HS football/American Flag unbelievable

[ELR1981]

so the post about 7 posts up isnt implying that foreign language requirements are ruining our country?

do you have some other explanation for your point that foreign language requirements shouldnt be allowed because we live in america?

No, I was just exposing the beautiful flower that's produced to uninformed "brainless" Americans. The root is the problem. I was just scratching the surface with that post. So, while we are asking questions. What do you think of an American kid having to learn a different language just to graduate in an American school? I say it should be optional, for those that want to work in foreign relations. Change did happen. But sadly it wasn't for the best interest of the country. It was just a part of making history. Like the presidential race today. Hillary wants to be the first female president. Donald duck trump wants to be the first egotistical celebrity to be president. Can you imagine the presidential race 4 years from now? Small holes in the boat will eventually make the boat sink. Like I said, that was a small issue that comes from the root. I just wish people cared less about themselves and more about country. Then people would matter. Most are just here to gain and not give.

 

[OldCUTFan]

Here is an article about an incident in California. The subsequent Supreme Court ruling would seem relevant.

https://heiscomingblog.wordpress.co...ag-t-shirts-offensive-to-mexican-celebration/

 

[iceheart08]

No, I was just exposing the beautiful flower that's produced to uninformed "brainless" Americans. The root is the problem. I was just scratching the surface with that post. So, while we are asking questions. What do you think of an American kid having to learn a different language just to graduate in an American school? I say it should be optional, for those that want to work in foreign relations. Change did happen. But sadly it wasn't for the best interest of the country. It was just a part of making history. Like the presidential race today. Hillary wants to be the first female president. Donald duck trump wants to be the first egotistical celebrity to be president. Can you imagine the presidential race 4 years from now? Small holes in the boat will eventually make the boat sink. Like I said, that was a small issue that comes from the root. I just wish people cared less about themselves and more about country. Then people would matter. Most are just here to gain and not give.

i think it should be a nationwide requirement. you truly think that requiring that students take a few years of a language other than English in high school is a bad thing?

 

[Joe Cobb]

Here is an article about an incident in California. The subsequent Supreme Court ruling would seem relevant.

https://heiscomingblog.wordpress.co...ag-t-shirts-offensive-to-mexican-celebration/

Thank you for the link. The issue I have is that if school officials acted to "prevent violence" then who were the people/students they felt would turn violent? The students wearing a shirt?

To me it sounds as if students that would become easily offended were appeased.

 

[iceheart08]

Thank you for the link. The issue I have is that if school officials acted to "prevent violence" then who were the people/students they felt would turn violent? The students wearing a shirt?

To me it sounds as if students that would become easily offended were appeased.

excuse me? the article references this happening in the past to a school full of Hispanic students (and JUST this particular school), who are OVERWHELMINGLY LIKELY to be american citizens. never mind that the national anthem was played and the flag flown during it, without incident or offense taken by the Hispanic students.

sooo what you are saying is that, these Americans, who are being taunted (wrongly) with an american flag, have no right to be offended at being automatically characterized as unamerican because of the color of their skin?

 

[tb!rd]

So it's dishonoring the flag to keep kids from dishonoring the flag?

If a bunch of kids bring little American flags to a football game for the single purpose of mocking hispanic kids, then they weren't honoring the flag, they were using it as a prop.

Some sad, ignorant folk up in this thread.

I would whip my kid's ass for being a racist prick and using the Stars and Stripes as a punchline.

Kids will be kids, I get it, but it's the adults job to teach them to be smarter. Principal made right call and gave a solid explanation, which was probably too long for OP to read.

This has nothing to do with illegals or Trump or being PC. It's a classic example of high school kids being dumb, like we all were.

And if you are ok with your kid ridiculing Mexican kids cause you don't like them being here, then you are next level worthless and your kid probably will be too.

Yep, this......we have a winner.

 

[Joe Cobb]

excuse me? the article references this happening in the past to a school full of Hispanic students (and JUST this particular school), who are OVERWHELMINGLY LIKELY to be american citizens. never mind that the national anthem was played and the flag flown during it, without incident or offense taken by the Hispanic students.

sooo what you are saying is that, these Americans, who are being taunted (wrongly) with an american flag, have no right to be offended at being automatically characterized as unamerican because of the color of their skin?

