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If you doubt the existence of God,

BigTimeTiger said:
No one knows what waits in heaven for those who truly believe in Christ. They are not earthly mansions as you so simply imply. No one can imagine what being in the presence of God is like. Christ described it as something people could relate to at the time hence the term Golden Mansions.
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The Bible is a very convenient book. It's literal when it suits someone's argument, and its figurative/metaphorical when it's convenient for an argument
 
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Steven15 said:
No it doesn't. Complete nonsense. I know it's designed because I know computers are designed. I know there are computer factories. I know I can Google instructions, buy materials, and make computers all day long. You know what about the design of the universe? Again, I'll wait... Lot of claims made ITT with 0 to back any of it up. If everything does have a maker, then the maker must have a maker. We don't get to argue that a computer has a computer-maker, and so too the computer-maker has a maker, but the computer-maker-maker has no maker. Either it's turtles all the way down, or there is no turtle my friend.

If you can show evidence not only allowing the possibility of an intelligent designer, is the evidence stronger than the evidence pointing to something else? If you can show the evidence for both, does the evidence point to the Christian God? What makes your evidence more convincing for him vs the 1000s of other Gods that have been worshiped by humans in history?

Are you about to become the most famous human in history by demonstrating the above? Are you gonna be the first, out of billions upon billions of people, that solved the great question? I'm rooting for you, but

Nope

You have nothing. But you won't ever admit that. All you have is "faith", aka synonym for lack of evidence. Good for you man, that's okay, I don't care what you believe. I hope it brings you comfort, sincerely. Just don't come on here acting like that is enough to bring to an argument as any sort proof or rationality.
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I hear you man. No malice here. The way I see it , though, the universe is way more complex than a computer. So, when I look at the cosmos around me, I’m truly amazed at complex synchronized nature of things. I just can’t make the gigantic leap of faith in the direction of naturalism. I’m a Christian. I believe in God. I believe the Bible. It’s just who I am. You have every right to your point of view. I respect that.
 
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Whenry said:
I hear you man. No malice here. The way I see it , though, the universe is way more complex than a computer. So, when I look at the cosmos around me, I’m truly amazed at complex synchronized nature of things. I just can’t make the gigantic leap of faith in the direction of naturalism. I’m a Christian. I believe in God. I believe the Bible. It’s just who I am. You have every right to your point of view. I respect that.
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Nothing personal. I'm sure you're a good dude. Wasn't trying to come off like a douche
 
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TKL67 said:
Interesting to me how many Christians who see God's handiwork in nature are also the ones whose votes go in direct opposition of protecting the Earth.
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The US does more than its share to protect the environment even though it makes up just 2% of the earth's surface. If anyone is killing the planet, it's other industrialized nations who have no environmental regulations and standards.
 
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1Clemzunfan said:
Being someone who strongly believes in science and who also does not believe that in any way it contradicts God's word or disproves the existence of God, here is my answer.

Someone referenced Roman's 1:20 appropriately. Here is what it says:

"For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."

In a nut shell, what this passage says to me is the evidence of intelligent creation is all around us. And the more we understand the beauty and complexity of the universe we live in and how it works, the more we should come to understand His power and His hand in its creation. The more we learn as human beings about what God has done, the less of an excuse we have to doubt Him. Unfortunately, some people think the more we come to understand about His creation, the smarter it makes us and the less we need God to explain it.

If you had never seen a TV before and you found yourself in a room with a TV on the table in front of you and it played something that was broadcast live from halfway around the world, you would no doubt be in awe and who knows what you may believe. Is it magic?

If you had a toolset in that room and you spent days and weeks and years taking the TV apart piece by piece and reverse engineered exactly how the technology worked and could explain how all of those pieces and parts work together, would you be any less impressed? You would probably be pretty proud of yourself and the fact that YOU had figured it out. Your ego would be pretty big. You have disproved that that TV works on magic and YOU know the secret of how it all comes together and works. But now that you know how it was created and that it isnt "magic", have you disproven that someone created it or have you actually proven that it was created by a highly intelligent being, someone far more intelligent than you? How silly does it seem to think that the inventor of the TV has now been wiped from existence because someone figured out how he created his TV and how it works and it is not magic after all?

