ADVERTISEMENT

***In Game Thread: Trump/Biden Debate #2***

I thought both held their own and I agree with another poster that I doubt it makes any material difference at this point. I'd say most of the US has already made up their minds at this stage. I wonder if it would make more sense to debate earlier in the campaign process?

Don't underestimate the influence of oil money, oil revenue, oil liquidity, etc etc. Still very prevalent in the US and across the world. The takeaway will be how the comment on oil was perceived and how well the right side of media can turn into a negative agenda, whether the comments are taken out of context or not.

I do think Trump should have to account for a Health Care plan but I also think Biden needs to articulate how he'll reform Obama Care. Upping my taxes to cover the gap isn't the answer. I admire the idea of Obama Care, but I challenge the execution/delivery of Obama Care. Simply put, it could be better.

Lastly, not specific to the debate but I still want to see the outcome of the laptop/emails/whistleblowers etc. As mentioned on here a few times, I ran a global P&L with local entities throughout Asia and Russia.......both are really challenging to operate in without the backing of very large organizations or billion dollar balance sheets and the ability to navigate the lengthy list of regulatory challenges, compliance hurdles....etc is a sustainable cost and legal hurdle. I don't want to suggest certainty here but I still feel there is some form of corruption associated. It may be that voters don't care enough to worry about it but there are red flags for me.

What more do you need to know about the laptop / emails? Nothing in any of these emails that have been released directly implicates Joe Biden of wrong doing. Biden has released all of his returns.

Was Hunter Biden trying to toss his dad's name around to make money from foreign governments? Sure. But that is no different than what the Trump kids are doing right now.

The timing of this is what makes it so suspect. Rudy bragged about having this dirt at the beginning of the year. Our intelligence agencies warned Trump that Rudy was being fed misinformation from Russia last year. A republican senate committee led by trump sycophants investigated and could not find any wrongdoing by Biden.

They have had this stuff for a while. They chose to dump it now to inflict maximum damage as a sideshow. If they really believed it, they would have dumped it earlier knowing it would end Biden's campaign.
 
people dont care about debates, they are partisan dog and pony shoes. there arent undecided voters left out there, and anyone who says they dont have enough information to make a decision at this point and still needs to watch a debate to decide is either stupid, or looking for attention.

this election is already decided, one way or the other.

Yeah no shit? Kinda like what we were saying after the first debate, when the left was celebrating like it was NYE and claiming the tide had turned?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cocks are Number 1
And a follow ... why wouldn't you want to use a reporter who has worked in China to source a story about China? Is Rudy Guiliani a better source?

i trust rudy guliani more than a kid from harvard or a dude from china that ive never heard of.

ive spent hours with rudy

he is america's mayor

he took down the mob in nyc

he cleaned up crime in nyc and made it a nice city again

what do you like that andrew did in his life?

and

what did james do in his life that makes you trust him?

any specific examples with those 2?
 
You assume when watching these debates that everyone else watching has a modicum of intelligence and can dissect what each candidate is saying and make informed decisions based off of that. And then you see shit like this and your jaw literally hits the floor and you worry about the future of our country....

This floored me as well. Unbelievable. Absolutely unbelievable.
 
You assume when watching these debates that everyone else watching has a modicum of intelligence and can dissect what each candidate is saying and make informed decisions based off of that. And then you see shit like this and your jaw literally hits the floor and you worry about the future of our country....

either reform education or raise the voting age :p
 
Nothing in any of these emails that have been released directly implicates Joe Biden of wrong doing

oohhhh

you havent read the emails yet.

check them out

they are fascinating

they show how elitist set up shell corps

get money dumped in

then pull money out

bankrupt corporation

start new business

repeat process

its a money distribution network

just read the emails

its not just the biden family

go read the raw emails

make your own opinion
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cocks are Number 1
What more do you need to know about the laptop / emails? Nothing in any of these emails that have been released directly implicates Joe Biden of wrong doing. Biden has released all of his returns.
SmallSlightIceblueredtopzebra-size_restricted.gif
 
healthcare is by far the #1 issue on voter's minds, both in the context of COVID, and then more generally. And republicans can say nothing other than "better, cheaper, pre-existing conditions" over and over again. Why dont they have a real plan?