I have no clue what you are saying. I'm referencing the article linked that discussed students wearing flag shirts to be told to 'take them off or go home' because they could incite violence.

As an administrator I question where the violence would originate from... students wearing shirts or students 'offended' by them. If you are 'disciplining' students for their dress, you better have a better explanation than (I think people may hit them for wearing it)

 

[Joe Cobb]

And back to my original postulation... how does one "taunt" with an American Flag?
I think you can taunt folks in several ways, but to insinuate the only taunting that can occur is with an American Flag is silly. What if folks jangled car keys? I could argue that is taunting poor people who can't afford cars.

 

[Joe Cobb]

Yep, this......we have a winner.

I'm afraid there is absolutely no ability to enforce this. As an administrator you have to have at least a preponderance of evidence to discipline students. If you make this decree, then how do you enforce it?

 

[iceheart08]

I have no clue what you are saying. I'm referencing the article linked that discussed students wearing flag shirts to be told to 'take them off or go home' because they could incite violence.

As an administrator I question where the violence would originate from... students wearing shirts or students 'offended' by them. If you are 'disciplining' students for their dress, you better have a better explanation than (I think people may hit them for wearing it)

this is a concerted effort by students to taunt others based on the assumption that the "others" arent american because of the color of their skin. as an administrator, you have no problem with that?

 

[Joe Cobb]

this is a concerted effort by students to demean others based on the assumption that the "others" arent american because of the color of their skin. as an administrator, you have no problem with that?

Again, I have no clue what you are talking about. I think you are trying to force words into my posts.

If a student yells a racial/ethnic slur at someone... that student can and will be suspended. If a student demeans someone through a malicious action, that student can and will be suspended.

But I'm confused as to how an American Flag can be deemed malicious or how one could enforce the 'opinion' or 'assumption' why the flag was being carried into a stadium.

For example, if a student jumps up and yells a racial/ethnic slur while waiving an American Flag... it's not the flag that will get the student suspended. If a student jumps up an waves the American flag when a team scores... then what in the hell is that student in trouble for? Nothing that could be enforced.

I find it so terribly odd that I'm arguing for personal freedom, accountability and less of a police state with people who pride themselves on stating they are for those very things.

 

[justntime]

you are swimming upstream here @MillerHighLife21 . you are obviously right, the issue isnt the flag, its the way the idiots at the school are using the flag to taunt others. these folks ITT have no interest in understanding, or even reading about, the circumstances that led to the ban. read the responses... this is easily one of the largest collection of idiots TI has ever seen in a single thread.

@iceheart08 and @MillerHighLife21 , you see the trees don't you? You are right the issue is not the flag, because true etiquette would be that the flag is never worn on a shirt, never painted on a face, and never used as hand towel, socks, and never used in a way that relinquishes the very foundation of its theme. Yet we live in a society that does not believe much in the integrity of its on countries basic fundamental ideals. We have stretched and tampered with our foundation so much that now everyone can cry foul and we have to all abruptly change to make people happy. So what this IDIOT sees as you put it ICEHEART, is a school that reacted to a previous incident in the past and worries that OUR flag would offend the Hispanic community ( that's what it said). Therein lies the problem! You are missing the Forrest , gentlemen.

Signed,
TI Idiot group

 

[Joe Cobb]

Rest assured if this was about displaying Rainbow flags at a high school game where the majority of the opposing team was heterosexual, (and which I'd have no problem with) @iceheart08 would have no trouble informing us all of how bigoted we are if one opposed such action.

 

[iceheart08]

Again, I have no clue what you are talking about. I think you are trying to force words into my posts.

If a student yells a racial/ethnic slur at someone... that student can and will be suspended. If a student demeans someone through a malicious action, that student can and will be suspended.

But I'm confused as to how an American Flag can be deemed malicious or how one could enforce the 'opinion' or 'assumption' why the flag was being carried into a stadium.

For example, if a student jumps up and yells a racial/ethnic slur while waiving an American Flag... it's not the flag that will get the student suspended. If a student jumps up an waves the American flag when a team scores... then what in the hell is that student in trouble for? Nothing that could be enforced.