Unfortunately, some people think that if you can show that something isn't magic, and that if you open something up and find that their is a logical, ingenious order to the pieces and parts, that it somehow disproves the existence of a creator as well. Too many people think that we only need God if we can't explain something on our own. God is only needed for magic and somehow not capable of intelligent and logical creation.

And furthermore, does the fact that the inventor of the TV is not in the room make it reasonable to assume that all of those pieces came together in such a perfect way on their own? Does the inventors absence and your new understanding of how that TV works disprove for you that a highly intelligent being was ever involved at all in bringing those pieces together to begin with? Is it reasonable to hypothesize that because we can not see the inventor of the TV or talk to him, that there was a big explosion in the room from "something we dont yet understand" and that set everything in perfect motion to create the parts and pieces and assemble them into something as incredible as that TV? An incredible stroke of luck.

For me, that analogy and those questions analogize where non-believers go wrong with science. Many non believers think that if someone can figure out how things came together in nature and how they work that they have somehow disproved the existence of God at all. If you can break something down and explain how it works, you have shown it isnt magic and therefore you don't need God anymore. For them God is magic or nothing.

Understanding how something works and how it came to be (which is what science does) does not disprove that there is an amazing, unimaginably intelligent guiding force behind all of the creations we behold on a daily basis. There is a big difference in reverse engineering something and engineering it from nothing with nothing. As smart as we think we are when we figure out some small piece of some small thing within the vast universe, all we are doing is reverse engineering the works of an enormously more intelligent and powerful creator. Just as the man who figured out how that TV works did not disprove the fact that a highly intelligent man somewhere invented it, our science does not disprove the existence of God. In both cases what they speak to is how necessary and how intelligent and purposeful the creator behind the TV, or our universe, are.

There are a lot of ignorant Christian's out there who do a lot to make non-believers think that you cant believe in science and believe in God. Some Christian's are scared or intimidated by the science community and believe that their advances in knowledge somehow disproves what the bible says, when what they should be doing is embracing it and using it to better understand what the bible and God is really telling us. The bible is not flawed, I just think man is flawed in his interpretation and translation sometimes. I choose to learn from science and grow in my understanding of how remarkable God is, instead of hide from it while remaining ignorant.

If you are a Christian, I encourage you to embrace science and what it teaches us about God. Be open to changing what you believed yesterday if you have a better understanding based on something you learned today.
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Man those are very profound and thought provoking words. I cant say I've ever really thought of my own personal belief in God in such a manner but it definitely makes perfect sense to me the way you explained it. Very well done sir and the best post I've ever read on this board.
 
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Howard's Jock said:
i always love it when humans damn another human to hell
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According to the bible, Trump and 90% of this board are not going to heaven. Definitely not me, cause I'm rich b*tch!

And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. Matthew 19:24
 
tigdad said:
Well...I'll make a stab at a response. We believe that the Earth is for man and not the other way around. We believe that the One who created it holds all things together....we actually believe that "all things are from him, through him and for him". We also believe that this earth is going to end one day no matter what we do but that earth will be recreated in a perfect condition and those that have been given life through faith in Christ will live there for eternity with him. So, we should take reasonably good care of this temporary home but the notion that we should limit humanity or suffer lack because we're afraid of destroying the planet is preposterous to Bible believers.
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Whenry said:
That’s a great question. God doesn’t want to send you to Hell ( 1Tim. 2:4; 2Pet. 3:9 ). He loves you. The earlier reference to Rom. 1:20 was simply that there is sufficient evidence in creation to indicate there is a creator. God desires a relationship with you. He wants you to go to Heaven when you die. He gave His Son to die as a substitutionary sacrifice for your sins ( mine too btw ).He’s given you a free will. If you will exercise your God given choice to put your trust in Jesus as your Lord and Savior, God will forgive you and the threat of Hell will be removed from your life forever. I made the choice to trust Christ 27 years ago. My only regret is ,I wish I had done it sooner.
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tigdad...You said, "those that have been given life through faith in Christ will live there for eternity with him". Who hasn't been made alive in Christ and where will they be living?

Whenry... I think it's wonderful that you made a decision to put your trust in Christ 27 years ago. Did you decide to trust Christ because of His goodness and unconditional Love or the fear of being tortured and tormented in a place called hell? Also, are you married? If you are...did your wife marry you because of Love or fear that you would throw her in a pit or dungeon and torture and torment her forever?
 