everyone trusted obamacare for the most part and their monthly premiums doubled and coverage was reduced.

thats kinda scary.

then the mandate.

i dont know anyone whose rates were reduced once obamacare came online.

healthcare cost need to be reduced.

how do you reduce the cost of an office visit

an mri

blood work

why is it all still expensive

the technology has been around and should be cheap

liability and regulations are the 2 most likely candidates to look at to reduce cost
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cocks are Number 1
Hey, App: if you need medical care would you rather have a Harvard Medical School grad or Univ of Arkansas? I have never understood why people look down on folks who have attended an outstanding university. Jealously, I imagine, for many. Who would prefer to say, "I want to go to a mediocre university, not an Ivy League one"?

i would go with the guy from arkansas if the harvard grad had majored in literature
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cocks are Number 1
That wasn't objective response.........


What fields are you looking at? Economic issues writ large are only 9% of people's most important issue. Healthcare+Covid is 28% in September.
 
but we are all like that

even the independents

the gig is up

its over

witnesses

cell phones

emails

what more do you need

and i mean what more do you need to

just even

QUESTION it

that MAYBE i should be intelligent enough to take a peek at those emails or listen to hunters 2 partners

right

we are your friends

we are not lying to you

maybe the people living in DC and NY have been brainwashed by chinese take out businesses

the CCP put some mind control in the noodles
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cocks are Number 1
What more do you need to know about the laptop / emails? Nothing in any of these emails that have been released directly implicates Joe Biden of wrong doing. Biden has released all of his returns.

Was Hunter Biden trying to toss his dad's name around to make money from foreign governments? Sure. But that is no different than what the Trump kids are doing right now.

The timing of this is what makes it so suspect. Rudy bragged about having this dirt at the beginning of the year. Our intelligence agencies warned Trump that Rudy was being fed misinformation from Russia last year. A republican senate committee led by trump sycophants investigated and could not find any wrongdoing by Biden.

They have had this stuff for a while. They chose to dump it now to inflict maximum damage as a sideshow. If they really believed it, they would have dumped it earlier knowing it would end Biden's campaign.

And the Bob Woodward private convos that were sat on for months and released at the start of the campaign trail weren't well timed? Something so critical that put all Americans in danger wasn't important enough to share immediately? You can't have it both ways, you can't swing a stick and then voice discourse when the right swings it back the other way.

Sure, the timing makes it interesting but it doesn't necessarily ruin the credibility of the allegations. There isn't an ounce of you that questions if this was corruption or not? There is evidence the money traveled from the Ukraine to Latvia to Cyprus before landing in his account.....if he wasn't doing anything wrong, why wash the money through 3 countries?

Also, a letter from Latvia to the Ukraine authorities questioning the transactions a month before the investigator was fired by Biden (which he admits), seems timely to me.

LIke I said, it may not influence the election but it doesn't make Biden any less of a sh*t bag.
 
What more do you need to know about the laptop / emails? Nothing in any of these emails that have been released directly implicates Joe Biden of wrong doing. Biden has released all of his returns.

Was Hunter Biden trying to toss his dad's name around to make money from foreign governments? Sure. But that is no different than what the Trump kids are doing right now.

The timing of this is what makes it so suspect. Rudy bragged about having this dirt at the beginning of the year. Our intelligence agencies warned Trump that Rudy was being fed misinformation from Russia last year. A republican senate committee led by trump sycophants investigated and could not find any wrongdoing by Biden.

They have had this stuff for a while. They chose to dump it now to inflict maximum damage as a sideshow. If they really believed it, they would have dumped it earlier knowing it would end Biden's campaign.

Haha. Old Joe did himself in last night..

Tick, tock....
 
And the Bob Woodward private convos that were sat on for months and released at the start of the campaign trail weren't well timed? Something so critical that put all Americans in danger wasn't important enough to share immediately? You can't have it both ways, you can't swing a stick and then voice discourse when the right swings it back the other way.

Sure, the timing makes it interesting but it doesn't necessarily ruin the credibility of the allegations. There isn't an ounce of you that questions if this was corruption or not? There is evidence the money traveled from the Ukraine to Latvia to Cyprus before landing in his account.....if he wasn't doing anything wrong, why wash the money through 3 countries?