I find it so terribly odd that I'm arguing for personal freedom, accountability and less of a police state with people who pride themselves on stating they are for those very things.

i dont understand what you dont understand. these students dont bring the flag to other games. the flag is displayed elsewhere by the school. the flag is being used by the students ONLY to taunt students at the mostly Hispanic school. why is that ok? the students are using the flag as a form of racial slur.

 

[Joe Cobb]

i dont understand what you dont understand. these students dont bring the flag to other games. the flag is displayed elsewhere by the school. the flag is being used by the students ONLY to taunt students at the mostly Hispanic school. why is that ok? the students are using the flag as a form of racial slur.

My goodness. How do you know that? Better yet, how do you even prove that?

I think you are delving into 'thought police' standards here.

 

[iceheart08]

My goodness. How do you know that? Better yet, how do you even prove that?

I think you are delving into 'thought police' standards here.

That's exactly what the principal said...

To your example. If a school of all gay people were using the gay flag to taunt a bunch of straight people for not being gay I would say those people shouldn't be allowed to wave their flag in the other students faces with the intention of making them feel like outcasts.

 

[CUAngler]

Why is this a difficult concept to grasp?

The American flags were obviously an unwholesome display of 'patriotism'.

That's very strange to say but it's obvious that the students were subversively trying to say they were apart of something, America, that Berea isn't.

 

[tigerjl]

My goodness. How do you know that? Better yet, how do you even prove that?

I think you are delving into 'thought police' standards here.

Joe you are one of my favorite posters on here, but you would have to know the history between these two schools to fully grasp this.

It's very much an organized an calculated thing. No need for thought police.

 

[QCtiger87]

The bottom line is this....if you aren't familiar with the Berea/TR rivalry, you aren't going to understand this situation.

 

[Joe Cobb]

Joe you are one of my favorite posters on here, but you would have to know the history between these two schools to fully grasp this.

It's very much an organized an calculated thing. No need for thought police.

Thank you for the kind words. But I would disagree in regards as to how I grasp this situation. Both as native of Greenville, a school administrator, and parents who live right between TR and Berea, I understand the schism that could exist between those communities. As a graduate of Carolina High, I understand the gap that can exist between races of Americans.

The flag isn't the issue here. You know that.

And to ban or try to enforce a decree like this only adds to the real issue. In fact a much more positive approach would've been to issue flags to the Students at Berea as well.
I'm sorry, but arguing that the US Flag is seen as disrespectful and construed as a tool to advocate ethnic or racial slurs is pretty flimsy. And for a school administrator to argue that they "know" why a Flag was brought to a sporting event scares me as a parent and educator.

School safety is every administrators number one job. Without doubt, I applaud these school administrators for advocating for safety. I know several schools throughout the nation that ban colors from their schools as wearing the wrong color can indicate gang membership. I even understand and could support bans on confederate flags as they can be construed as racist, because there is a precedent for those actions. But I could not support banning an American Flag on US soil because someone deemed it offensive or racist.

Maybe I'm in the wrong here. Wouldn't be the first time. But I'm also very honest. And honestly there is no way (no current law) that would allow me as a school administrator to suspend a student for carrying an American Flag for what I "thought" the student implied with said flag.

 

[EagleScoutCU15]

The bottom line is this....if you aren't familiar with the Berea/TR rivalry, you aren't going to understand this situation.

This. Which one did you attend?

 

[anon_yqoaxol227dby]

My goodness. How do you know that? Better yet, how do you even prove that?

I think you are delving into 'thought police' standards here.

Cobb, I respect your posts and enjoy your football takes; however, on this particular issue, I have to disagree with you.

There are posters ITT who attended TR and have said that they used the flag to taunt Hispanic students at Berea.
As someone born in a Latin American country, I'd be annoyed if this were done to me. And though I don't have children, I'd be royally pissed if my child did this other students based simply on their ethnicity.

 

[QCtiger87]

I attended Travelers Rest but was involved with athletics at Berea for 5 years after that.

 

[QCtiger87]

What about you @EagleScoutCU15

 

[EagleScoutCU15]

What about you @EagleScoutCU15

Graduated from TR in 2011. The insinuation that we were "taunting hispanic students" isn't 100% accurate, as I'm sure you're aware. Most of us grew up going to church with kids from Blue Ridge and Berea, so it was more about taunting kids that we would see in Sunday school a couple of days later. I'm glad we both had our taste of that rivalry before PC bros made us think about every little thing.