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BigTimeTiger said:
Watch a Case for Christ for a good introduction and then do your own similar research. It will mean more to you that way.
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I've done a decent amount of research on this, and I have read the book, though not the movie. I assume it is largely the same? You are not the first to recommend this so there must be something to it....

What do you find is the most convincing piece in there?
 
1Clemzunfan said:
Being someone who strongly believes in science and who also does not believe that in any way it contradicts God's word or disproves the existence of God, here is my answer.

Someone referenced Roman's 1:20 appropriately. Here is what it says:

"For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."

In a nut shell, what this passage says to me is the evidence of intelligent creation is all around us. And the more we understand the beauty and complexity of the universe we live in and how it works, the more we should come to understand His power and His hand in its creation. The more we learn as human beings about what God has done, the less of an excuse we have to doubt Him. Unfortunately, some people think the more we come to understand about His creation, the smarter it makes us and the less we need God to explain it.

If you had never seen a TV before and you found yourself in a room with a TV on the table in front of you and it played something that was broadcast live from halfway around the world, you would no doubt be in awe and who knows what you may believe. Is it magic?

If you had a toolset in that room and you spent days and weeks and years taking the TV apart piece by piece and reverse engineered exactly how the technology worked and could explain how all of those pieces and parts work together, would you be any less impressed? You would probably be pretty proud of yourself and the fact that YOU had figured it out. Your ego would be pretty big. You have disproved that that TV works on magic and YOU know the secret of how it all comes together and works. But now that you know how it was created and that it isnt "magic", have you disproven that someone created it or have you actually proven that it was created by a highly intelligent being, someone far more intelligent than you? How silly does it seem to think that the inventor of the TV has now been wiped from existence because someone figured out how he created his TV and how it works and it is not magic after all?

Unfortunately, some people think that if you can show that something isn't magic, and that if you open something up and find that their is a logical, ingenious order to the pieces and parts, that it somehow disproves the existence of a creator as well. Too many people think that we only need God if we can't explain something on our own. God is only needed for magic and somehow not capable of intelligent and logical creation.

And furthermore, does the fact that the inventor of the TV is not in the room make it reasonable to assume that all of those pieces came together in such a perfect way on their own? Does the inventors absence and your new understanding of how that TV works disprove for you that a highly intelligent being was ever involved at all in bringing those pieces together to begin with? Is it reasonable to hypothesize that because we can not see the inventor of the TV or talk to him, that there was a big explosion in the room from "something we dont yet understand" and that set everything in perfect motion to create the parts and pieces and assemble them into something as incredible as that TV? An incredible stroke of luck.

For me, that analogy and those questions analogize where non-believers go wrong with science. Many non believers think that if someone can figure out how things came together in nature and how they work that they have somehow disproved the existence of God at all. If you can break something down and explain how it works, you have shown it isnt magic and therefore you don't need God anymore. For them God is magic or nothing.

Understanding how something works and how it came to be (which is what science does) does not disprove that there is an amazing, unimaginably intelligent guiding force behind all of the creations we behold on a daily basis. There is a big difference in reverse engineering something and engineering it from nothing with nothing. As smart as we think we are when we figure out some small piece of some small thing within the vast universe, all we are doing is reverse engineering the works of an enormously more intelligent and powerful creator. Just as the man who figured out how that TV works did not disprove the fact that a highly intelligent man somewhere invented it, our science does not disprove the existence of God. In both cases what they speak to is how necessary and how intelligent and purposeful the creator behind the TV, or our universe, are.

There are a lot of ignorant Christian's out there who do a lot to make non-believers think that you cant believe in science and believe in God. Some Christian's are scared or intimidated by the science community and believe that their advances in knowledge somehow disproves what the bible says, when what they should be doing is embracing it and using it to better understand what the bible and God is really telling us. The bible is not flawed, I just think man is flawed in his interpretation and translation sometimes. I choose to learn from science and grow in my understanding of how remarkable God is, instead of hide from it while remaining ignorant.

If you are a Christian, I encourage you to embrace science and what it teaches us about God. Be open to changing what you believed yesterday if you have a better understanding based on something you learned today.
Click to expand...
I agree 100%. The Bible says God created light in an instant. Science says it originated from a Big Bang! The Big Bang was discovered by a Catholic Priest and at the time it was denounced by scientists as him trying to prove Gods existence. The Bible says we were created by God from the mud of the earth. Science says we evolved from the mud of the earth.
 