Also, a letter from Latvia to the Ukraine authorities questioning the transactions a month before the investigator was fired by Biden (which he admits), seems timely to me.

LIke I said, it may not influence the election but it doesn't make Biden any less of a sh*t bag.

Bob Woodward is not a government official.
 
thoughtful question

when joe biden landed in china

why did he let hunter take front and center?

was that just to brag about his kid like any father would

or was that showing someone that the check will be good?
 
What fields are you looking at? Economic issues writ large are only 9% of people's most important issue. Healthcare+Covid is 28% in September.

You lumped Health Care with Covid though, Health care was lower than the economy. That said, we were both wrong. 3% vs 5% in September.
 
Why does it matter? It was timed to ruin his credibility right as the election trail kicked off.

I just don't concern myself with the actions of private citizens. The behavior of the President and his representatives should be held to a higher standard.

That being said, I don't care that they held on to the data to try and make it as damaging as possible. I care about the fact that the entire story is bogus and full of deliberate misunderstandings.
 
Sorry @kgwillison

I trust this guy

his resume is light years better than andy or james over at the ol journal


RUDOLPH GIULIANI
Born: May 28, 1944, Brooklyn, New York
Nickname: Rudy

rudy-giuliani-NotableName.jpg


In 1989, when Rudolph Giuliani stepped down after six years as U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York, he was perhaps the most famous law enforcement official in the United States. He left a legacy of successful prosecutions of leaders of New York’s “Commission” of organized crime families, the Mafia’s international heroin and cocaine ring in the “Pizza Connection” case, as well as high-profile political corruption and Wall Street criminal cases.

As mayor of New York for eight years, Giuliani made sweeping changes to law enforcement policies that reduced crime in the city by more than 50 percent and calmly shepherded the city and nation through the catastrophic 9/11 terrorist attacks that destroyed the World Trade Center.

Giuliani was born in Brooklyn to parents who were the children of Italian immigrants. He grew up with a father who reviled ethnic Italians who tarnished their community by turning to organized crime. His father noticed that there were no federal judges of Italian extraction in New York in the mid-1960s and encouraged his son to enter law enforcement. The younger Giuliani graduated from Manhattan College and later, right out of New York University’s law school in 1970, landed a job as an assistant U.S. attorney in the city’s Southern District. By age 30, he was the office’s third-highest-ranking prosecutor.

One of the federal cases Giuliani prosecuted in the 1970s came after he and his colleagues convinced New York Police detective Robert Leuci to work undercover within the force to report back about police corruption. Leuci’s story was told by Robert Daley in the nonfiction book Prince of the City that later became an acclaimed 2001 movie by the same name. Fifty-two New York cops were indicted on corruption-related allegations based on the evidence. Giuliani also won a conviction against Brooklyn area U.S. Congressman Bertram Podell, a Democrat who served several months in federal prison for accepting a $41,000 bribe.

Giuliani’s star rose. A recommendation from a federal judge he clerked for in law school got him in as assistant to President Gerald Ford’s Attorney General Harold Tyler in 1975. After Ford lost the presidential election to Jimmy Carter, a Democrat, in 1976, Tyler took Giuliani in as a partner in a corporate firm in Manhattan. Giuliani stayed there until 1981 after GOP presidential candidate Ronald Reagan defeated Carter. Giuliani changed his party affiliation from Democrat to Republican and through contacts was appointed associate attorney general, the third-highest spot in the Justice Department, under William French Smith. Giuliani’s next big step was becoming U.S. attorney for the Southern District two years later in June 1983.

Giuliani announced that his top priority as U.S. attorney was to defeat organized crime in New York, where the chiefs of the so-called “Five Families” lived and operated. He read Mob boss Joseph Bonanno’s 1983 memoir A Man of Honor, in which Bonanno described meetings with bosses of the other four families — Colombo, Gambino, Genovese and Lucchese — a national ruling body referred to as “the Commission.” The Commission, going back to 1931, met secretly to settle differences, consider new members, approve murders and dole out money earned through racketeering. Giuliani received permission from Washington to pursue a case against the Commission. By 1984, 350 FBI agents and 100 New York Police detectives were investigating the Mob. At the time, an estimated 1,000 “made” men and 5,000 Mob associates lived in New York, New Jersey, Connecticut and elsewhere.

