covered. Either they thought they could cover it from another roof or they need to block off the shot angle.
 
Amongst many things one of the biggest things I found weird and interesting was I counted 4 of the immediate 10-12 secret service agents I saw on his detail were women. I’m not trying to be sexist but how is a 5’5 woman supposed to protect and shield a 6’2, 6’3 male? I know some bad ass women and I’m not saying they don’t have a place on the SS because they clearly do. I would think you would want some people of all shapes, sizes and abilities 4 women on the detail that all looked liked middle aged 5’5 white women in decent shape.
Not a good look at all... Head of SS should have been fired the minute Trump was secure.

 
I thought the same thing. The woman immediately in the shield had no business being there. Though she is still heroic in her actions. It was the first thing i noticed how trump was towering over her.

I think the post earlier by a different poster is too far. There is a place in the SS for women, and i doubt any of them are fat. I assume they are all wearing protective vests on, combine that with a suit they are going to look more plump than normal.

Not that that has anything to do with the original problem but its further questioning what exactly is the SS thinking?
Yea I definitely see a need for women and people of different shapes and sizes on the secret service. I’m not saying everyone should be 6’5 230 pounds of straight muscle. Different people are needed for different jobs. What I will say though is over is assigned to be part of the shield should be taller than the person they are shielding. Man or woman. That’s just common sense in my opinion. If the person is 6 feet tall there damn well should be 6 agents atleast 6’1 able to cover and shield him.
 
Yea I definitely see a need for women and people of different shapes and sizes on the secret service. I’m not saying everyone should be 6’5 230 pounds of straight muscle. Different people are needed for different jobs. What I will say though is over is assigned to be part of the shield should be taller than the person they are shielding. Man or woman. That’s just common sense in my opinion. If the person is 6 feet tall there damn well should be 6 agents atleast 6’1 able to cover and shield him.
Exactly
 
Yea I definitely see a need for women and people of different shapes and sizes on the secret service. I’m not saying everyone should be 6’5 230 pounds of straight muscle. Different people are needed for different jobs. What I will say though is over is assigned to be part of the shield should be taller than the person they are shielding. Man or woman. That’s just common sense in my opinion. If the person is 6 feet tall there damn well should be 6 agents atleast 6’1 able to cover and shield him.
Well said, brother.
 
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Thanks for attempting to answer all of our questions, @24TIGER

1) How many resources does a Presidential Candidate get today? For comparisons sake, how many does POTUS and VPOTUS get today? Vs 2001 during 9/11? Vs the early 90’s? Vs a Senator for another comparison?

2) For Former President Trump, for any event he’s attending, what’s the protocol to work with local authorities?

3) For Former President Trump, how does the logistical planning typically work for security purposes? Is it strictly in an office meeting and the team goes over something on PPT, reviews, and map scaling (trying to remember to my Army days and how we used to go through briefings and go to a table top with a map rendering with sticks and Little rocks and stuff)

4) How many folks are UC in events like this trying to blend in but really just looking at folks?

5) Do technological scans work they way they should (I know at The Battery Atlanta, security is really high tech to the point they don’t require people to be scanned in every entry point, etc). How reliable are some of these tech cameras when there’s thousands of people there

6) For these kinds of rallies, I’m assuming someone on the Campaign Team coordinates with so many cross functional partners - media, PR, Legal, Finance, Marketing, etc - when selecting dates and locations. How often does Security get a say? Or do you just have to go with what their plans are and make the best of the situation in a small time window?

Thanks
 
Yea I definitely see a need for women and people of different shapes and sizes on the secret service. I’m not saying everyone should be 6’5 230 pounds of straight muscle. Different people are needed for different jobs. What I will say though is over is assigned to be part of the shield should be taller than the person they are shielding. Man or woman. That’s just common sense in my opinion. If the person is 6 feet tall there damn well should be 6 agents atleast 6’1 able to cover and shield him.
Just curious. Why is there a need for women and people of different shapes and sizes?

Maybe a better way of asking, why wouldn’t you just want qualified people regardless of sex and size?
 
Not a good look at all... Head of SS should have been fired the minute Trump was secure.