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1Clemzunfan said:
Being someone who strongly believes in science and who also does not believe that in any way it contradicts God's word or disproves the existence of God, here is my answer.

Someone referenced Roman's 1:20 appropriately. Here is what it says:

"For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."

In a nut shell, what this passage says to me is the evidence of intelligent creation is all around us. And the more we understand the beauty and complexity of the universe we live in and how it works, the more we should come to understand His power and His hand in its creation. The more we learn as human beings about what God has done, the less of an excuse we have to doubt Him. Unfortunately, some people think the more we come to understand about His creation, the smarter it makes us and the less we need God to explain it.

If you had never seen a TV before and you found yourself in a room with a TV on the table in front of you and it played something that was broadcast live from halfway around the world, you would no doubt be in awe and who knows what you may believe. Is it magic?

If you had a toolset in that room and you spent days and weeks and years taking the TV apart piece by piece and reverse engineered exactly how the technology worked and could explain how all of those pieces and parts work together, would you be any less impressed? You would probably be pretty proud of yourself and the fact that YOU had figured it out. Your ego would be pretty big. You have disproved that that TV works on magic and YOU know the secret of how it all comes together and works. But now that you know how it was created and that it isnt "magic", have you disproven that someone created it or have you actually proven that it was created by a highly intelligent being, someone far more intelligent than you? How silly does it seem to think that the inventor of the TV has now been wiped from existence because someone figured out how he created his TV and how it works and it is not magic after all?

Unfortunately, some people think that if you can show that something isn't magic, and that if you open something up and find that their is a logical, ingenious order to the pieces and parts, that it somehow disproves the existence of a creator as well. Too many people think that we only need God if we can't explain something on our own. God is only needed for magic and somehow not capable of intelligent and logical creation.

And furthermore, does the fact that the inventor of the TV is not in the room make it reasonable to assume that all of those pieces came together in such a perfect way on their own? Does the inventors absence and your new understanding of how that TV works disprove for you that a highly intelligent being was ever involved at all in bringing those pieces together to begin with? Is it reasonable to hypothesize that because we can not see the inventor of the TV or talk to him, that there was a big explosion in the room from "something we dont yet understand" and that set everything in perfect motion to create the parts and pieces and assemble them into something as incredible as that TV? An incredible stroke of luck.

For me, that analogy and those questions analogize where non-believers go wrong with science. Many non believers think that if someone can figure out how things came together in nature and how they work that they have somehow disproved the existence of God at all. If you can break something down and explain how it works, you have shown it isnt magic and therefore you don't need God anymore. For them God is magic or nothing.

Understanding how something works and how it came to be (which is what science does) does not disprove that there is an amazing, unimaginably intelligent guiding force behind all of the creations we behold on a daily basis. There is a big difference in reverse engineering something and engineering it from nothing with nothing. As smart as we think we are when we figure out some small piece of some small thing within the vast universe, all we are doing is reverse engineering the works of an enormously more intelligent and powerful creator. Just as the man who figured out how that TV works did not disprove the fact that a highly intelligent man somewhere invented it, our science does not disprove the existence of God. In both cases what they speak to is how necessary and how intelligent and purposeful the creator behind the TV, or our universe, are.

There are a lot of ignorant Christian's out there who do a lot to make non-believers think that you cant believe in science and believe in God. Some Christian's are scared or intimidated by the science community and believe that their advances in knowledge somehow disproves what the bible says, when what they should be doing is embracing it and using it to better understand what the bible and God is really telling us. The bible is not flawed, I just think man is flawed in his interpretation and translation sometimes. I choose to learn from science and grow in my understanding of how remarkable God is, instead of hide from it while remaining ignorant.

If you are a Christian, I encourage you to embrace science and what it teaches us about God. Be open to changing what you believed yesterday if you have a better understanding based on something you learned today.
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Thank you for articulating so many of my thoughts.

N---
 
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TKL67 said:
Interesting to me how many Christians who see God's handiwork in nature are also the ones whose votes go in direct opposition of protecting the Earth.
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Equally amazing is how hypocritical the actions of those claiming to protect the earth are.

N---
 
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Charybdis said:
That isn't what the nearly unanimous opinion of the scientific community is.
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Utter horseshit, there is no nearly unanimous opinion of the scientific community. Do some research, this false narrative has been pushed far too long. The scientific community is split about 60/40 on whether or not human actions have any significant impact on climate changes.

N---
 
alex24 said:
The Bible is a very convenient book. It's literal when it suits someone's argument, and its figurative/metaphorical when it's convenient for an argument
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The bible, the Koran, the Torah, ancient templates are all born of men in the attempt to interpret God. IMHO it is ok to question much of what's in them as they are not direct contact with the creator.

N---
 
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rcmc2017 said:
tigdad...You said, "those that have been given life through faith in Christ will live there for eternity with him". Who hasn't been made alive in Christ and where will they be living?

Whenry... I think it's wonderful that you made a decision to put your trust in Christ 27 years ago. Did you decide to trust Christ because of His goodness and unconditional Love or the fear of being tortured and tormented in a place called hell? Also, are you married? If you are...did your wife marry you because of Love or fear that you would throw her in a pit or dungeon and torture and torment her forever?
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So...
You are tormented, huh?
 
tigerworx said:
So...
You are tormented, huh?
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LOL...NO...are you?
Love never fails...Therefore God will never fail to rescue and restore all of His lost sheep before or after this death of the body...or, in this age or the ages to come.
You quoted earlier the...every knee will bow verse. I agree. I encourage you to study that verse in the original Greek and hebrew...you'll be happy you did.
 
rcmc2017 said:
LOL...NO...are you?
Love never fails...Therefore God will never fail to rescue and restore all of His lost sheep before or after this death of the body...or, in this age or the ages to come.
You quoted earlier the...every knee will bow verse. I agree. I encourage you to study that verse in the original Greek and hebrew...you'll be happy you did.
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Thought the post I replied to a little odd.
Sorry.
I like this one.

My Reformation Theology caused me to question your questions of why "they" chose to prevent the "fire" etc.

Note
These forums are terrible at discussing any thing relating to God effectively.
 
nealchick said:
Utter horseshit, there is no nearly unanimous opinion of the scientific community. Do some research, this false narrative has been pushed far too long. The scientific community is split about 60/40 on whether or not human actions have any significant impact on climate changes.

N---
Click to expand...
From the below entry

"Several studies of the consensus have been undertaken.[1] Among the most cited is a 2013 study of nearly 12,000 abstracts of peer-reviewed papers on climate science published since 1990, of which just over 4,000 papers expressed an opinion on the cause of recent global warming. Of these, 97% agree, explicitly or implicitly, that global warming is happening and is human-caused.[2][3] It is "extremely likely"[4] that this warming arises from "human activities, especially emissions of greenhouse gases"[4] in the atmosphere.[5] Natural change alone would have had a slight cooling effect rather than a warming effect.[6][7][8][9]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_consensus_on_climate_change
 
rcmc2017 said:
tigdad...You said, "those that have been given life through faith in Christ will live there for eternity with him". Who hasn't been made alive in Christ and where will they be living?

Whenry... I think it's wonderful that you made a decision to put your trust in Christ 27 years ago. Did you decide to trust Christ because of His goodness and unconditional Love or the fear of being tortured and tormented in a place called hell? Also, are you married? If you are...did your wife marry you because of Love or fear that you would throw her in a pit or dungeon and torture and torment her forever? The day I trusted Christ
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rcmc2017 said:
tigdad...You said, "those that have been given life through faith in Christ will live there for eternity with him". Who hasn't been made alive in Christ and where will they be living?

Whenry... I think it's wonderful that you made a decision to put your trust in Christ 27 years ago. Did you decide to trust Christ because of His goodness and unconditional Love or the fear of being tortured and tormented in a place called hell? Also, are you married? If you are...did your wife marry you because of Love or fear that you would throw her in a pit or dungeon and torture and torment her forever?
Click to expand...
The day I trusted Christ I was suddenly overwhelmed by a deep awareness that I needed a true relationship with God. It’s not easy to explain, but it’s true. I began to cry out that I needed God. Then I became genuinely sorrowful for my sins. I wasn’t afraid. I was sorry. I began to confess and repent of every sin that came to my mind. It would have been impossible for me recall them all. Then I began to submit control of my life to Him. I had no idea what that might involve moving forward, but I knew in that moment God would help me. That’s been 27 years ago. I’ve got a long ways to go. Sometimes I wonder how God could love someone like me. I can’t produce the kind of proof skeptics would like to see. I wish I could. But I believe in God with all my heart. I love Him. Yes, I am married (38 years). Why did my wife marry me ? God only knows. Lol. I get your point, though. And I agree that we Christians would be much more effective if we loved people more. Do I believe in a literal Hell? Yes. I don’t want anyone to go there. Sometimes I go about sharing my faith the wrong way. But, at the end of the day, I’m a work in progress. As far as I’m concerned, I’m gonna stick with Jesus.
 