Giuliani’s probe included the placement of court-allowed recording devices in 1984 in places such as the Palma Boys Social Club in New York, where Anthony “Fat Tony” Salerno held court, Paul Castellano’s home on Staten Island, an automobile used by a Colombo family member and a Jaguar car used by Lucchese family associate Sal Avellino to chauffeur various mobsters. From hundreds of hours of recorded conversations, investigators heard the gangsters talk about the Commission, narcotics sales and the contract murder of Bonanno figure Carmine Galante in 1979.

Giuliani decided to prosecute the leaders of the families and their upper-level cohorts together under the federal Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, or RICO, for allegedly conspiring to commit felonies including contract murders, loan sharking, extortion, labor racketeering and drug trafficking. It was the first time RICO, passed by Congress in 1970, was employed to prosecute a major federal case.

He argued the case before a federal grand jury and in February 1985 obtained indictments against a laundry list of New York’s Mob leaders and their lieutenants: Bonanno family boss Phil Rastelli and capo Anthony Indelicato; Colombo boss Carmine Persico and member Ralph Scopo; Gambino boss Paul Castellano; Genovese boss Anthony Salerno and member Gennaro Langella; Lucchese boss Anthony Corallo, underboss Salvatore Santoro and consigliere Christopher Furnari. Soon afterward, Castellano was shot and killed outside a restaurant in Manhattan and Rastelli was tried in a separate RICO case.

Giuliani assigned federal prosecutor Michael Chertoff to take the Commission case to trial. The government called 207 witnesses. Giuliani arranged for his star witnesses, Cleveland Mob underboss Angelo Lonardo, to testify, then the highest-ranking mobster to agree to serve as a witness. The case brought to light the Concrete Club, a scheme where Castellano and other mobsters demanded and received kickbacks on the cost of cement for building projects in New York in exchange for peace from Mob-controlled labor unions. In November 1986, the mobster defendants – including family leaders Salerno, Persico and Corallo – were convicted in the 21-count indictment and made to serve sentences of 40 to 100 years in prison, a crippling blow to the decades-old New York Mafia.

Giuliani also won racketeering indictments in 1986, during the Commission trial, in a separate case against Salerno and mobsters Vincent Cafaro, John Tronolone and Milton Rockman. The grand jury alleged that Genovese boss Salerno and the others conspired to engineer the selection of Jackie Presser for president of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters in 1983 to control him and obtain union loans and jobs. Lonardo testified in the case, saying that he and Rockman met with Mob leaders in Chicago and with Salerno in New York to gather support for putting Presser in as head of the Teamsters. He also stated that the Mafia had controlled induction of the previous Teamsters president, Roy Williams.

This time, the jury acquitted Salerno and the others of rigging Teamster elections for Presser and Williams. Meanwhile, in May 1988, Giuliani’s office got guilty verdicts on Salerno, Genovese family member Matthew Ianniello and two others in a RICO case alleging extortion, union fraud and rigging bids for $30 million in cement work at the Jacob K. Javits Convention Center in New York.

The following month, Giuliani filed suit in New York to force the Teamsters to hold free elections and institute other reforms to eliminate organized crime influence in its locals. “The government’s complaint alleges that organized crime has deprived union members of their rights through a pattern of racketeering that includes 20 murders, a number of shootings, bombings, beatings, a campaign of fear, extortion and theft,” Giuliani stated.

In October 1988, a federal judge sentenced Salerno, who was already serving a 100-year sentence in the 1986 Commission case, to an additional 70 years for his conviction in the Javits center bid-rigging.

Another major Mafia case that came to Giuliani’s office was the famous “Pizza Connection” caper, in which the former chief of the Sicilian Mafia, Gaetano Badalamenti, and Bonanno crime family member Salvatore Catalano were charged as leaders of a $1.6 billion international heroin and cocaine smuggling and sales operation using pizza restaurants in New York as fronts since 1979. The 18 defendants were convicted in 1987. “It is a tremendous victory in the effort to crush the Mafia,” Giuliani stated in the Washington Post. “Five years ago nobody would have thought it possible to convict the head of the Sicilian Mafia and the head of a major part of an American Mafia family. The impact on the Mafia of these cases has been devastating. If this continues, there’s not going to be a Mafia.”