Yea I’m sorry but that’s bad. The two women in front look completely overwhelmed and unqualified to be in that position, I’m sure things are hectic and crazy but these are supposed to be the elite of the elite we are protecting a former president here not some random person like me. I mean the girl on the left couldn’t holster a gun. She literally failed twice and then just held it up to play it off because she couldn’t figure out how to get a gun in a holster. What are we doing here?
 
Let's assume the USSS had the sniper in their scopes and were not given the green light before he fired.

If they knew he was there would protocol not be to immediately remove Trump from the possible threat?

THIS is the first question. Was there someone higher up that failed to give clearance to the snipers to take the threat out? If yes, then the next question is, is it because of bad judgement/incompetence or worse politically motivated by someone further up the chain…we will never get an answer to the second part.

My guess is the blame gets pushed down to the people on the ground.
 
God, however, does not ordain specific tactics and protocols of the Secret Service, which this thread is about.
Yes. Exactly. I realize this adds to the clutter, but if there was ever a thread for more censorship to ensure we get the very specific scope of this thread to be maintained, it would be this time @Cris_Ard @nmerritt11 and any other mods helping here. We have a unique opportunity I would like to not see squandered
 
Great details here (have to open to scroll through thread). Explains how the breakdown may have occurred.



1. The Secret Service employ a multi-tiered defense in depth approach to protective missions. An inner tier offer close protection support, these being the agents you see rushing in and surrounding Trump after the initial shots go off.

A second middle tier is tasked with identifying and defending against mid-range threats, i.g. the crowd, etc. This tier is largely comprised of local and state law enforcement temporarily attached to the security detail. This is the area that I worked on prior details.

Finally, you have an extend tier, which covers long distance threats. This can include counter sniper details and cyber/SIGINT support and CBRN defense.

2. People have wondered how could the counter snipers in the videos not have seen the would be assassin prior to him getting off a shot.
This is because the area of responsibility for those counter snipers on the roof behind Trump was very likely in the extend tier

Essentially they were scanning for threats a great distances well beyond the roughly 150 meters the threat appeared.
This is evidenced by the fact that the elevated counter sniper has to dramatically drop his line of sight to respond to the shooter.

Secret Service advanced teams would have absolutely pre-scouted the location and identified the building the shooter used as a vulnerable spot in the defense.
Which begs the question, how was this guy still able to climb on the roof and get off a shot?

Based on limited details at this point, IMO, the security breakdown occurred in the middle tier, which would likely include law enforcement who were supposed to be assigned to the area near the outbuildings.

How that significant of a breakdown could occur is up for speculation. However, like I said this tier is largely dependent on local law enforcement and not the Secret Service. So speculatively, the local LEOs who were supposed to be in the area and make sure no one with a gun climbed up on the roof, f*cked up.

3. People have said that witnesses saw the guy with the gun on the roof, told police, but that they failed to respond and prevent the assassination attempt.
So how does that happen?

Well, there’s typically limited lines communication between the Secret Service and the local LEOs working the middle tier.
You usually have one or two local LEO liaisons who have direct communication with the Secret Service, which means communications on the ground

between the local LEOs being told about the shooter are being routed through dispatch, to local liaisons, then to Secret Service.

Compounding the difficulty to rapidly respond is the fact that there’s always some confusion and inefficiency when multiple different LEO

agencies come together to work a detail. Most of these agencies aren’t used to working with each other and aren’t given much information beyond a few pre-event briefings.

I actually saw what can go wrong in these scenarios first-hand when President Bush’s Secret Service detail almost engaged a local police SWAT/counter sniper team during the 2004 G8 summit. No one had properly communicated the local SWAT team’s position so all the

Secret Service saw was heavily armed individuals with a line of sight on the President.
The whole thing was seconds away from being a tragic incident.

In this same vein, there was likely some delay and confusion with the initial reports of a person with a gun on the roof

as local cops and Secret Service agents would all be trying to confirm the shooter didn’t belong to one of the security support teams.

So in summary, when looking for blame in this massive security failure, if I was a betting man, I’d say the answer rests with whatever detail (likely local LEOs) were assigned to the area near the outbuildings.

I’ll also add that I worked 5 Presidential details as a local LEO attachment. Even though I was in close proximity for each detail, in only 2 of them did I actually ever see the President or Vice President. That was Bush, while he was in the limo driving away. And Chaney

but that was because I was on an inner position, feet away from him.
You’re explicitly trained that your eyes are always on the crowd, surroundings and potential threats.
Never on the President themselves.
For obvious reasons…

Now my experience is entirely limited to official presidential visits, which are planned at least months and in some cases a year in advance.
It’s likely that some of the breakdowns or issues I mentioned can be exponentially increased when it comes to campaign trips as these stops can come up or change on very short notice.

This series of replies also helped answer a few of my questions.

 
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@24TIGER

Who loses their job over this?

In your experience and knowledge of this incident, are the breakdowns specific to this event or do you feel the breakdown started in a higher level?

Do you know anyone who was on this detail yesterday?

Is it more likely this was orchestrated by greater powers or more likely a lone 20 year old gone rogue?
 
Just curious. Why is there a need for women and people of different shapes and sizes?

Maybe a better way of asking, why wouldn’t you just want qualified people regardless of sex and size?
Yes you want the best people qualified regardless. My point is I’m sure there are qualified women who are tall enough to protect someone like Kamala Harris who isn’t tall enough. And I’m sure there are men who are 5’7 who are bad asses and can guard the car or be a spotter on the ground.

This is a horrible example but for some reason it popped in my head in oceans 11 they had a small Chinese gymnast that they needed to fit in small places. I can see the secret service needing people with different skill sets like that.

With that said the group of agents in front of whoever they are defending should all be bigger than the person they are defending. If you are on that immediate shield line of protection whatever the height is of that person you should damn well have 6 people able to shield him that are bigger than him. I honestly can’t think of any reason otherwise.
 
Great details here (have to open to scroll through thread). Explains how the breakdown may have occurred.



1. The Secret Service employ a multi-tiered defense in depth approach to protective missions. An inner tier offer close protection support, these being the agents you see rushing in and surrounding Trump after the initial shots go off.

A second middle tier is tasked with identifying and defending against mid-range threats, i.g. the crowd, etc. This tier is largely comprised of local and state law enforcement temporarily attached to the security detail. This is the area that I worked on prior details.

Finally, you have an extend tier, which covers long distance threats. This can include counter sniper details and cyber/SIGINT support and CBRN defense.

2. People have wondered how could the counter snipers in the videos not have seen the would be assassin prior to him getting off a shot.
This is because the area of responsibility for those counter snipers on the roof behind Trump was very likely in the extend tier

Essentially they were scanning for threats a great distances well beyond the roughly 150 meters the threat appeared.
This is evidenced by the fact that the elevated counter sniper has to dramatically drop his line of sight to respond to the shooter.

Secret Service advanced teams would have absolutely pre-scouted the location and identified the building the shooter used as a vulnerable spot in the defense.
Which begs the question, how was this guy still able to climb on the roof and get off a shot?

Based on limited details at this point, IMO, the security breakdown occurred in the middle tier, which would likely include law enforcement who were supposed to be assigned to the area near the outbuildings.

How that significant of a breakdown could occur is up for speculation. However, like I said this tier is largely dependent on local law enforcement and not the Secret Service. So speculatively, the local LEOs who were supposed to be in the area and make sure no one with a gun climbed up on the roof, f*cked up.

3. People have said that witnesses saw the guy with the gun on the roof, told police, but that they failed to respond and prevent the assassination attempt.
So how does that happen?

Well, there’s typically limited lines communication between the Secret Service and the local LEOs working the middle tier.
You usually have one or two local LEO liaisons who have direct communication with the Secret Service, which means communications on the ground

between the local LEOs being told about the shooter are being routed through dispatch, to local liaisons, then to Secret Service.

Compounding the difficulty to rapidly respond is the fact that there’s always some confusion and inefficiency when multiple different LEO

agencies come together to work a detail. Most of these agencies aren’t used to working with each other and aren’t given much information beyond a few pre-event briefings.

I actually saw what can go wrong in these scenarios first-hand when President Bush’s Secret Service detail almost engaged a local police SWAT/counter sniper team during the 2004 G8 summit. No one had properly communicated the local SWAT team’s position so all the

Secret Service saw was heavily armed individuals with a line of sight on the President.
The whole thing was seconds away from being a tragic incident.

In this same vein, there was likely some delay and confusion with the initial reports of a person with a gun on the roof

as local cops and Secret Service agents would all be trying to confirm the shooter didn’t belong to one of the security support teams.

So in summary, when looking for blame in this massive security failure, if I was a betting man, I’d say the answer rests with whatever detail (likely local LEOs) were assigned to the area near the outbuildings.

I’ll also add that I worked 5 Presidential details as a local LEO attachment. Even though I was in close proximity for each detail, in only 2 of them did I actually ever see the President or Vice President. That was Bush, while he was in the limo driving away. And Chaney

but that was because I was on an inner position, feet away from him.
You’re explicitly trained that your eyes are always on the crowd, surroundings and potential threats.
Never on the President themselves.
For obvious reasons…

Now my experience is entirely limited to official presidential visits, which are planned at least months and in some cases a year in advance.
It’s likely that some of the breakdowns or issues I mentioned can be exponentially increased when it comes to campaign trips as these stops can come up or change on very short notice.

This series of replies also helped answer a few of my questions.

That’s. A good summary and certainly helps explain some questions
 
I know y’all have a lot of questions (I’ve received more than my fair share).

I have as many questions as I have answers, so it’s been a struggle.

I’ll try to answer as many as I can, as soon as possible.

Sorry for any delay. Going to be a process.

Just thinking that it would be more efficient in one thread.
IMG-0592.png
Thank you for your service and I respect you and law enforcement in the highest regard.

I would greatly appreciate your thoughts on this video. I am not a conspiracy theorist type of guy but this is absolutely terrifying to see. It simply comes off as total incompetence if spectators are telling police and Secret Service for minutes that there is a guy on the roof with a gun.

https://www.bbc.com/news/videos/c51...te=1&user_id=8a9b251987c2b10f443d45e038b8e128
 
@24TIGER I asked in other thread but I'll ask here...

Do attempts like this occur more often than the public is aware of?
As I heard a former SS guy say on tv this morning, things like this happen ( not to this extent) but things happen and he mentioned he the SS will make changes but that they can be far to reactive instead of proactive.
 
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How lucky we are to count you as a member of our community, @24TIGER I immediately thought of you yesterday when this happened.

My only question is one asked already a few times, but I think it’s the most glaring issue.

Why was that rooftop not sealed and manned by a good guy? Is there ever a manpower issue with the USSS? I just can’t imagine the agency being charged with protection of our biggest political assets being faced with the question of “do we put a guy here or there”
 
thanks for sharing...good info
That’s really a great breakdown and explains some things. She comes off very intelligent. This maybe too political if so please delete because that’s the last thing I want to be. But it really chaps my ass when she says funding and cost are an issue when we are spending billions and billions to other countries. I understand costs have to be cut somewhere but cutting them from the secret service and the people put in charge of protecting our political leaders is bullshit. They should have the funds they need to perform the job
 
I was just talking to my wife about the sniper delay. I am unaware of any communication he may or may not have received.
Photographers and deer hunters may understand that when looking through a long telescopic lens the field of view is very narrow, maybe only a foot or two wide. Very often you have to ‘hunt around’ for your subject with your lens and perhaps with your naked eye. This appears to be what the sniper behind Trump does.
There needed to be a somebody with binoculars up there to properly scan wide swaths of rooftops and not long lens scopes looking a few feet at a time trying to cover the two rooftops near the shooter.
 
That’s really a great breakdown and explains some things. She comes off very intelligent. This maybe too political if so please delete because that’s the last thing I want to be. But it really chaps my ass when she says funding and cost are an issue when we are spending billions and billions to other countries. I understand costs have to be cut somewhere but cutting them from the secret service and the people put in charge of protecting our political leaders is bullshit. They should have the funds they need to perform the job
See the Holy Roman Empire and how that worked out for them.

Shoot….. just watch Gladiator. They talk about being overextended long before it came crashing down.
 
That’s really a great breakdown and explains some things. She comes off very intelligent. This maybe too political if so please delete because that’s the last thing I want to be. But it really chaps my ass when she says funding and cost are an issue when we are spending billions and billions to other countries. I understand costs have to be cut somewhere but cutting them from the secret service and the people put in charge of protecting our political leaders is bullshit. They should have the funds they need to perform the job

I think that is a fair statement honestly and a question that I believe is warranted since another SS agent stated the funding was an issue. Does Billy believe the funding to successfully do their job as a SS agent is satisfactory?
 
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