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Steven15 said:
What evidence do you have Christ, as depicted in the Bible, existed?

Sincerely asking. I'm willing to be swayed. I want to be swayed
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Take a look at the book Cold-Case Christianity by J Warner Wallace. He is a former homicide detective and atheist who decided to use forensic techniques to try to find proof that the origins of Christianity are true and ends up doing just that. I found it an excellent read and think would be a good start.
 
When it comes to a worldview, there are 4 main questions/topics that need to be addressed:

1) Origin
2) Meaning
3) Morality
4) Destiny

When it comes to the above, the particular worldview must be able to address these with coherence and correspondence of truth. The only worldview that can do so is the Judeo-Christian worldview.

This is paraphrasing Ravi Zacharias, a Christian apologist who has been extremely influential in my life. Check out his podcast, RZIM Just Thinking for answers to some of the more difficult answers in Christianity (evil, suffering, proof of existence of God, etc). They are short (15min) Q&A sessions (one was at Clemson), and just might change your life.
 
Whenry said:
The day I trusted Christ I was suddenly overwhelmed by a deep awareness that I needed a true relationship with God. It’s not easy to explain, but it’s true. I began to cry out that I needed God. Then I became genuinely sorrowful for my sins. I wasn’t afraid. I was sorry. I began to confess and repent of every sin that came to my mind. It would have been impossible for me recall them all. Then I began to submit control of my life to Him. I had no idea what that might involve moving forward, but I knew in that moment God would help me. That’s been 27 years ago. I’ve got a long ways to go. Sometimes I wonder how God could love someone like me. I can’t produce the kind of proof skeptics would like to see. I wish I could. But I believe in God with all my heart. I love Him. Yes, I am married (38 years). Why did my wife marry me ? God only knows. Lol. I get your point, though. And I agree that we Christians would be much more effective if we loved people more. Do I believe in a literal Hell? Yes. I don’t want anyone to go there. Sometimes I go about sharing my faith the wrong way. But, at the end of the day, I’m a work in progress. As far as I’m concerned, I’m gonna stick with Jesus.
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if you were born as a native american before the europeans settled in the americas...what God would you have worshiped?
 
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tiger_echoes said:
if you were born as a native american before the europeans settled in the americas...what God would you have worshiped?
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I’d be the oldest poster on TI...that’s for sure. I don’t know what my life would’ve been like in another time. God knows. But , I suppose He would have just come to me the same way ,regardless of time. He’s been saving people for a long time. I’m just glad He’s my God.
 
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Whenry said:
I’d be the oldest poster on TI...that’s for sure. I don’t know what my life would’ve been like in another time. God knows. But , I suppose He would have just come to me the same way ,regardless of time. He’s been saving people for a long time. I’m just glad He’s my God.
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well the europeans brought Christianity to the americas...the natives had their own religions...they had never heard the story of Jesus or any other of the world religions for that matter...i have a problem with that because the natives of this country is just one example of people never hearing the gospels...i dont see much "free will" in that
 
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tiger_echoes said:
well the europeans brought Christianity to the americas...the natives had their own religions...they had never heard the story of Jesus or any other of the world religions for that matter...i have a problem with that because the natives of this country is just one example of people never hearing the gospels...i dont see much "free will" in that
Click to expand...

You're correct...there is no free will in that. I'll take it a step further for you. According to most Bible scholars and Historian scholars...roughly 85-87 % of all people born post Ressurection Jesus Christ never heard the Good News of Jesus Christ before they died. And, imo...I think at least half of the 12-15 % that heard the Good News, heard a very distorted version of it...like most of us who grew up in a western-based protestant denomination. Most of us were taught (or brainwashed) that Salvation or getting Saved was about getting to go to Heaven to avoid going to hell...and in hell people are forever separated from God and will suffer eternal conscious torment...this doctrine or exclusionary paradigm is a fear base doctrine used to control people with fear. Sadly, it makes God (who is Love) out to be a narcissistic monster who would be akin or worse than hitler. God is Love. His Love for you and all people is deeper than anyone can imagine. He Loves you just the way you are...not as you think you should be because none of us will be exactly how we should be. I preach about a God of Love for all people...if you or anyone else would like to hear more just send me a message...I'll share with you my FB, youtube channel or where you can come to hear in person.
 
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615mike said:
From the below entry

"Several studies of the consensus have been undertaken.[1] Among the most cited is a 2013 study of nearly 12,000 abstracts of peer-reviewed papers on climate science published since 1990, of which just over 4,000 papers expressed an opinion on the cause of recent global warming. Of these, 97% agree, explicitly or implicitly, that global warming is happening and is human-caused.[2][3] It is "extremely likely"[4] that this warming arises from "human activities, especially emissions of greenhouse gases"[4] in the atmosphere.[5] Natural change alone would have had a slight cooling effect rather than a warming effect.[6][7][8][9]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_consensus_on_climate_change
Click to expand...

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/06...-97-climate-consensus-crumbles-in-new-survey/
 
Try some of the links at the bottom here that further show the flawed consensus idea.

One tremendous issue I have is that science is not settled by it's nature. There is only theory and so many are aligning with a theory that works but is unproven and ignoring so many other factors. Additionally the falsification of data so prevalent with many in the field promotes doubt.




615mike said:
This survey's respondents were 84% professional engineers or engineers-in-training.

I'm not asserting one position or the other here (regarding climate change), but I am interested in climatologists view of our weather patterns.
Click to expand...

Geoscientists.
615mike said:
This survey's respondents were 84% professional engineers or engineers-in-training.

I'm not asserting one position or the other here (regarding climate change), but I am interested in climatologists view of our weather patterns.
Click to expand...

Richard Greene

June 3, 2018 at 1:44 pm


I have had previously posted (this year)
simple summaries of five
“climate consensus studies”
at my climate blog:
.
Here’s one simple summary of asemi-honest survey
including IPCC writers and editors,
where under 43% agreed with IPCC conclusions:
.
http://elonionbloggle.blogspot.com/2018/06/proof-there-is-no-97-consensus-with.html
.
.
.
Here are four simple summaries of the “bad” studies:
http://elonionbloggle.blogspot.com/2018/02/the-97-consensus-myth-one-fake-survey.html
.
https://elonionbloggle.blogspot.com/2018/02/fake-consensus-survey-a.html
.
https://elonionbloggle.blogspot.com/2018/02/fake-consensus-survey-b.html
.
https://elonionbloggle.blogspot.com/2018/02/fake-consensus-survey-c.html
.
https://elonionbloggle.blogspot.com/2018/02/fake-consensus-survey-d.html
 
nealchick said:
Try some of the links at the bottom here that further show the flawed consensus idea.

One tremendous issue I have is that science is not settled by it's nature. There is only theory and so many are aligning with a theory that works but is unproven and ignoring so many other factors. Additionally the falsification of data so prevalent with many in the field promotes doubt.






Geoscientists.


Richard Greene

June 3, 2018 at 1:44 pm


I have had previously posted (this year)
simple summaries of five
“climate consensus studies”
at my climate blog:
.
Here’s one simple summary of asemi-honest survey
including IPCC writers and editors,
where under 43% agreed with IPCC conclusions:
.
http://elonionbloggle.blogspot.com/2018/06/proof-there-is-no-97-consensus-with.html
.
.
Click to expand...
That is the worlds dumbest chart. The Y axis range makes no sense. It's like it's designed to be unhelpful.

Edit: Holy crap the more I look at that site, it's like it's entirely designed by someone that hates math (And HTML formatting).

"64% of the authors
in this survey
agreed with the IPCC
on the "over 50%"
impact of human emissions
on the climate,
and 65% of those who agreed
were as confident as the IPCC
was in that finding.
65% of the 64% is 41.6%.
That means only 41.6%
of the survey’s respondents
agree with IPCC claims. "

Which is absolutely not what it means, even if we were to believe the source of the numbers. How does this author manage to contradict himself in the same paragraph! Man, that site is practically a parody.

Also, Neil you don't seem to understand what the word Theory means
 
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