Before leaving office in January 1989, Giuliani also successfully prosecuted cases of alleged illegal insider trading on Wall Street and corruption in New York political circles. In 1987, Ivan Boesky, a Wall Street arbitrager who amassed $200 million investing in companies about to be taken over or bought out, was convicted of conspiring to file false documents, served two years in prison and was fined $100 million. In 1988, Giuliani then focused on a Boesky associate, Michael Milken, known as the “king” of selling unsecured “junk” bonds to raise funds for businesses. Milken was indicted on 98 counts including racketeering, insider trading and securities fraud, went to prison for nearly two years and paid $900 million in fines. Giuliani prosecuted and won racketeering convictions against Bronx Democratic leader Stanley Freidman and others in a bribery scheme involving the city’s parking meter violations agency. In 1988, four executives of the defense contractor firm Wedtech pleaded guilty to federal charges filed by Giuliani in illegal payoffs to public officials in exchange for no-bid contracts. The case also ended with the conviction of Congressman Mario Biaggi, a New York Democrat, for extorting payoffs from Wedtech.

His years as a “Mob buster” over, Giuliani entered electoral politics and ran for mayor of New York in 1989. He won the Republican nomination but narrowly lost to Democrat David Dinkins in the general election. Giuliani worked as a private attorney and ran for mayor again in 1993, defeating Dinkins. He won re-election in 1997.

While mayor, Giuliani sought to reduce crime in a city regarded as the nation’s crime capital. He implemented a “broken windows” policy: a no-tolerance stance toward petty crimes such as vandalism and panhandling. His administration is credited with reducing serious crime in New York by 56 percent during his eight years in office, including a 66 percent drop in murders and 70 percent decline in shootings. He ordered police sweeps to rid low-level drug dealers from Lower Manhattan.

In September 2001, in the final three months of his last term, Giuliani became the national face of New York after terrorists flew airliners into the World Trade Center’s iconic Twin Towers, causing both skyscrapers to collapse and killing nearly 3,000 people. Giuliani visited the site, kept residents informed regularly about rescue efforts as hope for the missing dwindled with each day and vowed that the city would rebuild and not be intimidated by terrorists. Time magazine selected him as its Person of the Year for 2001.
 
I care about the fact that the entire story is bogus and full of deliberate misunderstandings.


I object your honour!

poster FLAW47- has not read any of the emails,

nor has he read any of the former 2 business partners legal statements

how can one rule an entire story

"bogus"

and

"deliberate misunderstandings"

im curious

TLAW47

what type of scientifice methodology did you use to frame your opinion?

or did you have wheaties for breakfast this morning?
 
And the Bob Woodward private convos that were sat on for months and released at the start of the campaign trail weren't well timed? Something so critical that put all Americans in danger wasn't important enough to share immediately? You can't have it both ways, you can't swing a stick and then voice discourse when the right swings it back the other way.

Sure, the timing makes it interesting but it doesn't necessarily ruin the credibility of the allegations. There isn't an ounce of you that questions if this was corruption or not? There is evidence the money traveled from the Ukraine to Latvia to Cyprus before landing in his account.....if he wasn't doing anything wrong, why wash the money through 3 countries?

Also, a letter from Latvia to the Ukraine authorities questioning the transactions a month before the investigator was fired by Biden (which he admits), seems timely to me.

LIke I said, it may not influence the election but it doesn't make Biden any less of a sh*t bag.

Whose account? Hunter Biden's? Look, Hunter Biden is POS. There is no doubt. I am sure he did some shady business by using his father's name. You think the Trump kids havent? Look at Ivanka's china trademarks. Look at Trump doing a 180 on Qatar after they rented premium property at his 555 building in San Fran. He went from calling them a terrorist supporting government to welcoming them to the white house.

You also cannot have it both ways. You want investigations? Great. Investigate the Trumps too. Ron Johnson's senate committee just investigated Biden and found zero evidence of wrongdoing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: fcctiger12
And the Bob Woodward private convos that were sat on for months and released at the start of the campaign trail weren't well timed? Something so critical that put all Americans in danger wasn't important enough to share immediately? You can't have it both ways, you can't swing a stick and then voice discourse when the right swings it back the other way.