Side note, as long as Lavely is getting all of the negative attention I feel like Coach Murphy from Berea should catch some flack for kicking someone out of a game, after paying to get in, because they were waving an American flag.

 

[Joe Cobb]

Threat or intimidation in the state of Georgia in a school is defined as:
"Any threat through written or verbal
language or act which creates a fear of harm
and/or conveys a serious expression of intent
to harm or violence without displaying a
weapon and without subjecting the victim to
actual physical attack."

Bullying is defined as:
"A pattern of behavior, which may include
written, verbal, physical acts, or through a
computer, computer system, computer
network, or other electronic technology
occurring on school property, on school
vehicles, at designated school bus stops, or
at school related functions that is so severe,
persistent, or pervasive so as to have the
effect of substantially interfering with a
student’s education, threatening the
educational environment, or causing
substantial physical harm or visibly bodily harm"

Student Incivility is defined as:
"Insubordination or disrespect to staff
members or other students; includes but is
not limited to refusal to follow school staff
member instructions, use of vulgar or
inappropriate language, and
misrepresentation of the truth."

I list these because this is where an issue like the one we are discussing would fall under (in the state of Georgia). Only Student Incivility would apply based on the language of the situation, and only because one could argue that this would be refusal to follow "staff member instructions."

So while there would be some leeway for a school administrator to discipline a student for carrying a flag after told not to, I would guarantee you that would be a contested decision because you couldn't justify (based on what we've been presented with) an administrator's decision to tell students not to bring a flag.

 

[QCtiger87]

Agree, EagleScout. I was C/O 2005.

Cobb, I'm not the biggest Lavely fan in the world, but, as I'm sure you have experienced, there isn't always a rule or policy that applies to every situation. In these situations, leaders who are "on site" or in the thick of things, have to make decisions using common sense. Lavely made the correct one here. I can certainly understand how someone detached from the history of this situation can be alarmed at the click-bait "headlines", but it was the right decision.

 

[scartiger]

Pretty sure schools in Pickens County have them fixed where you can't change sides once you enter into the stadium. Greenville schools isn't the same way?

 

[Joe Cobb]

@QCtiger87 fair enough.

 

[MillerHighLife21]

No, I was just exposing the beautiful flower that's produced to uninformed "brainless" Americans. The root is the problem. I was just scratching the surface with that post. So, while we are asking questions. What do you think of an American kid having to learn a different language just to graduate in an American school? I say it should be optional, for those that want to work in foreign relations. Change did happen. But sadly it wasn't for the best interest of the country. It was just a part of making history. Like the presidential race today. Hillary wants to be the first female president. Donald duck trump wants to be the first egotistical celebrity to be president. Can you imagine the presidential race 4 years from now? Small holes in the boat will eventually make the boat sink. Like I said, that was a small issue that comes from the root. I just wish people cared less about themselves and more about country. Then people would matter. Most are just here to gain and not give.

I'd actually tend to agree that learning a foreign language should be a requirement and the main reason is that once you learn something once, even if you forget it, relearning it when you need it is something on the scale of 10x faster. That's a main reason for teaching a lot of base level stuff that you might not ever need.

I took German in HS for 2 years. I was pretty terrible at it and it was one of my worst classes in school. I believe I ended up with a C in both classes, but I got the basics including the pronunciation of words. Now I'm in the upstate with BMW and several German parents in my kids classes finding myself really wanting to sit down and relearn it. In HS I had no motivation to learn because I didn't know when if use it (as was the case in many subjects) but now I find that I'm glad to have the baseline.

There are many subjects I'd love to see not required or replaced (virtually every math past algebra 2 replaced with finance and statistics for example).

 

[ELR1981]

Not a bad thing, but it shouldn't be a requirement! I guess I should force my son to learn something that's not going to benefit him in the long run. Unless he feels the call to need a second language that will benifit him in some future job he's thinking of. The point in this is, don't make a second language mandatory to graduate in America.

 

[padtigers]

I'd actually tend to agree that learning a foreign language should be a requirement and the main reason is that once you learn something once, even if you forget it, relearning it when you need it is something on the scale of 10x faster. That's a main reason for teaching a lot of base level stuff that you might not ever need.

I took German in HS for 2 years. I was pretty terrible at it and it was one of my worst classes in school. I believe I ended up with a C in both classes, but I got the basics including the pronunciation of words. Now I'm in the upstate with BMW and several German parents in my kids classes finding myself really wanting to sit down and relearn it. In HS I had no motivation to learn because I didn't know when if use it (as was the case in many subjects) but now I find that I'm glad to have the baseline.

There are many subjects I'd love to see not required or replaced (virtually every math past algebra 2 replaced with finance and statistics for example).

I took a simple Business Math class my Senior year. I liked the teacher and I had to have a class to fill a time slot. BEST math class I ever took. We learned how to count change back from a CASH DRAWER. No calculators or computers. Learned to count change back starting with pennies and working your up through the change. Also learned to balance checkbooks. Learned how to save on the grocery bill. Learned about how simple interest rates factor into payments. Learned the difference in money saved between a 15 and 30 mortgage. Really learned a ton of basic skills that I notice kids lack today. Oh we also learned the difference between a whole life policy and term life policy. Basic common sense things. I used the lessons from that class more than any other math class I took past algebra.

 

[ELR1981]

Who communicates in different languages over here? You either speak English or you get on the phone or go to a doctor and you have someone that has broken english. So, maybe I should learn their language to make it easier for them? Mine is a little hillbilly, but people understand me. If anything, people need to learn our language. Yankee, southern, hillbilly, whatever it may be. You can understand it.

 

[tigerjl]

T

Not a bad thing, but it shouldn't be a requirement! I guess I should force my son to learn something that's not going to benefit him in the long run. Unless he feels the call to need a second language that will benifit him in some future job he's thinking of. The point in this is, don't make a second language mandatory to graduate in America.

If we really want kids to learn a foreign language (which is a good thing for many reasons) it's got to start when they are young.

I agree it's sort of silly for a graduation requirement, but not because I don't think it's imoortant, more because you don't really learn anything the two years you take it in HS.

 

[tigerjl]

I'd actually tend to agree that learning a foreign language should be a requirement and the main reason is that once you learn something once, even if you forget it, relearning it when you need it is something on the scale of 10x faster. That's a main reason for teaching a lot of base level stuff that you might not ever need.

I took German in HS for 2 years. I was pretty terrible at it and it was one of my worst classes in school. I believe I ended up with a C in both classes, but I got the basics including the pronunciation of words. Now I'm in the upstate with BMW and several German parents in my kids classes finding myself really wanting to sit down and relearn it. In HS I had no motivation to learn because I didn't know when if use it (as was the case in many subjects) but now I find that I'm glad to have the baseline.

There are many subjects I'd love to see not required or replaced (virtually every math past algebra 2 replaced with finance and statistics for example).

Personal finance should indeed be a math/business Ed requirement.

 

[Cavitybacks]

I'm grateful to live in America, but I think the whole "pledging allegiance to a flag" is a bit strange.

My allegiance is to Christ. Not a flag. Anyway...moving on.

 

[tb!rd]

Intent: look it up.

Applause for the principal for having a pair and doing the right thing.

Also. A flag is a peice of cloth. Every country has one.

 

[ELR1981]

.
Just let it go people. Don't quote me. I'm not going to change my stance. And the greatest president ever was George Washington, he was forced to presidency by people with a brain, at least a half working brain anyway.

 

[justntime]

excuse me?
sooo what you are saying is that, these Americans, who are being taunted (wrongly) with an american flag, have no right to be offended at being automatically characterized as unamerican because of the color of their skin?

Here we go! Seriously you are taking the context of the issue to a different level. It's sad really, when all else fails throw out the race card?!

 

[kgwillison]

So do the kids at this school that played Berea make a point to bring in American flags to every game they play every year? If they just make a point of doing so against Berea, well then it is pretty clear they are taunting the Hispanic students and engaging in racism. If it is something that these fans do against every opponent as a sign of their patriotism, then it may be a different story.

Since I live 500 miles away, I don't know the history.