Nothing to disagree with here. And for the record I was always against the vaccine requirements placed on employers
Healthy young people are dying suddenly and unexpectedly from a mysterious syndrome - as doctors seek answers through a new national register
- Thread starter TigerGrowls
- Start date
yea like where i said "tiptoe'ing around the suspected culprit for the time being, preferring to let it all fall under covid" ...i read the article, its why i sent it. look, the reality of the data is post vaccine distribution there has been an uptick in excess deaths, which is in itself a bit of an indictment of the vaccines effectiveness, no? beyond that, the demographic shift of excess deaths to ages previously largely seeing minimal numbers is, if nothing else, suspicious. you think public companies and rating agencies are going to be throwing around their yet unproven suspicions? thats not how the world works.
itll take time to sort it all out, there remains some chance "the science" will be right about something for the first time since covid started. im choosing to side with common sense, especially given what weve seen from the pfizer data being released monthly. if you honestly can believe young, healthy people dropping dead at an extremely elevated level shortly after a eua vaccine using mrna for the first time - when this was not occurring in pre vaccine covid world - are doing so from covid, climate change, stress and whatever else they explain it with, then you have my full support. i mean if that explanation doesnt scream they honestly think i'll believe anything idno what will..
Man, I can tell you're not a dummy but it never ceases to amaze me how even the smartest people can be fooled when they indulge too much misinformation. Unless you're just a vaccine denialist influenced by the the political disinformation surrounding the science, some of your talking points are commonly known and easily explained....unless you just choose to ignore the overwhelming evidence that the vaccines are safe and effective.
I will explain again that the vaccine was targeting the original Wuhan strain, not the variants that came after. It is well known that the Delta and Omicron variants were exponentially more transmissible and were often able to evade the protections provided by the vaccine. That and that alone was the reason why so many more people were infected and died. More people becoming infected = more complications. But the statistic that should stand out to you is that the deaths were still heavily slanted towards the unvaccinated, so even though vaccinated people were still able to acquire an infection, the vaccine did it's job by keeping them out of the ICU...and the morgue.
Call me crazy but I will choose to believe the majority of the world's scientists and the medical community that say the vaccine is safe and effective and hasn't contributed to excess deaths. I know it's popular these days(among some) to disbelieve everything you hear from all the world's experts, all news outlets and all government agencies while only believing alternate facts with no evidence to support them - but if I'm a fool, so be it.
Fact Check-No evidence that people aged 25-44 experienced an 84% increase in excess mortality due to COVID vaccine rollout
Social media users are sharing the false claim that people aged 25 to 44 in the United States experienced an 84% increase in excess mortality due to the COVID-19 vaccine rollout.
www.reuters.com
Just curious what vaccine did you choose? I did Pfizer both times and am glad that I got itMan, I can tell you're not a dummy but it never ceases to amaze me how even the smartest people can be fooled when they indulge too much misinformation. Unless you're just a vaccine denialist influenced by the the political disinformation surrounding the science, some of your talking points are commonly known and easily explained....unless you just choose to ignore the overwhelming evidence that the vaccines are safe and effective.
I will explain again that the vaccine was targeting the original Wuhan strain, not the variants that came after. It is well known that the Delta and Omicron variants were exponentially more transmissible and were often able to evade the protections provided by the vaccine. That and that alone was the reason why so many more people were infected and died. More people becoming infected = more complications. But the statistic that should stand out to you is that the deaths were still heavily slanted towards the unvaccinated, so even though vaccinated people were still able to acquire an infection, the vaccine did it's job by keeping them out of the ICU...and the morgue.
Call me crazy but I will choose to believe the majority of the world's scientists and the medical community that say the vaccine is safe and effective and hasn't contributed to excess deaths. I know it's popular these days(among some) to disbelieve everything you hear from all the world's experts, all news outlets and all government agencies while only believing alternate facts with no evidence to support them - but if I'm a fool, so be it.
Fact Check-No evidence that people aged 25-44 experienced an 84% increase in excess mortality due to COVID vaccine rollout
Social media users are sharing the false claim that people aged 25 to 44 in the United States experienced an 84% increase in excess mortality due to the COVID-19 vaccine rollout.
Biased interpretation on your part. It doesnt look that way to me and others.
Alex Berenson is all over this story.
alexberenson.substack.com
Stunning official Canadian data show vaccines now RAISE the risk of death from Covid
Vaccinated people are now more likely to be hospitalized or die from Covid, even after adjusting for fact they're older than the unvaccinated, a…
alexberenson.substack.com
 | Stunning official Canadian data show vaccines now RAISE the risk of death from CovidAlex BerensonJul 15 Vaccinated people are now more likely to be hospitalized or die from Covid, even after adjusting for fact they're older than the unvaccinated, according to official government estimates from the Canadian province of Manitoba. In May, the most recent month for which figures are available, only 9 percent of Covid deaths and 14 percent of hospital admissions in Manitoba occurred among unvaccinated people, even though they are 17 percent of the population. Manitoba, which has about 1.4 million residents, also provides figures that are adjusted for the fact that vaccinated and boosted people tend to be older. Those show that in May, vaccinated but unboosted people were about 50 percent more likely to be hospitalized or die of Covid than unvaccinated people. People who had received boosters had roughly the same risk of hospitalization or death as the unvaccinated. (Red is unvaccinated, green is vaccinated, blue is boosted. See how the green bar is higher? That means vaccinated people are more likely to die of Covid. Otherwise, everything is fine.)   SOURCE Subscribe These figures and estimates differ markedly from those the Centers for Disease Control have provided for American Covid deaths. But they are likely to be far more accurate. American hospitals and health authorities classify Covid deaths and hospitalizations as occurring in the unvaccinated until proven otherwise. Countries with national health insurance can match their vaccination registries more easily against hospital admissions and deaths, and they have consistently shown much higher percentages of Covid deaths in vaccinated people. Still, the data from Manitoba appear to mark the first time that any government agency has actually found a higher risk of death in vaccinated people. |
Military Deaths Need Closer Examination
A young infantry sergeant died at Fort Carson on Wednesday morning. I’m told, secondhand through a retired NCO with family on the post, that he had a heart attack during physical training. A public affairs officer at Fort Carson confirms the death, but was unable to provide details regarding the...
chrisbray.substack.com
Man, I can tell you're not a dummy but it never ceases to amaze me how even the smartest people can be fooled when they indulge too much misinformation. Unless you're just a vaccine denialist influenced by the the political disinformation surrounding the science, some of your talking points are commonly known and easily explained....unless you just choose to ignore the overwhelming evidence that the vaccines are safe and effective.
I will explain again that the vaccine was targeting the original Wuhan strain, not the variants that came after. It is well known that the Delta and Omicron variants were exponentially more transmissible and were often able to evade the protections provided by the vaccine. That and that alone was the reason why so many more people were infected and died. More people becoming infected = more complications. But the statistic that should stand out to you is that the deaths were still heavily slanted towards the unvaccinated, so even though vaccinated people were still able to acquire an infection, the vaccine did it's job by keeping them out of the ICU...and the morgue.
Call me crazy but I will choose to believe the majority of the world's scientists and the medical community that say the vaccine is safe and effective and hasn't contributed to excess deaths. I know it's popular these days(among some) to disbelieve everything you hear from all the world's experts, all news outlets and all government agencies while only believing alternate facts with no evidence to support them - but if I'm a fool, so be it.
Fact Check-No evidence that people aged 25-44 experienced an 84% increase in excess mortality due to COVID vaccine rollout
Social media users are sharing the false claim that people aged 25 to 44 in the United States experienced an 84% increase in excess mortality due to the COVID-19 vaccine rollout.
no vaccine denialist, dont think theres any conspiracy with vaccine or anything of the like. i do think there were shortcuts taken in testing and approvals that no one wants to acknowledge now because of the credibility hit and collateral damage of that. i do think anyone vulnerable should get it. i do not think any young and healthy people need to, and never, ever should have been forced to. i found out id had it only because i took an antibody test, no idea when i did. i was around the same people every day during the week and none came down with it. not everyone is asymptomatic but generally speaking severe reactions in younger demographics are very, very rare. so when the people previously unaffected start dropping dead post vaccine distribution, id at the very least expect there to be some urgency and transparency in acknowledging this issue with a genuine open-minded effort to get some answers. the science ignores the issue and shouts down questioning, the little you see it talked about in mainstream circles just throws out some talking points to belittle questioning. i have a problem with that.
these are the same people who shouted down the lab leak theory. they were forced to at least acknowledge that one but continue to obfuscate the subject. fauci is the guy who coordinated with the media to shout down and crush the idea put forward by scientists (from oxford, mit, and stanford i believe) that shutting down economies with lockdowns was the wrong approach. then did a little touchdown dance with the media when he succeeded. in hindsight, its clear that lockdowns were a net incalculable cost to society. masking was pointless, sure theres masks that work, but most people had a piece of cloth that did almost nothing. they said if you got the vaccine you couldnt get or transmit the virus....that was a bold faced lie. they said the efficacy levels were in the high 90s, that was a lie. they said once you got your shots you were done, that was a lie. the government said there'd be no vaccine mandate, that was a lie only eliminated by the court. they coordinated with social media to remove anyone questioning the narrative. not just the whackos with wild theories, people with scientific backgrounds with valid questions / objections to policy/vaccine info. they resisted being questioned in any and all ways - if you cant be questioned i dont trust you. i dont have to agree with everything, but if you need to silence or avoid being questioned while making a statements and decisions that are continually proven to be lies or wrong, why would anyone believe you?
theres plenty of scientists and medical professionals who dont buy what theyre selling - hospitals have been hit by staffing shortages because of the number of doctors and nurses not allowed to work for being unvaccinated. these people just arent allowed to have a voice in the conversation, because there is no conversation. like i said, if you cant be questioned, or you cant explore the idea of your potential fallibility, nothing you pontificate carries any credibility.
I got Moderna (the Trump vaccine) for the first two shots and Pfizer for the booster.
Thanks for the respectful dialogue but that entire second paragraph smacks of the propaganda spouted by the right-wing disinformation machine, so if we can't agree what the facts are, we're just talking past each other.
If there are doctors and nurses that refuse to get vaccinated then they shouldn't be in the profession in the first place. The safety of their patients should be a priority before their politics. Though misplaced, I'm sure there are some that have a genuine concern about the science, but for most, I doubt that was the reasoning behind their decision. The impact of those who left the field was negligible so I say good riddance.
“If you look at healthcare systems that have actually mandated this, they’ve retained over 99% of their workforce,” he said in support of the mandates during an August press event. “Their workforce does go along when the employer requires it.”
What is the age and comorbidity status of those dying from modern COVID? I’m familiar with the stats from OG COVID, but haven’t checked in on it recently.
Looks like around 9k people under 50 have died in all of 2022 “involving” COVID, meaning COVID may not have even been the cause. That drops to around 3k when you look under 40. Quick check on the CDC website
3k out of around 166 million people. Or, 0.0018%.
And I’m guessing this tiny group was riddled with obesity and other comorbidities.
To reiterate, we should treat it like the flu. Get a vaccine if you want, but nobody cares if you do or don’t. Zero travel restrictions, no masking, test if you happen to go to the doctor (like the flu swab), etc. No panic, no anxiousness, no virtue signaling, no judging.
It’s time. We can all move on.
How many of those 9000 people would still be alive if they were vaxxed and boosted? Probably most of them is what the data shows. Beyond that, you are more likely to get infected if you are unvaxxed and the transmissibility is what creates the new variants. We may have a handle on it now but who knows how deadly the next variant will be. Getting vaxxed just makes sense no matter how you slice it and should be encouraged.
I agree with everything else you said - it's time to live with it.
"For the month of March, “unvaccinated people 12 years and older had 17 times the rate of COVID-associated deaths, compared to people vaccinated with a primary series and a booster dose,” says Commissioned Corps of the U.S. Public Health Service commander Heather Scobie, deputy team lead for surveillance and analytics at the CDC’s Epidemiology Task Force.* “Unvaccinated people had eight times the rate of death as compared to people who only had a primary series,” suggesting that boosters increase the level of protection.
It is also important to consider the ages of those who are dying. People 65 and older make up the group that is both the most likely to be vaccinated (and boosted) and the most likely to die of COVID. (Being older is one of the biggest risk factors for severe COVID because the immune system weakens with age.) So when you separate the age groups, it becomes even clearer that vaccination reduces the risk of death. And because immune protection from vaccination wanes with time, and because some older people do not mount a good immune response to the primary series, being boosted reduces that risk even further."
How to Compare COVID Deaths for Vaccinated and Unvaccinated People
The death rate among unvaccinated people is still far higher than that among the vaccinated even though vaccinated people now make up a significant proportion of deaths
www.scientificamerican.com
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If you would be a responsible adult, maybe we could all stop talking about it.
How many of those 9000 people would still be alive if they were vaxxed and boosted? Probably most of them is what the data shows. Beyond that, you are more likely to get infected if you are unvaxxed and the transmissibility is what creates the new variants. We may have a handle on it now but who knows how deadly the next variant will be. Getting vaxxed just makes sense no matter how you slice it and should be encouraged.
I agree with everything else you said - it's time to live with it.
"For the month of March, “unvaccinated people 12 years and older had 17 times the rate of COVID-associated deaths, compared to people vaccinated with a primary series and a booster dose,” says Commissioned Corps of the U.S. Public Health Service commander Heather Scobie, deputy team lead for surveillance and analytics at the CDC’s Epidemiology Task Force.* “Unvaccinated people had eight times the rate of death as compared to people who only had a primary series,” suggesting that boosters increase the level of protection.
It is also important to consider the ages of those who are dying. People 65 and older make up the group that is both the most likely to be vaccinated (and boosted) and the most likely to die of COVID. (Being older is one of the biggest risk factors for severe COVID because the immune system weakens with age.) So when you separate the age groups, it becomes even clearer that vaccination reduces the risk of death. And because immune protection from vaccination wanes with time, and because some older people do not mount a good immune response to the primary series, being boosted reduces that risk even further."
Those with significant comorbidities should probably get vaccinated. Based on the overwhelming trend of this virus, the vast vast majority of those 9k likely had significant comorbidities. So if they were a fat with diabeetus, it was a probably a mistake not to get vaxxed and perhaps some of them would still be with us. But we shouldn’t apply the same vaccine rationale to someone in good shape and good health.
Dr. Birx Tosses Tony Fauci Under the Bus: COVID 'Came Out of a Box Ready to Infect' and Made in China | The Gateway Pundit | by Jim Hoft | 2
In April 2020 The Gateway Pundit reported that Chinese Doctor Shi Zhengli was part of a team working on a coronavirus project jointly with US doctors in 2014 in North Carolina before it was shut down by the DHS for being too risky.
www.thegatewaypundit.com
Dr. Birx Tosses Tony Fauci Under the Bus: COVID ‘Came Out of a Box Ready to Infect’ and Made in China
By Jim HoftPublished July 17, 2022 at 4:45pm
In April 2020 The Gateway Pundit reported that Chinese Doctor Shi Zhengli was part of a team working on a coronavirus project jointly with US doctors in 2014 in North Carolina before it was shut down by the DHS for being too risky.
After the US research project was shut down, Dr. Shi continued her coronavirus research in Wuhan, China.
It’s also important to note that back in 2017 we had solid intelligence about a viral leak in a high-security Chinese virology R&D center that resulted in the SARS virus getting out and killing people.
The leader of the US task force overseeing the country’s response to the China coronavirus, Dr. Tony Fauci, was the one who funded the Wuhan bat virus work and kept it going.
TRENDING: PART II: Another Video Depicting the Impossibility of the 2020 Election Results - This Time Fulton County, Georgia
In September 2021, President Trump joined The Gateway Pundit for a short interview. During our discussion, the topic of Dr. Fauci came up.
Dr. Fauci worked for President Trump but he apparently he never told the President that he was providing a grant to China related to the COVID virus.
Fauci was funding the viral research at the Wuhan lab. He had been funding the lab for years.
In fact, Dr. Fauci allegedly funded at least 60 different projects and studies at the Wuhan laboratory.
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. later accused the US military and intelligence of also being involved in funding dangerous gain-of -function laboratories.
Fauci has denied he funded the Wuhan laboratory gain of function research. Fauci even denied this under oath despite a mountain of evidence to the contrary.
On Sunday, Dr. Deborah Birx told The Daily Mail the COVID virus “came of the box ready to infect” and was likely created in a lab.
It looks like Dr. Birx finally came clean and tossed Tony Fauci under the bus at the same time.
The Daily Mail reported:
Wow! Young highly trained athlete drops dead while jogging.
and in the actual article they state that the vaccine was not the cause and couldn't have been the causeWow! Young highly trained athlete drops dead while jogging.
Likewise on dialogue, im all for cracking jokes on subjects but being able to have a conversation from opposing perspectives is important and increasingly rare. People have to recognize peoples opinions on all sides are almost always well intentioned. And i personally enjoy having my perspective challenged, im not above being wrong and always open to considering opposing views i may not have considered.
i dont at all think its fair to dismiss those points as a right wing disinformation machine. thats quite frankly a lazy catch all the left has turned to so as to not have to defend its argument. these are the same people who literally just got exposed for running 3 years of disinformation on some russian conspiracy wild goose chase.
fact of the matter is you can contest whether or not masks make any difference - i dont because almost no one wears ones that would and everyone else is walking around in a flimsy cloth virtue signal. you can make a case for believing in lockdowns, although given the mounting evidence of substantial negative impacts both realized (domestic abuse/divorces/mental health/drug abuse etc) and the future impact of those and how childhood development was stunted, im not sure how. we can have our own opinions on the severity of the virus given statistical data available and how far we should have gone to prevent spread across society against the cost of doing so. arriving at separate conclusions shouldnt be right wing or left wing. i wasnt taking the shots when trump held office either. my stance on the virus / vaccine is apolitical. none of my positions on masks/vaccine/lockdowns were formed by a politicians words.
what you cannot contest, and certainly not "right wing disinformation" are the lies or silencing i mentioned. joe biden stood at a podium and told the country you couldnt get or transmit the virus if you were vaccinated. that is indisputable. fauci did coordinate efforts to silence qualified and reasonable ideas on how to best manage life with the virus that conflicted with his own. that is indisputable. social media companies - and youre living under a rock if you think they operated without federal encouragement - did silence qualified and reasonable opinions that were contrary to the narrative of the cdc fauci etc. maybe you think every single one of them is a loon because they challenged the science at all and so should have been silenced, but that would be a pretty extreme position to take. there were doctors and medical experts with highly qualified backgrounds eliminated from any conversation. they absolutely coordinated to crush the lab leak theory, again theres plenty of available evidence demonstrating they wanted no part of this being looked into early on. this stuff is not "right wing disinformation". these are veritable truths that have taken place whether you choose to acknowledge as such or not.
so we can agree to disagree, its not about changing an opinion. but all things you may not want to believe being chalked up as disinformation is not a strong case. ultimately i arrive at we destroyed lives and our economy, along with unknown future damage in an effort to stop the spread of a virus a very small percent of the population is put at severe risk by. the bullsht pulled along the way by the science just makes the damage done shift from ignorance to evil on its part. congress is a pack of 1000 year old morons, yet none of them bit the radish from this. many were living it up throughout as they told you to sit inside...no truth in their words, none
Everywhere you look, errybody is dropping dead from this vaccine that is flushed from their bodies after three days! It's a conspiracy and we're not talking about it enough! 🤯
That's what is being stated but we do not know that as a certain fact.
I am referring to your statement that the vaccine is flushed from the body in 3 days. Not a proven fact.
All these reports in the VAERS system are made up and fake reports. All these people are crazy and have mental problems and want to make shit up in order to confuse the doctors. Don't listen to their made up conditions. The governement knows that they made up these so-called "symptoms". Listen to the experts! Trust the science! The exprets have never been wrong about anything. Gobble gobble.
Vaccinate your child. They have zero risk from covid but, hey, take this experimental vaccine ....err preventative therapeutic! gobble gobble
If you are still using VAERS to justify your false beliefs about the vaccine, you probably have a KidRock poster above your bed.
If we explained it to you for the thousandth time, would it make a difference?
Well you are selectively choosing what govt data to trust or not to trust based on what?
Government data, LOL. User data that anyone can upload, including people who want to spread fear by posting misinformation about a vaccine, or doctors who are required to load any adverse event after a vaccination, even though most are coincidental and have nothing to do with the vaccine. It's no different than someone reporting an adverse event after eating a bowl of Cinnamon Toast Crunch. If you have a heart attack a month after eating it, are you going to blame cereal for it? That's what GWP readers do, not medical professionals.
Doctors did find a rare event caused by the J&J vaccine (1 in over a million) by using VAERS, otherwise after investigating adverse events and deaths reported on VAERS, they have found virtually nothing that implicates mRNA vaccines.
Please expand the reading material you ingest.
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Healthy 35 year old Notre Dame football player dies while on a run. Heart Attack. Nothing to see here folks. The experts and science say move right along. Heil Fauci!
Former Notre Dame offensive lineman has died at 35
The 35-year-old, who also had a short stint with the Denver Broncos, leaves behind a wife and two daughters.
LMFAO. No one ever died of a heart attack before the vaccine! I hope you noted it didn't mention the vaccine either, so only a simpleton would draw that conclusion.Healthy 35 year old Notre Dame football player dies while on a run. Heart Attack. Nothing to see here folks. The experts and science say move right along. Heil Fauci!
Former Notre Dame offensive lineman has died at 35
The 35-year-old, who also had a short stint with the Denver Broncos, leaves behind a wife and two daughters.www.pennlive.com
Look man, the gig is up. Biden's numbers are in the tank so getting a vaccine won't help him look better now. You no longer have to fearmonger to keep your fellow MAGAs from doing the right thing. It's ridiculous
Why would i get a preventative therapeutic that dosen't stop transmission? Why would you care if someone else got the vaccine?
At this point, I really don't but why do you insist on trying to frighten people from getting it??
Almost 80% of the population has had at least one COVID shot so it's just 20% of the population that hasn't. Are you trying to suggest we're all gonna die or just keep trying to keep others from getting it? What's the point?
I'm not trying to frighten anyone. I just think people should have access to the proper information. This is not a riskless shot. People do have adverse reactions to the shot and people have died after receiving the shot. Those are indisputable facts. I can accept those facts and still realize that it is safe for the large majority, but that is different from safe for everyone.
The long term effects of the shot are not known. Again, an indisputable fact. Well known and respected doctors have suggested the risk does not outweigh the benefits of the shot.
My point is that an unproven preventative therapy should be an individual choice. Any mandate or coercion by the government, or anyone else, is disgusting.
The fact that the shot does not prevent transmission should render mute your opinion on anyone else's decision to get the shot.
I dont think the % of the population who has recieved the shot is that high. I think its more like 60-65% and the percent that has received 2 shots is more like 50%.
God forbid we have a real pandemic, the government has ruined its credibility and won't get near the compliance going forward.
No, mRNA Covid vaccines do not offer long-term protection from serious illness
Data from the Dutch government show the opposite - after seven months they substantially RAISE the risk of hospitalization and intensive care
@dpic73
No, mRNA Covid vaccines do not offer long-term protection from serious illness
Data from the Dutch government show the opposite - after seven months they substantially RAISE the risk of hospitalization and intensive care
alexberenson.substack.com
Lol, using Alex Berenson - a writer and conspiracy theorist to prove a point is Qrazy. mRNA has been studied for decades and is used for cancer and other diseases. Just because you can find a rare severe reaction out of hundreds of millions of people, proves nothing. The stat you should care about is 80% of the people who have died are unvaccinated. I'll trust the worldwide medical community over your far right propagandists, who are looking for attention. Why don't you indulge the overwhelming evidence to the contrary of your theses? 🤔No, mRNA Covid vaccines do not offer long-term protection from serious illness
Data from the Dutch government show the opposite - after seven months they substantially RAISE the risk of hospitalization and intensive care
@dpic73
No, mRNA Covid vaccines do not offer long-term protection from serious illness
Data from the Dutch government show the opposite - after seven months they substantially RAISE the risk of hospitalization and intensive care
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