Sure, the timing makes it interesting but it doesn't necessarily ruin the credibility of the allegations. There isn't an ounce of you that questions if this was corruption or not? There is evidence the money traveled from the Ukraine to Latvia to Cyprus before landing in his account.....if he wasn't doing anything wrong, why wash the money through 3 countries?

Also, a letter from Latvia to the Ukraine authorities questioning the transactions a month before the investigator was fired by Biden (which he admits), seems timely to me.

LIke I said, it may not influence the election but it doesn't make Biden any less of a sh*t bag.

Yet there is an alleged email provided by Tony Bobulinski about the deal with the Chinese energy tycoon, sent by Hunter business associate James Gilliar to Bobulinski and Hunter in May 2017, that suggests a split of equity for their new business venture. In addition for “20 H” (20 percent for Hunter) and “10 Jim” (10 percent for James Biden), it includes the line: “10 held by H for the big guy ?”

Excerpt of a purported May 2017 email sent among Hunter Biden’s business associates. Daily Caller
Bobulinski claims “the big guy” means Joe Biden. But that line notably ends in a question mark. And if accurate, it is unclear whether Joe Biden himself (by then the former vice president) actually knew about it — or whether Hunter was throwing around his name without his knowledge.

Furthermore, there is also a message six days after this one where Hunter says that his “Chairman” gave him “an emphatic NO.” Fox News claims the “chairman” is Joe Biden, which if true would seem to suggest he turned down Hunter’s offer.

In any case, the deal involving Bobulinski ended up falling apart. Subsequently, entities tied to the Chinese energy tycoon did end up send nearly $5 million to an account held by Hunter, as Hunter tried to negotiate a gas deal for the Chinese company in Louisiana — yet, again, there’s no indication this had anything to do with Joe Biden.
 
Yet there is an alleged email provided by Tony Bobulinski about the deal with the Chinese energy tycoon, sent by Hunter business associate James Gilliar to Bobulinski and Hunter in May 2017, that suggests a split of equity for their new business venture. In addition for “20 H” (20 percent for Hunter) and “10 Jim” (10 percent for James Biden), it includes the line: “10 held by H for the big guy ?”

Excerpt of a purported May 2017 email sent among Hunter Biden’s business associates. Daily Caller
Bobulinski claims “the big guy” means Joe Biden. But that line notably ends in a question mark. And if accurate, it is unclear whether Joe Biden himself (by then the former vice president) actually knew about it — or whether Hunter was throwing around his name without his knowledge.

Furthermore, there is also a message six days after this one where Hunter says that his “Chairman” gave him “an emphatic NO.” Fox News claims the “chairman” is Joe Biden, which if true would seem to suggest he turned down Hunter’s offer.

In any case, the deal involving Bobulinski ended up falling apart. Subsequently, entities tied to the Chinese energy tycoon did end up send nearly $5 million to an account held by Hunter, as Hunter tried to negotiate a gas deal for the Chinese company in Louisiana — yet, again, there’s no indication this had anything to do with Joe Biden.

It’s so funny that you know it’s over for Biden.
 
Whose account? Hunter Biden's? Look, Hunter Biden is POS. There is no doubt. I am sure he did some shady business by using his father's name.

Hunter actually referred to it as

"his family brand"

and

there are emails linking a percentage of the shady business investment going directly to joe biden.

there are 2 witnesses who say the same thing.

so emails

and 2 witnesses state joe biden got 10% of the kickback.

its in an email

2 people say its true

how much more you need
 
In any case, the deal involving Bobulinski ended up falling apart.

the reason it fell apart is because hunter was laundering the money

and

when you state the big guy said no-

that right there implicates into the the premediation of the sequence of events

hence

a subpoena will be issued for him when the time comes
 
You assume when watching these debates that everyone else watching has a modicum of intelligence and can dissect what each candidate is saying and make informed decisions based off of that. And then you see shit like this and your jaw literally hits the floor and you worry about the future of our country....

I heard about that and honestly figured that nobody could be stupid enough to not know what "coyotes" are regarding illegal immigration. But lo and behold.......

My God.....
 
  • Like
Reactions: rdavis4898
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT